posted July 03, 2009 12:25 PM         

I agree that astrology is often misused. I, personally, am especially drawn to it when I am frustrated in something I WANT--but at the same time, I think your use of "love" here is a semantic problem. Mostly, I see people use the "soul mate" idea as a kind of proof or reassurance that someone they are infatuated with has some deeper connection with them...and I do think that the closest, most actually loving relationships make both people feel inspired, secure, intuitively unclouded, thrilled, relaxed, and certain...and if you are hungry to have an astrologer tell you "Your asteroid yooyoo is conjunct his Karma in a DW, you were past life soul mates"--while meanwhile the guy lives in a different city and isn't making any efforts to hang out with you in this life--that is a sign that something is off in the relationship and you don't want to admit it.

However, there is a lot to be said for using astrology as a psychological tool to learn to better connect and communicate with people who fascinate, intrigue, and allure you. A lot of the problem is that sometimes people approach the study with fatalism, thoughtless religiosity, narrowness and a lack of intellectual rigor--that is a problem in any study.

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all I am seeing are people giving up real godly love for romance - romance which fades with time - giving up an everlasting love for something that is temporary.

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These two things don't have to be mutually exclusive. In our human lives, we can practice and embody true love, which is not only not about attachment, but is not limited to relationships in the conventional sense.

But we also live in messy, beautiful human bodies--we lust, eat, pee, feel arousal and joy, ride on the waves of thrilling or sad emotions--and that's all okay too. Openhearted living and unconditional love take care of themselves--they are the truth and our natural state--but, as an 8th house person, there is a LOT to be set for exploring all the different edges of human experience...there is a lot to be said for sating lust, whirlwind romances, experiencing the light and dark possibilities of human life.

I turn to astrology more when I'm in search of a fascinating, transforming erotic collision that I'll use in my writing, and sometimes (though I have a regular practice of lovingkindness meditation and that is ALSO something me and my Pisces Jupiter study deeply), I will use a word like "LOVE" to write about someone I'm infatuated with or lust for or something I merely WANT or CRAVE. I think the universe is vast and surprising, and there is room for both. We have the capacity to have experiences at many different levels.

posted July 03, 2009 12:29 PM         

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But we also live in messy, beautiful human bodies--we lust, eat, pee, feel arousal and joy, ride on the waves of thrilling or sad emotions--and that's all okay too. Openhearted living and unconditional love take care of themselves--they are the truth and our natural state--but, as an 8th house person, there is a LOT to be set for exploring all the different edges of human experience...there is a lot to be said for sating lust, whirlwind romances, experiencing the light and dark possibilities of human life.

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posted July 03, 2009 12:38 PM         

When I was a tiny kid, three or four, I made the conscious decision to really live in THIS world...I had a natural side that was sort of mystical and felt I could live my whole life on a different "level", connected with the universe. And I decided I wanted to embrace all of the messiness down here, even if it's harder, even if I didn't easily survive it.

As an 8th house Leo, I love exploring and analyzing infatuations--it doesn't mean I can't also value the deep love that connects us all. And I think that deep love is ALWAYS with us, we are part of it, whatever we are working with in our human lives.

posted July 03, 2009 04:17 PM         

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most of the people I come in contact with who are into astrology generally make a jump from one side of that spectrum to the other with continued study

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I've seen that too.

In actual fact I'm similar to Yin, as in I do not use astrology in my relationships, but I do to look at things in retrospect to just see if there was something that stood out for me.

Yin - I can appreciate that perspective as I am familiar with it.

Lucia23-

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To me, unconditional love is not limited to between a man and a woman, or between humans, even...true love is openheartedness toward the whole world, opening your heart and practicing compassion by loving yourself and all beings.

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Did I give the impression that I limited unconditional love to just humans? If so, I apologize because for being unclear as I do not think that.

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and if you are hungry to have an astrologer tell you "Your asteroid yooyoo is conjunct his Karma in a DW, you were past life soul mates"--while meanwhile the guy lives in a different city and isn't making any efforts to hang out with you in this life--that is a sign that something is off in the relationship and you don't want to admit it.

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An astrologer can be a psychologist can be a friend can be a journal. Sometimes people just want to verbalize their thoughts. Questioning is not always a sign of there being something wrong. Questioning could be a sign of striving for better, preventing possible trouble, etc - and yes, questioning can be because you subconsciously feel something that you have not yet connected with consciously. Questioning can be many things, and so I hear you, but one doesn't need to be unhappy to ask for insight.

For example, I am a questioning type of person; I am always searching. I don't have to be in trouble or unsure first in order to ask for people's perspectives. This is mainly because I know that I make mistakes and a second opinion never hurts.

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quote:all I am seeing are people giving up real godly love for romance - romance which fades with time - giving up an everlasting love for something that is temporary.

These two things don't have to be mutually exclusive. In our human lives, we can practice and embody true love, which is not only not about attachment, but is not limited to relationships in the conventional sense.

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I do not think they are mutually exclusive either. I was merely speaking about what I was seeing at the time.

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But we also live in messy, beautiful human bodies--we lust, eat, pee, feel arousal and joy, ride on the waves of thrilling or sad emotions--and that's all okay too.

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I know. I've got a Scorpio AC which is CNJ Jipter. Also a Mars in Scorpio, Eros there too and other things. Lust, eating, peeing, aousal, thrills and sad emotions are all viewed as natural in my world.

Okay Lucia23...

To me, Love is a combination of all that is, balance. I am sorry if I made it seem as if I preferred the "lighter side" of the coin rather than it's "dark side." I am going to reread my post and see where I might have given that impression. Thank you for making me aware that my tone was biased as I didn't notice.

Happy Weekend and great responses all.

posted July 03, 2009 04:22 PM         

I use astrology for all the reasons for which astrology can be used.

I sometimes abuse it. ( I can be obsessive)

I sometimes don't.

posted July 03, 2009 08:56 PM         

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which means a soulmate bond can be developed by time, just like a soulmate bond can end by time.

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posted July 03, 2009 09:39 PM         

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But so what if astrology tells us if someone is our soulmate or not? What truly matters is how we truly feel in the real life.

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Well, exactly...I think many people turn to astrology to find out how the OTHER person feels in real life!

And mostly, to rationalize and turn the brutal, heartbreaking feeling of unconsummated, unrequited, or Just Not Working infatuation into something that sounds very grand--"he's married to someone else, but we both feel a powerful love"--"we were married in a past life"--"he inexplicably doesn't even want to see me, and that's because the incredible intensity of our bond scares him."

I'm a very questioning person too, and I agree that questioning/analyzing is not an automatic sign of trouble in a connection...what I meant was that if someone is ONLY using the astrology to validate the idea that not-that-great-in-real-life connection they're obsessed with is a fated, Soul Connection...when they aren't interested in using astrology's many tools to probe into the deep dynamics of their self or their real-life relationship, but rather they just want to list a bunch of aspects ("my yooyoo exactly conjunct his Vertex") and have someone say, "Well, ObsessiveAstroBuff, that's a Karmic Sign that you have a Soul Mate relationship and deep mutual love!"

They often do not want to connect deeper astrological revelations to the real-life relationship dynamics in order to problem-solve, they just want the validation.

posted July 03, 2009 10:02 PM         

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I'm a very questioning person too, and I agree that questioning/analyzing is not an automatic sign of trouble in a connection...what I meant was that if someone is ONLY using the astrology to validate the idea that not-that-great-in-real-life connection they're obsessed with is a fated, Soul Connection...when they aren't interested in using astrology's many tools to probe into the deep dynamics of their self or their real-life relationship, but rather they just want to list a bunch of aspects ("my yooyoo exactly conjunct his Vertex") and have someone say, "Well, ObsessiveAstroBuff, that's a Karmic Sign that you have a Soul Mate relationship and deep mutual love!"

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I totally understand now. Thanks for clarifying and that is true.

posted July 03, 2009 11:44 PM         

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I kind of feel like all mates are soul mates- I wouldn't invite a person into my intimate life without feeling a "deeper than usual" connection with them.

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In my belief system, all of us living creatures on earth are soul mates! Each connection/collision between two people is profound and unique, and can have a sort of beautiful butterfly effect, changing the world in unpredictable ways.

But yes, everyone I really share myself with openly is someone I value deeply at the soul level--friends, lovers--

posted July 04, 2009 10:20 AM         

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I obsess in this way...I mean I'm an 8th house Leo with a 7th house Cancer Moon! When there's not a lot of evidence that I am desired by the people I want to be desired by in real life, I look for some sort of reassurance elsewhere, which is really silly, and if I had more courage or better ideas for real life, maybe I would drop it. It isn't making me feel any better.

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posted July 04, 2009 12:57 PM         

I'm pretty bold/Leonine about my career, creative life, friendships, travel and adventure, research...I'm either brave or at least plucky, I keep a sense of humor.