posted July 31, 2008 03:21 PM         

Its really not as black and white as anyone of us would like to make it.

26Taurus is no saint, and has, on several occassions, returned my diplomacy with venom of her own.

In spite of that, and in spite of some unfair things she has said about me in this thread,
I've apologized, and, as I see it, continuing to heap scorn on me, juni, is both tasteless and absurd.

Nor am I some devil, endlessly indulging in "a bottomless pit of venomous attacks".

I'm someone who feels things very deeply and expresses himself very forcefully; that goes for both the good and bad things I feel and express.

When you incarnate as a Scorpio with a 1st house Moon and a ton of fire and Uranian energy, maybe then you will understand what I deal with.

In the meantime, enjoy your ivory tower of Aquarian/Virgoan detachment.

I think you make a good point, though, about deleting the post, or the thread, and I'll do that.

I'll delete my posts, and, if a mod wants to delete the thread they can do so with my blessing.

posted July 31, 2008 03:36 PM         

Our Dealings with Our Friends

Friendship as the average person understands it is perhaps little more than acquaintance; but in reality it is more sacred than any other connection in the world. To a sincere person, entering into friendship is like entering the gates of heaven; and a visit to his friend is a pilgrimage to a true loving friend.

When, in friendship, a thought arises, 'I will love you as you love me', or, 'I will do to you as you do to me', this takes away all the virtue of the friendship, because it is a commercial attitude, prevalent everywhere in the commercial world: everything is done for a return, and measure is given for measure. Friendship should be the contrary pole to the practical side of life; for when a person is tired by the selfish surroundings of the world he feels inclined to take refuge in the love and kindness of a sympathetic friend. But if there is a question of selfishness in friendship, where can a soul go who is tired and annoyed with the selfish surroundings of the world?

Friendship is just like recreation after the toil of the day. One can speak or be with someone who is different from all others in life. But difficulty arises because everyone thinks that his friend ought to prove worthy of his ideal, and this in the end disappoints him. For the law of beneficence teaches this: that goodness is worth while which can withstand even badness; that kindness is valuable which can withstand tyranny. Every soul is not ready to follow this ideal, and it depends to what extent one is strong enough to withstand. By having an ideal and keeping it before him, a person develops sooner or later into that ideal.

A friendship used to carry out one's aims and objects in life through the love and kindness of a friend is only business. The unselfish friend is the pure one, and it is such a friendship that will last; but a selfish friendship will vanish. For the selfish friend will create selfishness in the heart of his friend, and the unselfish friend will create unselfishness in the heart of his friend.

Everyone gets, sooner or later, what he gives, for the heart knows the condition of the heart. Therefore there is no better principle than wishing good to the friend, speaking good of the friend, doing good to the friend, with all kindness and love; having no thought for one moment of the friend's deserving our goodness, kindness, or love.

Hazrat Inayat Khan

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted July 31, 2008 04:18 PM         

So I vote for door #3 - the ebb and flow. A little time spent in the marketplace shopping around for new ideas and mirrors, and a little time in the monastary sorting through and contemplating the day's adventures.

You know, from a philosophical and literary standpoint, it was an admirable essay, HSC. It's a shame that sharing a few pleasant philosophical musings wasn't your true intent.

posted July 31, 2008 04:23 PM         

Extremely well said. You impress me.

I would only suggest that we may never know my "true intent".

We can begin something with the purest intentions, but the unconscious has unfinished business of its own.

posted July 31, 2008 08:42 PM         

HSC,

I am not a "saint"
nor am I a "sinner"

and neither are you.

I'm just trying my best to live by my truth; the best I know how, like everyone else. I also stumble, fall and pick myself up again. Whether you want to see it that way or not.

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."

-- Plato

I was looking for a particular quote I vaugely remember on upsetting or disturbing your brother's or sister's peace. If I find it, I will post it.

here are some others:

"May you move all of your mountains, and disturb the peace by adding to it."
Carol Horos

"Be so strong that nothing can disturb your peace of mind. Talk health, happiness, and prosperity to every person you meet. Make all your friends feel there is something special in them. Look at the sunny side of everything. Think only of the best, work only for the best, and expect only the best. Be as enthusiastic about the success of others as you are about your own. Forget the mistakes of the past and press on to the greater achievements of the future. Give everyone a smile. Spend so much time improving yourself that you have no time left to criticize others. Be too big for worry and too noble for anger. "
Christian D. Larsen

posted July 31, 2008 09:01 PM         

We all fall, we all pick ourselves up. It's beautiful.

Still, I've never heard you apologize, or accept an apology.

I see you praise juni for her meanspirited words, and ignore my apology.

Personally, I think there's something fishy about that.

But I wish you well.

posted July 31, 2008 09:07 PM         

We all attract every single person into our lives to learn lessons from and for other various reasons.

So please accept my sincere Thank you instead.

Maybe you don't understand, but that's all I can say. I'm glad you brough that up.

I don't believe in "apologies". Only Thanks.

posted July 31, 2008 09:14 PM         

So dont say I dont give or accept them.

posted July 31, 2008 09:17 PM         

But, if you dont believe in apologies,
I dont see how you can believe in thanks, either.

Maybe you dont understand that, but I'm glad you brought it up.

See, we can play this superiority game all week.

Bottom line:
You praised juni's meanspirited words, and ignored my apology.

Your "true friends" can do no wrong, your "enemies" can do no right.

It's fishy. And it stinks.

posted July 31, 2008 09:18 PM         

quote:

---

I'm sorry you let me affect you in certain ways that I didnt intend.

---

Right.

Talk about a backhanded "apology".

On that note:

posted July 31, 2008 09:25 PM         

quote:

---

I see you praise juni for her meanspirited words, and ignore my apology.

---

Listen, pal.

You started this thread with quite a few mean spirited words about me, remember? People were praising you for it. How is that any different? Little did they know what you were really doing in the guise of an innocent "essay".

Oh what? Because you did so without coming right out and saying it to someone's face or using their name, you are somehow better?

posted July 31, 2008 09:29 PM         

Which includes a lot of meanspirited judgements.

And you ignored my sincere apologies.

My essay was not meant to hurt you, but to express my perspective,
and, hopefully, provide you with a little insight into your own motives.

If I was mistaken, my apologies.

If all it did was upset you, my condolences.

I had hoped you might learn something.

I certainly did.

posted July 31, 2008 09:33 PM         

quote:

---

But, if you dont believe in apologies,
I dont see how you can believe in thanks, either.

---

Of course you dont. But give it some time and patience and you will. If you try.

quote:

---

See, we can play this superiority game all week.

---

I dont want to play for a week or even a second with you, HSC. Notice I am avoiding this place altogether lately? But I wasnt just going to let this go. Let you go on your sneaky little tirade without sticking up for what I know to be true. I'd like to end it. But I think because you know that you were a complete a--hole here, you are now going to try and get in as many jabs as you can as this thread gasps for it's last dying breaths.

In certain words you say:

"See everyone! Here she goes! She doesnt give or even accept apologies. Look! Look! Did you see that last post? Don't you see how rotten and unforgiving she is? I told you."

It's not going to work HSC.

Let it go now.

posted July 31, 2008 09:35 PM         

quote:

---

I praised her for her kind words and extended friendship towards me. For sticking up for a fellow human being she saw getting kicked. Don't twist it up.

---

You twisted it up yourself:

quote:

---

People were praising you for it. How is that any different?

---

So, is this your position?

That it is no different?

You praised her meanspirited words knowingly.

And her words were knowingly offensive and judgmental,
with no attempt to avoid publicly blaming you personally.

I, at least, tried to avoid naming names.

And I didnt just hurl judgements.

I offered a well thought-out philosophical and psychological argument.

So, yes, there is a difference in what I wrote,
and in the praise I received for what I wrote.

posted July 31, 2008 09:36 PM         

___________________________________________

quote:

---

I had hoped you might learn something.

---

I did, HSC. A lot.

If you can honestly say the same....

Then great.

posted July 31, 2008 09:38 PM         

We arent as different as you think.

Not by a long shot.

posted July 31, 2008 09:39 PM         

quote:

---

You praised her for "everything else you wrote".

---

What I meant was everything else she POSTED. Sorry that wasnt clear. Did you see everything else she posted for us? One was from Hazrat Inayat Khan. Did you read it?

posted July 31, 2008 09:43 PM         

Its about calling it as I see it.

You can keep your backhanded apologies.

And if you praise folly, I'll call you on that too.

That's all there is to it.

Now walk away with your nose in the air.

posted July 31, 2008 09:44 PM         

including this:

quote:

---

This is about as disgraceful and meanspirited as you can get HSC...

IF you are truely sorry and see the mean bone you are stabbing with, you would DELETE this subjective, judgemental and downright distasteful diatribe.

This is another violation of trust of those who have confided in you and trusted you. This is simply history repeating it`s self ... when HSC, will you Learn ????

In that vein, Has your behaviour become a bottomless pit of venonous attacks on those who don`t mollycoddle your "wisdom" or see you in the same way you see yourself?

---

So, its all beautiful when she schools me personally in highly volatile language.

But if I school you impersonally in highly philosophical language, I'm an a--hole.

Got it. You go girl!

posted July 31, 2008 09:57 PM         

I wish you happiness, HSC.

posted July 31, 2008 10:12 PM         

HSC, you know I've always been a fan, but for the record I want to publicly say that I HAD NO CLUE what this was really all about. I thought I was engaging in a good bit of literary debate with AG.

26T, I'm sure it goes without saying that NOTHING I wrote had anything to do with you because I knew nothing about the reality of the sitation.

Steve, dear-- I'm not sure what you meant when you replied to my post about this involving more than I was aware of with "it always does." I don't know if you meant that there are always hidden undertones to what you write or that I'm just always clueless. I will be offended if it is the latter.

This isn't about me and my little piece of square footage is pretty much irrelevant, but I wanted to make sure there was no confusion about my intentions.

posted July 31, 2008 10:17 PM         

No, I didnt mean anything like that.

I meant that everything always involves more than we are aware of.

That's all.

You've always been a model citizen, in my opinion.

posted July 31, 2008 10:24 PM         

We are under some eclipse energy as well...so that is making things even more crazy, unstable and distorted. It's definitely time to say goodbye.