posted October 15, 2009 09:42 PM         

For those who don't know, I have Venus in Scorpio in the 8th house, and the 8th house also contains Pluto and Mercury, which are conjunct (in Libra). I would consider myself a pretty Plutonic person. This is significant because I've just looked at the synastry between me and this ex, and it explains so much. For example, although I knew he was a Scorpio, I never bothered to do his chart while we were "involved", so I didn't notice that he has Sun, ASC, AND Pluto in Scorpio. His Sun and Pluto are conjunct (2). His Venus is in 0 Sagittarius and had he been born a day earlier, it would have been in Scorpio like mine. He is what I would consider an "ultra-Scorpio." We share a (me)Venus/Pluto(him) conjunction, and a double whammy Moon/Pluto opposition, etc. in synastry.

In the interest of being as brief as possible I'll use a creative format to tell the story--it'll be like a conversation. In the end, I'll need some opinions. Here is the story of us...

3 YEARS AGO (while interacting online):

Me: You have a sexy voice.
Scorpio: So do you. Send me a pic.
Me: Ok (sends pic)
Scorpio: You're gorgeous. Let's chat on IM.
Me: Ok, but you need to send me a pic too(starts chatting)
Scorpio: (sends pic) Ok. Enough chatting. Let's talk on the phone. Can I call you?
Me: Sure! (commence talking on phone)

[several weeks later, after talking on phone daily for hours each day]

Scorpio: We belong together. We only live an hour apart, we can do this. We need to move this to the physical.
Me: I agree.
Scorpio: Let's go out next weekend.
Me: Ok.

[in the meantime, I will be in his town on business before then, and he told me where he works, so I decide to call him as I drive near his work as a surprise]

Me: Hey, guess what? I'm in town. Actually, I'm only a few blocks from your job. Want to meet?
Him: What? What kind of stalker crap is that? No, I don't want to meet!
Me: What? I'm not stalking you! Jerk!
Him: Yes you are!
Me: Screw you! (hangs up)

[me being me, I'm completely devastated by this turn of events, feel completely humiliated and rejected, and decide to get "revenge"...]

(a few days later online)

Me (to Scorpio's good buddy): Hey, I think you're kind of cute...
Buddy: Really? So are you...

(a few months later)

Buddy (to Scorpio): Hey, is it ok if I date Starr?
Scorpio: I don't care.
Scorpio (to me): Hey, I know we haven't talked for awhile, but I see you are dating my friend...YOU BETRAYED ME!
Me: Yep. I love him (lie). How do you like me now? AND YOU BETRAYED ME FIRST!
Scorpio: I hope you two are very happy together (lie).

ONE YEAR LATER:

Buddy/Now My Boyfriend (to me): Hey, let's move in together.
Me: Ummmm, ok.
Boyfriend: By the way, I ran into Scorpio the other day, he asked about you
Me: Really? (excited, heart pounding)
Me: (logs into IM program that she only ever used to talk to Scorpio)
Me: Hey Scorpio
Scorpio: Hey Starr. Ummm, I have something to ask you.
Me: Yes?
Scorpio: Why did you decide to start dating my friend?
Me: I only started dating him to hurt you silly.
Scorpio: I knew it! Guess what? I never stopped wanting you. And now your dumb self has decided to move in with the guy. Don't you think you took this revenge bit a little too far?
Me: Probably...
Scorpio: All will be forgiven if you break up with him. You have 2 weeks.
Me: But we already live together!
Scorpio: I don't care. I want you. You want me. You have 2 weeks...

(2 weeks later)

Scorpio: Did you break up with him yet?
Me: Ummmm, well it's complicated...
Scorpio: Complicated? No, you're a coward. I hate you. YOU'RE DEAD TO ME!
Me: YOU'RE DEAD TO ME TOO!

ONE YEAR LATER AGAIN:

Me: (randomly IMs Scorpio one day) My life sucks. I'm miserable. I can't believe I'm in a relationship with someone I don't love because I wanted to get revenge on you.
Scorpio: Yep. Your life sucks. You deserve to be unhappy because you're too cowardly to break up with someone that you're miserable with. Oh and by the way, I have a new girlfriend. We're in love.
Me: (cries)
Scorpio: Stop it. I hate it when you get like this. Oh, and don't bother me anymore.
Me: FINE! YOU'RE DEAD TO ME (again)!

SIX MONTHS AGO:

Me (to Boyfriend): I want to break up. I'm sorry. I don't love you like I should.
Boyfriend: This has something to do with Scorpio, doesn't it? He told me how you harassed him for the last 2 1/2 years.
Me: WHAT? (enraged) I did not!
Boyfriend: Enough about Scorpio, let's fix us.
Me: There's no fixing it. I want out.

(Starr & Boyfriend break up, Starr is so disgusted that Scorpio "betrayed" her innermost feelings and ratted her out to Boyfriend that she vows that if she ever hears from him again, he REALLY IS dead to her now, forever)

THREE MONTHS AGO:

Scorpio: (tries to friend Starr on Facebook)
Me: (ignores friend request and blocks Scorpio on Facebook)
Scorpio: (randomly IMs me one day to probe)So, you're too good to talk to me now?
Me: There's nothing to talk about. I hate you! (blocks Scorpio on IM)

Scorpio: (posts random messages in places he knows Starr can see about how he wishes someone would just talk to him)

TWO DAYS AGO:

Starr hears a song on the radio that reminds her of Scorpio. She checks a few places and sees that his status message still says he wishes someone would talk to him.

LAST NIGHT:

Me: (unblocks Scorpio and IMs him offline) You must have that problem a lot.
Scorpio: (mysteriously comes online) What problem?
Me: People not talking to you.
Scorpio: Not really. I haven't been on this chat interface for awhile. That was about you by the way...
Me: I figured. I don't talk to you because (ex) Boyfriend told me all the crap you said about me.
Scorpio: Well, you stopped talking to me and started dating my friend, I had to get my punches in where I could...but hey, I've got to go to work. Maybe we can talk later...
Me: Maybe...

THE END (of the story)

Sorry, that was long. But you get it. Pretty sick and twisted, huh? Especially since I have never met Scorpio in person! Now keep in mind that I am dating someone else who I am crazy about and have no interest in rekindling anything with Scorpio, but...when I looked at our synastry today, this crazy 3 year saga suddenly all made sense to me.

How can two people be that crazy and obsessed with each other over such a long period of time without ever meeting? Sure, there was deep emotional intimacy and intrigue with each other but still...never physical. I can't help but wonder how that dynamic would play in person.

Thoughts? Will post the synastry in a bit.

posted October 15, 2009 09:57 PM         

Anyway...

posted October 15, 2009 10:07 PM         

LOL. Yes, I can look back on it in hindsight and laugh, but it really was one of the most crazy and painful periods of my life (I should check my transits).

And no, Scorpio is single. I don't think that relationship lasted a hot second.

Ummm, I'm not sure I "love" him but he has and probably always will intrigue me. The intensity surrounding our interactions is addictive. And it feels really compulsive. Ugh. Very unhealthy, I'm sure.

posted October 15, 2009 10:29 PM         

Synastric factors I believe are contributing:

Sun/Venus
DW Moon/Pluto
DW Mars/Pluto
Venus conj Pluto
Sun opposition Moon
Mars/Lilith
Venus/Lilith
IC/MC axis exact conjunct ASC/DSC axis

And that's without even considering the asteroids.

EDIT: Synastry chart replaced with no asteroids.

posted October 16, 2009 02:08 AM         

Funnily, he still wants me back. A few months after that incident, he proposed. I told him to take go to hell. It made me angry and hurt me too.

Moving on...

That chart has those angles in conjunction. Hmmm... So, this chart is the third that I have seen of this kind, i.e. AC/IC MC/DC. Hmmm... There are plenty of asteroid/angle conjunctions but I would have liked to see some planets up in there instead.

Mars/BML is interesting. Don't ask me why because I don't know.

posted October 16, 2009 03:48 AM         

The theory.

Now the question would be: why would IC/AC be incompatible? Answer... Think Aries (AC or first house) and Cancer (IC or 4th House), Mars and Moon.

This theory works with Placidus only, I think.

Let's look at these angles with that energy interplay and we might actually see why this combo is touchy. These energies are essentially "square" as in not harmonious. If it was IC/MC we'd have an opposite energy interplay, which can be 'opposites attract' of Cancer/Capricorn energies. If it was IC/DC we'd have Cancer/Libra energy interplay, which is another problem. I choose opposite over a square any day! Another possibly good combo along with opposing is conjunct so IC/IC would be better than IC/AC.

To add on your theory...

I still think that the IC person has a tougher time with this aspect than the AC person because it seems as though the IC person is reactive to the AC, and the AC is more aggressive/proactive (or even insensitive through self-involvement), so to speak...

how do I explain this?

If the IC is your most intimate part of self, AC being that which defines the self, then it is like the IC person is almost at the will of the AC person. The AC person controls the direction of the relationship, and probably does so carelessly even though it might be unintentionally so. If it is only the angles we are considering, I'd theorize that the IC person is the one who is touched intimately more than the AC person. The AC person merely gets the opportunity to define itself relative to the relationship, e.g. IC person helps AC person refine his/her identity through their experiences together. AC person can postpone things, so to speak as it doesn't change the self. IC person though is just utterly and completely affected whether they choose or not because the AC person's self simply penetrates into IC person's most intimate parts, i.e. IC's fantasies, desires, hopes, dreams, etc.

Think of an object(IC/Moon) and heat (AC/Mars). When heat energy goes through an object, the object absorbs it, and whilst doing so, the object changes form by expanding. When the heat has gone through the object, the object shrinks and sometimes this shrinking can cause cracks to the object. The heat energy merely went through the object by being absorbed and then radiated out. The energy remains (although it can change too, the heat energy usually just passes through things). The object changes. It was the medium for the heat energy to experience itself, and the object is usually left unlike it was originally.

So, on that note, these angles could be the reason why they cause trouble. IC is too sensitive, and AC is... a force going through... Of course I am just isolating the AC/IC. There might be other aspects that make AC person the sensitive one.

edit: Now, speaking of MC/DC... these are also incompatible. MC (Capricorn/Saturn) DC (Libra/Venus). More trouble.

posted October 16, 2009 06:30 AM         

quote:

---

it may be that the IC and AC are very very sensitive points in a chart, so personal, so that people get....weird

---

Diana, I think you and Unmoved might be on to something. The similarities between the 3 relationships that share this aspect has to be more than a bit of coincidence?

Composite added.

posted October 16, 2009 05:40 PM         

Wow, that was a really good inference that you wrote! I can't even add anything to that. It would be good to see what other people's experiences are with this synastry, besides ours.

I feel like the AC person is actually the more touchy one and freaks out at stupid things more than the IC person. If you look at the stories, you can kind of see that the IC person just sets a boundary, but the AC person takes it as a personal affront and totally blows it out of proportion, like it's a threat to their identity. They get very egotistical about whatever is said and then get vindictive and crawl into a shell like a crab (cancer) whereas the IC person gets assertive (mars 1st house). I think some transfering is going on here. hmmm, i don't really know. I would like to hear more accounts.

Starr,

posted October 16, 2009 06:10 PM         

I think the AC person freaks out and acts out, but, like you said, they don't say anything. They either internalize it completely, or tell other people, or act passive-aggressive. Total cancer reactions.

posted October 16, 2009 07:07 PM         

Basically, I am not sure about this:

quote:

---

I like(d) him a lot, a lot, but I can take him or leave him, really.

---

You liked someone a lot last month, and then now it is "I can take him or leave him..."? Come now! Repressing and expressing probably take the same amount of effort, but they just move in opposing directions and reap different results, of course. There is no glory in any reaction to hurt. It is what it is. We just react in anyway that serves us. I hope that your reaction to this situation serves you now and long term.

I am not sure if you realize how hurt and gutted you sound, regardless of the bravery "Aries" reaction. {{{{hugs}}}} It does sound like you're convincing yourself more than anyone else with your words, which is OK. Do whatever you need to do to feel better, without judgment of your feelings though. Please don't think some like 'This is a good (better or best) reaction to how I feel because other ways are "pathetic" or whatever. No value judgments, regardless of what the world says.

So, he has been passive aggressive, is he?
Is he Cancer?

Anyway, Diana. There is no shame in any emotion, at least that's how it is in my world. You don't have to make him dispensable if he isn't yet, just because he has disappointed you. If he is dispensable though, then he is. There doesn't have to be a better guy in the future, per se, instead let it be a different one (better is comparison, not neutral)

After many hurts from all of life's sh*tty experiences, I have chosen this way of reaction, the emotional type, because it is time and energy sufficient for me. I have become more resilient and less damaged because of allowing myself to "freak out". It is not because I can not control my emotions, regardless of my Moon. It was a choice I made recently in my life, and it has been working for me. I guess, I begun living my NN (Cancer).

I can't say I know how you feel because I have never been you, but I know how to choose to be tough in order to get by because it is easier and less painful generally. It's also more approved of to be "brave" but I have also found that the harder things to do, like being vulnerable, also take a lot of bravery.

Anyway, I have lots of love for you Diana. I seriously wouldn't waste my time writing all of this if I didn't care. I hope you didn't take any of my words wrong. I am not criticizing your way. I just hoped that, if in case you didn't know that you might be hurting a lot, and that your words are opposed to that hurt, that I could highlight it, because that might help in making a speedy recovery, i.e. being aware and acknowledging it.

Actually, I dunno. Feel better!!

posted October 16, 2009 07:39 PM         

I should actually be mad, but I am not. I hope he's doing ok.

I don't know if he's being passive aggressive. I don't know what's going on. I actually feel like he's playing games with me, and that just turns me to ice, frankly. I don't have time for that crap and it's a HUGE turnoff to me. It makes me stop liking someone. So, yeah, I may sound like I am acting a certain way, but this is really how I feel. If you go back to the tarot reading, MVM says that he can go through a lot of emotions and emerge unscathed, like a chameleon and I say I am like that. That's what happened here. I went through a gamut of feelings and now I feel this way, and they really didn't affect me.

He's not a cancer, he's a pisces.

posted October 16, 2009 08:06 PM         

Besides, I'm in for a feeling fest myself soon so hopefully you will return the favor whenever I'm ready to let it all out.

Diana, I understand how you are feeling. I have no Aquarius in me whatsoever but I get that way too--too much game playing is a huge turnoff. Once I start feeling frustrated, I've got one foot out the door.

posted October 16, 2009 08:10 PM         

I feel like you don't want to believe I feel this way because you are afraid he will feel this way.

Starr,

The mars square uranus looks like it could be at work here. Making you two irrational in your emotions and anger. It would also make you very attracted to one another.

Surprised you don't have more pluto aspects.

posted October 16, 2009 08:25 PM         

I have my IM set to list what song I'm currently listening to, and I know he's paying attention because when I first logged on he was inactive and now he's active again. I feel like it's up to him to respond to my "hey" since I was the last one that said something.

posted October 16, 2009 08:35 PM         

quote:

---

Unmoved,

I feel like you don't want to believe I feel this way because you are afraid he will feel this way.

---

Hmmm? Pardon, me?

*rereads the statement*

Hmmm... I see what you mean. Very insightful. My guy, right? You're saying that I am afraid that he will feel detached toward me?

Well, you know. You could be onto something I wasn't yet aware of. Initially I just found it incredible how you can turn off so quickly to something that was so life changing and incredible. The thing is, i seldom fall in love, and when I do it lasts a while, regardless of the circumstances. So, I just couldn't fathom how you could shut down do quickly about something that was more than a crush.

But, it could also be what you say as well. Actually, I am pretty sure that he has, or had, given up on me if he ever loved/liked me. I am a pessimist, a pessimist with Jupiter conj Ac, so I give the visage of positivity but it is never so internally. But that doesn't stop me, even if odds are low. So, I initiated contact for the purpose of telling him that I loved him, from a place of "he doesn't love me anymore".

With that said, the heart can't help but hope, dream, wish and try for more than that. If you remember, I was more gutted that I hurt him, more than anything. Of course, he broke my heart too, but...

posted October 16, 2009 08:38 PM         

quote:

---

I feel like it's up to him to respond to my "hey" since I was the last one that said something.

---

Good luck.

I know in my situation that I am ALWAYS the first to say hello, and he is the first to say goodbye.