posted September 18, 2013 07:16 AM            

quote:

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pretty often.

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Often?
But where do you meet them?

I meet and see so many on a daily basis who are not like this.
Where are all these nasty men hiding?
Is it possible you are seeing things from a skewed perspective because you are expecting them to be jerks?

I honestly don't know what to think about this.
Because on a daily basis - there are so many men all around - who are not like this -- At my university, at work, at the grocery store, walking down the street playing with their kids, many of my male teachers, many family members (old and young)... SO many perfectly typical run-of-the-mill guys, who just wake up in the morning have a shower, brush their teeth - have breakfast go to work - care for their friends and fam and are basically "average".. not jerks and not saints.

They would never play such Sex&the City style games.
They are not that "posh" O_O... The average person is not that posh.

posted September 18, 2013 09:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
@Sugarflapjacks (They sound delicious by the way)

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posted September 18, 2013 01:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Hera:
Unfortunately, Odette, I did come across this type of men, and pretty often. Not all the men I met or have dated were like that, but indeed, MANY were. I suppose we're all writing what we know from experience.

I don't intend to support this kind of immature behavior and most likely will leave once the games start. I am in a place in my life where that sort of stuff just does not belong anymore.

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you have a point hera.
i dont know about odette's experiences or whether she has personally dated all of those perfectly mature men she mentions...since, how people look from an outside perspective is very different from the way they behave with friends or dates...
regardless, this type of behavior seems to have become far more pervasive, and i think it is worse among young people....and now, even people in the 40s and 50s seem to be copying this...as in, humanity is regressing when it comes to dating, esp. men...
hence, there are more books like think like a man as a way to counter/understand this weird behavioral dating pattern of some men...
i will say that this playing dating game-push pull seems to be more common in western society, esp. in the usa...
so, you may want to try a foreigner?

posted September 18, 2013 04:31 PM            

I only have relationships with people I know beforehand.. so we already hang out or study or work together months before things get romantic.
I am never interested in perfect strangers, so I've never up and dated someone I only just met, or used a dating site etc.
I have Cap Moon and Mars so I do my homework before I get close to someone and I get to know them gradually.

Hikoro - anyone who is so focused on dating games - does not have a life - hobbies, a career, something they are passionate about and strive for. There is nothing beautiful in their life and I guess they have nothing better to do with themselves. But this is not a majority of men. Actually most are very straight forward and don't even read this dating stuff, let alone act it out.
There is a segment that do & they prolly hang around on dating sites.

posted September 18, 2013 05:17 PM            

Maybe one day if our paths ever cross. =)

quote:

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Orginally posted bv SugarFlapJacks:
No. I didn't tell him about my other plans. Yes, that could have made an impact, but honestly, Swift, this is a grown man of almost 60. He is old school enough and dated enough women, watched enough chick flicks, hung out with enough friend-girls to KNOW that you don't call woman up (after not talking to her for over a week after a beautiful evening), an HOUR before you want to meet her and invite her somewheres and expect her to accept. Not if you respect her, right? Come on! I hadn't heard from him all week except for a 5 word text, so why wouldn't he expect I had plans. A man calls a woman on an afternoon and wants to spend time with her. Seems to me, if he were really into her, he would have asked if she were available on such short notice and mention the fact that he hadn't been in touch with her all week. I asked him about his "MIA", and he mumbled something which I didn't press the issue and let it drop. My bad. I guess I should have been firm about getting an answer and telling him I had other plans and he should have called me a day or so prior to set something up.

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Okay, fair enough.
It seems to me that maybe you may be making some assumptions about a grown man of 60 and his dating repertoire. I must admit, I think it's a split on whether you press about the MIA or not. Sometimes it can come off as overbearing or intruding, but genuinely I think you have every right to want to know WTH is up.

quote:

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Originally posted by SugarFlapJacks:
Yes, several times. After the first date, we were to get together the following day. I couldn't because I had to work. He knew this because we had made plans to meet up on Saturday, but he wanted to see me that evening (he was open to wait until Saturday, but I did want to see him as well (our first face-to-face), so I told him I changed my plans to work on Saturday instead of Friday so that I could meet up with him that evening.
So on Saturday, he wants to get together but I tell him I have to work, dont you remember? I changed my plans of working on Friday so that we could be meet up instead of waiting until Saturday. He asked me if I wanted to come to his place or he come to mine since I was working instead of going to a concert (he'd changed his mind about the concert). I respectfully declined. No, I didn't tell him why I didn't want to come to his house, but we had only just MET the night before. Not only will I not invite him to MY house, I am definitely NOT coming to HIS. What kind of man asks a woman to his house after he only just met her????

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That is a lot of re-arranging. Sounds like he doesn't take the time or thought to remember your schedule, what you can and cannot do, and the times you have made available for him. I don't know what kind of man asks a Woman to his on/after the first date. I suppose the stereotype is; "one who expects to get some action", but I honestly don't know. I can't say anything without knowing him, what his intentions are etc.

quote:

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Originally posted by SugarFlapJacks:
You are right, maybe I should have said something like this. But my decline to his invitation was done with the utmost sincerity and sensitivity, considering his feelings, and I thought he would understand. This is not a kid, I'm talking to, it's a grown man. I just felt he should know better and understand why a woman wouldn't want to come to his place.[b]

Just because someone is 60 years old doesn't mean they are either mature, or experienced when it comes to relationships. I understand you did it with the utmost sincerity and sensitivity. Looking at it from another point of view, he may have been confused, and maybe a little hurt that you turned his offer down, despite it being inappropriate for you.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SugarFlapJacks:
[b]Whether she is comfortable or not, what would be your reasoning for inviting her to your place when you ONLY just met her???

I'm not sure what you meant. Let me clarify, I would probably never ask a woman back to my place on the first date, I would wait a few dates until she either let me know subtly or overtly that she wanted me to go to hers or come to mine. I'm more than happy to walk her home.

[QUOTE]Orginally posted by SugarFlapJacks:
This is good. I didn't think of this. Perhaps he was feeling this way. But how am I to know that? Couldn't he have said, "I'd really like to see you again. But I've run out of ideas. What would you like to do?"

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Yes, he definitely could have said that. I suppose this links back to your analysis of him being a kid.

quote:

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Originally posted by SugarFlapJacks:
Both of our intentions was that we are looking for a long-term meaningful relationship. True, I have no idea of what his previous relationships were like. I have no regrets about mine, seriously. They didn't work out and I was sad, but you learn to live with it and look forward to finding lasting love in days to come.

It's always tough to figure out intentions, and people of both sexes are not above mis-representing themselves to get what they want. Not that I am saying is what happened here, because again I am not a participant in this.

That is a really wonderful and admirable attitude to take into dating and relationships.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SugarFlapJacks:
This could be true as well. I was very busy over the last few weeks, but I told him that I was going to be busy with work back in August. I assured him that it is not always like this for me, but it could not be helped and I appreciated his understanding. He told me he understood, more than once. Plus, the fact that there wasn't a day that went by that we weren't communicating. Then I wanted to show him that I appreciated his interest still in me and would put work aside to see him, that was the evening of our first date. However, I had to get back to work the following day and catch up what I missed. He told me that he would love to stay in constant communication with me. However, after our first date, the following week, he was so distant and seemingly acting so busy, that he couldn't communicate at all. At LEAST, I would take time out during the day to send lengthy emails or talk over the phone for an hour or so to him. However, I got NOTHING the week after our date and when I texted him, he said he was very busy and that was pretty much it. When I saw him on Saturday, I asked him about his "busy" week, and he was very non-committal in his answer. I don't even remember what he said as it was so brief and blase

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Hmmm, for me that sounds alarm bells. If he does not explain or has no interest in explaining how his week has been. Whether it links to depression, dis-interest in connection with you on a personal level, or maybe he just isn't a talkative person. *Shrug*

quote:

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Originally posted by SugarFlapJacks:
No, this is great! I appreciated his concern and have told/thanked him several times. I'm used to my dates doing this! (I'm also used to doors being opened and chairs being pulled out. He told me alot of women compliment him on this because whoever they have dated did not do this for them. I told him, every man I been involved with or dated has done this for me. (so I will wait at the door or stand at the table until these things are done for me. I've even trained my kids to do this!))

However, on the second date on Sat. he did not call. He texted me. Texted me twice, but didn't call. Then after about 2 hours, he called me because I hadn't answered the texts. I hadn't seen the texts since I hadn't logged into my computer. But seriously, I thought he would call like he did the previous date. Why wouldn't he? Why change the way you do things? So I asked if he wanted to see me again, and he said yes, so I gave him my direct line instead of him having to use a third-party service that I had him using because I don't know him all that well.

Again, we met online. I'm being careful. He knew this and told me it's better to be overly cautious than not enough so he was fine with the arrangement. I believed him.

I agree with being cautious, it is always a good thing to do. It does sadden me somewhat that people are capable of reprehensible things.

I do agree it's odd to change the way you do things, I can only think maybe he felt that calling you was an imposition on you or that you didn't want to be called. Unlikely I know but I'm just offering alternatives, however unlikely.

I would be more than happy to be courteous to a woman, but I would not expect her to wait for me to open every door, pull out every chair. If she would have to wait 3 minutes for me to come and open a door. That is kind of excessive. If you go the bathroom, I don't think I would get up, un-tuck your chair, open a door, and then when you come back, get up, open the door, and re-tuck you in. I would probably happily stand up when you returned and sit back down with you.Again maybe I'm from a different generation.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SugarFlapJacks:
not quoted for privacy

I guess I must look like a fool to him. I would never disrespect him like this.

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Wow, i've been in a similar place. Where I have felt something and sent a heartfelt 'love letter' as it were. I can see how that might be overwhelming for some, maybe even most. But damn. I'm going to be honest and let you know I like you and want to pursue you. If you don't have the courage to tell me where you stand, so be it.

Please don't think about how you look to him. It is unimportant. What matters most is how you look to yourself, how you feel about yourself. If you are happy with everything you have done, you can move forward easily. If you are unhappy, then maybe you may reflect on what and why and make a promise not to make the same mistake again.

It seems to me you have already made up your mind. It also seems you already know the kind of man he is. For what it's worth, I'm sorry.

But even an unhappy experience can be very insightful.

quote:

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Originally posted by Hera:
I am done with that. I am not taking that sh*t from nobody. If you want to leave, don't care to tell me upfront what's going on or don't let me in during whatever it is you're going through, then stay gone.

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Admirable.
I must admit, I am deeply hurt when the people I care about don't let me in and share with me. It hurts, a lot.
One day I hope I can be a stronger person like yourself.

posted September 18, 2013 06:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:

But this is not a majority of men. Actually most are very straight forward and don't even read this dating stuff, let alone act it out.
They are not such manipulative masterminds who live with their heads in the gutter.. and go around playing dating games.

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i dont think all of the posters said that most men did that but that many or some do...and women do it too.
and, since you don't date, and some of your observations are based on people you look from the outside, and you may not know internally, ...then im not sure how you can place your perspective as being objective as factual-based, as you are indirectly doing. your perspective is limited, after all. you would need to see both sides of the issue in order to understand, but, you seem to be exposed more to one side.
mind you, i respect where you are coming from.
but obviously, everybody here has its own perspective and ways of seeing things, and imo, all of them are valid.

posted September 18, 2013 07:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hikoro:
everybody here has its own perspective and ways of seeing things, and imo, all of them are valid.
[/B]

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I love when I'm called an it, really gives me goosebumps mmmm.

I can understand where Odette is coming from, and it's interesting to hear a different viewpoint from a Woman on the subject. It's refreshing and actually gives me a little hope. Thinking about it, all of the Men I am friends with, have never acted this way. I guess my perception is just skewed from when I have found myself in a bar or a club during my University days. To be honest I much preferred just dancing to doing anything else, even drinking or talking and meeting people. I think the last time I went to a bar or club was probably 2 years ago. I just don't think they are a place where I am going to meet someone worthwhile, but you never know. You can find love anywhere I guess...

posted September 18, 2013 08:52 PM            

You must have copied and pasted some of my reply to you because I removed it. It was indeed long and I didn't mean to hijack this thread.

quote:

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Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
I would be more than happy to be courteous to a woman, but I would not expect her to wait for me to open every door, pull out every chair. If she would have to wait 3 minutes for me to come and open a door. That is kind of excessive. If you go the bathroom, I don't think I would get up, un-tuck your chair, open a door, and then when you come back, get up, open the door, and re-tuck you in. I would probably happily stand up when you returned and sit back down with you.Again maybe I'm from a different generation.

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posted September 19, 2013 04:07 AM            

quote:

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you may not know them internally

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The thing is.. I have many male friends, including my two step brothers and the guy I grew up with who was like a brother.. and I do know most of these guys very well - because I ask questions and I listen attentively - Pisces Mercury gets to know everyone well

The others I mentioned (like teachers, co-workers etc) - who I am not necessarily close to - may not be everything they seem. I agree that you can't always judge a book by its cover!

However, many of them seem a bit too simple - to be sooo complicated underneath it all. Of course it is possible! But it's a stretch...
Sometimes it's ok to trust your intuition - when something is extra obvious (e.g. it's obvious to me that my private int law teacher is not a player... Could I be wrong? Yes... Am I wrong? Very unlikely.... Can I prove this to you online? Nope... but if you met him you'd understand!).

quote:

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then im not sure how you can place your perspective as being objective as factual-based

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Well I get close to people quite easily. I don't have to date them in order to get close and get to know them. I am very open with my male friends - not with all of them of course.. but there are a few I click with and I can *really* talk to.
And they are also open with me.

posted September 19, 2013 04:12 AM            

quote:

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i dont think all of the posters said that most men

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posted September 19, 2013 04:14 AM            

And also since we are so multi-faceted, you get what you expect from people .. So if we want goodness in a relationship, you've to develop that expectation of goodness in you to the point that he cant resist but match that - and if he doesn't then that's not the right person for you and that's great to know, so you can find that right person for you

posted September 19, 2013 04:19 AM            

quote:

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Thinking about it, all of the Men I am friends with, have never acted this way. I guess my perception is just skewed from when I have found myself in a bar or a club during my University days.

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Exactly my experience. Basically all of the guys I know and am friends with do not act this way. There's a player popping up here or there every so often.. but I mean.. it's not so 'common'.
And good call on mentioning clubbing. Worst place ever to meet people! O_O

Hera -

quote:

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I am done with that. I am not taking that sh*t from nobody. If you want to leave, don't care to tell me upfront what's going on or don't let me in during whatever it is you're going through, then stay gone. Biggest mistakes of my life have been taking people back. Never a good idea.

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posted September 19, 2013 06:48 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Hikoro -

Well I get close to people quite easily. I don't have to date them in order to get close and get to know them. I am very open with my male friends - not with all of them of course.. but there are a few I click with and I can *really* talk to.
And they are also open with me.

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that's the thing....i actually hang out with more men, always been a tomboy.
however, the way that a man is a friend to you is different from the way they date.
that is what i meant about knowing the person internally.
a wife knows her husband differently from his best friend, and the way he acts with his friends is very different from the way he acts to his lovers.

so, even though my friends seem to be very respectful....since i have not dated them, i cant be objective about their dating behavioural patterns.
they've also have had issues in relationships and when we talk...it is no wonder that some women feel that they were played. some of them did do it for laughs, others just made mistakes.

posted September 19, 2013 07:11 AM            

quote:

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guys are also human beings

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quote:

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if you give someone love and understanding and some respect to their personhood, you can be pretty hard to resist

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posted September 19, 2013 07:12 AM            

quote:

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however, the way that a man is a friend to you is different from the way they date.
that is what i meant about knowing the person internally.

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I see what you mean but as I was saying - I am very *close* to these guys and I ask questions.
So they tell me a lot about their romantic life anyway.

I'm not a tomboy though.
I don't hang out with them as another guy would.. so I usually try to get close and see *who* they are deep down - what they're made of.
It's a watery thing to do

quote:

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now, i disagree with the op, that's too much mindgame

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posted September 19, 2013 09:43 AM            

I let it fall, my heart
And as it fell, you rose to claim it
It was dark and I was over
Until you kissed my lips and you saved me

My hands, they're strong
But my knees were far too weak
To stand in your arms
Without falling to your feet

But there's a side to you that I never knew, never knew
All the things you'd say, they were never true, never true
And the games you'd play, you would always win, always win

But I set fire to the rain
Watched it pour as I touched your face
Let it burn while I cry
'Cause I heard it screaming out your name, your name

When laying with you
I could stay there, close my eyes
Feel you here, forever
You and me together, nothing is better

'Cause there's a side to you that I never knew, never knew
All the things you'd say, they were never true, never true
And the games you'd play, you would always win, always win

But I set fire to the rain
Watched it pour as I touched your face
Let it burn while I cried
'Cause I heard it screaming out your name, your name

I set fire to the rain
And I threw us into the flames
Where I felt something die, 'cause I knew that
That was the last time, the last time

Sometimes I wake up by the door
As if that heart you caught is still waiting for you
Even now when it's already over
I can't help myself from looking for you

I set fire to the rain
Watched it pour as I touched your face
Let it burn while I cried
'Cause I heard it screaming out your name, your name

I set fire to the rain
And I threw us into the flames
Where I felt something die
'Cause I knew that that was the last time, the last time, oh

posted September 19, 2013 10:22 AM            

There is this Virgo I have been messin with for 2 and a half years. Gypsee knows who I speak of.

He moved away from me a year and a half ago, to go back home, supported him on his decision, would never ask anybody to stay anywhere they were unhappy for me, and by home, 1200 miles away.

His intent was for us to get together from time to time, but it never manifested, not for my lack of trying. His bad.

Anyway, we have maintained a connection.

But he a Virgo and me a Pisces makes it harder than heck.

He is not able to be there for me emotionally, never has and I keep making the mistake of "leaning" on him when an emotional issue comes up.

But then again, I feel if somebody is in one's life as a SO, good friend, family, they should be there for you, when you need to lean on somebody.

After a horrific event Monday, I, once again made the mistake of just asking him for a prayer, he asked why, so I told him.

He got all kinds of crazy, shot me down to a mere piece of dust told me I needed my head examined, all kinds of things.

So, I blew it off, swiitched up the subject matter the next day as my daughter was having a cardiac MRI, he and I both nurses, so I texted him about that...then couldn't resist being a beeatch a litle later about naming my house, that which he thought was the most crazy thing he has ever heard as well.

(It is common in Texas for folks to name their estates, all ranches have names, I just happened to choose to name a house I very much love.)

So, I let it go...never hear from him again, whatever, tho I kind of knew I would...

So this morning about 2 am (he works night shift) he starts texting me about how he got another contract.

Then he texts me a pic, then another of the same model and year of my truck, which is a special edition and hard to find, that he saw while driving on the road (no coincidence sweetheart...) a truck he did not approve of me purchasing..

Now here I am...I am not going to text him back until I feel like it.

Not because I am playing a game, but because, right now I dont want to!

Since he IS a Virgo, he needs time to get HIS head straight, in a man-style way and I am giving him ample time to do so.

Sure, I am a tough one to handle, I have an energy (Scorp asc) that really can scare people, intrigues men, but scares them too. His Mars, nearly the only planet he does not have in Virgo conj my Scorp exactly, and that is what will keep him coming back.

Anyway, not playing a game, just, finally after so, so, many mistakes with men employing the use of my knowledge of astrology and my knowledge of the human psyche and energy.

When a man feels a woman's energy fading from him, unless he wants her gone, he will come back in spades. Experienced this one with an Aqua or two.

posted September 19, 2013 03:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
I don't think you posted this as a label for all men.

Either way, personally, the way I conduct myself and how I go about things. A lot of it runs contrary to the article you posted, and it is a long article.

It recommends doling out things like sex, time, and intimacy in small supplies. I'm not expert in relationships but I thought relationships were built on time spent together, intimate moments shared, and that does include sex. Everyone has different desires, wants, and needs. Some people would probably crave sex every couple or every few days. Others may be able to go without for much longer. If you want to talk about incompatibility, it would be matching up what two people want.

You cannot have Person A with a high sex drive, wants a family, is happy spending time at home, and occasionally seeing friends.

Vs.

Person B, with a low sex drive, does not want a family, is career oriented, and spends a lot of time out socialising with people.

I just highly doubt that a relationship between these two people would work out.

[b]When dating don't always be available. Well... maybe you don't jump up and down screaming, "OH MY GOD YES! I WOULD LOVE TO GO OUT ON THURSDAY!" if you genuinely could not make it, fair enough. If you could make it and lied, saying you couldn't. Well that is kinda ****** . If I were to find out someone lied to me about something like that, I would be thinking twice about what type of person they were. Maybe I'm a minority, but I enjoy spending time with someone and getting to know them better, and if they are simply unavailable, a lot. Then I won't be spending time with them, I won't be getting to know them, I won't be forming any emotional bond with them, and ultimately nothing will end up happening.

"Hey are you free thursday? There is an outside concert in Faraday Park."

"No sorry, I'm busy that day."
(Time passes)
"Hey are you free Tuesday? There is an outside exhibition downtown."

"I'm sorry I already have plans."
(Time passes)
"Hey what are you up to Friday, I have some friends that run their own outside movie screening."

"Oh I'm sorry I can't make it."

Here comes the important part.

(*denotes thinking)
*Hmmm, I guess she just isn't interested in me, since she doesn't seem to want to spend any time with me.

That is my thought process, and that has happened. Maybe I am just this exception, but I do this for my friends, I make time for them and invite them to do things. If they continually turn me down AND do not invite me to spend time with them, then I'm sorry but our friendship is obviously not worth much to you and it will start to slowly degrade.

Spending time with someone, in my opinion, is the only way to build a relationship with them.

Never let someone know you're crazy about them. I don't know, my Venus is in Scorpio, so it either goes, I do not open up about how I feel until I feel there is some small semblance of security. At which point I am more than happy to be completely open and honest. I do agree that opening up straight away can be a lot to take in and be overwhelming. You also haven't gotten a chance to know each other, so how do you really know how you feel?

With regards to the, "I'll take you there some day, or maybe when we're living together." And the "We'll see where this goes."

I'm sorry but for me all that tells me is that they are not thinking about having a future with me. Again maybe i'm an exception, but I generally won't be in a relationship longer than 9 months - 1 year if I do not feel we are compatible for longer term, or if she does not think about a longer term future. Maybe i'm a terrible person, but if I am not someone they can see themselves with in the long term, why the hell would I want to waste their time? Which they could spend finding someone they do want a long term relationship with. Maybe that is too honest of me.

Emotions are overwhelming to men and confuse the hell out of them.

If that isn't one of the most sexist things I have ever heard. I personally don't find emotions overwhelming. Actually I really enjoy emotions, and would love to find someone that we could be emotionally honest and share with each other. I mean, that's what emotions are about isn't it? The best way for a woman to get her man's attention, is to cry, because if he cares, his heart is going to break, and I am speaking from experience. Nothing has made me feel the way I do, when i've watched/held/talked with/cuddled the woman I love when she has been crying. I would have done almost anything (I won't know my limits until I face them) to have taken her pain/sadness/unhappiness away.

The idea of being a 'therapist' does not particularly bother me. I'm there to listen to her, to care about her and for her. If she doesn't confide in me or share her feelings with me. I don't feel I matter enough or am important enough to her, and in that case, why does she even want me around? Yes I speak from experience again.

Ever listen in on a bunch of men talking amongst themselves? It basically boils down to this:
a couple of grunts
some high-fives
and some laughs
Simple communication. That’s the name of the game with men. Keep it simple ladies.

I must reconsider my earlier statement, THIS is the most sexist thing I have ever heard.

I just disagree with so much, and I wonder. If this is how the majority of Women see Men and dating, and the majority of how Men see dating and Women. I feel sad about the modern state of dating and relationships. I don't think it helps that there are guys reading these Pick Up Artist tutorials, and reading behaviour guides, and how to manuals from other men. Why is that? Well who is the best person to tell you what a woman wants in a relationship? That is right, a man.

Just kidding, it is actually a woman.

Do these things work? I have no idea, I don't really care either, but I am willing to make my bet that no lasting or fulfilling relationship will ever be born of using the 'techniques' described in PUA or in this article. By that I mean, throughout the relationship you follow the rubber band theory and with hold your time and sex from the relationship.

Maybe I should not have replied.
Maybe I should have just shaken my head, and moved on.

It's things like this, that make me feel that being single is actually a better option, than dealing with all the psychological warfare that is expounded in today's dating and relationship world.

[/B]

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Wow

What a post that was! Very well-thought out & explained effortlessly. You're a man that I have much respect for.

posted September 19, 2013 03:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Hera:
On the same lines..

Take it as anecdotal value lol.

I think for a vast majority of men, still, Gypsee's post does apply. I don't particularly like it or intend to support or tolerate it. My Aries ass will leave faster than you can blink. However, I think soon we will have to abandon these stereotypes about men and women (my 11H can dream!) as I do see more often men who are mature and emotionally aware and available, who will not disappear on us! It's true we usually don't notice them until we ourselves have matured. But knowing one is worth the wait. I am glad we have 2 already on this thread!
SDragon
SwiftFreeze

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This is another great post!

I'm also an Aries & I will get O.U.T of a situation *fast* if I do not like where it's going. I do not enjoy wasting my time...it's too precious!

I completely agree with you about eventually letting go of these 'stereotypes' we have about each other, truly.

posted September 19, 2013 04:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Hikoro -
I see what you mean but as I was saying - I am very *close* to these guys and I ask questions.
So they tell me a lot about their romantic life anyway.

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i still reiterate that that is not the same as dating them. it is basic psychology. that is one of the reasons some say there are two different sides of the story. when someone tells you something, they're telling it to you from their own perspective, you would have to experience or know them very intimately in order to really see the way they truly act.
it doesnt mean that they're not being honest when they converse with you.
however, as an example, a male friend has issues with girl x, he tells me his story. and surprisingly, girl x tells me her story, although there will be parallels between the two stories, girl x will shed certain things that my male friend may not have been aware of about himself in the dating arena. the same as for girl x. reason being, men don't react the same way towards their female friends vs. the women they date/have sex with. it is a matter of degrees of intimacy.
im talking here about self-reflection, perspective and experience and again, intimacy.

quote:

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I'm not a tomboy though.
I don't hang out with them as another guy would.. so I usually try to get close and see *who* they are deep down - what they're made of.
It's a watery thing to do

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i never thought that tomboy meant hanging out with men like a man or that tomboys detached themselves from understanding their male friends. tomboys don't necessarily act like men, at least, i dont. what i mean is i grew up with boys and i am around men most of the time.
as to water, i understand. i have a water stellium... scorpio and pisces.

quote:

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Do you agree with me and Newrise about the lack of respect for personhood?

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elaborate.

posted September 19, 2013 10:22 PM            

Thanks for sharing, Gypsee. While I agree the behaviors in the article were immature, I also believe they are the reality for most people in the dating world today. Young people don't understand that yet, and men like Dragon don't grow on trees. (He's probably hiding in a cave somewhere surrounded by treasure.)

posted September 19, 2013 10:23 PM            

Thanks for sharing, Gypsee. While I agree the behaviors in the article were immature, I also believe they are the reality for most people in the dating world today. Young people don't understand that yet, and men like Dragon don't grow on trees. (He's probably hiding in a cave somewhere surrounded by treasure.)