posted July 20, 2020 12:44 AM            

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Originally posted by Dwhelps:
Hi AQUA.
I finished the thread.
First, thank you for sharing that with me. And with mirage. And you can delete it whenever you want!!!
Thank you for being so vulnerable.

I'm a little speechless.
You are one strong woman!
You've been through a lot and come out the other end.
And you are 9 years younger than me!!!!!!
You are STRONG.

How are you doing now?

The last 2 years that I've been dealing with anxiety, I've always thought - I can't imagine how it would be for me to suffer from other ailments at a younger age... ADHD... anorexia...
self-harm... those are no joke.
My anxiety often feels like compulsion.. I have had bad times where I felt compulsive like I wanted to rip the skin off my hands... and it was completely beside myself - it didn't feel like me. I have been unable to live a "normal" life for these 2 years too and missed out on a lot.

I can't imagine what that would have been like for you in your teens, missing out on school and normal everyday things. Especially at such a young age, it can be incredibly hard to cope and be strong.

I am so proud of you for overcoming those challenges.
I hope you give yourself credit every. single. day.

I am so beyond glad that you have been able to go to university and are "compensating" for your missed years - because, HELLO, you deserve it!
Over-compensate all you want!

Life is to be enjoyed!

Letting go of grievances, trusting ourselves and having faith. That's the right way to move forward.

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Thank you so much )

Uhm >////< I am in some ways glad that most of my worst (tbh I think ALL of my worst) occurred when I was younger because if they were to happen now, I don't know if I am able to cope. With the stresses of becoming an adult, being somebody and racing with everybody else. I think as an Asian you'd be able to identify... at 30 to 32 I think there are tons of pressure on you for marriage, have kids from your family, basically to appear as a societally accepted version of yourself, however untrue it may be. With your friends landing jobs, finding husbands, starting a family, buying houses and just generally getting on with their lives while your stuck with these mental demons (ok I am probably assuming too much but this is how I think I'd feel), perhaps I am in no position to say this but I think I'd gladly trade 2 years of teenage life for 2 sane years of adulthood, at such a crucial age.

But as things in the real world never work this perfectly, where 1+1=2, the key for me is to prevent relapsing and for you is to overcome your demons.

I have tried therapy, when my grandfather died and I went into therapy for emotional regulation and expression -> hence I have the tendency to express my emotions in a rather awkward or weird manner as Graham had experienced. Perhaps due to my afflicted moon or my childhood (although I think theres a few stress aspects highlighting this) but I used to repress/suppress my emotions so much (or emotional blunting as a result from depression) that for I stopped feeling them completely, so my emotions wreck havoc on my body instead. So when my grandpa died, I was so overwhelmed with grief yet unable to process it properly I ended up getting a seizure. My moon is really hard~ so I envy yours greatly.

"It was completely beside me, it didn't feel like me" <- This was how I felt with my eating disorder. It's hard to explain to others that I hear my ED yelling at me in my head and compelling me to do things but that I am not crazy because I am aware of myself, yet at the same time not really. It's like dissociation, but not really as well. Its a state of being there, yet not there at the same time. Moving your body and feeling it, yet feeling like a puppet at the same time. You, yet not you. It is inexplicable honestly.

~Recently I haven't been doing so well. I just started taking antidepressants again after more than 2 years. Thankfully, my depression isn't even 1/4 as bad as it used to. It feels to me more of going through the things I suppressed previously to 'move on' quicker and start a life hence they resurfaced during the pandemic when the entire world slowed down and I feel like I can take some time off without missing out on too much. "Tying up the loose ends" So in another sense, I am grateful too. (Hahh I seem grateful for everything. I am also grateful to have met you haha. I think I am too much of a glass half full, silver lining kind of person although I am definitely not optimistic.)
Other than this, all is good ☺️

posted July 20, 2020 12:59 AM            

As for what you said about Dejanira, I am still scared because there's literally nothing shielding it from harm, and it conjuncts my Moon, Chiron and Ascendant (oh my god) -.-
Strangely, I haven't been victimised by others so maybe I am saved by Pluto square Ascendant :'))

Do you think you can overcome Moon square Venus if you are aware of it?
I.e align what you want with what you need?

posted July 20, 2020 02:51 AM            

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Originally posted by Graham:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by AQUACap88:
[b]

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what is my role in this?
How do I help her?

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I don't really know how to look at davison charts

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For example ... in Chiron - Healing Body & Soul ... Martin Lass asserts that Chiron in Leo/2nd could indicate a (Leo) "search for the Self/one's value beyond ego and personality", which manifests primarily through the (2nd house) issues of "emotional and material insecurity, safety, comfort, values and well-being". ... And, in a Davison Chart relationship, that translates as "two people working together (on their natal 'issues'), to discover the path which their Souls intend them to follow in the current lifetime". [/B][/QUOTE]
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Graham, Thanks for all this insight and guidance.
I really appreciate it.

Did you get to read my interpretation on my own natal? Does it make sense? I want to make sure I'm getting the right handle on the aspects and in the right direction.

posted July 20, 2020 07:57 AM            

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Is that a Natal Chart Transit? I was able to input the location (I am in a place different from where I was born) but can't seem to find a place to key in the time.

As well, I don't know how to interpret the chart... I have never done transit charts before.

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It is a transit chart ... but you will be using it as a new/born-again natal chart that is active throughout the whole of your second Saturn cycle.

Are you able to provide your location data for the day when the returning saturn transit finally left the arc degree, minute and second of your natal Saturn placement?
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I went back to my natal chart and checked off aspects to Chiron and sure enough, I am getting a different picture.
I didn't notice that before - my Chiron is square my Nodes.
That is SIGNIFICANT.
I feel it in my life.

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So, although not a planet, your Chiron's square to the nodes might indicate a missed step relating to the Gemini wound of "feeling unable to communicate with others, verbally inept, unable to fit in socially, unintelligent, and/or unable to see the connections between one thing and another" - which manifests in the 9th house via religion, and as a "crisis of disconnection with the higher Self". (Quotes from Chiron - Healing Body & Soul.)

And ... Virgo SN - Pisces NN might indicate a current lifetime reliance upon conscious/Mercury thinking (Virgo), and insufficient reliance upon unconscious/Neptune "nowse" (Pisces).

Might that be the natal Neptune-Sun square issue which Pluto is trying to transform (via the Learning Triangle)? ... And might a "crisis of disconnection with the higher Self" result in the one-lifetime Ego experiencing depression?
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Why would you say NN-Chiron-Mars and not Mercury-Chiron-Mars since my Mercury and NN are almost conjunct?
Is the NN more significant than the Mercury?

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Both these learning triangles in my chart are running counter-clockwise. This means the solutions will be easier to come to?

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My father was not a mainstay in my childhood - my parents are divorced. He is a good man though, but that's how I interpret my Sun square Saturn. (Tell me if I'm getting it wrong).

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How's my interpretation?

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The Pluto is trickier.... these green dotted lines are quintiles right? Bi-quintiles in my case?

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Sun-Pluto......I have never especially identified with that part of me... but I can see it in my personality too once I really think about it.
I see the Neptune square my Sun... I can be an idealistic person.. because of my childhood, I would often find solace in daydreaming and escapism. I am deeply creative. I think the Pluto in the 2nd house Scorpio-Sun is showing me that I can ground these desires in the material sense. Concrete. I have the power, the transformational power to make these desires concrete. Sun-Pluto seems like a very powerful force to be reckoned with. A little scary and overwhelming.
Maybe that's part of the solution.
Recognizing that many things can die and rebirth to make room for better and new. Transformational.

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So ... in this case, exaltation makes the Sun very conscious/aware that others expect her to 'always be on best behaviour" - and transformational Pluto is acutely aware that attempting to live up to those expectations makes the Sun unable to be her true self. [In effect, the Sun/Ego becomes the "possession" of the everyday expectations of others.]

posted July 21, 2020 12:02 AM            

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Originally posted by Graham:
[b]Originally posted by Whelps:

It is a transit chart ... but you will be using it as a new/born-again natal chart that is active throughout the whole of your second Saturn cycle.

Are you able to provide your location data for 9th January 2018?
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Graham, first, thank you so very much for your thoughtful response. Thank you for taking your time to look at my chart!
I have been taking time to reflect and contemplate on everything you said. I’m still soaking it all in and trying to see how it is playing out or played out in my life so far.

Are you able to draw the chart? Or I can paste a link to the one I have done.

I’m still thinking about everything........
I’m glad to know my Sun isn’t square Saturn.
I’m glad you pointed that out, I guess I don’t really know how to read the orbs! 😅
Is my Moon really square my Venus then? I hope I didn’t misread that too!

posted July 21, 2020 02:02 AM            

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Are you able to draw the chart?

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I’m going to edit out specifics later

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posted July 21, 2020 04:21 AM            

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Ok. ... And, when you have done so, I shall delete the specifics in this reply.

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Thank you! I will first remove the location now.

posted July 21, 2020 05:35 AM            

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Originally posted by Dwhelps:
So, this would be the chart? http://imgur.com/a/IfxHOVi
How do I interpret this?

Thank you! I will first remove the location now.

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posted July 21, 2020 05:55 AM            

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Originally posted by Graham:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dwhelps:
[b]So, this would be the chart? http://imgur.com/a/IfxHOVi
How do I interpret this?

Thank you! I will first remove the location now.

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I don’t know how to do that?
On astrodienst, drop-down menu I chose “Natal charts and transits*”
and then input Jan 10, 2018 for Start date,
Location under “Reference Place” in “Default Settings”

posted July 21, 2020 09:01 AM            

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Originally posted by Dwhelps:
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I don’t know how to do that?
On astrodienst, drop-down menu I chose “Natal charts and transits*”
and then input Jan 10, 2018 for Start date,
Location under “Reference Place” in “Default Settings”

:S

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posted July 21, 2020 09:55 AM            

OH!!!!!!!!!
I understand now!
But why? And..... I don’t know what to make of this!

posted July 21, 2020 10:55 AM            

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Originally posted by Dwhelps:

OH!!!!!!!!!
I understand now!
But why? And..... I don’t know what to make of this!

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It is a Return chart ... So, as with a Solar Return Chart, it is drawn for the location, date and local time of the place you were at when the transit planet (Saturn) was at the same arc degree, minute and second as the natal planet.

And ... in the same way that a solar return chart reveals the Sun issues which the person will be dealing with during the next (one-year) cycle, the saturn return chart reveals the Saturn issues which he/she will be dealing with during the next (30-year) cycle.

The astrological principle is the same for the return chart of all planets - but few astrologers tend to explore it beyond the Solar Return Chart (despite computers now enabling modern astrologers to calculate-and-explore return charts in hours, rather than the months it would have taken previous generations of astrologers to do so.).
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I don’t know what to make of this!

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Perhaps start with a synastry comparison between the born-again saturn chart and the natal chart ... to identify what issues have changed (and how)? .... [But that is a topic to explore on another thread.]
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I understand now!

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posted July 22, 2020 02:08 AM            

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I have an exact date for when I first started feeling unwell.... May 27, 2018.

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On that day, progressed Jupiter was opposing natal/progressed Pluto and progressed Sun was activating your natal Pluto-Neptune-Sun learning triangle. ... Transit Saturn was entering into a long-term square with natal Sun; transit Venus was opposing natal Neptune and transit Moon activated all of this (via a conjunction with natal Pluto on 27th May 2018).

So ... might this activation of the natal Neptune-Sun-Pluto learning triangle have prompted your depression ... thus providing an opportunity to reflect upon the not-yet-fully-understood lesson(s) of that triangle?
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Does it make more sense for me to use these dates? Or should I just focus on my Saturn return chart.

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So ... the next step would be to look at the born-again Saturn chart ... to see what the soul intended to be the relationship/aspects of Neptune-Sun-Pluto during the 2nd Saturn cycle. ... And in the born-again chart, we find that Pluto-Sun-Venus are now conjunct (in Capricorn/12th; making a 7th harmonic aspect with Venus (in Pisces/1st) plus a sextile to Mars+Jupiter (in Scorpio/9th, on MC).

posted July 22, 2020 03:42 AM            

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How are you getting this? What sort of chart do I draw to see this?

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posted July 22, 2020 03:45 AM            

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Originally posted by Graham:

If your Soul has created a period of depression, to reflect upon the lesson(s) of the Neptune-Sun-Pluto triangle ... that indicates you were not yet where the Soul intended to be (with that learning) by 27th May 2018.

So ... the next step would be to look at the born-again Saturn chart ... to see what the soul intended to be the relationship/aspects of Neptune-Sun-Pluto during the 2nd Saturn cycle. ... And in the born-again chart, we find that Pluto-Sun-Venus are now conjunct (in Capricorn/12th; making a 7th harmonic aspect with Venus (in Pisces/1st) plus a sextile to Mars+Jupiter (in Scorpio/9th, on MC).

This changed relationship tells us that the lesson(s) of the natal Neptune-Sun-Pluto learning triangle were intended to be completed by the end of the first Saturn Cycle ... and that the learning will be used during the second Saturn Cycle. However, the reconnection with your ex appears to have resulted in a repeating of past behaviours (rather than confirming they are now resolved) - so you can use those events/dates to reflect mindfully upon what might be the natal Neptune-Sun-Pluto lesson(s) it is that you have not yet fully understood.

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Oh my goodness. Those last few paragraphs.

While looking at the Saturn Return chart (alone, not in synastry to my natal). I see what you are saying.

posted July 22, 2020 07:35 AM            

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Transit Saturn square Natal Sun sounds pretty heavy. It sounds like what I was/am going through.

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Your transit of Capricorn Saturn square natal Sun was within a one-degree-orb from 21st March to 17th May 2018 and from 7th to 24th December 2018. ... However, transit Saturn then remained within a one-degree-orb of natal Pluto until 21st January 2019 (so still activating the natal Neptune-Sun-Pluto triangle).

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The worst of it was in Dec 2018-April 2019.

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Is it possible to tell when I will enter a easier transit?

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posted July 23, 2020 02:46 AM            

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So... right now... is Saturn still near/activating my Neptune-Sun-Pluto triangle?

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Assuming a one-degree-orb of influence, the natal triangle is activated when any progressed or/and transit planet is at 08deg30mins20secs to 13deg02mins40secs of any sign.

Currently, transit Saturn is at 28Cap27 and progressed Saturn is at 02Cap13 ... so, Saturn is not currently activating your natal Neptune-Sun-Pluto learning triangle.

However ... progressed Sun, progressed Jupiter and progressed MC are currently activating the triangle ... and it is permanently activated by the slow-moving progressions of Neptune and Pluto.

Moreover ... the triangle is currently being activated by the transits* of Mars, Chiron and Uranus.

[* Transit Moon will also activate the triangle to day (23rd July 2020) ... from 14:00pm (UT/GMT) until 22:00pm (UT/GMT).]
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I wonder what my Grand trine could mean or be?

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But ... in the past, you have used Moon+Jupiter to NOT "rock the boat" when Uranus has created events requiring/impelling you to assert your individuality*.

[ *For example, when abused by another person ... doing nothing = acquiescence : complaining clearly/calmly = assertiveness : flushing his/her head down the nearest available toilet = aggression.]
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Also... I looked at my born again chart..... the new Saturn Return.... and the MARS is square the nodes! Am I supposed to look at that?
It doesn’t sound any easier........ does that mean I could possibly struggle with anger management in these 30yrs?

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Perhaps Mars/Jupiter in Scorpio/9th indicates a missed step in dealing appropriately with sexual assault, which is now hampering the expression of your self (Leo) and of your individuality (Aquarius).
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I am still contemplating hard on the lessons I need to learn via those 2 triangles...

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posted July 23, 2020 01:00 PM            

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Originally posted by Whelps :

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When I have a Saturn return chart, do I still look at my natal?
It's a born-again chart... does that mean everything in my natal still applies for the next 30 years? Or do I look at the born-again chart instead, or some sort of mix of both? Which takes precedence?

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So ... everything in your natal chart/map does apply for the next 30 years. ... But, you now have a compass showing the direction in which to go for the next 30 years.
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You know how we were speculating that perhaps I haven't solved my Neptune-Pluto-Sun triangle?
Perhaps I have....

Looking at the born again chart....
When I said something changed in me around April-May 2020... (obviously it was a gradual change since '18), I meant that I had spoken up to my assailants. I confronted them and I grew into a mind space over these 2 yrs where I no longer felt like I was a silent, ashamed victim.
I was angry - raging. And I finally felt like it was okay to be so. That I had a right to be angry and that those people should be the ones ashamed. And I sought closure. (but no, I didn't flush his/her head down the nearest toilet. BOY, did I want to though!)
I was able to keep calm... but I was able to assert my boundaries in a way that I've never done.... I was aggressively firm, but not violent. I stated my case.

I think that was moving towards a more Mars square the Nodes theme?
But when looking at my natal chart, it also shows how I took ACTION (Mars - 4th house in a very logical way - Cap - I was very practical and assertive when I confronted them) to help integrate/solve some of the Chiron hurts (in my 9th house, gemini communication again).
I felt an immediate sense of release after both those confrontations. Doing that helped the blockage after staying silent for years... even decades.

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Yes. The natal chart contains the Neptune-Sun issue that needed to be resolved. Asserting your boundaries was the resolution of that issue. The missed step in the born-again chart is completed IF/WHEN that asserting of boundaries becomes a permanent behavioural trait. Completing the missed step enables you to be your true self throughout the second Saturn Cycle. And, (my guess is that) being our true self is the key to ending astrological/non-clinical depression.
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My Uranus is in Capricorn though?
I do suspect it also has to do with that too though...
relationships.. society... and communication... in a grounded, emotionally controlled way.
perhaps advocacy.

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Do these new nodes mean my old nodes Pisces-Virgo aren't as significant anymore?

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But bear in mind that, in How to be a Great Astrologer, James Braha states ... "The most arduous of all node positions occurs when the house and sign of the North Node are diametrically opposed." (Because) "The object is to strike a balance." (And) "what makes that task extraordinarily difficult is that the person must, alternately, pursue both (node) paths. If one course is followed to the exclusion of the other, there will be quick retribution and suffering. Both ways must be cultivated, as the person is on Earth to learn equilibrium between the two spheres involved."
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Also... I’m wondering if I should look at his synastry with mine, and composite... again?
I looked before but I think it’s the past.
Maybe it can give some insight why it triggered me during that time?

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