Posts: 3307
From: England
Registered: Jan 2002

posted December 28, 2002 04:08 AM         

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These are the people who have "in theory" (as no proof given as yet) have cloned the first baby.

Anyway, I'd never even heard of them before this announcement. Had anyone one else? What do you think about their beliefs?

Here's a link to their offical website.
http://www.rael.org/

Sue

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Posts: 2007
From: Boca Raton, FL USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted December 28, 2002 05:45 AM         

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I don't know what to think. I find it interesting however very scary. Maybe someone should do a lexi on these people! Notice how I dodge any responsibility with this

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Food is the only art that nourishes!

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Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted December 28, 2002 12:03 PM         

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In most countries it is illegal, but the US has no such law.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 3307
From: England
Registered: Jan 2002

posted December 28, 2002 12:06 PM         

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Yes I too find it interesting but scary as it could be open to misuse.

It's illegal here in the UK.

I think that's a fantastic idea re the lexi - I'll post on the lexi forum

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Posts: 3193
From: Southern 'Bama
Registered: Aug 2002

posted December 28, 2002 12:56 PM         

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I remember hearing something about them around the time Dolly was made...they had expressed their intention to make cloned babies b/c, to them, it was the only way to achieve perfection and near-immortality of humanity (as, in their minds, life on earth was started by alien cloners...)
Their founder's something like an French ex-academic/journalist who claims to be a prophet.
Yeah.

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Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 08, 2003 05:06 AM         

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Any updates?

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 3307
From: England
Registered: Jan 2002

posted January 08, 2003 05:49 AM         

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Hi Randall
No updates as far as proof that they have actually cloned a baby. They now say another cloned baby is about to be born and more (3 or 4) by the end of this month

The reason they give as to not producing any proof so far is that the parents do not want it to be a public situation - which apparently it would be in order to provide the proof needed re the cloning. They would need to provide DNA samples and so this would then reveal their identities.
I guess time will tell
Sue

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Posts: 738
From: California, USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted January 08, 2003 04:04 PM         

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I hope they outlaw cloning everywhere. I think it would create more problems than it would solve, and also we'd have "designer" babies, which would be maddeningly unfair to us organics.

Cloning is like plagiarism.. isn't it better to be an original? But I also feel sorry for any clones. They'll face a lot of anger and dislike, etc.

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Posts: 2007
From: Boca Raton, FL USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted January 08, 2003 11:07 PM         

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Yes I can't understand why someone would want a replica of themself rather than a creation of them and someone else. Isn't it a little narcisstic to want to create another one of yourself!? I don't know much about this stuff, and I try not to fear, but I just don't know..

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Food is the only art that nourishes!

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Posts: 541
From: Belfast, Ireland
Registered: Jul 2002

posted January 09, 2003 06:00 PM         

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I visited a forum about this topic
One reason the movement gives is to create eternity ( immortality) by recreating the person over again, but that don't make sense because ok maybe the DNA lives on but each time the body is reborn it's gonna be a different soul inhabiting the body. someone posted that a reason this might happen is for the soul to experience other kinds of relationships, and to also attract different souls to Earth.
Would it be true to say that it would not achieve immortality of the soul but of the body?
And with that, each time the body is cloned is it starting from scratch again or will it retain any memory in the brain from the body it was cloned from?

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Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 10, 2003 01:56 AM         

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No memory. Just a DNA likeness.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 541
From: Belfast, Ireland
Registered: Jul 2002

posted January 10, 2003 10:47 AM         

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So memory is the mind rather than the brain?

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Posts: 3193
From: Southern 'Bama
Registered: Aug 2002

posted January 10, 2003 12:31 PM         

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W/ clones that's not even an issue.
They clone from the DNA extracted from a cell - you can't clone the specific interconnections and structure of neurons in an individual's brain.
Think of a clone (if there's not some horrible genetic mistake made in the transfer) as a twin of the person/animal/etc. cloned - it's like a fraternal twin (the kind born when an early-stage fertilized egg completely splits into two), born later.
There's this, too: Some kinds of trees produce sexually only rarely; otherwise they send out "runners" and asexually create genetic clones of themselves (there's a bit of a difference since the trees are still connected and may be considered one organism, but eh...) - anyway, these new trees, with the same genetic structure, have divergent development b/c, even in the same forest w/ the same environmental cycles, there are differing conditions for each individual organism.

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Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 10, 2003 12:34 PM         

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What Proxie said. Memory is in the brain (and Mind), but it's based upon experiences, so cloning would create a clean slate (like a natural newborn).

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 541
From: Belfast, Ireland
Registered: Jul 2002

posted January 10, 2003 05:18 PM         

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So then it's a person who looks just like u, has same DNA but has a differnt experience from you and with a different soul!
Sounds a bit like my little sister, so really if it works is it that big a deal.
It's not the same person so people would be just kidding themselves if they believed they were re-creating someone.
And Maybe we will begin to understand in this way what it's like to be a tree!

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Posts: 3936
From: www.Heaven.Home
Registered: Mar 2002

posted January 10, 2003 05:27 PM         

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What soul/spirit would be eager to inhabit a clone? A ? that I keep turning over & over.
juniperb

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Posts: 3307
From: England
Registered: Jan 2002

posted January 10, 2003 05:53 PM         

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I wish we could find out the birth time etc details of these clones (if they exist...as still no proof that they do)

They haven't published the birth details as won't say which country they were born in - cloning is banned/illegal in most countries.

It would be really fascinating though to look at the birth charts
Sue

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Posts: 2007
From: Boca Raton, FL USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted January 10, 2003 10:24 PM         

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OH OK now I feel dumb I didn't understand that about clones. But still I wouldn't want a copy of me, but I suppose it's just the physical body.

The things that make you go Hmmmmm!

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Food is the only art that nourishes!

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Posts: 558
From: Hotlanta
Registered: Dec 2001

posted January 11, 2003 02:09 AM         

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maybe it could be used with good perpose also...for example, if you had a child who died, you can clone another one who looks exactly the same as the lost child...oh well

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Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 11, 2003 03:38 PM         

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They are doing that now with pets. If your pet is getting old, you can have a new version of him/her. They have only successfully done cats and dogs so far. The name of the program for cats is aptly named "Copy Cat."

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 10
From: Fitchburg Ma 01420
Registered: Jan 2003

posted January 17, 2003 06:12 PM         

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wow, there are already way too many people and animals that are born naturally to be cloning things. what a waste. i really do not see any good in this at all. I also do not believe that those people have actually cloned a baby. They seem too unintelligent.

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Posts: 1987
From: King Arthur's Camelot
Registered: Jun 2002

posted January 17, 2003 08:08 PM         

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Don't scientists claim that by cloning a human being, the person becomes the exact mind of the cloner? Isn't this was scares people?

This is obviously flawed since Scientists are not taking into mind Astrology.

Human Cloning, will fail, not because it will be abolished by government, human cloning is inevitable, but it will fail because the expectations are flawed and the need for it, is utterly unnecessary.

Cloning is basically making a twin that really won't have a connection with anyone except for itself. In that matter, cloning will be failure, as well as a spiritual sin, becuase the souls who choose to inhabit the body will be extremely low entities.

But then again, this is only my opinion, not a fact. What does everyone else think?

Will the soul who chooses to enter the body be an extremely low entity and even from a different realm?

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Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 18, 2003 12:26 AM         

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By the way, Linda was very much against cloning.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 1219
From: Chennai
Registered: Apr 2001

posted January 18, 2003 01:44 AM         

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Besides Astrology - even in Astrology someone who is my astral twin is NOT a replica of me! No, I haven't met any astral twin - mine or that of someone so far. It is not possible to clone you or me or anybody just like that. Only thing possible is to extract DNA and do something (for example, messing around) with THAT. I sincerely doubt whether result would be original creation. What do you guys and gals think? Scientists do not discuss Genetic Engineering much in public, for all I know. May be it is their clones doing all experiments.

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Posts: 541
From: Belfast, Ireland
Registered: Jul 2002

posted January 18, 2003 10:08 AM         

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What about parallel universes, one where their earth looks just like ours, is this not a form of cloning?

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