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Author Topic:   message from starhawk
weird purple sparkles
unregistered
posted February 08, 2003 10:01 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i hope it's okay that i put this here. it's not related to astrology, but i think it's very important..

The Choice Before Us
Starhawk

Somewhere tonight in Iraq, a small girl lies sleeping who in a few weeks may be a lump of scorched flesh buried under concrete.
On a basketball court somewhere in the United States a young man lands a jump shot, who in a few weeks may have no legs, or eyes, or have tumors already brooding in his brain from exposure to the depleted uranium of our own weapons.
A young boy who is healthy and vibrant today will be racked with cancer. A mother will hear her children crying for food and have nothing to give them but tainted water to quench their thirst. Land that is today rich and fertile will, a short time from now, be contaminated with radioactivity that lasts longer than all the years between ancient Sumer and Babylon and now.
And young men and women who in the innocence of their hearts volunteered to serve their country will be led to perpetrate unspeakable crimes that will haunt their nights and blight the rest of their lives. When they complain of strange ailments, the Veteran’s Administration will admit no connection. And for years afterwards, as has happened since the first Gulf War, they will take their own lives in a steady stream of suicides. They will not be the sons and daughters of the men and women who sit in Congress or the White House. A disparate number of them will come from communities in our own land who suffer poverty, dispossession, discrimination.
And all of this will be done at the command of men who have never themselves faced combat or fought a war, who rob our schools and hospitals to pay for their own weapons of mass destruction, who promote an empire-building agenda of their own that will not provide the security they claim. For the sheer injustice of our attack on a country that has not attacked us will provoke such fear and hatred against us that all our bombs and missiles and cops and spies will not be able to keep us safe.
The media and the politicians tell us this war is inevitable, that we can’t stop it, that our protests and petitions and pleas make no difference. They murmur a constant incantation of our powerlessness, lulling us into a nightmare sleep.
But we can still wake up. We can choose to walk out of the nightmare, and dream a different dream.
All it takes is for each one of us who cherishes the lives of children to refuse to be silent, to say no to war, to say yes to peace.
And to ask ourselves, how have we abandoned our country, our fate, into the hands of callous men who have no compunction about wasting lives? What spell has been cast that fogs our eyes and binds our hands? What lies have we believed? What power have we let slip away?
Replace the nightmare with this dream: that in the moment when one world power has amassed the unchallenged military might to make its bid for global empire, its own people rise up and say, "No. That is not what we want to be. We don’t want to rule the world over the broken bodies of children. We don’t want blood on our hands. We want children who are sick to have the best possible care, in Iraq and in our own country. We want schools and jobs and parks and hospitals and food for the hungry. We want to join hands with the people of the world, and strengthen the institutions that are slowly and painfully learning to solve conflicts without bloodshed, and teaching us to respect our differences. We know that peace must be built on justice, and we want peace."
Dream that we wake up, stand up, speak out, not in the thousands but the millions, joining with millions around the world. Dream that soldiers refuse their orders, dockworkers refuse to load ships, secretaries shut off their computers, workers close their factories, and even politicians find the courage to stand for what is right.
And make the dream real. If you have spoken out before, now is the time to speak again, to make another phone call, write another letter, stand in another vigil. If you have marched before, march again and this time bring more of your friends and neighbors. If you haven’t marched, if you have been immersed in the demands of your own life, if you feel that your small voice makes no difference, now is the time to speak anyway, to interrupt your ordinary pursuits, to become the one small drop that just might turn the tide.
If you can get to New York or San Francisco on the weekend of February 15-16 for the big marches and rallies, come—because the numbers are vitally important.
If you can’t, there will be marches and rallies and vigils to join all across the country. Find one, or call one of your own.
Be public. Be visible. Be the loud, uncomfortable conscience that has disappeared from the halls of power.
And believe that truth is stronger than lies, love trumps fear, and no cabal of power can contain the multitudes when we awaken and choose life.

Starhawk


The New York March and Rally is on February 15, in soldarity with marches in capitols all over the world, and is sponsored by United for Peace and Justice.

The San Francisco March and Rally is on February 16, and begins at Justin Hermann Plaza, at 11 AM, and marches to the Federal Building. To join with the Code Pink women’s cluster and the Pagan Cluster, meet us at 10 AM at Montgomery and Market St.

For details and a list of planned actions around the country, check www.unitedforpeace.org.

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proxieme
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 12:40 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you can get to New York or San Francisco on the weekend of February 15-16 for the big marches and rallies, come—because the numbers are vitally important.

I'll be there (NY)
This guy I know @ Uni works for an organization that's bussing people up on that Saturday...
we leave at 6AM on the 15th.

Will anyone else here be there?

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paganannie
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 10:43 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(WPS)I replied on Soul Unions. I think it would have been more appropriate to post the url where people could choose to read this or not if possible. I have an aversion to being forced to view words that I do not choose to fill my head with, so Ive learned to scan my eyes across the written word without reading it all,whenthere's doubt about it's content. I did not expect what you wrote to be found here so Ive learned something new today. I shall practise my scanning wherever I am. Thank you for teaching me a lesson.

------------------
Annie -Almost enlightened

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N_wEvil
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 11:35 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
any events in the UK?

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N_wEvil
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 11:35 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
wibble, double post!

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 09, 2003 11:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Weird, you and your communist buddies have not an ounce of compassion. You would stand idly by while Saddam builds his weapons systems, uses them against his citizens, his neighbors, Israel, or hands off some suitcases stuffed with vials of chemical or biological weapons to terrorists that could kill hundreds of thousands of Americans or Europeans.

You remind me of the "not so good Samaritan" who would walk by a woman being robbed, raped or murdered without lifting a finger to help her.

When the bombs start to fall, they will fall on military installations and Iraqi troop concentrations. Or are you also opposed to bombing Saddam's troops who help keep him in power?

I perceive you have not one clue as to why radical Islam is urging on the terrorists to act against the civilized nations. First, under their twisted reading of the Koran, we are all infidels and all infidels can be killed for no other reason than they are infidels.

Second we support the right of Israel to exist on their ancient homeland. It gets back to what I already said to you weird. The friend of my enemy is my enemy. For more than 50 years, they have attempted to wipe Israel off the face of the map and Israel is a friend of the US and other nations. Infidels one and all.

You're not a communist weird? Well, you're sure carrying their water for them weird by posting their bull sh*t propangda.

I've always wondered weird, how can people who are not communists themselves fall in with communists and promote their aims, which is the destruction of representative government everywhere?

Let's see weird, you don't see any fraud or irony in the communists being behind a peace and compassion movement? These are the people who put up walls to keep their citizens in, who have systematically killed 200 million of their own citizens in the Soviet Union, China, North Viet Nam and North Korea just for disagreeing with their government. North Korea is in the process of starving their citizens to death, more than a million so far and China, imprisons or executes their citizens who disagree or attempt to practice their religious beliefs.

I have to say weird, from my perspective, you're either a communist or an idiot. Take your pick.

But you're right about one thing. I AM entitled to my opinion. This is a free country and it's going to stay that way. And if you feel insulted, good, that was my intention. Expect more of the same if you continue to post BS that insults logic and reason.

jwhop

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 09, 2003 11:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You are most welcome for the lesson Annie.

You are entitled to stuff your head in the sand or some other inappropriate place and refuse to deal with reality.

By the way, the truly enlightened person lives in and deals with the world that IS, working to bring about beneficial change for this and future generations.

Your support of a non intervention policy that leaves an insane armed dictator like Saddam Hussein in power, who sees himself as the modern incarnation of Nebuchadnezzar, who attacks his neighbors causing the death of more than a million and a half of their citizens and who has already directly killed more than a million of his own citizens, seems rooted in insanity, not enlightenment.

jwhop

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N_wEvil
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 12:32 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Weird, you and your communist buddies have not an ounce of compassion. You would stand idly by while Saddam builds his weapons systems, uses them against his citizens, his neighbors, Israel, or hands off some suitcases stuffed with vials of chemical or biological weapons to terrorists that could kill hundreds of thousands of Americans or Europeans.

Then why not march in a special forces team to asassinate him instead of everyone in the damn country?

quote:

You remind me of the "not so good Samaritan" who would walk by a woman being robbed, raped or murdered without lifting a finger to help her.

*scratches head* Isreal has the best equipped army in the world..hardly a helpless nation although its nice to see the US marching in and helping them out with the palestinians.

quote:

When the bombs start to fall, they will fall on military installations and Iraqi troop concentrations. Or are you also opposed to bombing Saddam's troops who help keep him in power?

Like last time when more allied casualties were sustained from bombing themselves?

quote:

I perceive you have not one clue as to why radical Islam is urging on the terrorists to act against the civilized nations. First, under their twisted reading of the Koran, we are all infidels and all infidels can be killed for no other reason than they are infidels.

Like any religious text it depends on how you interpret it, fine - its their bad but somehow I dont think killing them all is the answer?

quote:

Second we support the right of Israel to exist on their ancient homeland. It gets back to what I already said to you weird. The friend of my enemy is my enemy. For more than 50 years, they have attempted to wipe Israel off the face of the map and Israel is a friend of the US and other nations. Infidels one and all.

Yep...so long as they buy western products. The day we all wake up and its one global corporate-controlled superstate with every ounce of culture assimilated into a kind of western blandness will be a sad day indeed.

quote:

You're not a communist weird? Well, you're sure carrying their water for them weird by posting their bull sh*t propangda.

I've always wondered weird, how can people who are not communists themselves fall in with communists and promote their aims, which is the destruction of representative government everywhere?


Yep, that right, i really want to kill representative govornment. Get this - 80% of the country or so doesnt want war? does that sounds representative to you? democracy is a stillborn child, this much is obvious.

quote:

Let's see weird, you don't see any fraud or irony in the communists being behind a peace and compassion movement? These are the people who put up walls to keep their citizens in, who have systematically killed 200 million of their own citizens in the Soviet Union, China, North Viet Nam and North Korea just for disagreeing with their government.

Right and you think I condone that sort of behaviour? Thats not a communist govornment, thats a dictatorship.

quote:

North Korea is in the process of starving their citizens to death, more than a million so far and China, improsions or executes their citizens who disagree or attempt to practice their religious beliefs.

Refer to my reply above. Although its interesting people who surpress religion and also people who push their religion fall into the same category, are we being a little generalised here?

quote:

I have to say weird, from my perspective, you're either a communist or an idiot. Take your pick.

But you're right about one thing. I AM entitled to my opinion. This is a free country and it's going to stay that way. And if you feel insulted, good, that was my intention. Expect more of the same if you continue to post BS that insults logic and reason.

jwhop


well, you dont have to read it.....

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weird purple sparkles
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 12:35 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i just thot i'd carry this reply over here too.

(WPS)I hope Im not taking liberties replying here as a newbie to this site but I felt so very strongly after allowing my eyes to gaze rapidly across this message getting the general jist of it and it's negativity. I didnt need to read each word, I think I would have been much more sickened as a sensitive as I didnt expect to come here and have to put up my gaurds. My reply is that this is YOUR reality. Many people here Ive read do not indulge in the Media NEWS,TV etc by choice. My mind is my playground, I choose what I fill it with. If you got informed on how you are creating your reality and how your reality is reflecting what's going on inside you, you would serve this world better by working on some serious wars going on inside yourself.
Just my thoughts on your post.

above was a quote from peganannie


wow. i really didn't mean to stir up such negativity, jwhop. peganannie, i notice you identify as pegan. the author of this piece is a woman named Starhawk who is a pegan and an activist. it is possible to balance spirituality with political action and concern.

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Alena
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 12:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oh boy.........

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proxieme
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 12:59 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yo - jwhop - not everyone's caught in 1958... if someone doesn't agree with you, they're not necessarily a "commie".

"You're a communist!"
Dear lawd.

Jwhop - I firmly believe that you're a good guy w/ firm beliefs, but it's a lot more becoming if you disagree w/ someone's statements rather than resort to a personal attack (and, looking at my commie statements above, I'm sortakinda being a hypocrit... ).
That is, if you say something to the effect of, "This statement is wrong, and this is why I think it is; here's my evidence, etc, etc," you tend to get people's hackles a lot less up than if you say something like, "Yooou're wrong and EVIL! You wish nothing for the world but death and destruction! You're heartless and only wish to see people die hideous deaths in bombs and napalm!" ... because, let's face it - if you say something like that, those who are anti-war will be inclined to shoot back w/ a comparable rant against you.

The fact is that those who are against this war think that think that an armed conflict in that area will result only in further unneccesary death and suffering (perhaps on all sides), and that there are better ways to go about resolving this dispute and working to restructure the politics of an area than through warfare. They hope and pray for peace, and will do all that they can to work for it.

AND

Those that are in favor of a war in that area generally think that Saddam's repressive and tyrannical regime is too far dug into the infrastructure for anything short of forceful removal and restructuring to be effective. Many have seen the suffering of the Iraqi people, and wish both to put an end to that suffering and ensure that no further harm comes to them, the people of the middle east, our allies, and ourselves.
They hope and pray for peace, and will do all that they can to work for it.

paganannie -
wps said that she didn't know where to post it; she's new, give her some leeway. And if you don't like something, don't read it - no one's forcing you to fill your head with anything. You could tell what this post was going to be 2 sentences in.

N_w -
The US cannot (legally) undertake specifically the assassination of a foriegn head of state. I mean, that hasn't stopped us before, we just can't go around advertising it. From what I understand, the alphabet soup of DC and surrounding evirons have been trying to bump Saddam off for some time, but it hasn't panned out.

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proxieme
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 01:21 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also:
I perceive you have not one clue as to why radical Islam is urging on the terrorists to act against the civilized nations. First, under their twisted reading of the Koran, we are all infidels and all infidels can be killed for no other reason than they are infidels.

We're mixing up causes here. The middle east isn't just a big ole' boiling pot of Islamic Fundamentalism. Iraq has been a historically secular state. The fundamentalism that has arisin is the result of a two-pronged offensive on the people of Iraq consisting of 1) the hardships and perceived persecution imposed upon those people by the sanctions and 2) the extreme hardship and repression inflicted by the Saddam regime (which, to be fair, is in large measure responsible for the resource shortages - although the sanctions have given Saddam something to work with).
Any union that may or may not exist between the Iraqi government and A.Q. is a marriage of convenience - just as was the one between OBL and the US when the Afgahns were fighting the Soviets.
The recently publicized "terrorist training camp" is in the northern part of the country - that is, that section controlled by the Kurds, our hypothetical allies (although it may or may not be used offensively against 'em...isn't our intel great?.

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paganannie
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 02:05 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Purple:I know of starhawk (didnt know female but that's neither here nor there) I found her speaches way too negative for me.
Here's a quote from the Dali lama from his speach which gained him a nobel peace prize in 1989. I prefer to hold him as a mentor as opposed to starhawk.
"because our every action has a universal dimension, a potenial impact on others’ happiness, ethics are necessary as a means to ensure that we do not harm others. Secondly, it tells us that genuine happiness consists in those spiritual qualities of love, compassion, patience, tolerance and forgiveness and so on. For it is these which provide both for our happiness and others’ happiness" I guess some people would accuse him of burying his head in the sand too.. oh well.
Gandhi also tried the peace protest thing unfortunately his ideals where not shared by all his followers and murder and mayhem ensued. Jesus also spoke the same words as the Dali Lama..
I am classed as pagan by others because of certain ideals I have, and because we need to identify ourselves to others via words it is the most accurate single word I can find.
apologees for any disharmony I spread.
I'll put me head back in the sand now

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proxieme
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 02:22 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aw, I'm sure you're a great person.
I'm sorry for getting all titchy.
I just get that way when I think that someone isn't giving another a chance to have their own opinions and ideals.
I see your point; but I also know that others see the best route to spreading peace to work actively against that which they see as opposing it.
"There are times when you have to obey a call which is highest of all - ie the voice of conscience, even though such obedience may cost many a bitter tear...for this obedience is the law of our being."
-M. Ghandi

But, still, your point is taken:
"The struggel with evil must not be carried on directly by force. If we do it the favor of fighting against it blow by blow, we lose in the end b/c thus we ourselves get entangled in hatred...The best way to fight is to make energetic progress in the good."
-I Ching

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Donna
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 03:24 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Starhawk is a radical who is trying in her way and belief system to make a difference. Although, I do not agree with her, in fact, I am really dis-illusioned by what she says. I see where she is going, I think. I sort of compare it to the witches who met and performed ritual to stop the invasion in WWII. She is a famous witch who has written several books on the craft.

This whole thing is such a hot topic and many are concerned because it has reached a point where the media is playing it up according to their beliefs, views and politics. Watching CNN is like listening to the liberal cause. Watching MSMBC is a mix. Watching Fox News is like listening to conservative views. So, it depends on which news channel one watches, how they form their opinions, and of course what opinions they lean toward in politcal views. I flip through all three.

But, the most offensive thing I have seen on the TV lately, is Susan Sarandan in her Antiwar commercial saying--"What I would like to ask, is what did Iraq do to us" in a whisper. Well, since that was aired, I admit, I cannot hardly watch any movie she is in.

Now, everyone has opinions and that is OK, but trying to force them on others using celebrity status is scary, at least to me.

The thing of it is, it is good to look at all sides and takes on this issue. It is not necessarily wrong to voice one's own opinion. Opinons can change as one becomes more informed or their views change for one reason or another.

The bottom line, everyone is concerned, frightened, we don't know what is going to happen, be just think we know. Some think war is going to happen, some think peace will prevail, but either way, it doesn't look good. So, people are talking and they get heated in their beliefs and feelings about this whole situation.

Donna

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N_wEvil
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 03:37 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
and threads on Forums get locked.....

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fishy
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 04:48 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lets get back to Astrology, and leave our
ELECTED officials to deal with war issues.
On this site we are all from different countries and cultures,at least here we can be friends.
love to all

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N_wEvil
unregistered
posted February 09, 2003 05:13 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I certainly didnt elect any of them and my whole beef with the system is that they're doing such a crap job..

...but yep, this isnt really the place to discuss it.

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Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 4782
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 09, 2003 09:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sort of a liberal conservative. I understand both sides. While I am all for Peace, I do see some merit in the US as a Protector of the world. It's a huge responsibility, and it's one that we, as a nation, often fail at.

I am proud of my country. I usually support my leaders, even though many of them hardly deserve it at times. And I see nothing wrong with anyone feeling the same way about their own culture and nation. But, despite my patriotism (and no matter how "noble" the cause is made out to be or how "humanitarian" the goals), none of this talk of war would be happening at all if the main export of Iraq was broccoli.

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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theFajita3
unregistered
posted February 10, 2003 12:24 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Weird purple sparkles is entitled to their opinion too and that doesn't make them an idiot. Nor does your make you an idiot Jwhop.

No ones opinion makes them an idiot!

------------------
Food is the only art that nourishes!

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aquamoon
unregistered
posted February 11, 2003 02:20 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Randall, I like how you express your opinions without hurting people's sentiments. It's probably my Libra ascendent , but it just ticks me off that some people think they and their opinions are just so much cooler than the rest of us morons that they can crap all over us.

Sparkles, I hope you are not going to be afraid to express yourself here again seeing how some people are incapable of accepting an opinion for what it is - an opinion .
I too made the mistake of being idealistic enough to think everyone who comes here just has to be enlightened enough to believe in healthy debate, respect each other and their differences of opinion blah blah blah but I woke up soon enough. You will learn to love this place as I have when you realise that there's more acceptance and humility here than nuts as fanatical as Saddam in their thinking that theirs is the only opinion that matters.

And, I don't think I've had the opportunity to say - WELCOME to Lindaland! You will find much love here.

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theFajita3
unregistered
posted February 11, 2003 02:27 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Word

------------------
Food is the only art that nourishes!

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Annie Kuzma
unregistered
posted February 11, 2003 08:17 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Temple Mount area should be "International Area" ran by the U.N.(like)commitee.Like a Round Table of the religions concerned.So people feel free and safe to visit and worship.The energy there should be owned not by one faith.
Then the areas around it should be set up as different homelands.i.e. Isreal, Palestine.
Making sure all contries are on the same economic track.i.e. tourism,schools.
God Bless America!
God Bless Isreal, and God Bless Palestine!!
We have to pray for the Best thing to happen for all!!
Iraq and the whole Islam word thinks of us a Satan,lets pray that whatever we do, we show them we are only concerned for the security of the world, of All peoples and faiths.
Just by using the internet, we are blending ideas and faiths.
God Bless the internet!!
Peace,Love and Light.....

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Harpyr
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Alaska
Registered: Jun 2010

posted February 14, 2003 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At first I almost replied with the intent of picking apart all the holes in jwhop's insulting, propaganda-filled attack but decided against it because anyone with eyes can see those flawed arguments for themselves.

What I do want to point out though, ( Please don't take this as an attack, just pointing out something that may be of interest to you, Donna) was the assertation that CNN is 'liberal', msnbc 'moderate and fox conservative. I'm sorry but all of those stations are only reporting what is in the corporate interests of their owners. I highly recommend getting a dose of independent media if you want to have a balanced view of world events. ALOT of VERY IMPORTANT news goes unreported by those giant media conglomerates.
Example:
"MEDIA BOMBMAKING
From the Brown Daily Herald:


'WOULD IT SURPRISE YOU TO HEAR that General Electric of light bulb fame owns the major commercial network NBC? Most likely not. Would it surprise you to hear that GE is a major producer of nuclear bombs and reactors? Possibly not. Would it surprise you if GE's ownership of NBC had any impact on the way the news is reported to the public? I hope not. '

Think about it. Hard.

THIS is what deregulation and media consolidation bring us: the same company that profits from war, is the company that feeds us our news. I want you for one moment to sit back and think about how "war news" is presented. Think about how it is marketed, and how every network has developed a memorable meme and logo for war. They've even devised...da da dum...a "jingle" or tune that plays in the background of our fear. War has become commercialized...it's a product they're trying to convince us we want. War will be very profitable for some in the American media.

The Brown Herald thinks that most Americans probably know of NBC's unpleasant connection to weapons of mass destruction. I would venture to guess the Brown Herald is wrong. I'd bet the ranch that more than 90% of the people in the US are unaware that GE produces bombs and reactors.

Think about it." http://www.ruminatethis.com/archives/000902.html

Okay, also I want to stand up a bit for Starhawk here. I don't completely agree with the assertation that what she writes is negative. Perhaps one would think that if all they had read of her was her online essays. Most of those are about her activism and trying to bring to light the direness of the situation we are in right now. But if you read her books, there is plenty of positive things in them. The classic, 'Spiral Dance' is a great introduction to the tradition of wicca she is in, Reclaiming. It's one that I ascribe myself to as well.
But if you are into the political activism scene then her latest book, "webs of power: notes from the global uprising" is a superb read. Especially the second half of the book which is quite positive in the visions of a sustainable community she puts forth.
Perhaps this isn't the conventional forum to speak about these sort of things but the fact is, this is a pivotal time in history and we all need to wake up to our responsibilty to the global community and stop 'leaving' things to our elected offials. Thats what got us into this mess. As citizens of the world, we have a responsibility to take a more active role in that community, otherwise we are doomed.

I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said that when the government fears the people, there will be liberty but when the people fear the government, there will be tyranny.

I for one am afraid.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 14, 2003 08:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Harpyr

Let's see how good your eyes are. Why don't you post the flaws in the comments I made that "anyone with eyes could see"?

jwhop

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Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a