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Author Topic:   This is war!
Dreamflake
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posted March 27, 2003 05:41 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Alena
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posted March 27, 2003 05:48 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Miracle
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posted March 28, 2003 10:02 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dearest Lost Leo & Alena,

I felt it was a necessity for me to stand up in defence (British spelling) of Dreamflake and although I try to keep my arguing here in Lindaland on a minimum, I shall certainly stand as a shield for Dremflake here!

Please endeavour to read what I have to say with an open heart and please don't take it personally, but My-S-Elf feels obliged to protest against everything you have written in this post.

Dreamflake named the post THIS IS WAR! - and rightfully so. Those pictures and text are showing what is happening in Iraq NOW. What happened in New York in September 2001 was certainly one of the darkest, most evil moments humanity has ever had to face. It was horrible, yes. It deserves every condemnation, yes. It will certainly never be forgotten - absolutely. But, it was not war. It was a terrorist attack.

That's why I remain convinced that LL's post about 11/09/01 was GROSSLY misplaced when it was put here.

Why did I think that LL's post was TRAGICALLY misplaced?

Because, contrary to what you may believe, I actually spent a lot of time thinking and praying about the victims of the 11/09/01 - which is proven by the many lexis I've done about that event.

Coming here today again made me remember them (and all victims of violence, war and terror) and I actually thought to my-S-Elf: How would I feel today if I were in the Twin Towers in New York that day?

Let me tell you, Alena and Lost Leo, I would feel outraged, sad, disappointed, angry and let down - to realise that someone (like you two) could use my tragedy and memory of me AS AN EXCUSE FOR AMERICAN AND BRITISH SLAUGHTERING OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT IRAQIS AND AFGHANS.

Not in my name.

Foolishly assuming that by slaughtering so many innocent lives we will save ourselves from nuclear weapons? Or that we would make this world a safer place? Or that we would diminish terrorism? What pathetic excuses, Mr Bush & Mr Blair, you are insulting my intelligence.

But I guess to some people, for going to war, any excuse they can be persuaded to believe is good enough.

Well not for me. I WILL ALWAYS PROTEST AGAINST WAR. ANYWHERE. ANYTIME. AND AGAINST TERRORISM, I hasten to add.

Alena, you hurt my feelings with all your posts. The fact that you can insinuate such rubbish and suggest that people can inflict such horrible wounds on themselves as shown on the photographs... leads me to conclude that: you never gave Dreamflake's post any attention. Because had you gone through the pictures and read the text, you'd never have written something like that! EVER.

I am ashamed to be sharing a site with you. But I will not give up - comforted by the thought that, if Linda Goodman were alive today, she'd be standing right here beside us opposing this preposterous invasion of Iraq.

Lastly, I AM not anti-American, and don't you even dare assume something of a sort! But I certainly am against everything Alena and Lost Leo have posted here.

The USA has some great GREAT people and perhaps this is a good time to remember some of them:

Ms Jody Williams and Ms Mairead Corrigan McGuire - Nobel Prize Winners, Europe does hear of your heroic acts. I love you.

And Dreamflake, well done once again. It's such a privilege that, on my journey to the Light of the full-born Wisdom, I met you.

PEACE. FOREVER AND A DAY.

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Alena
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posted March 28, 2003 10:49 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Miracle,

What is the definition of war? A state of armed conflict, hostility etc between opposing forces. Well guess what, I consider what the terrorists did on 9/11 as an act of war. They being the ones who declared war on the US. Let me ask you a question Miracle, do you think Al Qaida wouldve have stopped at 9/11, I mean if the US did not take any action? It was not just in the names of the victims of 9/11 that we attacked Afghanistan. Something similar wouldve been done again by terrorists if we had done nothing. War is terrible, horrible and pure hell for all involved. Innocent lives are lost every time. Oh and by the way just the other day on the news they interviewed a victim's mother from September 11th. She agreed with the action the US government has taken, as she does not want to see 9/11 happen all over again. (her son was on Flight 93) ............also you misconstrued what I said about Al Jazeera (sp?). I did not mean that the people in those photos inflicted themselves. I meant that they couldve been inflicted by their own government. Not that we don't have our own propaganda in the US, but Al Jazeera is well known for it's own...in the most grotesque form. I did read through all the captions and look at all the pictures on the website Dreamflake linked. I was not attacking her. I know full well why she posted it. She wanted to share the horrors of war and say she doesn't want anything like that to happen to anyone in the future. Part of my point in what I posted was this....they show pictures of Iraqi victims of war (soldiers) but why not American soldiers that were killed, why not pictures of the American soldiers that were held as POW's and the evidence in pictures of the severe beatings they received at the hands of their captors. One was interviewed the other night on TV and said at one point he hoped they would just kill him it was so bad. The point I'm making is that, do they show any pictures on that site of US soldiers maimed or killed during WWII while trying to help free Europe. Where are the pictures of the Americans? I did not say that anyone on this website was anti American. What I said was that I have a feeling of anti American sentiment from many people in this country and also from abroad. Again you took the post personally on that note and I have to ask why. By the way, they also talk about when Britain bombed Germany. Didn't see any mention of how Germany was trying to take over the country and bombing them frequently. Why? They showed victims of our (US)attack on Afghanistan but not of victims from the World Trade Center or Pentagon etc. That was my whole point, but apparently you missed it. Last but not least I'd like to thank you for saying you are ashamed to be sharing a site with me. If that's truly the case please do not respond to any of my posts anymore and I will return the favor.

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Lost Leo
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posted March 28, 2003 12:13 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"SLAUGHTERING OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT IRAQIS AND AFGHANS"

1) You are wrong, the death count has not risen above one thousand yet, don't exaggerate to give your statement more impact, it works retroactively to make it seem futile

2) And almost all of that death count are armed enemy combatants...

Not hundred of thousands of civilians

Give me a break you are so off

So you're defending your countrymen in here... Answer me this???

Did we slaughter all the Serbians who WERE committing ethic cleansing & about to take over your country?
LOL, Get some perspective!!!

ABOUT 9/11: Don't EVER tell me you feel for our country!!!! You have NO CLUE the impact of an attack on the US soil. We, as Americans DO NOT expect ANY ATTACK... EVER!

And we will do whatever we DAMN WELL PLEASE TO PROTECT OURSELVES!

To sum up... you have no international perspective in my book, & you sit in this isolated little corner of the world which has no real impact on anything.

I'll use Frederick Hegel to conclude,
Like the Etruscans your civilization will be tossed aside, only a worldly historic civilization matters, because the farthest evolved has incorporated all of the previous historical civilizations, Ancient Egypt & China, then to Ancient Greece, then Ancient Rome, then to Arab-Muslim World, then the France during Enlightenment, then to England, and then to the United States.

We are the historically signicant power of this age, no one has superceded us, so we will do WHATEVER we feel is in our best interest in this world, we own it!

And overall, we are looking out for the betterment of the world...

I mean we want to set up a democracy not an authoritarian regime, we are the Great Philanthropists!

I mean look at the US Cabinet, it is comprised of ALL Political Scientists; Powell, Rice, Cheney, etc....

We are trying to change the world for the better, & my heart goes out to the people who cannot see the bigger vision.

The US is remaking THE WHOLE WORLD in this era, we are taking it to the next level, Hegel would say we are advancing human civilization to a higher echelon of sophistication & success.

So broaden YOUR horizon & come out of your corner to see the light, we are doing this for ALL!

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Harpyr
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Alaska
Registered: Jun 2010

posted March 28, 2003 12:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So, Lost Leo, can I take that last post to mean that you are in support of United States imperialism?

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Miracle
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posted March 28, 2003 01:28 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like your nick, LOST LEO. It speaks volumes about you. Both words.

Alena, have read your post and noted the last sentence. Will respect your wish.

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Alena
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posted March 28, 2003 01:55 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Miracle.........good to know a moderator can throw such insults around

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Lost Leo
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posted March 28, 2003 01:57 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
H, Imperialists that are going to let the people form a gov't of their own, made by the people for the people... Doesn't sound imperialistic?

D, Thanx, I like my nick too, it gives me a sense of humility

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Harpyr
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Alaska
Registered: Jun 2010

posted March 28, 2003 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
it gives me a sense of humility

*snort* yeaaahh..you exude humility LL..

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Aphrodite
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posted March 28, 2003 03:00 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just an observation, the majority of people arguing on this thread have Leo sun, moon or rising.

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Harpyr
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Alaska
Registered: Jun 2010

posted March 28, 2003 04:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah...we're damned obstinate aren't we!

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Oxychick
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posted March 28, 2003 04:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This Leo Moon is opting to stay out of it.

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Alena
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posted March 28, 2003 05:51 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think there are quite a few people out there who may be misreading my posts and also what I stand for. To clear up some confusion that may or may not exist.........This is an impression I have, it seems the world watches the US like hawks waiting to swoop down on any mistakes they believe we have made or slightest foible committed even if it is erroneous. When France sent troops to the Ivory Coast I don't remember the whole world taking to the streets for protests on military action or intervention. Nope, this doesn't make the frontpage of world headlines. I don't ever really hear of any country saying good things about us, even after we've tried to help them out of a jam. US bashing is all I hear about, no matter what subject it is or so it seems to me. The President could trip and fall in public and guess what, it would probably be a headline all over the world and in some cases on the front page. I see websites with pictures of the atrocities of war but no Americans. I often wonder if it's because no matter what happens to us people think we don't deserve any type or display of sympathy. Sure many people were sympathetic on 9/11 and the days following but also many people were cheering in the streets because so many of us were killed(even right here).As for the issue of violence and peaceful means to solve the problem of Iraq...........I'm sure everyone agrees that Saddam and his regime is evil and shouldn't be in power, for those that don't I'd have to say, quite plainly, that you are out of your mind. Many people hoped that a coup would start in that country and he'd be overthrown. But even if that did happen, it would be violent. Innocent men, women and children would be killed. Why? Because there is as much of a chance of Saddam being peaceful or diplomatic as there is that I'm going to win the lottery tomorrow. But of course we get involved and it's all about oil and power. There's nothing at all noble about any american intention. I could go on about the WMD and how it's a threat but I'll leave it on that.......As for Al Qaida...........I have to equate it with an analogy, if someone killed several members of your family and would be coming back soon to kill more of them, what would you do? Wait and do nothing, try to resolve it by peaceful means or contact local law enforcement. I'm sure most of you would contact the police. So what should we have done to deal with terrorists who wouldve been back to kill more "evil" Americans? But hey, we have no one to call!! We are the only ones who can stop it. Yeah, and Osama and his group are about as peaceful as Saddam and his regime........Alot of middle eastern countries hate us, most of the governments spew such hatred of us and blame the plight of their people on us. It's not to say that our country never does anything wrong, sure, we have corrupt government on both sides of the liberals and republicans and everything in between them. ..........oh and I never called ***anyone*** on this board anti-american. Obviously all these issues are not easily resolved or debated. I don't think I am right all the time either. If anyone on this board believes that they are 100% in the right all the time on any of these issues you are just arrogant/ignorant. The only one who knows for sure what the right answer is to all of this is our creator.

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Dreamflake
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posted March 28, 2003 06:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gee, we've all gone too far!

Hey, let's all stop being a puppets of any of this world's leaders, let's turn to our real selves and start believing we all have a pleasant, secure and comfort place uppon our beautiful Universe and the only way to achieve this is through a strong, daily faith and self-development!

I don't give a s*** about any of our presidents, premier ministers or whomever. I believe that John and Jane Doe are the biggest and the most brilliant people in the world.

Miracle, you are my miracle and you keep reminding me of the miracle within my heart daily. Thank you!

LostLeo, I pray your anger goes out of your body and soul and hurts noone, if possible. I hope you'll hug a child within you and be proud of this child's purity.

Alena, I feel your heart quite a lot, keep it warm! I can feel your tendency to be confused from time to time, but I strongly stand by your intuition - shut your ears and enjoy the symphony!

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Miracle
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posted March 28, 2003 07:06 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dreamflake - yet again absolutely right.

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Lost Leo
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posted March 28, 2003 07:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dreamflake, if what I say is coming across as anger to you then you may a bit too soft to be debating me.

When I'm angry you will know, lol

Harpyr... WhaaaaT? You don't think I'm humility incarnate? I thought you'd get a kick outta the earlier comment

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Alena
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posted March 28, 2003 08:12 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(steps off soap box) all I have to say now is.................whatever

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