posted November 13, 2004 06:44 AM              

It's always dangerous when anyone in government thinks they know for sure what God's will is. As far as I can be certain of what God's will is, is by what Jesus said and did. Jesus told us to love one another as he has loved us. Everything that Jesus told us we were to do in this world was based on love. So if our actions are loved based we can be pretty sure we are doing God's will even without being aware of it. I personally don't see this war as being love based.

The consolation that we have, Ozone, is that in spite of the things that men do, God is in charge. God's will, will be done in spite of what we do to interfere with it.

We have to work towards getting these guys, Robinson and Falwell, out of government. Mainly because they belong to a group called the Council for National Policy. Which means they fully intend to set the national policy. NOT when it effects me and my family and everyone else's they're not. I don't happen to believe in their version of religion. So I have no intention of allowing it to effect policies of this government that will directly effect me and my family. Especially if we have a president who listens to them when it comes to government policy which always effects us and the world. Many of the things which Bush has done that he says are "faith based inititives" have either come very close to or crossed the line of separation of church and state. The way I see it, he took an oath to UPHOLD the Constitution of the U.S. and if he isn't going to remain true to that oath then he needs to be impeached for being in violation of it. That oath does not just apply to war or defense. It applies to all he does.

I'm happy that a president has faith and I think it's great that he prays for guidance and goes to church. But that should be the limit of it when it comes to government and doing his job. If he is sincere in his faith and love of God it will automatically be reflected in the decisions he makes. If he is going to let a warped interpretation of the book of Revelations determine government policy and the influence of those who follow that warped interpretation intefere with government policy then they all have to go. Reason? Because everything they do has an effect on our lives and this whole planet.

posted November 13, 2004 06:58 AM              

This was on MSNBC's website for Nov. 11:
Ohio— The recount of 2004 (David Shuster)

This afternoon, I spoke with Blair Bobier, the attorney/spokesman for David Cobb, the Green Party's 2004 candidate for President. Bobier confirms that the press release floating on the net <http://www.gp.org/press/pr_11_11_04.html> is legitimate. The Green Party is combining forces with the Libertarian Party to seek a statewide election recount in Ohio.
Unlike Florida in 2000, Ohio's recount rules are straightforward and specific. Once the Ohio vote is certified, which I'm told could happen as early as next week, the Green/Libertarian group will have five days to file a formal application for statewide recount. In addition, the group must then deposit $10 for every precinct to be recounted.
Based on the number of precincts in Ohio, a statewide recount will cost the Green/Libertarian group about $110,000. However, the group expects to raise that money "rather easily" within the next few days.
Once the recount application has been filed, the recount itself must begin within 10 days. So, expect to see the formal recount kick-off in early December.
Again, the procedures in Ohio are quite clear: The recount must be conducted by teams having equal numbers of Democrats and Republicans; records must be available for visual inspection by witnesses; ballots must be handled only by members of the board; witnesses may observe the inspection the ballots; punch card ballots must be inspected for hanging chads ("if a chad is attached by three or four corners, a vote shall not be counted for that particular candidate.") and etc. The lengthy list of rules and procedures are available on the Ohio Secretary of State's Web site <http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/elections/index.html>.
Whether you agree with a recount or not... the rules are the rules. And even a candidate like David Cobb, who received a total of 24 votes in Ohio, is entitled to a recount. So, let us all hope the process in the Buckeye state will be orderly, calm, and litigation free.
Pre-recount, here is where the Ohio vote total stands:
President Bush (Republican Party) 2,796,147
John Kerry (Democratic Party) 2,659,664
Badnarik (Libertarian) 14,331
Peroutka (Constitutional) 11,614
My friend and colleague Keith Olbermann has been all over this story </id/6210240/>.
On Friday night, "Hardball with Chris Matthews" (7 p.m. and 11 p.m. ET) will be jumping into the fray. You won't want to miss that. Plus, this weekend here on Hardblogger, I'll be posting some amazing national election numbers and demographic trends that may shock you. I've run some of the numbers past a few MSNBC political analysts, and everybody is calling it "a big deal."
Questions/comments: DShuster@msnbc.com <maimailto:dShuster@msnbc.com>

Looks like either way we will be having a recount in Ohio. This news has reached all the major media and the White House. Whatever comes of it we should be getting some election reforms and new guidelines. And eliminating the electronic voting machines and anything else that does not leave a paper trail. I think Americans have made it quite clear we don't have confidence in the voting system that Bush put into place.

Am I hoping that the recount shows that Kerry actually won the state of Ohio? You bet! But if not at least there will be Congressional hearings and new election guidelines and reform. And Diebold can stick to automatic bank teller machines. Diebold claimed they couldn't give a receipt in their voting machines but they also make automatic teller machines at banks that give a receipt.

posted November 13, 2004 02:36 PM            

I hope that all is well with you Harpyr!

posted November 13, 2004 07:47 PM            

But the thing is(and I would like to make this clear for what I've studied in the Bible), alot of people have this misconception on what exactly it's going to be like during the second coming of the "Son of man"(and to the Jews, it will be his first), he isn't going to be what he was like during the last time he was here on Earth, Jesus stated clearly that NOBODY will know when he comes,"not even the angels in Heaven will know, but ONLY the Father in Heaven will know the coming of the 'Son of Man' be", we all have better chances of winning the lottery then to perdict the second coming, but Jesus gave us alot of hints to decipher from that are sure signs that will indicate to us when that will be. One those sure signs will be is when that out of the chaos will appear a great man that do many great things for the world, will bring about world peace, will all the world's inhabitants happy and grateful, the economy will NOT only boom in a certain country, but through out the whole world, all wars will come to an end and he will state to us that he is the "Son of Man", he will also do great miracles for all and he will even know us personally by name, nobody will ever doubt him, he will even deceive the "elect" , etc, etc, etc... But from what the Bible tells us is that the real Jesus won't even do these such things, the ONLY thing that Jesus will do is sneak down to Earth and sweep up his "elect" in all four corners of the world and not even the ones that get swept, won't even realize it until all things have past, he is ONLY returning to the world for one thing and one thing only, to save the one's souls that believe in him and take the time NOT to be fooled by Satan and his wonderous works, "for they are all lies", then the "wrath" of God will come as the Archangel Michael and will destroy Satan, his angels and those who follow Satan and will bound them ALL for a 1000 years to come!

posted November 14, 2004 05:48 PM              

Well, the combination of having just seen Farenheit 9/11 for the first time and reading this thread is not stirring a lot of happy feelings about our administration right now.

posted November 14, 2004 09:30 PM              

When she would tell me how it was going to happen I would ask her how she knew that? Revelations of course was her answer. I would remind her that Jesus didn't come as the Jews figured he would the first time and they also thought they had it all figured out. So Jesus ended up getting crucified. Then I asked her what if they are wrong and he doesn't come the second time just as they figured, do you think that maybe Jesus will end up getting crucified all over again? Of course she had no answer for that. I told her that if Jesus should come back as a woman the Roman Catholic Church, my faith, would be in big trouble because women aren't allowed to be priests and Jesus is considered the High Priest in the church. Imagine how they would accept Jesus, the High Priest, as a woman in a male dominated heirarchy.

We are on the same wavelength on this one,Ozone. He did say he would come back "as a thief in the night" and "the hour and time is unknown by all but God." Which is why it grates on me that Pat Robinson and the Religious Right have the arrogance and pomposity to even suggest they could "hasten the second coming of Jesus."

I do not believe in "The Rapture" either. Though if others do that is fine. But to me the concept that a group of "the elite" would be taken up on a cloud while the rest of mankind suffers is in fact, an elitest and exclusive concept and when was Jesus ever elitest or exclusive? I believe we are all in this together and it will be all of us or none of us.

But I must confess when I see what the Religious Right, Pat Robinson and Jerry Falwell are doing to this country and democracy, and doing it in the name of God and Christianity, I not only hope in The Rapture I feel it can't happen any too soon. Maybe once they are all taken up on a cloud we can restore democracy and world peace and brotherhood.

Funniest T-Shirt I ever saw had the saying, "The Day After The Rapture" on it and there was a picture of a milk carton with a lot of people on it saying, "Have you seen us?"

posted November 15, 2004 09:29 AM              

BREAKING -- SATURDAY NOV 13 2004: Black Box Voting has launched a fraud audit into Florida. Three investigators (Bev Harris, Andy Stephenson, and Kathleen Wynne) are in Florida right now. We will initiate hand counts on selected counties that have not fully complied with our Nov. 2 Freedom of Information request by Monday (Diebold counties) or Tuesday (other counties).

BREAKING -- SATURDAY NOV 13 2004: We have reports that both David Cobb (Green Party) and Michael Badnarik (Libertarian Party) will be filing for official recounts in Ohio. Black Box Voting is also launching a fraud audit in Ohio. Gotta be replaced: Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell. Please invoke the following name change on Blackwell immediately, as he is 2004's Katherine Harris. He should now be referred to at all times as "Katherine Blackwell." Please retain this moniker for any future runs for governor. How to be your own media. Spread the word. Latest Katherine Blackwell outrage: Failure to properly account for provisional ballots, and refusing to allow citizens to see the pollbooks.

BREAKING -- SATURDAY NOV 13 2004: Black Box Voting is implementing fraud diagnostics on the state of New Mexico. Information we recently received is indicative of widespread vote manipulation. We are not going to publicize the specifics here.

BREAKING -- SATURDAY NOV 13 2004: Black Box Voting is requesting legal assistance for a specific county in Georgia. Indications of corrupt voting processes, with possible criminal actions by local officials.

BREAKING -- SATURDAY NOV 13 2004: Black Box Voting is launching a fraud investigation on Pima County Arizona.

BREAKING -- SATURDAY NOV 13 2004: Black Box Voting is launching a fraud investigation on the state of Nevada. Pro bono legal help certified to practice in Nevada, needed immediately. Multiple irregularities. Need people to take affidavits from election workers, statewide.

BREAKING -- FRIDAY NOV 12 2004: Ralph Nader to audit Diebold machines in New Hampshire. According to Nader, the current situation with voting machines warrants investigation. Several elements make voting machines "probative" for investigation, according to Nader, a consumer affairs lawyer: proprietary ownership, secret code, vested interests, a high-value reward, and lack of any real consequences, or likelihood of getting caught, for vote manipulation. "We are told that shenanigans are just politics," said Nader at a press conference on Nov. 10. "Well, it's not politics. It's taking away people's votes."

SUNDAY Nov. 7 2004: Freedom of Information requests at http://www.blackboxvoting.org have unearthed two Ciber certification reports indicating that security and tamperability was NOT TESTED and that several state elections directors, a secretary of state, and computer consultant Dr. Britain Williams signed off on the report anyway, certifying it. Scroll down for more.

SATURDAY NOV 13 2004:

What is a fraud audit?
A fraud audit is not the same as a recount. It does not presume innocence. It does not make the assumption that if there is an anomaly with a benign explanation, it's okay to stop investigating. Any embezzler (or vote manipulator) worth his salt will build in an explanation that makes it sound like it could be an honest mistake, or a "glitch." Any investigator worth his salt knows you have to look deeper.

Forensic auditing begins with indicators, like oddball statistics, mismatched records, or secretive, obstructive behavior. The next step is to obtain diagnostic documents. Later steps may include pulling all the ballots for hand recounts.

Bev Harris, founder of Black Box Voting, has interfaced with law enforcement, including the FBI, state attorneys-general, the IRS, local police, and banking authorities, in several previous investigations during her work as an investigative writer. Her methods for isolating fraud have resulted in convictions or settlements from embezzlers and financial fraudsters. Black Box Voting is the first publicly funded, independent consumer protection group to investigate this election using forensic auditing methods.

Irresponsible media
You may have seen recent stories in the media (ABC News, Salon.com), and at other voting integrity Web sites like VerifiedVoting.org, telling you there is no reason to believe suspicions of fraud in the 2004 election. In fact, no member of the media nor any organization has done any real forensic auditing to determine whether there was or was not fraud. Trust in our electoral process is critical to our democracy. We need the right kind of investigation into anomalies, using appropriate methods.

"Feel-good" statements, dismissive of real concerns into voting integrity, are not responsible. The truth is what it is. We might see something very uncomfortable unfold during these investigations. Or, maybe not. It's still too early to tell, but the evidence is mounting.

Snoopy 50-year-old women
Think of this like an assets investigation in a bad divorce: One party may have things to hide, the other party (we, the voters) wants to find out the truth. If you are looking for hidden assets owned by your ex, you don't call in a computer scientist from a university. You enlist the help of private investigators, accountants, lawyers, and your plain old common sense. In fact, snoopy 50-year-old women have proved invaluable in investigating voting machines.

This is not a computer problem. It is not something a reporter who spends four hours researching a story can pronounce judgment on. We have been surprised to see prominent scientists announcing "results" before the data is in. We don't know what happened on Nov. 2. We will find out.

Here's what Black Box Voting is doing to investigate appropriately:
We are doing forensic analysis of the available evidence. We are targeting specific locations based on criteria indicative of fraud.

Why we can't disclose our documents yet

Initially, we hoped to have everything public all the time. This resulted in butt-covering behavior on the part public officials, which hampered our investigations. Therefore, we adjusted our methods to keep critical investigations under wraps. That's just the way it has to be right now.

Isn't it too late?

We are dealing with well financed people who are trying to run out the clock. They probably will succeed in that. However, we probably will succeed in proving fraud. What we have going for us is this:

- Public outrage: We read your letters and hear your anguish on the phone. Do not let go of those emotions. Your job is to focus those emotions into stubborn, relentless, nonstop pressure to make sure that there will be consequences for any and all electoral fraud.

- Law enforcement. There are still plenty of honest cops. Also, in our experience, different law enforcement agencies don't always get along, and where one fails us, another may not.

- We have the courts. (Somewhat.) Not all judges are unfriendly. They vote too. We can follow the example of tobacco industry lawsuits, launching many lawsuits, then sharing discovery and strategy until at last, we prevail.

- We have the media (barely). Network TV has not yet been able to get its brain around the story of electoral betrayal in a 2-minute news byte. For the time being, you must be your own "network TV." Don't count on TV to spread the word. Instead count on America's spirit of self reliance. We will prevail. Be the media.

- We have the Internet. Use it to share information at every level -- instant messaging, e-mailing, listservs, blogs, forums, Web sites, announcements, online media, online documents, film and video clips, audio clips, and any way that you can imagine to use it effectively. The Internet allows us to respond without boundaries, quickly, in unpredictable ways.

posted November 15, 2004 10:49 AM              

I don't think its so unpredicatable. Jesus said nobody knows not the hour.

He did give lots of signs, the second coming may not be in person even but start of a new age. I think the earth would be ascended and aligned to something.

But then what about the prophesy of Zechariah. That the mount of olive would split. Theres a major earthquake bound to happen any time on that mount. I posted this in the thread "Bush Wins".

posted November 15, 2004 11:22 AM              

quote:

---

Initially, we hoped to have everything public all the time. This resulted in butt-covering behavior on the part public officials, which hampered our investigations. Therefore, we adjusted our methods to keep critical investigations under wraps. That's just the way it has to be right now.

---

Good thinking! Good thinking!

I'm hanging in....

posted November 18, 2004 03:22 AM            

Locusts From North Africa Swarm Through Cairo
By PAUL GARWOOD, AP

CAIRO, Egypt (Nov. 17) - In an echo of the biblical plagues, millions of locusts swarmed into northern Egypt on Wednesday for the first time in 50 years, prompting authorities to order emergency pesticide spraying to protect the region's important agriculture industry.

Clouds of the red insects, up to 2 3/4 inches long, flitted about over Cairo, while others hopped around on rooftops. By evening, the skies were clear.

Christian Pantenius, program coordinator of the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization office in Egypt, said the swarm was an offshoot of a serious locust infestation in West Africa that was blown by strong winds across the Sahara. He said locusts also were spotted in Crete and Lebanon.

Pantenius said the locusts were showing no sign of moving farther south along the agriculturally rich Nile River valley, and he predicted the swarm most likely would head southeast toward the Red Sea coast, which is an annual locust breeding ground between November and March.

Locusts, which normally live between two and six months, eat their weight - about 0.07 ounces - in crops every day. They can travel as much as 120 miles in a day.

''People are very afraid that it may cause damage to agricultural production, but to what extent the agricultural sector could be damaged is difficult to say,'' Pantenius told The Associated Press.

Agriculture Minister Ahmed el-Leithy said the locusts appeared to pose no serious threat to Egypt's crops ''because the swarms are continuing to move and are not fully grown.'' But he said 50 pest eradication teams had been rushed out to spray pesticides in farm areas.

Farmers without pesticides set smoky fires and made loud noises with machinery in hopes of keeping locusts away from their fields.

The FAO described the insect clouds as a ''medium density swarm of locusts numbering several million, if not a billion,'' covering several square miles.

Pantenius said it was the first time locusts in such numbers had hit the region around Cairo since the 1950s. Small numbers of the ravenous insects were spotted in Egypt during a locust plague that struck countries from eastern to western African in 1986-89.

The swarms in the late 1980s were West Africa's most serious outbreak until this year's infestation. Huge swarms are still present in Mauritania and Niger, but the insects have also moved northward in search of food in the Maghreb region of North Africa, which includes Morocco and Algeria.

The FAO said big locust outbreaks like that now afflicting western and northern Africa generally last for several years.

AP-NY-11-17-04 17:56 EST

posted November 18, 2004 09:44 AM              

The latest news regarding the election and I hear nothing about this on the news and very little in the newspaper. Such is life under fascism. Bush deliberately scheduled the invasion of Fallujah until right after the election to take attention off of the election. Watch my right hand so you don't see what my left hand is doing is his motto. At any rate, there is definitely going to be a recount in Ohio. The Green Party and the Libertarian Party called for a recount - only candidates can get a recount- and they raised enough money to pay for it. Nader is getting his recount in New Hampshire.

Regarding the Ohio count, I got the following email from Common Cause and would like you guys to sign the petition requesting that Sec. of State Blackwell keep out of the recount which will done by a non-partisan group. The email also informs about Congressional and Common Cause investigations into voter problems. Please copy and pass the petition on. Both my husband and I signed the petition because we are hardly going to get a true count with Blackwell in the picture. He's a Republican wannabe appointed to a higher position jerk.

I'm writing to inform you that we are working with Members of Congress and other organizations to put together a special report to the nation on December 7, 2004. We want to make sure the public has as much information as possible about the problems that occurred on Election Day, as witnessed first hand by groups with on-the-ground field operations.

By now, some of you may know that there has been a request for a recount of all votes cast in the presidential race in Ohio. Common Cause and several other organizations are supporting that request. It is not our expectation that a recount will change the outcome of the election, nor is that outcome the intent of this effort. However, we believe that it is imperative in a democracy that every citizen's vote is counted.

While we are pushing to make sure that all votes are counted in Ohio we need you to help us out in a number of ways:

First, we need to make sure that any recount process in Ohio is totally free of the taint of partisanship. Partisan supervision of elections has undermined voter confidence in our electoral process. Therefore we are calling on Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, who led President Bush's re-election efforts in Ohio, and whose partisanship in this election drew comparisons to Katherine Harris in Florida, to remove himself from the recount process. We are asking you to join us in signing our nationwide petition requesting that Secretary of State Blackwell remove himself from any and all recount-related procedures. We must ensure any recount is pure and not left open to accusations of partisanship, which tainted the process in Florida in 2000:

Sign our petition to keep Ohio recount nonpartisan!
www.commoncause.org/DemandPureOhioRecount

So please sign our petition and forward it to everyone you know so that we can help erase any doubt about the integrity of the vote recount process in Ohio.

Second, if you live in Ohio and if you have not done so already, please be sure to fill out our voter experience form . Help us collect information on whether you faced problems while voting - such as long lines or trouble with provisional or absentee ballots - or if you had difficulties with your registration process or using voting equipment, such as optical scanners or punch cards. Please also use this form to let us know if you witnessed or experienced problems with challengers at polling stations or any other voter suppression efforts in Ohio.

We are pleased to inform you that Common Cause Ohio already organized two public hearings in Columbus on Saturday, November 13, and on Monday, November 15. Citizens testified under oath about their personal voting experiences. Many of those who testified spoke of standing in long lines, receiving misinformation, or using faulty voting machines. The hearings also revealed problems we've heard less about, such as cars being towed while the owners were voting.

Even if you do not live in Ohio, you can help our efforts by submitting your own voting experience story, and more importantly, forwarding this e-mail to anyone you know in Ohio. Ask them to fill it out and tell us about their voting experience.

Voters throughout the country need to know that we have made every effort to count all their votes, and it all starts in Ohio. A purely non-partisan Ohio recount of all votes cast, and an examination of all voting procedures used there will allow the nation to produce a full and detailed accounting of the election in that state, and will lead the way for much needed reform. That is why we want you to join us in demanding a non-partisan recount free of all partisan shenanigans, and also help us gather information on voting experiences from voters in Ohio. We need to take these steps to restore people's trust in our democratic process.

Lastly, in addition to your activism, we would appreciate your support and contributions for our work to protect the integrity of our elections. We are doing everything we can to remove doubts about the integrity of our electoral process, and we need you to stay with us now.

Thank you again for all you do for Common Cause.

Sincerely,

Chellie Pingree
President & CEO, Common Cause

Keith Obermann stated that the article by Peter Coyote saying he would get canned for his continued reporting of the election irregularities was not true. He also said it was not true that news stations were put on a "lock out" regarding election coverage. He said it is more that they are just not getting onto it because Kerry conceded the election and the Dems are not protesting the election at all.