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Author Topic:   THE CASE FOR IMPEACHMENT - Harper's
lotusheartone
unregistered
posted March 06, 2006 05:08 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Isn't all of this name calling silly? Are we in high school? Is our Government? Is the Press?

All disrespectful nonsense if you ask me..

can't we meet in the middle?

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lotusheartone
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posted March 06, 2006 05:41 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
you know, if each person..realized we are all inter-connected..I am you..you are me..we are all the same..well, wouldn't you treat yourSelf better..stop the hurts..so the healing can begin..
or we can just keep doing what we're doing..and let it all fall down. ...

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jwhop
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Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 06, 2006 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First of all acoustic; are you disputing that any part of what I said you said is wrong...that you didn't say it?

Exactly what training does a philosophy professor have which gives her "expert" status in foreign affairs acoustic?

You weren't able to back up a word you said acoustic and pulling in phony experts doesn't help your credibility.

My violence and Saddam's violence are differnt orders of magnitude acoustic. Declaring terrorists as ballsy for killing innocent people they don't even know was the crowning touch and evidence of your detachment from reality. Declaring yourself mainstream America can only be a joke...or more evidence you have your head in fantasy land...or someplace closer on your anatomy.

Second, your memory perhaps isn't up to snuff acoustic.

This 60's leftist.

Leaving the left
I can no longer abide the simpering voices of self-styled progressives -- people who once championed solidarity
Keith Thompson

Sunday, May 22, 2005

Nightfall, Jan. 30. Eight-million Iraqi voters have finished risking their lives to endorse freedom and defy fascism. Three things happen in rapid succession. The right cheers. The left demurs. I walk away from a long-term intimate relationship. I'm separating not from a person but a cause: the political philosophy that for more than three decades has shaped my character and consciousness, my sense of self and community, even my sense of cosmos.

I'm leaving the left -- more precisely, the American cultural left and what it has become during our time together.

I choose this day for my departure because I can no longer abide the simpering voices of self-styled progressives -- people who once championed solidarity with oppressed populations everywhere -- reciting all the ways Iraq's democratic experiment might yet implode.

My estrangement hasn't happened overnight. Out of the corner of my eye I watched what was coming for more than three decades, yet refused to truly see. Now it's all too obvious. Leading voices in America's "peace" movement are actually cheering against self-determination for a long-suffering Third World country because they hate George W. Bush more than they love freedom.

Like many others who came of age politically in the 1960s, I became adept at not taking the measure of the left's mounting incoherence. To face it directly posed the danger that I would have to describe it accurately, first to myself and then to others. That could only give aid and comfort to Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and all the other Usual Suspects the left so regularly employs to keep from seeing its own reflection in the mirror.

Now, I find myself in a swirling metamorphosis. Think Kafka, without the bug. Think Kuhnian paradigm shift, without the buzz. Every anomaly that didn't fit my perceptual set is suddenly back, all the more glaring for so long ignored. The insistent inner voice I learned to suppress now has my rapt attention. "Something strange -- something approaching pathological -- something entirely of its own making -- has the left in its grip," the voice whispers. "How did this happen?" The Iraqi election is my tipping point. The time has come to walk in a different direction -- just as I did many years before.

I grew up in a northwest Ohio town where conservative was a polite term for reactionary. When Martin Luther King Jr. spoke of Mississippi "sweltering in the heat of oppression," he could have been describing my community, where blacks knew to keep their heads down, and animosity toward Catholics and Jews was unapologetic. Liberal and conservative, like left and right, wouldn't be part of my lexicon for a while, but when King proclaimed, "I have a dream," I instinctively cast my lot with those I later found out were liberals (then synonymous with "the left" and "progressive thought").

The people on the other side were dedicated to preserving my hometown's backward-looking status quo. This was all that my 10-year-old psyche needed to know. The knowledge carried me for a long time. Mythologies are helpful that way.

I began my activist career championing the 1968 presidential candidacies of Robert Kennedy and Eugene McCarthy, because both promised to end America's misadventure in Vietnam. I marched for peace and farm worker justice, lobbied for women's right to choose and environmental protections, signed up with George McGovern in 1972 and got elected as the youngest delegate ever to a Democratic convention.

Eventually I joined the staff of U.S. Sen. Howard Metzenbaum, D-Ohio. In short, I became a card-carrying liberal, although I never actually got a card. (Bookkeeping has never been the left's strong suit.) All my commitments centered on belief in equal opportunity, due process, respect for the dignity of the individual and solidarity with people in trouble. To my mind, Americans who had joined the resistance to Franco's fascist dystopia captured the progressive spirit at its finest.

A turning point came at a dinner party on the day Ronald Reagan famously described the Soviet Union as the pre-eminent source of evil in the modern world. The general tenor of the evening was that Reagan's use of the word "evil" had moved the world closer to annihilation. There was a palpable sense that we might not make it to dessert.

When I casually offered that the surviving relatives of the more than 20 million people murdered on orders of Joseph Stalin might not find "evil'" too strong a word, the room took on a collective bemused smile of the sort you might expect if someone had casually mentioned taking up child molestation for sport.

My progressive companions had a point. It was rude to bring a word like "gulag" to the dinner table.

I look back on that experience as the beginning of my departure from a left already well on its way to losing its bearings. Two decades later, I watched with astonishment as leading left intellectuals launched a telethon- like body count of civilian deaths caused by American soldiers in Afghanistan. Their premise was straightforward, almost giddily so: When the number of civilian Afghani deaths surpassed the carnage of Sept. 11, the war would be unjust, irrespective of other considerations.

Stated simply: The force wielded by democracies in self-defense was declared morally equivalent to the nihilistic aggression perpetuated by Muslim fanatics.

Susan Sontag cleared her throat for the "courage" of the al Qaeda pilots. Norman Mailer pronounced the dead of Sept. 11 comparable to "automobile statistics." The events of that day were likely premeditated by the White House, Gore Vidal insinuated. Noam Chomsky insisted that al Qaeda at its most atrocious generated no terror greater than American foreign policy on a mediocre day.

All of this came back to me as I watched the left's anemic, smirking response to Iraq's election in January. Didn't many of these same people stand up in the sixties for self-rule for oppressed people and against fascism in any guise? Yes, and to their lasting credit. But many had since made clear that they had also changed their minds about the virtues of King's call for equal of opportunity.

These days the postmodern left demands that government and private institutions guarantee equality of outcomes. Any racial or gender "disparities" are to be considered evidence of culpable bias, regardless of factors such as personal motivation, training, and skill. This goal is neither liberal nor progressive; but it is what the left has chosen. In a very real sense it may be the last card held by a movement increasingly ensnared in resentful questing for group-specific rights and the subordination of citizenship to group identity. There's a word for this: pathetic.

I smile when friends tell me I've "moved right." I laugh out loud at what now passes for progressive on the main lines of the cultural left.

In the name of "diversity," the University of Arizona has forbidden discrimination based on "individual style." The University of Connecticut has banned "inappropriately directed laughter." Brown University, sensing unacceptable gray areas, warns that harassment "may be intentional or unintentional and still constitute harassment." (Yes, we're talking "subconscious harassment" here. We're watching your thoughts ...).

Wait, it gets better. When actor Bill Cosby called on black parents to explain to their kids why they are not likely to get into medical school speaking English like "Why you ain't" and "Where you is," Jesse Jackson countered that the time was not yet right to "level the playing field." Why not? Because "drunk people can't do that ... illiterate people can't do that."

When self-styled pragmatic feminist Camille Paglia mocked young coeds who believe "I should be able to get drunk at a fraternity party and go upstairs to a guy's room without anything happening," Susan Estrich spoke up for gender- focused feminists who "would argue that so long as women are powerless relative to men, viewing 'yes' as a sign of true consent is misguided."

I'll admit my politics have shifted in recent years, as have America's political landscape and cultural horizon. Who would have guessed that the U.S. senator with today's best voting record on human rights would be not Ted Kennedy or Barbara Boxer but Kansas Republican Sam Brownback?

He is also by most measures one of the most conservative senators. Brownback speaks openly about how his horror at the genocide in the Sudan is shaped by his Christian faith, as King did when he insisted on justice for "all of God's children."

My larger point is rather simple. Just as a body needs different medicines at different times for different reasons, this also holds for the body politic.

In the sixties, America correctly focused on bringing down walls that prevented equal access and due process. It was time to walk the Founders' talk -- and we did. With barriers to opportunity no longer written into law, today the body politic is crying for different remedies.

America must now focus on creating healthy, self-actualizing individuals committed to taking responsibility for their lives, developing their talents, honing their skills and intellects, fostering emotional and moral intelligence, all in all contributing to the advancement of the human condition.

At the heart of authentic liberalism lies the recognition, in the words of John Gardner, "that the ever renewing society will be a free society (whose] capacity for renewal depends on the individuals who make it up." A continuously renewing society, Gardner believed, is one that seeks to "foster innovative, versatile, and self-renewing men and women and give them room to breathe."

One aspect of my politics hasn't changed a bit. I became a liberal in the first place to break from the repressive group orthodoxies of my reactionary hometown.

This past January, my liberalism was in full throttle when I bid the cultural left goodbye to escape a new version of that oppressiveness. I departed with new clarity about the brilliance of liberal democracy and the value system it entails; the quest for freedom as an intrinsically human affair; and the dangers of demands for conformity and adherence to any point of view through silence, fear, or coercion.

True, it took a while to see what was right before my eyes. A certain misplaced loyalty kept me from grasping that a view of individuals as morally capable of and responsible for making the principle decisions that shape their lives is decisively at odds with the contemporary left's entrance-level view of people as passive and helpless victims of powerful external forces, hence political wards who require the continuous shepherding of caretaker elites.

Leftists who no longer speak of the duties of citizens, but only of the rights of clients, cannot be expected to grasp the importance (not least to our survival) of fostering in the Middle East the crucial developmental advances that gave rise to our own capacity for pluralism, self-reflection, and equality. A left averse to making common cause with competent, self- determining individuals -- people who guide their lives on the basis of received values, everyday moral understandings, traditional wisdom, and plain common sense -- is a faction that deserves the marginalization it has pursued with such tenacity for so many years.

All of which is why I have come to believe, and gladly join with others who have discovered for themselves, that the single most important thing a genuinely liberal person can do now is walk away from the house the left has built. The renewal of any tradition that deserves the name "progressive" becomes more likely with each step in a better direction.

Keith Thompson is a Petaluma writer and the author of "Angels and Aliens" and "To Be a Man." His work is at www.thompsonatlarge.com. Contact us at insight@sfchronicle.com.

Now, a liberal with whom reasonable people can have reasonable discourse.

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lotusheartone
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posted March 06, 2006 06:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks..I enjoyed reading that..

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted March 06, 2006 06:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's loony to call someone who's decided to become a conservative and conservative? Yeah, that's crazy!!

quote:
Declaring terrorists as ballsy for killing innocent people they don't even know

What kind of person thinks it's not ballsy to kill someone? It makes no difference if they are or aren't a terrorist. This is by far the biggest non-argument you've kept in your arsenal. So shall we say that you don't think it's ballsy for one person to take another person's life? I guess that puts YOU closer to the Kool Aid, doesn't it?

quote:
First of all acoustic; are you disputing that any part of what I said you said is wrong...that you didn't say it?

I said quite clearly that ANYONE IS ALLOWED TO GO AND LOOK UP WHAT I'VE SAID. I think there are still enough regulars here to know that what you say is over dramatic and rarely ever a full, expansive view of a topic. What they'll find is that in every situation, you ended up walking away unable to create a point beyond dispute. If you were able to make such a case I'd probably have to concede.

quote:
You weren't able to back up a word you said acoustic and pulling in phony experts doesn't help your credibility.

My credibility has already been established. It's your credibility that has consistently come under fire. Why is that?

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Cardinalgal
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posted March 06, 2006 07:00 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
How did you miss that when you were defining progressive?

I didn't - but as you seem to have misinterpreted my point, I'll explain. I was musing on the negative interpretation of and reaction to the word that's all. And from that we have to have all this posturing and hoo ha about Communism! I'm glad to hear you're feeling fine jwhop because I would seriously have a think about watching your blood pressure levels! Phew! What is it you say over there... you've obviously got 'issues!' Sleep well jwhop love, it's alright I'm sure the dirty Commie bast*rds that you're imagining around each corner aren't going to murder you in your sleep

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lotusheartone
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posted March 06, 2006 07:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
wow!

so here..sending out Heaps of LOVE to everyOne..

and you jwhop

Love makes you healthy

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jwhop
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Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 06, 2006 07:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the confession you really did say every thing I said you said and I notice you didn't dispute the context either.

Those are not reasonable positions acoustic. Not in any way, either reasonable or main stream American political thought...not even liberal political thought. Those are the positions of extreme leftist radicals; the howling at the moon kind.

There are lots of whimpering little punks who kill acoustic. They're neither brave or ballsy. It doesn't take courage to gun down unarmed civilians...except perhaps in your warped little mind.

acoustic, you're so far to the radical fringe left you wouldn't know a liberal from a turnip.

Keith Thompson is a liberal acoustic. Those are liberal positions with which true liberals would mostly agree. Those positions are anathema to leftist radicals, however.

Every position Thompson takes would find fertile ground in conservative thought. The difference is liberals and conservatives disagree on how to implement the cures for what they see as things to be fixed.

You are right about one thing acoustic. People are beginning to zero in on where you're coming from

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jwhop
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Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 06, 2006 07:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All we need is Love, eh lotus?

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lotusheartone
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posted March 06, 2006 07:09 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
that's it.. in a gooberz nut..hehe

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Cardinalgal
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posted March 06, 2006 07:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Leftists are a different matter entirely. Their goals are well defined and do not include a United States of America or anything which would resemble a representative Constitutional Republic with a Capitalist economic system. Up theirs!

No jwhop, you're right; "Leftists" (and for the record I do wish you'd extend your vocabulary a little and refer to them by another name, chage being as good as a rest etc) are not concerned with 'a Capitalist economic system' because the basic principles of socialism are all about people first rather than profit. But I suspect you wouldn't understand that concept just as you fail to understand that it's not Socialism, Communism or even Republicanism that is at fault really; it's the way they're misinterpreted by the few on behalf of the many. There's that shade of grey again... quick though or you'll miss it... Doh! You did!

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lotusheartone
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posted March 06, 2006 07:12 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hey..you are raining on my Magic Love Parade..hehe

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Cardinalgal
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posted March 06, 2006 07:23 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Night all Sleep tight and don't let the Commies bite!

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lotusheartone
unregistered
posted March 06, 2006 07:26 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ggodnight Cardinalgal..

oops, I meant Our Magic Love Parade..


we we we

he he he

I'm a weirdo!

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 06, 2006 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You forget the title of this thread Cardinalgal...and the "progressive"/"communist" author of a bill to impeach the President. That was the discussion...until you popped in to give us a dictionary definition of progressive. But, progressive, as defined and A progressive are two different things

Don't worry about my blood pressure. You think I'm overheating but what you're seeing is the cool, calm and analytical Mercury...in Virgo.

Now, if one of those commie bast*rds you mentioned ever breaks in and attempts to do me, they'll be greeted by that overheated Leo with Scorp rising and Mars in Aries you only think you're seeing now.

It would be a dull world with no issues.

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lotusheartone
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posted March 06, 2006 07:35 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did you say tissue's? hehe

I know issue's, but so many, huh?

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AcousticGod
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Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted March 06, 2006 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Thanks for the confession you really did say every thing I said you said and I notice you didn't dispute the context either.

That's NOT AT ALL what I said. I said that my words are easily accessible, and if anyone wished to recall them they may feel free.

I also said that with your penchant for exaggeration that interested parties really ought to look not only into this, but everything you have to say. More often than not you misstate and mischaracterize things, so your mischaracterizing me is par for the course. I'm just being nice about it, because it's more fun when you're around. That's the singular reason I'm letting some of your outrageousness slide. You are merely a test of my patience, and it's good for me to practice restraint.

quote:
Those are not reasonable positions acoustic. Not in any way, either reasonable or main stream American political thought...not even liberal political thought. Those are the positions of extreme leftist radicals; the howling at the moon kind.

What? You think upping the anty on the insult is going to come to a different result? If you don't think my positions are reasonable, then maybe you don't know what 'reasonable' is or means. I don't think I've met any extreme leftist radicals. The only extremist with political views that I've encountered is you. This isn't the first time you've tried to paint me with your colors, and this probably isn't the last time they'll be dismissed as purely ironic.

quote:
There are lots of whimpering little punks who kill acoustic. They're neither brave or ballsy. It doesn't take courage to gun down unarmed civilians...except perhaps in your warped little mind.

If their whimpering and little, then it makes all the MORE SENSE that it would take courage for them to kill.

It's more than a little disconcerting that you identify yourself as someone who knows the mindset of a killer, and further that it doesn't take courage. So what exactly do YOU feel when you're out killing people, Jwhop?

quote:
acoustic, you're so far to the radical fringe left you wouldn't know a liberal from a turnip.

See how you keep stretching for an insult? You must be starting to feel threatened by me or something. I haven't hurt you. I've only tried to guide you to the truth.

quote:
Keith Thompson is a liberal acoustic. Those are liberal positions with which true liberals would mostly agree. Those positions are anathema to leftist radicals, however.

So now you're an expert on liberalism as well, huh? As evidenced by what? An avid attention to Republican propaganda? Yeah, I think we'd all agree you really know what you're talking about when you talk about people and their political affiliations.

quote:
People are beginning to zero in on where you're coming from

Well, I hope so, because where I'm coming from hasn't changed.

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jwhop
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Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 06, 2006 09:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How true acoustic, from the first time you popped up on this forum, you've been coming from the "I hate America" radical left. And you've proven it over and over with your attacks on the United States...but never on the terrorists, whom you admire, along with Saddam.

Any enemy of America is almost sure to be the friend of the radical left and they've proved that too...with demonstrations attempting to save Saddam's sorry ass. Now with attacking and revealing the one NSA program with which we tracked terrorists, found them and captured or killed them.

The rest of what you've said is gibberish and not worthy of reasonable discussion.

Everything is there to check...unless you've gone back and edited your posts. But I didn't need to re-read them, I have a very good memory, unlike yours and you said exactly what I said you said and in the context in which I said you said it.

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 06, 2006 10:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
America repressed Iraqi citizens...acoustic
quote:
The war, at its best, is going to be helpful in removing sanctions, and returning Iraqi infrastructure, so that the people whom America repressed may again be healthy and stop dying at the hands of the sanctions we imposed through the United Nations....acoustic
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/001268-2.html

Killing unarmed civilians you don't know isn't cowardly, it's ballsy...acoustic
quote:
There's nothing noble in killing any civilians anywhere at any time. If you think that's what I was saying, you're a much bigger cynic than even I thought. I wouldn't call it the act of cowards, though. You've got to be pretty freaking ballsy to kill people who have nothing to do with you....acoustic
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/001268-2.html

All the moral outrage acoustic could muster over Saddam murdering, torturing and raping Iraqi civilians...Saddam wasn't good to his nation...acoustic
quote:
I've never denied that Saddam wasn't good to his nation. That's your own thought about my mindset. You project what you want to see....acoustic
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/001268-2.html

United States again represses Iraqi citizens by not packaging up a water treatment plant and sending it to Iraq. A water treatment plant Iraq never ordered....acoustic
quote:
If the US, was so concerned with the health and safety of Iraqis as you keep saying they/we were, why wouldn't they send the alternative water treatment methods?....acoustic
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/001397-3.html

quote:

Are we all, US citizens, then not guilty of repression of Iraqi citizens? ..jwhop.....

All Americans are guilty of repressing Iraqi citizens....acoustic

quote:
In a way yes. I didn't know what was being done by our government, and the effect it had on the lives and safety of Iraqis...acoustic.
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/001397-3.html

It's America and Americans who are guilty of repressing Iraqi citizens. Saddam, the butcher of Baghdad gets a pass. Oh, and the murder of unarmed Iraqi civilians and presumably Americans at the WTC by terrorists are not cowardly acts but rather freaking ballsy...according to acoustic.

If there's a more radical leftist construction that could be put on these events than applied by acoustic, I don't know where it could be found.

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted March 06, 2006 11:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, you showed a little piece of the context in each of these. No, I don't go back and edit what I've said, so feel free to continue posting my words (at least that way you'll be saying something sensible).

Shall we sit back and see who comes at me with their moral outrage? Thanks for posting the links as well. That way if someone does have a question about anything I've said they can go back and see if I've already responded to it.

I do love that you keep bringing up the 'ballsy' killing thing, though. That speaks more about you than it does about me. Read that passage of mine that you quoted. That you find issue with it just astounds me. I suppose it shouldn't take any balls to walk next door with a .45 and shoot the family next door. Yeah, instead it's what you'd call cowardly. Now what happens after I shoot the mom and turn the gun on the crying children? Still no balls?

I think you need to seriously re-think what you get outraged at.

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jwhop
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Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 07, 2006 12:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think you seriously need to get a moral perspective acoustic. I think you're more than a little sick.

It's troubling that you identify more with perpetrators than victims. It's also troubling you attempt to shift blame away from Saddam Hussein onto the United States.

I hope people do go and read the entire threads...to get a better perspective of what was being discussed and read the dialogue in it's context.

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Rainbow~
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posted March 07, 2006 12:57 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Time for a cartoon break....

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lotusheartone
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posted March 07, 2006 01:09 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hehe..thanks Rainbow..

big happy somewhere..

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jwhop
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Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 07, 2006 02:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Cardinalgal
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posted March 07, 2006 05:07 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
But, progressive, as defined and A progressive are two different things

Well your interpretation of the term 'progressive' as something negative is what I was musing on jwhop I was simply thinking how strange it is to label someone or something with such a positive word when you're trying to discredit them. Odd tactic that

But then you are full to the brim with anti-Communist/Socialist/Leftist/Democratic propaganda so I'm not surprised that the idea of progressing to a time when people are worth more than profit; when there are jobs and a decent education for all; when the ordinary people share the wealth of the nation equally with no class/minority monopolisation of that wealth and when consequently there is no exploitation, poverty, unemployment, hunger, homelessness, racism, national opression or inequality, fills you with such abject terror.

Those are the basic tenets of Socialism jwhop. They do equate to Eutopia yes, and to date, no one has managed to successfully achieve this social structure without the few ruining it for the many. But then, 'the few' resorted to Conservative/Republican/Capitalistic tenets of personal and individual gain rather than national gain, because of their own inherant greed and power lust. So you see, it would seem that Capitalism is a regression, not a progression, that prevents society from progressing to Eutopia.

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