posted October 02, 2006 05:25 PM            

Blue's in med school. We all know this.

The bulk of BlueRoamer's assertions are right on. Kelly Bulkeley does not have a single degree that qualifies him specifically for scientific or psychological research. He certainly doesn't have the credentials to question anyone's mental health. (Notice how the article doesn't even recognize his doctorate) He's not in the JFK University's Psychology Dept. He's an adjunct professor (someone who does not have a permanent position at the academic institution) in the Holistic Studies, Integral Studies department. As far as the school being a joke, despite being accredited it's not a well known school, and not one nationally known for it's academic research. It's only got 1,600 students, and doesn't even have a Carnegie Classification ( http://www.universities.com/On-Campus/John_F_Kennedy_University.html ) Blue makes a very valid point that the study is based on people's reports, which obviously aren't verifiable, because no one is inside the subjects head when they dream. We can't even determine how the study was conducted.

Another interesting point to consider might be the real lack of any broad base of consensus. There's not a single other researcher's name in this article.

Search for "Bulkeley" at the American Psychological Association, and you won't find him. Nor do I think he'd qualify for membership based on his degrees. Search for "dreams" at APA, and you'll find people with actual scientific degrees like: Robert Stickgold, PhD (Ph.D. in biochemistry, did work in neurochemistry and neurophysiology before settling into his current research on sleep and dreaming in the cognitive neurosciences), Deirdre Barrett PhD (teaches at Harvard Medical School and the Cambridge Hospital and has practiced hypnotherapy for the last twenty years), Ernest Hartmann MD (Professor of Psychiatry at Tufts University School of Medicine and Director of the Sleep Disorders Center at Newton-Wellesley Hospital in Massachusetts), Stanly Rosner PhD (Clinical Psychologist who has been in private practice for 40 years, staff member in the Department of Psychiatry at Bridgeport Hospital, an adjunct medical staff member in the Department of Psychiatry at Norwalk Hospital, and a Fellow of the American Psychological Association, the National Academy of Neuropsychologists, the Society for Personality Assessment, and the Connecticut Psychological Association), etc. Bulkeley doesn't even come close to matching the scientific and psychological background of people who are actually published by the APA. Premier researcher -

Interesting that you'd bring up getting facts from The Daily Show, when you're so often without facts on the things you're commenting on.

I may as well post an article on dreams that IS actually published by the APA:

Considering Creativity
Dream on!
If properly heeded, dreams offer ordinary people creative solutions to everyday problems.

BY TORI DeANGELIS
Print version: page 48

Harvard astrophysicist Paul Horowitz puts a lot of brain power into one of his main jobs, designing the control systems for high-tech telescopes.

Yet when he's stumped about a particular design problem, he knows all he has to do is sleep on it: His dreams give him the answer in perfect detail.

"Often in his waking life he has two solutions he's debating, and occasionally his dreams will tell him which one is better," says Harvard University psychologist Deirdre Barrett, PhD, who interviewed Horowitz and others for her book "The Committee of Sleep: How Artists, Scientists and Athletes Use Dreams for Creative Problem-Solving--And How You Can, Too" (Crown, 2001). "But more often, they'll tell him something he hasn't yet thought of. It's that straightforward."

While most of us will never experience such striking creative clarity in our dreams, dreams can nevertheless be valuable aids to our creativity if we pay attention to them, says Barrett. Indeed, our nighttime visions can sometimes make a leap that waking consciousness cannot, according to Barrett.

"There's a significant number of situations where the limitations of our waking logic and preconceptions keep us stuck on a problem," Barrett says. "And a dream can solve it."

Dreams and continuity theory

Dreams, say modern dream theorists, are extensions of our waking lives that tend to explore the emotional and practical issues and problems that concern us the most. As the dreaming mind casts these issues in symbolic terms,it may also be struggling to find solutions to some of those problems, says renowned dream researcher Ernest Hartmann, MD, a psychiatrist in Newton, Mass., who wrote a seminal 1996 article outlining the theory. Recent research also suggests dreams may help build the foundations for new learning.

New studies are further bolstering some of these ideas. In a series of as-yet unpublished studies, Harvard University sleep researcher Robert Stickgold, PhD, and colleagues are continuing the thread of previous studies that showed that sleeping seems to consolidate and foster daytime learning. By waking subjects up just as they fell asleep, and asking them to immediately report on their dreams, the researchers showed that subjects began to process images and sensations from the computer game Tetris as soon as they fell asleep, suggesting their nighttime brain processing was helping them master the game.

In the new studies, subjects played the video game Alpine Racer II, a downhill-skiing simulator. As with the Tetris studies, participants began to process its images and sensations as soon as they fell asleep. Also similar to the Tetris findings, subjects already expert in skiing reported that they dreamt about places they had actually skied rather than about the game, indicating they didn't need to work out the same issues that novice players did. Stickgold recently won a National Institute of Mental Health grant to continue this work.

More intriguingly for dream scholars, the team also looked at what happened to Alpine Racer subjects after a period of REM, or rapid-eye movement sleep, which is the sleep period most likely to produce dreams. In as-yet unpublished research noted briefly in a review article in the Nov. 2, 2001 issue of Science (Vol. 294), Stickgold and colleagues first let Alpine Racer subjects get two hours of REM sleep before waking them up. As they fell back asleep, the team woke them up again and asked about their dream images.

This time dreamers didn't report concrete images of skiing as they did in the earlier studies. Instead, they reported what seemed to be symbolic images of the game and their role in it--scenes like falling down a hill and rushing through a dark forest with the feeling that one's body was as stiff as if one were on a conveyor belt--"a beautiful depiction of the way you hold your body when you downhill ski," says Stickgold.

Although the concept needs further testing, "what it sounds like is now this memory has moved along," Stickgold notes. "We are now one step further into what the old dream researchers used to call metaphor. The exciting thing," he adds, "is it's almost feeling like we can now trace the processing of these memories across the brain through the night."

Seeking insight through dreams

As the dreaming mind works to process feelings, concepts and to potentially solve problems, the conscious mind can give it an extra boost, notes Stanley Rosner, PhD, a Connecticut-based private practitioner who has written three books on creativity and discusses ways to bridge the gap between psychoanalysis and cognitive psychology partly through dream work in a 2000 article in Psychotherapy: Theory, Research, Practice, Training (Vol. 37, No. 2).

The key is to translate dreams' messages into creative urges and products, he says. "That requires enough cognition to be able to do the translating," says Rosner, "and the ability to relax the controls and gain enough access to the strivings, fantasies and dreams that are in there."

There are many ways to do this: hypnotically preparing your mind to receive an answer to a problem through a dream; writing out your dreams immediately on awakening from them; rendering them artistically; discussing them with a friend or therapist; and trying to change their course through self-suggestion, says Alan Siegel, PhD, a professor at the California School of Professional Psychology and author of "Dream Wisdom: Uncovering Life's Answers in Your Dreams" (Celestial Arts, 2002).

Artists and scientists have used such techniques for decades. A famous example is 19th-century German chemist Friedrich A. Kekule, who had been working intensely to determine the molecular structure of benzene. On falling asleep one night, he dreamed of a snake taking its tail in its mouth and had his answer: Benzene is a closed ring.

Putting our dreams to work

You don't need to be famous or even conventionally creative to use dreams in your daily life, however, research shows. In a new study reported in the Creativity Research Journal (Vol. 15, Nos. 2 & 3) in August, sleep specialist James Pagel, MD, of the University of Colorado School of Medicine and the Rocky Mountain Sleep Disorders Center and colleague Carol Kwiatkowski, PhD, asked 517 ordinary, nonfamous people being treated in Pagel's sleep lab for sleep disorders whether the degree to which they reported a creative process in daily life was related to their use of dreams. In particular, Pagel says, he wanted to see if people who produced a creative product for a living--artwork or writing, for example--were more likely than others to use their dreams in daily life. Participants noted on a five-point scale how likely dreams were to influence their choices in a range of life issues including waking activities, creative activities, working activities, organization, decision-making, personal goals, recreation, emotions, reactions to stress and plans for the future.

Based on subjects' reports, the team divided the sample into three groups: one that described having no creative process, another reporting an "experiential" creative process like camping or gardening, and a third group noting they had a creative process that yielded a creative product.

Somewhat to the researchers' surprise, everyone but those who reported no creative process at all said they used their dreams in a variety of ways. That included a nurse who cited fruit-canning as her creative process, and others who named grandparenting and hiking as theirs.

"The fun thing about this study," says Pagel, "was that the big difference in the sample was whether you had a creative process at all. If you said you had a creative process and it was gardening, then you used your dreams."

Studies like these are helping to cement the notion that dreams hold an important potential that the waking mind does not, dream specialists say.

"Dreams make connections more broadly than the waking mind," Hartmann notes. "You can be working on a problem and you can't quite see how to get there. But you go to sleep and you have a dream. It makes new connections, and it helps you make sense of it. Dreams can be very useful in this sense."

posted October 02, 2006 05:43 PM            

DOCTOR... same as when they graduate at the top.

For someone like you that discredits education so often (or shall I say the pursuit of it) I find it ironic that you use Blue's going to school as a basis to "back up" his unfounded allegations. I also find it funny that you pull out PhD's and their ability (according to you)to be more of an expert in a discipline such as psychology when you yourself don't have a clue as to what goes in a scientific or neuro-biologic research project now do you? You pull a list of creditionaled scientists and call it good. I find that LAUGHABLE coming from you.

Ironic yes - laughable- of course - unexpected - no.

posted October 02, 2006 05:50 PM            

But hey, you posted a neurobiologist (which if you delved into the exact study is QUITE different than psychology).

Kelly Bulkeley, Ph.D.
226 Amherst Avenue
Kensington, CA 94708 USA
510-528-7198
kellybulkeley@earthlink.net

Education
The University of Chicago Divinity School
Ph.D., 1992
Religion and Psychological Studies

Harvard Divinity School
M.T.S., 1986
Christianity and Culture

Stanford University
B.A., 1984
Philosophy and Religious Studies

Academic Honors
Postgraduate: Niles Lecturer in Religion and Science, St. Lawrence University, 2004
Winner, Religion and Science Course Award Program, 2000.
Winner, Common Boundary Dissertation Award, 1992.

Graduate: Dissertation accepted with Distinction, 1992.
Entering Fellowship in Ph.D. Studies, 1986-87.

Undergraduate: Graduate with Distinction, 1984.

Current Positions
Visiting Scholar, The Graduate Theological Union.
Faculty, Program in Dream Studies, John F. Kennedy University.
Secretary-Treasurer, Person, Culture and Religion Group, The American Academy of Religion.
Steering Committee Member, Religion and the Social Sciences Section, The American Academy of Religion .
Member, Board of Directors, the Association for the Study of Dreams.
Senior Editor, Dreaming: The Journal of the Association for the Study of Dreams.
Associate Editor, Sleep and Hypnosis: An International Journal of Sleep, Dream, and Hypnosis.
Sub-Editor, Psychology of Religion Area, Religious Studies Review.
Contributing Editor, Dream Time.

Publications: Books
Dreaming in the World’s Religions: A History (New York University Press, forthcoming).

Soul, Psyche, Brain: New Directions in the Study of Religion and Brain-Mind Science (Editor) (Palgrave, Fall 2005) .

Dreaming Beyond Death (Co-authored with the Rev. Patricia Bulkley) (Beacon Press, 2005).

The Wondering Brain: Thinking About Religion With and Beyond Cognitive Neuroscience (Routledge, 2005).

Dreams of Healing: Transforming Nightmares into Visions of Hope (Paulist Press, 2003).

Dreams: A Reader on the Religious, Cultural, and Psychological Dimensions of Dreaming (Editor) (Palgrave, 2001).

Transforming Dreams (John Wiley & Sons, 2000).

Visions of the Night: Dreams, Religion, and Psychology (State University of New York Press, 1999).

Dreamcatching (Co-authored with Alan Siegel) (Three Rivers Press, 1998).

An Introduction to the Psychology of Dreaming (Praeger, 1997).

Among All These Dreamers: Essays on Dreaming and Modern Society (Editor) (State University of New York Press, 1996).
Spiritual Dreaming: A Cross-Cultural and Historical Journey (Paulist Press, 1995).

The Wilderness of Dreams: Exploring the Religious Meanings of Dreams in Modern Western Culture (State University of New York Press, 1994).

Publications: Articles
In press. Consciousness and Neurotheology. In Science, Religion, and Society: History, Culture, and Controversy (edited by Gary Laderman and Arri Eisen) (M.E. Sharpe).

In press. Future Research in Cognitive Science and Religion. Behavioral and Brain Sciences.

In press. Earliest Remembered Dreams. Dreaming.

2005. The Dreams We Dream For Each Other. In Catalog for the DreamingNow 2005 Exhibit, Rose Art Museum, Brandeis University.

2004. Dreaming Is Play II: Revonsuo’s Threat Simulation Theory in Ludic Context. Sleep and Hypnosis 6(3): 119-129.

2004. Dreaming of War in Iraq: A Preliminary Report. Sleep and Hypnosis 6(1): 19-28.

2003. The Gospel According to Darwin: The Relevance of Cognitive Neuroscience to Religious Studies. Religious Studies Review 29(2): 123-129.

2003. Dreams and the Cinema of David Lynch. Dreaming 13(1): 49-60.

2002. East Meets West in Cambridge: A Report on the “Science and Mind/Body Medicine” Conference. PCR News 25(2): 4-6.

2002. Reflections on the Dream Traditions of Islam. Sleep and Hypnosis 4(1): 1-11.

2002. Dream Content and Political Ideology. Dreaming 12(2): 61-78.

2000. It’s All Just a Bad Dream. San Francisco Chronicle (December 6): A27.

2000. Dream Interpretation: Practical Methods for Pastoral Care and Counseling. Pastoral Psychology 49(2): 95-104.

2000. Introduction to the Special Issue on Historical Studies of Dreaming. (With Hendrika Vande Kemp.) Dreaming 10(1): 1-6.

1999. Who’s Right in the Family Values Debate? A Review of the Books from the Religion, Culture, and Family Project. Religious Studies Review 25(2): 141-145.

1999. Touring the Dream Factory: The Dream-Film Connection in “The Wizard of Oz” and “A Nightmare on Elm Street.” Dreaming 9(1): 101-110.

1999. “Home” and “Sacred Marriage.” In The Encyclopedia of Women and Religion (edited by Serinity Young) (Macmillan).

1999. “Insomnia.” In The Dictionary of Pastoral Studies (edited by Joanna Moriarty) (SPCK Press).

1998. Penelope as Dreamer: A Reading of Book 19 of The Odyssey. Dreaming 8(4): 229-242.

1996. Dream-Sharing Groups, Spirituality, and Community. Journal of Religion and Health 35(1): 59-66.

1996. Dreaming as a Spiritual Practice. Anthropology of Consciousness 7(2): 1-15.

1995. Conversion Dreams. Pastoral Psychology 44(1): 3-12.

1995. Psychological and Spiritual Development in Childhood. Religious Studies Review 21(2): 86-90.

1994. Dreaming in a Totalitarian Society: A Reading of Charlotte Beradt’s The Third Reich of Dreams. Dreaming 4(2): 115-126.

1993. The Evil Dreams of Gilgamesh: An Interdisciplinary Approach to Dreams in Mythological Texts. In The Dream and The Text: Essays on Literature and Language (edited by Carol Schreier Rupprecht) (State University of New York Press).

1993. Why Study Dreams? A Religious Studies Perspective. (Co-authored with Wendy Doniger) Dreaming 3(1): 69-73.

1993. Dreaming is Play. Psychoanalytic Psychology 10(4): 501-514.

1993. “Jung’s Dream Theory.” In The Encyclopedia of Sleep and Dreaming (edited by Mary A. Carskadon) (Macmillan).

1992. Dreams, Spirituality, and Root Metaphors. Journal of Religion and Health 31(3): 197-206.

1991. The Quest for Transformational Experience: Dreams and Environmental Ethics. Environmental Ethics 13(2): 151-163.

1991. Gods and REMs: The Implications of Recent Dream Research for thePsychology of Religion. Pastoral Psychology 41(6): 349-358.

1991. Interdisciplinary Dreaming: Hobson’s Successes and Failures. Dreaming 1(3): 225-234.

Book Reviews Written For:

Journal of the American Academy of Religion
Journal of Religion
Religious Studies Review
Dream Time
Theology and Psychology

Manuscripts Reviewed For:

Oxford University Press
State University of New York Press
Columbia University Press
University of California Press
Rutgers University Press
Palgrave Macmillan
Journal of Religion
History of Religions
JAAR Academy Series
Dreaming
Sleep and Hypnosis
Journal of Anthropological Research
Journal of Political Psychology
Nederlands Theologisch Tijdschrift

Professional Memberships
American Anthropological Association
American Academy of Religion
American Psychological Association, Division 36, Psychology of Religion
Association for the Study of Dreams
Society for the Scientific Study of Religion

Courses Taught
1995-Present The Graduate Theological Union

Religion and Psychology: Methods (co-taught with Lewis Rambo), PS 5506
The Soul, the Psyche, the Brain, PS 5175
Religion and the Life Cycle, PS 2125
Dreams and Visions, PS 2360
The Psychology of Religion (co-taught with Lewis Rambo), PS 5150
The Spiritual Growth of Children, EDSP 4062

These courses critically examine Western psychological research on the nature of religion. Classical and contemporary studies are included. In addition to traditional psychological studies of Christianity and Judaism, the courses address the psychological investigation of religious belief, practice, and experience in non-Western cultures. Special attention is given to the implication of these issues for pastoral caregiving, psychotherapy, child development, and cultural criticism.

1999-Present John F. Kennedy University

Dreaming as a Spiritual Practice, CNS 5219
Cross-Cultural History of Dreaming, CNS 5211
Sleep, Dreams, and Consciousness, CNS 5030

These courses introduce students to the various religious and cultural practices used to interpret and explore dreams through history, with discussion of how these practices relate to the contemporary work of Western researchers and psychotherapists.

1996-2000 Santa Clara University

Religion and the Life Cycle, RS 63
Psychology and Religion: Quest for the Self, RS 62
Dreaming: Religious and Scientific Approaches, RS 186

These three courses present students with new perspectives on the relationship between religion and psychology, focusing on what religious traditions and modern psychological research have to say about such topics as the soul, consciousness, free will, moral reasoning, secularization, creativity, human development, the influence of culture, and the nature of God.

1990-1993 The University of Chicago

Self, Culture, and Society, Social Sciences 121-122-123

This year-long series of courses is part of the undergraduate core curriculum at the University of Chicago. The courses introduce first-year students to classic works in the social sciences (e.g., Adam Smith, Karl Marx, Max Weber, Emile Durkheim, Sigmund Freud, Claude Levi-Strauss, Michel Foucault) and to contemporary research in psychology, anthropology, and sociology.

posted October 02, 2006 06:27 PM            

I did review Bulkeley's CV for your information. As I've illustrated, it doesn't mean anything as far as real science or psychology is concerned, and it certainly doesn't qualify him to comment on people's mental health.

posted October 02, 2006 06:39 PM            

Your opinion of my intellect means nothing. Remember we have had battles before and you seem to convey with your put downs of higher education (yet now you put so much stock in Med Student BR) that you alone are some genius that knows that which others strive to learn after years and years attending and graduating from a higher institution.

I WILL take the word over an acclaimed PhD researcher that has an extensive background in research / psychology and dreams over a guy with a god-complex that is only disputing this author because he doesn't like what he says about Liberals. I do not, in any way, believe you would have said one word if it has been a study concerning the dreaming styles of men verses women.

posted October 02, 2006 07:11 PM            

The study is flawed they say; reached insupportable conclusions they say. Yet, this same researcher said his collegues might interpret the results to mean conservatives are uptight and repressed.

But, this is what drew my attention and it's in line with what the researcher noted. Namely, that those with their feet firmly on the ground...conservatives, dream of mundane events; things they would normally do in their everyday lives. Thanks acoustic.

I love to see leftists crawl out on the limb and then proceed to saw it off

Harvard astrophysicist Paul Horowitz puts a lot of brain power into one of his main jobs, designing the control systems for high-tech telescopes.

Yet when he's stumped about a particular design problem, he knows all he has to do is sleep on it: His dreams give him the answer in perfect detail.

"Often in his waking life he has two solutions he's debating, and occasionally his dreams will tell him which one is better," says Harvard University psychologist Deirdre Barrett, PhD, who interviewed Horowitz and others for her book "The Committee of Sleep: How Artists, Scientists and Athletes Use Dreams for Creative Problem-Solving--And How You Can, Too" (Crown, 2001). "But more often, they'll tell him something he hasn't yet thought of. It's that straightforward."

So, apparently other dream researchers get their data from the same places...the subjects themselves.

posted October 02, 2006 07:22 PM            

Spiritual Dreaming: A Cross-Cultural and Historical Journey (Paulist Press, 1995)

and

Dreams: A Reader on the Religious, Cultural, and Psychological Dimensions of Dreaming (Editor) (Palgrave, 2001).

Both are highly recommended!

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted October 02, 2006 09:52 PM            

quote:

---

The guy has an extensive background in Psychology from two prominent institutions

---

You'll have to clarify that.

He claims that his Doctorate includes psychology, but I can't verify that as the school no longer says anything about psychology in their doctorate areas of concentration: http://divinity.uchicago.edu/degree/phd.shtml

His Master of Theological Studies is in Christianity and Culture according to his C.V. http://www.hds.harvard.edu/afa/mts.html

His B.A. from Stanford is in Philosophy and Religious Studies. Nothing about psychology there.

His doctorate is the closest possibility as far as his educational background, but even then it's vague, and certainly not able to be construed as either a scientific focus nor a psychology focus.

quote:

---

that you alone are some genius that knows that which others strive to learn after years and years attending and graduating from a higher institution.

---

People who have more brain power than me generally have no trouble demonstrating that they do. I don't know what to say beyond that. If I'm terrible at arguing, and just unaware of it, then I guess I should be marginalized since my opinion is so out of whack. I haven't gotten the impression that that's the case, though.

Regarding higher education, I don't altogether discount it. I just look at it realistically. It doesn't make people more logical in most cases. It often makes a person more knowledgable, but that often doesn't translate into being smarter.

As for the other smug remarks from anyone on the Right: http://www.kellybulkeley.com/dream_politices.htm

quote:

---

The similarities and differences identified here may be artifacts of my study’s small sample size. Only future research can determine that. In the meantime, any interpretation remains provisional.

---

posted October 03, 2006 01:05 PM            

You are dissecting his creditionals based on the fact that you do not like what he said about Liberals, which is obvious.

As I said before, I doubt you would put a 10th of your energy into this discussion if it had to do with another catagory not pertaining to something that offends your Liberal sensibilities.

Maybe if the study concluded that Liberals have lower blood pressure, a better imagination while Conservatives were uptight, obsessive compulsive losers that slept too much - well you'd be jumping on the bandwagon to promote the study - IMHO...

jwhop - great points

posted October 03, 2006 01:14 PM            

"Blue doesn't know what he is talking about and probably never made it past a year of college"

posted October 03, 2006 01:32 PM            

For the record - the university I went did not allow Biology majors to graduate without at least a Minor in Chem. It may be that traditional non-private Uni's allow someone to graduate with a watered down Bio degree with limited Math and Chemistry.

My school did not- I had to take over a full year of Physics, Biochemisty, Inorganic Chemistry, Organic Chemistry along with the year long Bio courses - Molecular Biology I and II, Microbiology I and II, Anatomy and Physiology, Genetics, Environmental Sci and then the broken down semester courses... Developmental Biology, Theories in Biology, Evolution, Toxicology and so forth.

All of that was in addition to my having to take Ceramics, Art, Theatre, English Composition I and II...etc....

posted October 03, 2006 01:46 PM            

You, of all people, should talk about immature outburts when you have not only been crude, defiant, nasty and ugly you have a been ALL of those to MANY people here.

Posting PhD's is Neurobiology does NOT make a wits worth of difference when it comes to Psychology and I would expect a Med student to know that. Psychology is the manifestations of events that occur in a cellular basis OR caused from environmental factors. In MEDICINE we can equate that to the difference between Genotype and Phenotype. The phenotype is the expression of the genes. Because one has dark hair we can assume one carries the dark hair gene right? But, until we do a genetic profile for all we know they died their hair. There for having dark hair does not mean one has the dark hair gene. It does mean they have dark hair.

Someone acting out on a psychotic manner (as a Psychologist or Psychiatrist would measure and diagnose) does NOT mean they have the "X gene - something a Neurobiologist OR Molecular Biologist" could measure, diagnose etc... In fact, said patient could be acting out due to a history of methamphetamine consumption.

Now, I realize that may have gone over your head. I am sure they will cover such things in Med School.

LMAO

posted October 03, 2006 02:05 PM              

Isnt that the correct way to spell "childish" or am I missing something here?

Oh Blue, btw when Jwhop accuses anyone of not knowing what they are talking about, it means he doesnt agree with your point of view... Its a sort of "round about way" of saying this...he does it with me too, and others, I have noticed, insinuating that who ever doesnt see eye to eye is stupid..........as if...........

posted October 03, 2006 02:24 PM            

quote:

---

It is easy AG- one would have to look at his transcripts to determine the amount of Psych he has taken.

---

It would be easy if we had his transcripts. We don't.

quote:

---

You are dissecting his creditionals based on the fact that you do not like what he said about Liberals, which is obvious.

---

Of course that's obvious. What else would I be doing?

quote:

---

Maybe if the study concluded that Liberals have lower blood pressure, a better imagination while Conservatives were uptight, obsessive compulsive losers that slept too much - well you'd be jumping on the bandwagon to promote the study - IMHO...

---

Well, if things were reversed, and I was presented with the things you've been presented with I'd have a really tough time arguing for the validity of the completely moronic statement: "it also shows that many liberals may he hanging on the edge of mental well-being."
_____________________________________________

posted October 03, 2006 02:57 PM            

Your degree compared with other people's degrees makes an extraordinarily little difference to me personally.

Are you really interested in living your life comparing yourself to others? That's very unSagittarian. What happens when BR passes your educational level? Do you want him to rub your face in it? What would you say then? Would you still try to make it about intelligence as recorded on paper, or would you realize that you still see him the same regardless of how much education he has?

posted October 03, 2006 03:24 PM            

There you go again deflecting the intent of the topic. We first began with this man's study. You then questioned his creds as though you are the God you allude to in your name.

When faced with his creds you then began to bash on his school touting BR as an expert and mis-stating the intent of various PhD's and programs.

I do not like comparing myself to others but there are times when our experience and schooling does play into a debate, commentary or justifies what we do.

BR telling me that he has no idea what kind of school I went to is justification for me saying "this is what I did" When someone says that my BA has less of an emphasis because traditionally a BS is more geared towards one subject, I of course, list what I have taken thereby proving that theory wrong.

I further justified it by stating that maybe my college was different as it was private.

One does not go to school to learn, to qualify and then just never use the tools one obtained. You would know that if you ventured down that path. I am not ANY better than anyone else and PhD's, MD's nor self-made Billionare geniuses, like Gates, intimidate me nor will I feel "unworthy" because I do not have a PhD or MD. LOL...

BR is welcome to pass me up. I have rarely come across a doctor (PhD, MD, DVM, DDS) that I could NOT carry on a conversation with nor have I felt lower than them while working in Biotech or Diagnostics. Maybe you feel that I should be intimidated, but then again look at the type of person you are. LOL... In the same respect I do not look down on someone that is flipping burgers or works as a janitor. ALL people are worthy.

Pulling out the "You're a Sag and yet you act like this" argument is assinine. Please, you act as though you know so much about astrology, even taking on various authors and people here yet you make that kind of an ignorant statement?

You just can't help but try to reach lower in order to offend or prove your measly point. We are not always our Sun Sign Dear AG. There are many factors that push us. I wonder what would be a factor in my chart that pushes me to pursue more education, work harder and enjoy the fruits of my labor?

I wonder what astrological make up in my chart not only motivated me to become what I became but transition from the lab into marketing, then back to the lab, then on to education where I am now writing grants? Oh wait.. .soon I'll be moving to Germany and most likely changing my occupation (slightly) again.. to teaching Science in middle school LOL..

Oh wait, I must be tooting my own horn because I dare speak of my accomplishments when questioned.

I'll refrain from using any astro indicators in your chart that would demonstrate the negative qualities that you embody. But we both know they exist the difference is I don't need to point to someone's sun sign to say how they should or should not act.

What's next AG, are you going to use BR's tactic and call me a racial name or blame my behaviour on my race or will you employ Rainbow's tactic of copying and pasting something derogatory in place of just saying it LOL...

posted October 03, 2006 04:03 PM            

quote:

---

There you go again deflecting the intent of the topic.

---

I've addressed the topic more than anyone in this thread, so that's an unreasonable conclusion to draw.

quote:

---

When faced with his creds you then began to bash on his school touting BR as an expert and mis-stating the intent of various PhD's and programs.

---

I faced the guy's creds before you ever posted them. I also checked out his schools prior to you ever doing that. I also checked out his awards. You assume a lot when you suppose that I didn't already check these things.

BR's original ideas on this topic WERE correct, and will hold true. This study will not pass scrutiny, and I predict it won't get published (at least not the way it's been presented) by the APA. It's not that BR is an expert on the subject. It's that anyone with an iota of sense can recognize that the statement is outrageous on it's face.

I didn't mis-state the intent of various PhDs and programs. I said that Bulkeley's self-professed doctorate degree says that it includes Psychology, and pointed out the fact that the school doesn't include Psychology in any of it doctorate focuses. That is factually correct.

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BR telling me that he has no idea what kind of school I went to is justification for me saying "this is what I did"

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No. What's logical is that you'd say what school you went to. Launching into stuff about your degree wasn't in order.

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When someone says that my BA has less of an emphasis because traditionally a BS is more geared towards one subject, I of course, list what I have taken thereby proving that theory wrong.

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Maybe you feel that I should be intimidated, but then again look at the type of person you are. LOL...

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Boy, that's quite a number. Here I've always told you that your degree means nothing to me, and now you suppose that I would think you'd need to feel intimidated in the presence of higher degrees? Where's the sense in that, Pid?

If you ponder it for a second it's always been you who's tried to bully people with the fact that you have a degree. Your degree means nothing in the exchange of ideas. Hopefully that idea is starting to come home for you. You shouldn't be intimidated, and you shouldn't expect that anyone else would be either.

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Pulling out the "You're a Sag and yet you act like this" argument is assinine

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No. It was exactly correct. You've tried many times to suppose that you're better because of your having a degree, and you've suggested that those who don't have your level of education must be in some way intellectually inferior. Sag's, in general, believe in the inherent worth of everyone despite what they've accomplished. Now you're writing what a Sag would write, "ALL people are worthy." Remember that the next time you consider trying to prove your intelligence via a degree.

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What's next AG, are you going to use BR's tactic and call me a racial name or blame my behaviour on my race or will you employ Rainbow's tactic of copying and pasting something derogatory in place of just saying it LOL...

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You love to assume don't you?

posted October 03, 2006 04:27 PM            

I do not feel that I am better than anyone else because of my education. I do know more than some people BECAUSE of my education.

I do not feel that you are less of a person because you do not have an education. I feel that you are less of a person because of reasons I have listed before AND because of the contempt you show for those that DO have a higher education.

You cannot question someone creds and then turn around and get p1ssy when someone else shows their creditionals to justify what they have believe to be true.

You and always go through this battle and it ends up the same way and I doubt it will change.

Once again, I highly doubt the author of this study would be under such scrutiny by YOU or your Libby friends if he didn't say what he did. Once again, if the results showed all negatives traits for Conservatives I believe you would be DEFENDING his background not attacking it.

*** Oh and one thing about this quote from you

"ALL people are worthy." Remember that the next time you consider trying to prove your intelligence via a degree."

All people are worthy AG, but not all people are equal in the intelligence, education or financial realm. Those that strive and do more are rewarded. Those that sit on their a$$es waiting for fame and fortune to come will be cold and hungry. That's a fact.

Shall we let this drop or should we keep beating a dead horse?

posted October 03, 2006 04:53 PM            

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BR's original ideas on this topic WERE correct, and will hold true. This study will not pass scrutiny, and I predict it won't get published (at least not the way it's been presented) by the APA. It's not that BR is an expert on the subject. It's that anyone with an iota of sense can recognize that the statement is outrageous on it's face....acoustic

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BlueRoamer's contention and yours acoustic are bullsh*t. You're just too illogical to understand you stepped on your own argument by posting the comments of another "dream researcher" who was commenting on a scientists dreams...you know acoustic, the one where the scientist has a problem he then turns over to his dream state to solve. Scratch that argument.

As for the absurd contention John F. Kennedy University is somehow substandard, that's a bullsh*t argument as well. JFK University is accredited by the very same organization which accredits UCLA, Cal Tech, Stanford and the other major schools in the California University system.

Bulkeley's CV is unassailable as is his list of published works..most of which appeared in well accepted publications, including the study submitted to the American Psychological Association for peer review.

Bulkeley's professional credentials are unassailable acoustic. Your irrationality is showing. You also seem to have missed Bulkeley's list of Professional Memberships.

Professional Memberships
American Anthropological Association
American Academy of Religion
American Psychological Association, Division 36, Psychology of Religion
Association for the Study of Dreams
Society for the Scientific Study of Religion

Not only are leftists disconnected from reality when they dream, they manage to stay far from reality in their waking state.

posted October 03, 2006 09:55 PM            

And, btw, not that it is any of my business really but reading through this thread ... the argument was made, or at least hinted at, that BlueRoamer knows what he is talking about regarding this study because he is in med. school and is studying psychology. But when pidaua brings up her extensive educational background to support the educational background of the guy doing the study, she is suddenly boasting or bragging about herself? That seems rather unfair, no? It does to me, at least.

posted October 03, 2006 10:20 PM            

Jwhop and Piduau are displaying an interesting psychological phenomenon known as "schema" theory. They have such an overwhelming schema of "liberals are crazy" that they are willing to believe a very sloppy study just because it concludes that liberals are more likely to have mental problems.

posted October 04, 2006 12:53 AM            

It's way too little too late.

The article I posted was from not one, but many bonafide scientists and psychologists whose credentials far surpass Bulkeley's. You're going to have an extremely difficult time if you want to say otherwise.

I didn't question JFK's accreditation. However, as I stated in another thread here today, they are located maybe 20 miles from me, and even I have never heard of that school. Perhaps now that I've heard of it I'll see something about it when I'm up that direction. With 1600 students it isn't exactly on everyone's top list of schools to try to get into. JFKU plays an extremely little part in this, however, as our dear Mr. Bulkeley is only an adjunct professor, and even then not in the psychology department. Would you care to name for me some other significant research papers to come out of this university? Trying to bolster your position by using JFKU will get you about as far as it got BR.

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Bulkeley's CV is unassailable as is his list of published works..most of which appeared in well accepted publications, including the study submitted to the American Psychological Association for peer review.

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This is laughable. Let me know when it comes out, will you? If you'd like you can take part in Bulkeley's scientific research, too: http://www.kellybulkeley.com/2000b_survey.htm . About as scientific as an internet poll.

JFKU's psych dept (which Bulkeley is not a professor in) is accreditted through the APA, but judging by the works actually published by the APA there's very little chance of this getting published. Here's the kind of guy the APA gives awards to regarding dream research: http://www.apa.org/monitor/may02/hatsoff_5.html (Stanley Krippner, PhD).
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