posted December 28, 2006 04:58 PM            

You have assured me that lying is against the Koran...except in very special circumstances to save the life of a Muslim.

These are clearly staged propaganda events and therefore lies and not intended to save anyone's life by having them swear a false oath to another..god....or renounce their faith.

So, are these terrorists...both Hezbollah and Hamas not Muslims or are their actions a disgrace to their Islamic faith? There is no question they are implicated in some of the most outrageous lies I've seen.

posted December 28, 2006 06:26 PM            

The whole thing is hypocritical when ... trying to shoot the credibility of the Palestinians just because of propoganda when its a fact of life that everyone here now, and in the history, has used it to further their cause. If we use your logic, then that means the U.S. government can't be trusted (*chuckles* I love irony) and neither can we trust anything that comes out of the Israel's mouth either.

posted December 28, 2006 06:57 PM            

You can repeat the same exercise for Israel.

You might also wish to include some credible reason why anyone should or even could believe a word out of the mouths of terrorists who routinely launch deliberate military attacks on civilians with the intent to kill them.

posted December 28, 2006 07:32 PM            

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Now that doesnt mean that his statements that there were concentration camps for isntance are trash because of this one exaggeration or lie.

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*yawn* Im getting awefully bored of constantly repeating what I said...damn right its a generalization and you better believe it will be the first thing to be used. Kinda like everyone is doing with the Holocaust right now. No where did i say im for it or that its my argument (for the freaking 150th time) but clearly you think it is so whatever makes you happy...enjoy...

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And Israeli govt media propoganda def capitalizes on that too, so that doesnt mean that the history of the Holocaust should be undermined or that does not justify Holocaust denial (ala Ahmadinejad).

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I didnt say and/or imply that Palestinian accounts should be undermined...not once...i said they will be, whether they should or should not wasnt a question. Of course they shouldnt but you better believe this will be used over and over again. Thats why i brought it up. Im not even gonna bother repeating this again if people cant swallow what Im saying thats not by any means my problem, clearly everyone is assuming im saying one thing when im not. Despite being RATHER CLEAR about what I mean.

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Similarly if ONE funeral was faked that has been proven does not mean that Hezbollah can be called a big lying orgainzation and nothing they say can be trusted.

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Pradon me for asking this may be random but how is telling a story with exageration same thing as faking a funeral? One is a blatant lie one is a stretch of the truth. Now Hezbollah may not be a big lying organization in everything they say but they clearly play on emotions of people.

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Because by your standards every government and every media vehicle and every person on earth is not trustworthy from Hitler to Holocaust victims to Palestinians to terrorists alike so everyone is ont he same credibility footing?

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If u take the Palestinian VICTIMS and HOLOCAUST victims out of tha equation id say pretty much. Every media and every person on earth is not trustworthy because everyone has a goal. Victimization isnt really playing on goals of the person victimized. Everyone else plays to their own agenda and your asking the wrong person here. I very well believe everyone is a bloody liar (moon conj pluto in scoprio).

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Knew you were on a slippery slope there

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Aren't I glad you were here to point that out...

I also love it how everyone kindly ignored Jwhop's question and was quick to point fingers. Even if Bush lied and thats against the Bible (thus making him a bad christian no one is denying that) does that somehow take away from the question that hezbollah and hamas are bad muslims? Not at all...I very well think they are.

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Lying is against the bible too but Bush and politicians in general do it.

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Maybe so Dulce Luna and i agree BUT Hezbollah is far from being politicians...politicians lie to get what they want (themselves elected) they dont lie and kill and murder others (usually, not in this country anyways)

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trying to shoot the credibility of the Palestinians just because of propoganda

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Wow u guys are hilarious...this is the LAST time honestly im saying this. WASNT TRYING TO SHOOT THE PALESTINIAN CREDIBILITY DOWN was MERELY SAYING THAT SOMEONE EVENTUALLY WILL DO IT AND ITS SAD THAT A FEW PEOPLE SCREWED UP SO BADLY AS TO LEAVE EVIDENCE THAT COULD ACTUALLY BE USED...if anyone wishes to misinterpret what im saying further have fun...

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And I'm percieveing that you are trying to say that there nothing going on in Palestine, and its all in their imagination. No warzone, no fighting. Am I right?

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I dont know whether that was to me or Jwhop...but ill say (for myself) dont assume youll make an ASS out of YOU and ME (kinda corny joke my math teacher used to say....really sticks)...assuming is bad...try to avoid it especially with me...you will never guess what I really think or how I really feel unless i honestly say it and since I personally do not lie (or try to avoid doing so at any costs) if i say how i feel u can believe it. Assuming how I think/feel will get u no where. Trust me.

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Perhaps I'll take your word for all that.....
just as soon as you...as I've asked others here to do....show me where, when and how the US or..and this is your real target here...Bush lied.

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Come to think of it i want to know to...in all these propoganda threads all i heard was "bush lied" "us govt lied" "israel lied" please show were. We posted up a lie or two. I would like to hear one too. No sarcasm, but honestly. Not saying they didnt lie, i just want concrete proof.

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While you're about that, perhaps you'll include all the reasons they should not be snatched off the streets of Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and the Palestinian areas and hung by their terrorist necks until they are very, very dead

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Jwhop if you dont mind me saying this...you're very very funny. I love your sense of humor, you and Pid really crack me up i love the sarcasm.

posted December 28, 2006 08:20 PM            

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Perhaps I'll take your word for all that.....
just as soon as you...as I've asked others here to do....show me where, when and how the US or..and this is your real target here...Bush lied.
You can repeat the same exercise for Israel.

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First of all, my point was that politicians (Bush is a politician, right?) lie in general if not all the time, then at some point in their career. Its pretty much a no brainer. And when I said this....

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The whole thing is hypocritical when ... trying to shoot the credibility of the Palestinians just because of propoganda when its a fact of life that everyone here now, and in the history, has used it to further their cause. If we use your logic, then that means the U.S. government can't be trusted (*chuckles* I love irony) and neither can we trust anything that comes out of the Israel's mouth either.

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I was using your logic and applying it everywhere else in this argument. But since propoganda is sooooo bad, and The U.S. (and Israel) is totally *above* that , I guess I won't waste my breath anymore.

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I dont know whether that was to me or Jwhop...but ill say (for myself) dont assume youll make an ASS out of YOU and ME (kinda corny joke my math teacher used to say....really sticks)...assuming is bad...try to avoid it especially with me...you will never guess what I really think or how I really feel unless i honestly say it and since I personally do not lie (or try to avoid doing so at any costs) if i say how i feel u can believe it. Assuming how I think/feel will get u no where. Trust me.

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Actually that last statement, and the one about shooting the credibility of the Palestinians was directed at the video...and JWhop. Trust me, I got it the first time....you never meant to undermine the credibility of the Palestinians. However, I still feel that THAT was the purpose of this video (or whoever made it).

And no, I don't support terrorist tactics but its sad to see people (Palestinians) being displaced and living in a place controlled by a government who couldn't give two sh#ts about them.

posted December 28, 2006 08:55 PM            

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Actually that last statement, and the one about shooting the credibility of the Palestinians was directed at the video...and JWhop. Trust me, I got it the first time....you never meant to undermine the credibility of the Palestinians.

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Thank you I feel sometimes that people just lump my arguments with everyone elses (having this disscussion with other people elsewhere and they go as far as to take my obvious sarcasm as facts, a bit frustrating). That certainly was the purpose of the video and i mentioned it a number of times in this and another thread that I dont agree with the purpose of the videos but rather i find the evidence that they discovered bad for the Palestinian people. That was a poor move on Hezbollah's part mostly the dead man walking. Which was an obvious blatant lie...and now taking that they can make another video using stuff that MAY OR MAY NOT be true and now the whole video appears to be false because of an issue in it. I cant speak whether the rest of it is true or false I do not have further information to prove that but it certainly seems that way (which was my pt re them getting caught something else could be used and assumed to be false).

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And no, I don't support terrorist tactics but its sad to see people (Palestinians) being displaced and living in a place controlled by a government who couldn't give two sh#ts about them.

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posted December 29, 2006 12:13 AM              

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These are clearly staged propaganda events and therefore lies and not intended to save anyone's life by having them swear a false oath to another..god....or renounce their faith.

So, are these terrorists...both Hezbollah and Hamas not Muslims or are their actions a disgrace to their Islamic faith? There is no question they are implicated in some of the most outrageous lies I've seen.

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Indeed Hezbollah staged propoganda. My first question to you is, do you consider all propoganda lying? Because then the Bush administration and several US media channels would be guilty of it too, and they also liars.

To answer your question, yes I do think they lied and no I dont think its justified. Lying is not justified in Islam. Concealing the truth or exaggerating certain points is different from blatant pretension, which is what the funeral looks like. If that is the case, then indeed they are not following Allah's word. I could not understand how they can claim to be the beacon of Islamic faith, but then again, they don't really. They are a political group that is using religion to play up its own purposes. That is why you wont get much of a defense for Hezbollah out of me, because they stood by and watched scores of Lebanese die in the first days of the war and I am so angry with them about that. But in the end, Israels disproportionate reaction and gross use of force left the Lebanese people , Muslims Christian and Druze alike, allied with Hezbollah, and not Israel.

You knwo why? Because even if every single thing Hezbollah said is made up (which it isnt btw), still the entire world WATCHED Israels aggression, their hatred and their military prowess, and said nothing. The whole world was silent, but all the Lebanese people I know will never forget their own homes being destroyed. And even those that were nowhere near Hezbollah targets or Hezbollah members. Remember, Hezbollah is concentrated in Southern Lebanon which is where it originated from, and also in Shiite areas. Yet ALL religious denominations suffered, and their hatred for Israel increased a thousand fold, regardless of whether or not Hezbollah was even in the picture.

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i said they will be, whether they should or should not wasnt a question. Of course they shouldnt but you better believe this will be used over and over again.

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Well BUD the first person Ive seen using it to try and prove a point about lack of credibility , was you, so obviously that would be a natural conclusion. If that was not your point, then why so many posts and videos simultaneously that try to discredit not only Hezbollah (This video) but Palestinians in general (the other video on the other thread)? Whatever your intentions may be (I assume they are good and NOT bad, but to an objective third person on the internet who knows no one, understand the implications of your posts) the posts imply that you are simultaneously posting several things to point to the fact that Palestinians are not trustworthy people in fact all of them may have weird/dangerous/psycho violent tendencies. If this is not the point, why not post some other things to counterbalance your argument or make it more complete?

If someone comes on a board all the time and all they post is anti Hezbollah stuff, then say that they are not indeed anti Hezbollah, only are pointing out that people may BECOME anti Hezbollah, that is a very....difficult thing to believe.

Do you get what Im trying to say > Im not blaming you for being biased. I am saying that that is a natural implication of your multiple posts with the same tone and message.

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Pradon me for asking this may be random but how is telling a story with exageration same thing as faking a funeral? One is a blatant lie one is a stretch of the truth. Now Hezbollah may not be a big lying organization in everything they say but they clearly play on emotions of people

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It was nto an exaggeration it was an outright lie. Lampshades out of jewish skin? It never happened per the Jewish scholars themselves (I am no holocaust expert I am quoting the experts).

And yes Hezbollah lied, as do most media vehicles, but the other ones dont get caught because they tend to be state sponsored. HEzbollah is not state sponsored altho Lebanese govt is afraid of standing up against them outright because of their ability to create so much chaos.

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If u take the Palestinian VICTIMS and HOLOCAUST victims out of tha equation id say pretty much. Every media and every person on earth is not trustworthy because everyone has a goal. Victimization isnt really playing on goals of the person victimized. Everyone else plays to their own agenda and your asking the wrong person here. I very well believe everyone is a bloody liar (moon conj pluto in scoprio).

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Why are victims exempt? I think they do have a very clear goal, some of them are looking for self fulfillment/healing and some are looking for revenge, others are simply looking to cash in their victimhood or release anger. Theyre not exempt from any of the ugly motives that motivate other liars. And becoming a victim doesnt make an honest person out of a dishonest person. Not every victim is a hero, some of them are sleazeballs.

Interesting I have moon conj pluto in scorp too but I dont think all people are liars, sometimes I think everyone is out to take advantage of me, or that people dont reciprocate the amount of consideration/kindness that I give, but then I had this one Aries/Gemini bf that could relate on all those accounts and he always used to say, giving isnt about what you get back. And thats so true, I think I learned a lot from him in a weird way but I dont have trust issues altho Ive heard scorp moons have that. I think my Venus in Aries dominates my moon for some reason (its my chart ruler) and Im more of a warrior than a brooder , if that makes any sense. BUD, sometimes youve gotta express those scorp moon emotions dont sit on them, they will eat you up inside! Remember, scorp and aries share a planet (or used to) so they share some energies but express them differently...

We all already condemned terrorism so many times. I have said like sixty times on this forum that I dont support Hezbollah. Good Muslims never get publicity. Bad muslims are the only ones people care about. Anyone heard of Nasr, Khaled abou el fadl, Nayyar ali? Um I dont think so, because everyones too obsessed with Hezbollah and Hamas. But I dont get upset over it, I dont understand why you're getting upset BUD. This is GU, everyone slings mud at everyone else. If you are misunderstood, make yourself clear. No need to 'yell'.

posted December 29, 2006 09:27 AM              

:::Now, here's a question SG or anyone else who wants to answer it.
You have assured me that lying is against the Koran...except in very special circumstances to save the life of a Muslim.

These are clearly staged propaganda events and therefore lies and not intended to save anyone's life by having them swear a false oath to another..god....or renounce their faith.

So, are these terrorists...both Hezbollah and Hamas not Muslims or are their actions a disgrace to their Islamic faith? There is no question they are implicated in some of the most outrageous lies I've seen.

::::

are you really so naive ,sir ?
how does that realte to religion?
do u wnat to say , you have never lied or the party that you support hasn't ?
you and i both very well know all these orgs and politicians use religion for their own benefits .

hamas might have done that but then tell me,who else in the world of politics hasn't ?
your presidents have done , our prime ministers have done that too !

why malign a religion ?

and did someone say , politicians dont lie for deathsand destruction , i'll say name me one such politician and i'll name ten who did !

posted December 29, 2006 11:55 AM            

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are you really so naive ,sir ?
how does that realte to religion? ....cancerrg

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Hezbollah...."Party of God"

Hamas...."Zeal". An acronym for 'Harakat al-Muqawima al-Islamiyya, "Islamic Resistance Movement"

I would have thought the answer to your question would be self-evident cancerrg!

Politician...I believe in unlimited chicken soup for the sick, a Cadillac in every garage, free healthcare, free education, Mom, the Flag and Apple Pie...oh, and the New York Yankees...blah, blah, blah, blah.

Quite a difference between that and staging mock attacks where a poor so called Palestinian is supposedly shot by wild eyed Israeli troops and rushed off to the hospital by other concerned so called Palestinians...who just happened to have an ambulance standing by. Lights, Camera, Action!

Quite a difference between that and claiming Israeli jets struck an ambulance carrying wounded to the hospital...and staging an ambulance by kicking in the windshield, removing the ventilation stack from the top and claiming it's the entrance hole from an Israeli missile. Lights, Camera, Action!

I notice that no one has stepped forward to produce the lie(s) Bush told...including you cancerrg. You want to talk in broad generalities and I'm talking specifics. People talking BS talk generalities.

Now, it seems to me those of you who want so badly to say "Bush lied, people died" have had ample opportunity to prove your point. I've requested repeatedly that you do so....and now, so has BUD.

Facts talk, bullsh*t walks.