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Author Topic:   Hillary Supporters: What do you think of this person?
Dervish
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Posts: 625
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Registered: May 2009

posted January 20, 2008 04:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On December 10, the following happened to me. I recorded it on my comp a few hours later while my memory was still fresh.

I've polished only a little, and that was regarding my thoughts on the matter. I don't include most of my thoughts on the incident because it's not important to this (I've also took out or censored a few words in this to avoid any awkwardness). I'll say right now that I believe no party owns stupid, that all the major candidates have a horde of idiots supporting them, I'm not intentionally singling out Hillary supporters specifically or Democrats in general. This was just the "lucky" idiot I endured and put my thoughts down about it.

My question is for those who support Hillary: Do you think I was too harsh on this Hillary supporter? Do you sympathize with her? Or do you wish she'd support someone else because she's an embarrassment to people like yourself?


So I was doing some shopping (Christmas and personal) when I took a break after buying a book and stopping to have some Indian Spiced Tea and a samosa. (What can I say, I've really gotten partial to Indian and Thai food. I'd HAVE to be given how much it costs...) And while I let the tea cool, I grabbed a new age leftist zine. The cover had a story (with pic) about Hillary Clinton and her daughter showing up in Iowa.

Btw, the tables are close to each other & tiny so that only 2 people could use 1 comfortably assuming neither put a lappie on it (those that had stuff AND a lappie had the lappie in their lap)--and that also assumes you both have no more than a cup and saucer at most. The zine I was looking at wasn't even on the table at all because though it was free, I didn't want it so I was careful not to mess it up with food or drink for the next person who actually wanted to take it.

Anyway, there weren't many tables left and someone with a surprising number of books and a drink of her own (looked like an espresso, but I'm not sure) sat at the one next to me. As she got settled and took her first sip, she asked me what was going on with Hillary (from the cover).

"In Iowa, with her daughter," I said, my mouth on autopilot, not paying much attention. "Unless this is old." Looking briefly, I added, "Nope, today's date is at the top." Then I went back to tuning everyone else out.

She then started going on about how awesome Hillary was, hoping she'd win the presidential election, and was going to fix health care and take America back from the conservatives, though only in asserting that she would, no explanation as to HOW. I don't know about the health care, maybe, but I asked, "Why would she take it back from the conservatives? She pretty much votes with them, be it foreign wars or violating civil rights."

"She does not!" She looked at me as if I'd just ate a live bug.

At this point I mentally kick myself. Almost every single time I speak my mind at a vegetarian cafe, I regret it. But the avalanche has already started, I decide to ride with it. "USAPATRIOT Act and its reauthorization? Invading Iraq? Ring any bells?"

Her eyes became daggers. I don't know if she knew what I was talking about or not because instead of answering she said, "Why do so many people hate her? Even other Democrats are tearing her down."

I shrugged. "She's done a lot to tick off a lot of people."

"Like what?" Her voice, challenging.

"Besides voting conservative time and time again, some of her conservative endeavors have ticked off people who normally don't care about politics. Like I know a few are still utterly ticked over her joining other conservatives in going after video games a couple of years ago..."

"When did she do that?"

I repeated more slowly, "A couple of years ago. I'm not sure exactly, but you've must've heard about it. Grand Theft Auto?" When she shook her head no, I asked, "What DO you know about the candidate you want to vote for?"

At this point, my memory is a bit fuzzy. She said something roughly (but I know I'm not getting it exactly right--but ironically, I'm probably being more coherent than she was), "She will make health care and college affordable, raise the minimum wage, and lower the price of gas." (It was more than that, but I think that sums it up nicely.)

That was something. "What about her voting history. You didn't know she approved the invasion of Iraq, that she has a history as a hawk, and approved the USAPATRIOT act and reauthorization?"

"No. That sounds like something one of those rightwing nutjobs on the radio would say."

"Oh, no," I replied, "THEY like to say the Democrats, including Hillary, will do away with the act and war, pretend she and the fellow Democrats never voted for it, and that as a result, the terrorists will wipe us all out." Then smirking and rolling my eyes, I add. "Either that or the gays."

"You don't like gays either?"

"I am gay."

"Oh." She sounded surprised, and then she leaned back as if to put a little more distance between us.

I resisted the urge to lean forward, and maybe even start running my finger over her forearm near her drink (that's how close our tables are). Instead, I asked, "What do you mean by 'either'?"

A pause. "What?"

"You asked if I didn't like gays either. Who else don't I like?"

A pause. Then, "Hillary." Like it should've been obvious.

Granted, it's true enough, but that still didn't flow right. I don't like Hillary, or gays either? But not knowing how to follow up on that (later I'd realize that she was trying to convince herself I was a conservative so that she could dismiss everything I said as propaganda, since "unlike her" I was a brainwashed puppet), I dropped it and continued with, "Anyway, the people who say what I just said are people like Obama and his camp. One of the big democrat sites also points it out at times. You can also look up her record on Project Vote Smart." When she blinked at that, I asked, "You've heard of Project Vote Smart, right?"

"Is that a conservative group?"

I first became conscious of the despair growing within me at this point. Repressing it, I added, "No, they're a neutral site. But some liberals say they're conservatives, while some conservatives say they're liberal."

"Maybe if nobody trusts them, then nobody should."

"It's not like that. It's just SOME people feel self-conscious because their candidate won't answer the questions on where they stand on the issues in any concrete way. But if you're worried about them, you can just google 'Hillary Clinton' and 'voting record' and many other sites will also come up." When she looked at me like I was confusing her, I asked, "You do look into candidates before you support them don't you?"

"Oh, yeah," she said, but nervously.

"What have you looked at?" I asked suspiciously.

"Her website."

"Hillary's?"

"Yeah."

"And?"

At this point she was glaring at me again and said something like, "Who cares, the others are lying about her."

"Even Obama?"

Shaking her head, she said, "I don't get why even Obama tries to tear her down."

"Maybe if you listen, you'd know why."

"I DO listen!"

"Then why didn't you know that she approved the invasion of Iraq and the--"

She cut me off, "Fine, support Obama, I'll support Hillary. I'd like it if a WOMAN got in the White House." I detected accusation in her tone. I'm not sure if it was against me for betraying women or against men in general.

"I don't support Obama," I said. "Too many things I don't like about him either. If I WERE to go with a Democrat, it would be Dennis Kucinich, save that I can't stand his extreme gun control position..."

"Who?"

Slowly, I repeated, "Dennis Kucinich...maybe I'm not pronouncing it right? Anyway, he's one of the candidates, like Hillary and Obama."

"Haven't heard of him."

"Heard of The Peace Alliance, or Coalition of Peace, or whatever it's called?" When she shook her head, I added, "The one the conservatives were saying sounded Orwellian?"

Blinking, she asked, "Is that like Food Not Bombs?"

Now I was the one surprised. "How is it you recognize an ANARCHIST group, but not a DEMOCRAT group?"

She looked at me as if I were stupid. "They're a VEGAN group."

"They're also anarchists. Ok, not everyone, but it was started by one, many members are, and they're organized by anarchist principles."

"I'm not an anarchist."

"No, but you know about Food Not Bombs, but never heard of Dennish Kucinich or his peace thing. And you don't know Hillary's voting record, you don't listen to what Obama says about Hillary...are you sure you're really a Democrat?" I tried to suppress the snarkiness of my tone, but I know I sounded a bit incredulous all the same.

She finished her drink in a few gulps and then said, "I'm sure I don't want to talk to you anymore." So saying she got up and left. I could feel the frost in the air.

There was a part of me that wanted to shriek, "The reason democracy is useless in this country is because of IGNORANT ***** LIKE YOU!" Another part of me justs wanted to yell out a snarky, "You can buy plenty of books, ye who want a more affordable economy, but do you even know how to use a library?"


But it wouldn't do any good, and I said nothing to her back. I know, from repeated experience, that if I did anything, she'd just say I was a Bush lover, and probably thinking on me as some conservative....


I'm curious, what do Hillary supporters think of this exchange, and of this supporter? Just how normal is she? Ty

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