posted May 20, 2008 10:17 AM              

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Most of the insurgent groups (including the Baathists) place an Islamic extremist front to place more credibility to their POLITICAL cause and thus would want the acceptance of a wider front for support.

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I know it has more to do with politics as opposed to religion, which has more to do with interpretation.

I agree, the army can't just turn their backs on Iraq now.

But the only way we are ever going to bring about any real healing in the world is by understanding each other better- each and every person.

posted May 20, 2008 11:17 AM            

So its not tough to understand these terrorists who are willing to sacrifise the children at the altar. Religion is just a facade. I consider all catholics part of cult and following some creed. And same goes for all hindus and muslims.

Only Upanishad (sitting in presence of Master) can bring about a healing in their lives. I wonder if in a nation of 38 million there is even one close to enlightenment. Where are the Nietzsches of the mid-east? Why doesn't any one declare God dead in that part of the world? I know we have the danger of producing another Adolf Hitler who will misuse Nietzsches book. But that was him. I hope there ain't a future Saddam again who will mistranslate future Nietzsche of Iraq

posted May 20, 2008 11:45 AM            

If the books of these people are filled with stories of such false idealism, imagine how the mentality of the people in those mid-east areas must be? Imagine the generations of children who inherited those false idealism thru their genes? Some of them are in UK , some in Canada, etc. But their genes are the same. Many years will pass before their mentality is fixed.

posted May 20, 2008 12:45 PM            

The endgame of communist thought is that the need for government will wither away and die when all citizens always do what they are supposed to do at all times. A nation or...in communist models...a world of people...automatons who practice group think and group actions without a spark of individuality.

But in the meantime and until that happy day
communist masters have the right to kill, suppress, torture and oppress their own citizens, which the pages of history attest they have carried out with great zeal.

Further, these communist masters have an unqualified right to a very large and unequal share of the product produced by the slaves of the communist system.

Communists violate each and every tenet of communist thought while exhorting, lecturing and bloviating about equal justice, social justice, equality, equal outcomes and equal shares for all citizens in the productive output of communist societies.

The real question is how anyone could be brain dead enough to buy into a political/economic system in which even the communist masters neither believe or practice. That's an even bigger question..the brain dead question..
when the history of communist societies are laid out in the pages of recent history and current events.

The only defense communists have against the pages of history and current events is the lie; the common garden variety lie, the damned lie and the Big Lie.

"If those in charge of our society - politicians, corporate executives, and owners of press and television - can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power.

They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves...Howard Zinn"

"They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets"

An example of the "damned lie". Soldiers are not patrolling the streets of America. In fact, American law forbids the use of regular US military personnel from doing so, 18 U.S.C. § 1385, Posse Comitatus Act of 1878.

"We will control ourselves"

The Big Lie at the base of communist thought. The state and therefore government will wither away. What communists fail to state is that they retain the right to kill every citizen who dares to disagree with the state.

So, the stupidity of lying communists is evident for all to see.

While promoting the most murderous, oppressive and vile system of government ever devised by humans; a system with no citizenship rights whatsoever, these morons talk about the right of protest/dissent against the government as the highest form of patriotism.

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
Howard Zinn

For a communist, this is heresy. Dissent/protest against a communist government won't get you a medal of patriotism. Dissent will only earn you a bullet in the back of the head. Zinn's dissent is only communist rhetoric aimed against the government of a free people which Zinn despises.

It's clear from what communists say verses what communists do, both of which are readily accessable to everyone in America, that their actions don't come close to matching communist rhetoric.

posted May 20, 2008 12:47 PM            

LTT:

Total understanding of each and every individual is next to impossible and that is where a smaller commune can help but on a grand scale, such a manner of governce is counter-productive and obviously impracticle. The goal of a society is to usher change by developement and to allocate the resources it has as efficiently as possible to allow maxium untilization. Offcourse, in such a senerio, not everyone's needs can be met accordingly and thus its the job of a micro-organization to help those individuals out to pertain to their individual goals.

However, a society needs to function and develope efficiently if it is to contribute something that will help the human race in general flourish and inorder to do that, there has to be a safeguard to make sure that agreed upon rules by the community are followed upon. Hence why you need soldiers, police, etc. Offcourse, there is always a case that a given govenment can be operating against the will of its people and that is why we have authorities to deal with them accordingly. That should be quite evident by now seeing how the Supreme court in California legalized gay marriages.

I see your point and your view but it lacks any sort of practicality. Understanding is key, yes but one should also realize that there is just no way you can't please everyone.

Mannu:

Its safe to say that you have really gone off with the interpertation of religion as did Neizche who had such a minute understanding of the concept of God. Yes, I did read upon his concept of God and the ideal of God pertains to loss of individuality and self-declination. That is where he missed the mark completely. Religion has never been about complete declination to organizations; Its been about having a support that enhances your life; And NOT rules it (for me personally anyway.)

I for one follow upon the logical teachings of my religion for they benifit my personal hectic lifestyle.

a) I don't drink because of the health issues related of alcoholism.

b) I don't eat pork for its high fat concentration (I am not a big beef fan either.)

c) I pray five times a day because those meditational periods allow me to clear my head so I can tackle the day better.

Religion does not rules my life; It enhances it and that is what Niezche failed to realize in his interpertation of religion because he only saw it as an organization; And frankly its how you are interperting it as well which is quite inaccurate.

posted May 20, 2008 04:58 PM            

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non sequitor

Children used by terrorism does not fit with Dissention being patriotic. For goodness sakes, what a crock of bull from Fric and Frac.

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You missed the point.

War, in this day and age, pressuposes the killing of civilian multitudes.

You want to blame "the terrorists". But it takes two.

If we weren't invading and occupying another country,
we wouldn't be putting these civilians in the line of fire in the first place.

If we weren't dropping bombs indiscriminantly,
we wouldn't be killing and dismembering large numbers of civilians.

Who has dropped a single bomb on U.S. soil?

Of the hundreds of thousands we have killed,
how many of them have harmed a U.S. civilian?

Perhaps not a single one.

And yet we go on putting all of these innocent people in horrific danger.

You say that it is worth it.

I think you are brainwashed,
blinded by nationalistic and imperialistic fervor,
and intoxicated with the prejudice that America has a right
to run riot over any civilization on the planet,
for the flimsiest of reasons.

You cant seem to empathize for an instant with your victims.

Can you even try to imagine what your reaction would be,
if another country invaded and occupied the U.S.,
and, in the process, killed hundreds of thousands of Americans,
destroyed 8,000 years worth of history, art, and culture,
and then told you that it was all worth it?

Why was it "worth it"?

And dont say, because Saddam killed almost 2,000 Kuwatis.

We backed U.N. sanctions that starved and killed 1.5 million Iraqi civilians.

We knew that the people, and not the government would pay the cost.

We dared them to rise up and throw Saddam off their backs,
and we added to their burdens, to increase the incentive.

And you know we have been supplying tyrants and terrorists with weapons for years.

Dont tell me that all of this is about protecting America.

Why does America seem to need to much "protection" anyway?

Because we are "free"?

Switzerland is free. Canada is free.

Why are they not compelled to go to war,
and run roughshod over 2 million innocent civilians,
with their guns, their bombs, and their insidious sanctions?

They live in peace. The people are happy and provided for.

They have good health care, education, and career opportunities.

They have freedom of religion. Why are they not under attack?

Perhaps its time this country started to take a look at itself,
and to take responsibility for our part in escalating these atrocities,
rather than just pointing the finger, and the scope, at everybody else.

That is my definition of patriotism.

It means asking why a handful of corporations own the mainstream media,
and why they are the same corporations that own the military industrial complex.

It means asking if there is perhaps a conflict of interest there.

It means realizing that there are people in this world who will use you for their own ends,
and that some of the worst of these people are in our own government,
or behind the scenes, lobbying for control of that governement.

It means waking up and stepping outside of your military-indoctrinated mindset,
and, rather than repeating the propaganda and rhetoric,
thinking outside the box just long enough to see whats really going on here.

It means acquainting yourself with history, and with alternative viewpoints,
and coming to see that governments have always been enemies of the people,
and people have always been enemies of the governments,
and the easiest way for governments to control the people, and manipulate opinion,
is to control the information, and manipulate the truth.
This has been going on since long before any of us were born, Pid.
If you dont know these things, it really is as if you were born yesterday.
You leave yourself vulnerable to every form of manipulation at the hands of your government.
You give them your sweat, your blood, your tears.
You would give them the person who is closest to you in the world.

And do you even remember what it was all for?

Saddam had no WMD and made no threats.
Korea has made threats, and has WMD for sure,... but no oil.
Saddam had no links to Al Queda,
but there is evidence that Bush and Co.
ignored this intelligence, and manufactured their own.
The alleged hijackers are Saudi, for the most part,
and a few of them have been found alive and well outside the U.S.
Where are the tapes of the "plane" hitting the pentagon?
Why wont they show them to us, or even acknowledge them?
Why is the damage to the pentagon not in keeping with the official story?
Why was all of this, and all of the events of 9/11, swept aside,
and why was no comprehensive investigation made into these crimes?

The execution of this war has been marked by carelessness and incompetence at every turn,
and yet you still imagine that the decision to go to war was well thought out?
There are people making billions of dollars off of this war, Pidaua.
The more disorganized it is, and the longer it drags on,
the more money these ruthless people stand to make.

Someday you will know that what I've told you is true.
Maybe it wont be revealed to you until after you leave this world.
But I believe that it will be shown to you, and you will weep for your mistakes.
In the meantime, I'm trying to save you and many others a lot of unnecessary suffering.
That is also my idea of patriotism.

I know you are a good person, Pid.
I know you only want to do what you think and feel is right.
It is unfortunate that good people must be divided against each other,
each of us only wanting to stand up for what we think and feel is right.
I try to control my personal feelings, and to understand your point of view.
I try not to allow this to degenerate into childish namecalling,
and to remember what my true intentions are in speaking here.
My ultimate desire is that we may all come to a fuller understanding of the truth.

posted May 21, 2008 05:03 AM            

HSC..You are the one that doesn't get it. Trying to say "it takes two" and correlating the use of children to commit murder by terrorists is a direct result of our conflict (to stop such acts that were perpetrated long before we got there) is absurd.

posted May 21, 2008 06:17 AM              

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And about preists, Imams, Monks, etc; They do not define religion for you; They are only a guide. Its up to the individual to see for himself what religion and spirituality is. No one can define that for he individual.

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quote:

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I see your point and your view but it lacks any sort of practicality.

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But I definitely feel that there are solutions to the problems we see in the world. Solutions that don't involve putting the lives of innocent people in danger, dropping bombs or even blasting our so called enemies to pieces.

There is no real evil except ignorance itself- an amnesia, a desensitization of our true nature- unity with all of life.