posted April 06, 2013 12:47 AM            

“Art is the lie that enables us to realize the truth.”
― Pablo Picasso

“Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth.”
― Henry David Thoreau, Walden

posted April 06, 2013 12:52 AM            

“All children are artists. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up.” - Pablo Picasso

"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage." - Lao Tzu

“The weakness of men is the facade of strength: the strength of women is the facade of weakness."

"When art becomes merely shock value, our sense of humanity is slowly degraded." - Roger Scruton

posted April 09, 2013 12:07 PM              

“Humility is the ability to give up your pride and still retain your dignity.”

“Purity of heart is blooming the same colors in the middle of the wilderness when no one sees you.”

"Fame is not the glory; virtue is the goal, and fame only a messenger to bring more to the fold.”

“Where you see valid achievements or virtue being attacked, it's by someone viewing them as a mirror of their own inadequacy instead of an inspiring beacon for excellence.”

"Nature abhors a vacuum but why do most people hasten to fill in the blanks with garbage?”

“A cure for War? Furiously spending the same daily amount of money toward making friends. Being an indispensable source of food, shelter, peace, and cultural support dedicatedly spending 9 billion dollars a month on helping people would be a formidable enemy of evil.”

“I consider myself more exportant than important.”

“Patience is being friends with Time.”

posted April 09, 2013 06:05 PM              

"I'm not ashamed to call myself a Christian, or a Knowflake, or any other designation I find helpful. If someone wishes to misinterpret this as a violent or divisive act, it is because a division exists in his or her own mind. No, we don't have to all be the same. Is it violent, or divisive, when I call myself one thing, and call you another? Shall we all be named "John"? Would that make it all better? And must we dress the same, as well; is it violent if I insist on wearing blue, while you wear brown? Attempting to stamp out diversity in the name of unity is absurd, to say the least. And, anyway, it's impossible. The world is diverse. I didn't make it that way, but I'm okay with it. I love that there is so much diversity in the world, and so many paths to choose from. I do not begrudge the Buddhist his Buddha, or the Muslim his Allah. To do so would be a truly violent act."

~ Valus

posted April 10, 2013 05:58 AM              

Even with my feet upon it
And the postman knowing my door

posted April 10, 2013 06:05 PM            

quote:

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“Purity of heart is blooming the same colors in the middle of the wilderness when no one sees you.”

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posted April 10, 2013 06:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
Hey, look what I found!

"I'm not ashamed to call myself a Christian, or a Knowflake, or any other designation I find helpful. If someone wishes to misinterpret this as a violent or divisive act, it is because a division exists in his or her own mind. No, we don't have to all be the same. Is it violent, or divisive, when I call myself one thing, and call you another? Shall we all be named "John"? Would that make it all better? And must we dress the same, as well; is it violent if I insist on wearing blue, while you wear brown? Attempting to stamp out diversity in the name of unity is absurd, to say the least. And, anyway, it's impossible. The world is diverse. I didn't make it that way, but I'm okay with it. I love that there is so much diversity in the world, and so many paths to choose from. I do not begrudge the Buddhist his Buddha, or the Muslim his Allah. To do so would be a truly violent act."

~ Valus

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I see how there is room for argument with Krishnamurti's position...I see your point. Though I don't think he was saying, stamp out diversity...rather, that all religions ought to be inclusive.

But grant me that historically religion has resulted in a lot of war and killing.

And what is the psychological first step, what is the origin of all that war and killing? Ultimately what does it stem from? Feelings of separation between tribes, often enough.

It's not being part of a tribe that is violent, it's identifying with it to the extent that your allegiance to the tribe narrows your understanding of, and compassion towards, people outside of the tribe. If your tribe (let's assume ecumenical) encompasses all tribes, that is not violent. But if your tribe excludes or considers itself above all tribes, that is violent.

I am a Libertarian
I am a Capricorn
I am an organic foods advocate

I have a problem with labels even when they are somewhat true because they are too short of a story.

I am a Libertarian (in some people's eyes, because I love Ron Paul, though if we talked at length I could tell you that some parts of his platform resonate with me more than others.)

I am a Capricorn (but look at the rest of my chart, and ask me how seriously I take this subject matter, and please notice that I am not using astrology to try and pigeonhole people, but to understand them better.)

And so on.

Any label is the language of strangers really, and if you are going to cling to your label and not be willing to divulge more, it shows unfriendliness of course. If I tell you I'm an American, and let's just say you hate Americans, then our conversation has ended badly, and who knows what the next step is.

If one of us won't let the other speak after hearing what their labels are...often enough I think that entails a kind of violence. "Quiet, you are a New Age hippy, I can't hear you."

posted April 11, 2013 09:36 AM            

“Any change, any loss, does not make us victims. Others can shake you, surprise you, disappoint you, but they can’t prevent you from acting, from taking the situation you’re presented with and moving on. No matter where you are in Life, no matter what your situation, you can always do something. You always have a choice and the choice can be power”. Blaine Lee

posted April 11, 2013 12:58 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:

If one of us won't let the other speak after hearing what their labels are...often enough I think that entails a kind of violence.

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Absolutely. My own understanding, with respect to Christianity, is that it is not going away any time soon, and it would be a profound disservice if everyone who had a more inclusive notion of Christ's meaning were to "throw the Christ-child out with the bathwater", so to speak; leaving the faith entirely to those who make a mess and a mockery of it. We desperately need people of discernment to embrace this symbol system, and to help move the interpretation of it in a more enlightened direction.

posted April 12, 2013 08:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
At the same time, we need all sorts of seekers to embrace a variety of paths. It is unfortunate that so many, who consider themselves on a "pathless path", make an especially impregnable identity out of having no religious identity.

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I used to think more along these lines...I used to think it was trite to say that one "hated organized religion" and had one's "own religion." But now I find myself resorting to the same somewhat hackneyed expressions.

quote:

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Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
I would laugh, but I might offend someone, and it is, after all, a rather serious matter. These folks are just as attached to their notions of not identifying themselves as others are to their notions of identity.

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There's a big difference between living in a house (adhering to a religion) and wandering around in the desert like a nomad (having no religion and, consequently, breaking off from whatever religious lineage one has.) I'm not attached to this nomad identity, I'm not relying on the title "Nomad," so to speak, to give me special passes through life (as Christians who wave their Christian badge do.) This is my default state from genuinely not fitting in anywhere. And believe me, I have tried. I have 9H Jupiter as my dominant planet.

quote:

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Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
It is an interesting paradox, to be sure, but life, and the spiritual life in particular, is full of such pitfalls.

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The mindset of non-religious people can be just as insulated and narrow as any religious mindset could be, I agree. But not always. There are fantastic, curious, charitable people inside and outside of the churches.

My utopian ideal has no churches...not because I wish to deprive anyone, but because I think humanity and the whole planet would benefit from unity.

I think religion is, above all, a burden of complexity and historical baggage that hinders people from understanding and being in the present with each other. I can walk into a church or temple and appreciate its beauty and traditions, but for me, these places are still hindrances to world peace.

Verily know
When half-gods go
The gods arrive.

posted April 12, 2013 10:06 AM              

quote:

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I used to think it was trite to say that one "hated organized religion" and had one's "own religion." But now I find myself resorting to the same somewhat hackneyed expressions.

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My interpretation of Christian symbolism is highly individualistic -- probably a lot more so than most of these religions people are coming up with.

But, would you expect any less, from someone with Uranus exalted Conjunct the Sun, Venus, and Midheaven in the 11th? Do I still have to mention my Aquarius Moon, or the fact that Uranus is Parallel both my Sun and Moon? Like you, I don't list these things in order to talk about myself, but to back-up a serious claim.

Try to understand: In the modern world, among spiritual seekers, there is almost nothing more conformist than the rejection of religious traditions. I won't call it "trite" or "hackneyed", but it's hardly anything new. Believe it or not, I am, in fact, taking the path less traveled, when I step into the future without forsaking the past.

quote:

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I'm not relying on the title "Nomad," so to speak, to give me special passes through life (as Christians who wave their Christian badge do.) This is my default state from genuinely not fitting in anywhere. And believe me, I have tried. I have 9H Jupiter as my dominant planet.

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I hear you, but it sounds like you fit in just fine here. And let's be clear: Waving my "Christian badge" doesn't get me passes or win me any favors. On the contrary, I take heat from so-called Christians and so-called free-thinkers alike. In fact, the former tend to be particularly irritated to discover someone like myself "masquerading" under their banner. What they don't grasp is that I'm attempting a revival of the faith of the first Christians; most of whom were not followers as much as forgers of Christian theology. Traditions, even ancient traditions, can be living, breathing, evolving entities.

My Jupiter is in Leo (another suggestion of religious individuality) tightly squaring Chiron. This makes me a Chironic figure in the sphere of religion and religious identity. I attempt to be a bridge (a Chironic word) between the "settlers" and the "nomads". Like a hermit living in a cave on the outskirts of a monastery, I am a part of the community while remaining somewhat aloof; I do not often worship in the house, as the community does, but neither am I without roots. Some of the monks eye me with suspicion, others with admiration, while the people know where to find me, even if they don't always know what to make of me. Pilgrims, like yourself, are always welcome at my "door", which is always open, -- indeed, nonexistent, being the open mouth of a cave. Do you see?

In addition to this function, I attempt to bridge the gap between mysticism and atheism. Much as Jung did, I present coherent psychological explanations for the employing of mystical terminology; Jupiter in the 8th ruling my Sagittarius Mercury, Mars, and Neptune in the 12th; Neptune ruling my Pisces South Node in the 3rd. Jupiter makes more aspects than any other planet in my chart, and my chart ruler is in the 9th. It's Saturn.

quote:

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There are fantastic, curious, charitable people inside and outside of the churches.

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Absolutely. Inside and out; outside and in.

quote:

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My utopian ideal has no churches... not because I wish to deprive anyone, but because I think humanity and the whole planet would benefit from unity. I think religion is, above all, a burden of complexity and historical baggage that hinders people from understanding and being in the present with each other. I can walk into a church or temple and appreciate its beauty and traditions, but for me, these places are still hindrances to world peace.

---

With three planets in my 11th, including two personal planets -- either Sun and Venus (according to the Whole Sign system, which I use), or Mercury and Mars (in the Placidus system), -- I'm no stranger to Utopian ideals, nor am I intrinsically resistant to tearing down long-established structures. However, I do try to emphasize a balance between form and emptiness; immanent and transcendent. I am not opposed to strengthening the foundations which unite us all -- indeed, I believe that's precisely what I am doing, while retaining an equal respect for our autonomous differences.

If you see churches as hindrances, I imagine you must be opposed to the existence of different cultures, as well. You may appreciate them, as you say, but, ultimately, you wish to see them abolished and replaced with a single world culture, yes?

It may be true that we are headed for a single culture, and a single "churchless church", and if that is Utopia, I won't stand in its way. Heck, we can all follow yours, if you like. Or someone else's. Christ's, maybe? I don't care. I just honestly feel that any attempt to force that situation would be a violent act. Intermediate steps are necessary and wise. You cannot lead humanity into the future by burning the bridges to the past -- rather, those bridges are precisely what need strengthening. To divide them would be to choose half-gods, in my opinion.

Incidentally,
that's my favorite line from Emerson,
but I prefer it as he wrote it: