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Author Topic:   Facts or Faith
NAM
Knowflake

Posts: 2016
From: Sunny place.
Registered: Jan 2007

posted August 06, 2007 11:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NAM     Edit/Delete Message
I just ordered Gooberz and I am reading Star Signs right now.I have been doing a lot of other reading for the last couple months as well.

I have been experiencing new bizarre things in my life right now, and I have been doing a lot of reading here and other sites and I have found a new wonderful world.

But, I have a questio... people here seem to know Truth from different experiences they have had or different gifts they have received.

My question to you is, do you know by Fact or Faith?
I only need a one word answer, "Fact or Faith"... I'll explain, if you can see things others can't , then I would probably put in Fact, but if you are just taking what other people say and beleive it, which we need to respect that as well, then it is Faith.

I hope this is not a question that would offend some and I hope to get lots of answers.

I am personally stuck between Fact and Faith since what I have experienced is not strong enough but yet odd enough to make me want to know more.

Thank you! Have a lovely day!

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NAM
Knowflake

Posts: 2016
From: Sunny place.
Registered: Jan 2007

posted August 06, 2007 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NAM     Edit/Delete Message
Next time I want to post as soon as I wake up I'll rethink again my decision.Of course nobody is going to answer

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yourfriendinspirit
Knowflake

Posts: 2789
From: California, USA
Registered: Oct 2006

posted September 10, 2007 10:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yourfriendinspirit     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
people here seem to know Truth from different experiences they have had or different gifts they have received.

My question to you is, do you know by Fact or Faith?
I only need a one word answer, "Fact or Faith"...


I'd love to give you just a one word answer but... I can't.

It seems when we discover something, a gift of sorts it is based on faith. It becomes fact over a period of validation within ourselves. After this process happens it is said from our lips as fact. To another hearing our words it is perceived as faith until they themselves go through the validation process. If they lack faith they do not proceed to the validation process and go on about thier merry way.

Does this help any? I sure hope so...
Good luck to you on the adventures ahead of you

------------------
Sendin' love your way,
"your friend in spirit"

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artlovesdawn
Knowflake

Posts: 1177
From:
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posted October 07, 2007 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for artlovesdawn     Edit/Delete Message
..

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cat71
Knowflake

Posts: 1009
From: Neverland...
Registered: May 2002

posted October 11, 2007 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cat71     Edit/Delete Message
straight up Nam - I can say Fact AND Faith.

There was a time when I would say 'I know this to be true', like for instance there is a God, there is life after death - and that cam from a basis in Faith.

As I grew older I had experiences which confirmed my Faith with Facts - I saw things with my own two eyes which confirmed my earlier beliefs.

So when I used to say 'I know there is life after death' it used to be from Faith, now I say it because I know it as a Fact, due to experiences I have had.

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vesta-sister
Knowflake

Posts: 186
From: colorado
Registered: Sep 2007

posted October 12, 2007 01:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vesta-sister     Edit/Delete Message
I agree with cat71.
Faith is believing in something you can't see but never the less exists. Once, you have faith and believe you start to see the evidence of the situation.

I never tought my angels would give me signs to lead me but, now that I know they exist I see the evidence all the time. I ask and sure enough get an answer.

Everyone thinks I am crazy and that I did not speak with an angel but the truth remains I did and I talked with a pastor who said that is exactly when they come.

So, now I don't have to rely on faith because the evidence to me exists (fact).

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NAM
Knowflake

Posts: 2016
From: Sunny place.
Registered: Jan 2007

posted October 12, 2007 01:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NAM     Edit/Delete Message
What about the power of the mind though.

Couldn't we be creating these "facts" only us see or experience? getting confused maybe?


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NAM
Knowflake

Posts: 2016
From: Sunny place.
Registered: Jan 2007

posted October 12, 2007 01:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NAM     Edit/Delete Message
artlovesdawn~Yes, you did understand my question

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cat71
Knowflake

Posts: 1009
From: Neverland...
Registered: May 2002

posted October 12, 2007 05:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cat71     Edit/Delete Message
Nam - I have a question for your question -
Does it matter what the basis of the knowing is, if the knowing itself fills you with comfort, confidence and a sense of security?

Aren't these personal beliefs, whether faith or fact, your own truth and therefore have the same value regardless of evidence or the agreement of others?

That's how I feel. For a long time I've been considered the 'air-head' of the family However over time, my family and friends are coming round to my 'spiritual' way of thinking and even now look to me as a source of advice in these things.

I can't explain everything I 'know', as some of these things have been with me since I was a young girl,9 or 10, and I've learnt to believe whether or not others agree simply because when I've had deeper questions even the wise, older people around me couldn't answer or would tell me not to be so silly, so I'd just say to myself 'Oh, well it's because they don't "know" what I know!'

A bit like Linda in the early parts of Gooberz (I say this with the utmost respect, I'm not trying to say I'm a master or guru or anything)

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vesta-sister
Knowflake

Posts: 186
From: colorado
Registered: Sep 2007

posted October 12, 2007 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vesta-sister     Edit/Delete Message
Nam, Let me give you some example of what has taken place with me then you decide for yourself.

I simply ask a question or for God to please bring someone into my life who can share thier knowlwdge with me. I recently went home for a funeral and I missed my conection but on the next plane (divine intervention) I met a person who is open
We talked about me and angels and she revealed to me that her husband did as well,
She also said how he tends to notice signs more now (same as me). This apparently is a proven fact.

If it was all mind then think on this I was standing outside and I asked for a sign like a shooting star or something that night nothing but the next night I looked up and saw a shooting star. ( not power of mind, I am not that powerfull) Only heven itself could do something like that.

I find all I have to do is ask and wait, heaven always reveals an answer just listen Radio, Tv, words, people even, notice the patterns!!! Heven is sending you a message.

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cat71
Knowflake

Posts: 1009
From: Neverland...
Registered: May 2002

posted October 12, 2007 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cat71     Edit/Delete Message
Vesta - interesting what you said, I recently had a similar experience.
I asked for a sign and did that little thing that Linda mentions in Gooberz, where you pick a random word or something, I picked Butterfly as the sign that would answer my question as a 'yes', that night nothing, then on the bus going to work the next day I saw a big shop sign that I hadn't paid attention to before and it had a BIG yellow butterfly on it

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NAM
Knowflake

Posts: 2016
From: Sunny place.
Registered: Jan 2007

posted October 12, 2007 01:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NAM     Edit/Delete Message
I understand, I see where you are coming from, things like that happen to me a lot as well.But this is why I asked the question to begin with,one can actually think is loosing their own mind putting so much weight to "signs" that may not purely but coincidence.
I am now open to both ideas and I just watch and see how things develop.
As far as your question cat, the basis of knowing is not filling me up with comfort, confidence and a sense of security, to a point it is but then I feel cheated and put on hold.Why give me all these little signs and play this game of life?
I need to know a purpose.

My mom says there is an old saying that we walk through life like walking through a valley of tears, and this is all this life is.Sounds very depressing to me, I ask why?

I am actually ready to die, I am not going to take my life obviously even if I didn't have the kids, but life seems so pintless and such a waste of energy that I feel sometimes I am just ready to die.
Now that^ is even more sad, and I actually have a good life and laugh a lot, I can't imagine people that have it worse than I do.

where is that spinning smiley?
My mind is going in circles LOL

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cat71
Knowflake

Posts: 1009
From: Neverland...
Registered: May 2002

posted October 12, 2007 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cat71     Edit/Delete Message
NAM - I do know how you feel, I am in that place from time to time. Just a wierd side note - before I replied here on Thursday I'd seen a number of cars with NAM in their number plate, and I thought of you. Odd huh? So maybe there's something here for me too...

I had a bad day on Wednesday, it was my birthday and not one of my friends remembered. My parents are in Australia and so I got an email, which was nice but not the same as getting a card, my sister and brother - nothing, and even my daughter forgot. Now maybe I'm a big kid, but this really upset and I found myself at 9pm sitting in the dark on my doorstep looking a t the stars thinking what you said, "What's the point?" I was so sad and just cried for a while. I guess that's the point of the faith part, not really having evidence but still believing things will get better.
You've been on your own for a while right? No partner in life? (Sorry if I'm wrong here, but just going from memory) I've been a single mum since my daughter was 2, and no relationship for 7yrs nearly 8 yrs now, and god it is hard to be alone. Even harder when you love someone who doesn't know you exist
I think the point I'm getting at here is, the lack of love in life can make you feel so down. We all know we love our kids unconditionally, and that their presence in our lives is hugely important, but kids grow up right? They leave home, get thier own partners. Meanwhile we've given up any kind of life for ourselves to support them, and are left in a an empty nest.
Maybe I'm way off the mark, if I am I apologise.
I've spent most of my life looking after other people, my brother and sister, my partners, my daughter, my parents - when is it my turn? And here's the biggy, from my perspective, why do I have all these talents, all this intelligence to be working two crappy jobs with no sign of success when there are really dumb, superficial people revelling in glory and riches; it's just not fair dammit!

Ok I'm rambling and tempted to delete myself LOL come back soon honey x

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NAM
Knowflake

Posts: 2016
From: Sunny place.
Registered: Jan 2007

posted October 12, 2007 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NAM     Edit/Delete Message
ok, so you made me cry and laugh at the same time.
Yes, you are right, dead on.

I am sorry nobody said Happy B-day to you, that would have made me feel low too, but if you don't mind HAPPY B-DAY! even if it is a bit late.

I , in the other hand, have been working with what I know to do and utilizing my abilities but I am often encountering too many people in my profession taking advantage of others and it has been a big fight of mine to keep things fair but I am to the point were I would actually have to restructure society to keep all the problems I encounter everyday to a minimun, I don't know how is it that I can see that and other people can't, all they are worry about is how to get their hands on their next check to go and blow the money in stupid stuff.

So, yes then I wonder why I bother to help anyone but it wouldn't be me if I don't help and try somehow to make sense of their finances.
It sure would be nice if I can at least come home to someone that understands or just simply can hold me and be in the same boat I am with their values.Not only have someone that understands because I actually also have a roomate that understands and does hold me from time to time and it is nice but is just not the saem if you know what I mean.
Then again if I would have that special guy I would probably get pregnant again LOL

This world is really up side down.

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NAM
Knowflake

Posts: 2016
From: Sunny place.
Registered: Jan 2007

posted October 12, 2007 02:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NAM     Edit/Delete Message
oh yeah, and then to add to the mix I get weird, dreams , signs and I am drawn to reading a lot which raises even more questions.

LOL

You can delete if you want I will probably do the same eventually

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NAM
Knowflake

Posts: 2016
From: Sunny place.
Registered: Jan 2007

posted October 12, 2007 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NAM     Edit/Delete Message
That thing with the plates was interesting.
What are the odds.
LOL

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cat71
Knowflake

Posts: 1009
From: Neverland...
Registered: May 2002

posted October 12, 2007 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cat71     Edit/Delete Message
the plates - I know weird huh?!

I so know what you mean. You sing right? Which I think is great! I've been involved with the performing arts one way or another since I was 5, and it is my love, my dream to be able to do it professionally. But the opportunities have always evaded me. The times when I've worked in the business (administratively, and writing, directing etc) I've also been so frustrated by the "me, me, me" attitudes. There's little real deliverance of art for the purpose of entertaining other people, of making others happy. It's so self-serving isn't it? You can only be yourself really and keep your motives right so you can sleep at night. You sound like you have a tendency to take on the problems of the world, like me, but sometimes you have to step back and just take care of your own.
The signs are becoming more important to me of late because I feel like so much has changed in my life and in me and I am at a point where I am telling the universe I'm ready to graduate now
I also think I am in a Saturn seven, transitting saturn is square my natal saturn and so many changes are happening in and around me right now I think I've gathered an extra piece of my soul back or maybe done an exchange All I 'know' is, this is going to be an interesting year for me
I hope you start to feel better or find some peace - maybe you could ask your angels to send you a sign for that or just ask for some peace and comfort

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cat71
Knowflake

Posts: 1009
From: Neverland...
Registered: May 2002

posted October 12, 2007 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cat71     Edit/Delete Message
Oh - and thank you for the Happy Birthday

Oh and the bit about just being held by someone that shares your values - oh yeah - I get you babe *BIG sigh* I want him too

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NAM
Knowflake

Posts: 2016
From: Sunny place.
Registered: Jan 2007

posted October 12, 2007 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NAM     Edit/Delete Message
No, I don't sing, I wish I could, I would be writing some songs about my feelings and sharing them to the world just to see who is with me.I have tried playing guitar but that is not my money making business, more like something that enriches my soul, like when I read or cook, something I enjoy very much.

I do real estate, I am also a loan officer and my world right now it is very hard in the US with all the people I see loosing their houses and economy turning their lifes up side down, is funny, after loosing a marriage to financial status I wonder if people really know the meaning of money and the ones that are still together put so much weight into material.
But then again with an uncertain future is hard to keep families together.

Seems like all i can do is watch, my ideas would never be heard anywhere...I am just a little guy.

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cat71
Knowflake

Posts: 1009
From: Neverland...
Registered: May 2002

posted October 12, 2007 05:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cat71     Edit/Delete Message
Geez - property in america, you have my sympathy. I live in UK and have also lived in australia and prices continue to go up here and there, I often look at americans and wonder how the heck they ever get onto the property ladder. Especially newly weds! It seems like a choice between crack houses or mansions... but then again I am fed with TV fodder. I only see the Hollywood side of the US. (I've always wanted to go there, but haven't made it yet.)
I can see how trying that would be on a daily basis. Why did I think you were into the music scene? Strange?

Well, I also understand the 'one little person' feeling. I am making plans and saving money to start my own business. For years I've wanted to be my own boss, and have finally found something I'm interested in enough to go for it. Maybe you could find a way to go freelance. You must've heard those stories, like Betty Crocker who started off baking a few brownies and selling them door to door, check her out now. I know it's not easy, but it's the 'something more' in life you need to find (IMO), the thing that makes you feel passionate. You said you just got Star Signs, I found it just after I seperated and during my Saturn Return, what a God Send! Read Money Mystique again, re: jobs; money. It's the best first chapter of a book, ever! When you finish the whole book, you'll have a new lease on life, I promise you!

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NAM
Knowflake

Posts: 2016
From: Sunny place.
Registered: Jan 2007

posted October 12, 2007 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NAM     Edit/Delete Message
oh no hun' not everything looks like Hollywood.
In fact my market is so up side down right now a lot of people I know that are close to me are having difficulties paying their bills and they will be loosing their houses soon.
It is sad.

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vesta-sister
Knowflake

Posts: 186
From: colorado
Registered: Sep 2007

posted October 12, 2007 08:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vesta-sister     Edit/Delete Message
Nam & Cat, I don't know if this helps or not but I just went through my spiritual transformation. I feel so full of life, Yes, I have bad days like everyone else but I believe what brought this on was me asking God from the bottom of my heart for peace, happiness, love and joy. I one day fell to my knees in tears you know that knot in your throat and chest when the pain is great. I heard a voice say: you are beautiful to me in my eyes. and it also said you are a vessel wich I have filled with life you will do great things in my name. Whenever I start to feel bad I just focus on that and let the light he has given to me shine through to others.

Now, I know that there is the possibility that I made up the voice, However the very next day without me even asking I felt compelled to turn on this one program ( christian) The message was what was most important to me. She said the heavens are shifting God is filling women with light and understanding. He wants women to take back thier inheritance, promise, legacy ect... He is filling thier vessels with life. And when I heard that I knew. So whenever you feel overwhelmed ask your angels to ease your pain or help in any way they can they are always there and I promise your guardian angel will never leave you. God loves all of us we are all beautiful in his eyes. So ask he loves you you are special to him it may take a while but if it is an unselfish request he will provide.

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cat71
Knowflake

Posts: 1009
From: Neverland...
Registered: May 2002

posted October 13, 2007 05:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cat71     Edit/Delete Message
Nam - I'm sorry to hear that, I know how it feels to be that broke.
Luckily though I've only ever rented, so even when we've been down to the last can of soup, I've made sure the rent's paid, mortgages are much harder aren't they cos you're at the mercy of rates , taxes and interest I hope things get better soon.

Vesta - thanx, that's the sort of thing I meant too, at yourlowest is when you see the real signs hey?

I think one of the biggest problems today is that society sells success as millions of pounds/dollars in the bank, a house in the Hollywood hills next door to Robert De Niro and your kids shopping with Paris Hilton. Anything else is not even rated. It is f**ked up! (Sorry but that's how I feel) I'm sick of celebrities being lorded in the press for doing stupid, bad things, while some single motheres work at two or three jobs to bring up smart kids who become teachers and doctors are ignored - something is wrong with this picture.

Still like NAM said, we can't change the whole world, only ourselves, so I don't watch reality TV and don't buy beauty magazines, it's my one-woman protest.

Do you remember that song, 'what if Go was one of us' - I feel sorry for God sometimes. As a father he must be very disappointed in his kids sometimes, I bet he cries...

Well I'm going to do a cleansing on myself and my house today, I shall send some peace and love to you both as well.

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artlovesdawn
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Posts: 1177
From:
Registered: Jul 2005

posted October 13, 2007 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for artlovesdawn     Edit/Delete Message
.

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cat71
Knowflake

Posts: 1009
From: Neverland...
Registered: May 2002

posted October 13, 2007 01:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cat71     Edit/Delete Message
cool ALD - see signs again!

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