posted July 27, 2003 11:20 PM         

i LOVE these movies! nothing, no movie, tv show, music, book, nothing has spoken to my soul more than this series. the stuff on the screen? it is pretty much everything i believe (albeit symbolic in some factors) and hold dear. that movie just feels tailor made for *me*. all the philosophies ive come to believe appeared before me on the screen, all the things ive thought about were right there. when i saw this film i had missed the buzz (being sort of out of the reach of pop culture at the time) and my then fiance brought it and we watched it on video. i was STUNNED. i couldnt believe that all the things that i had thought were appearing before me on the screen! it was so amazing, and i felt like i had 'come home', even moreso than when i discovered astrology.

a couple of weeks ago my fella and me had the opportunity to see 'the matrix reloaded' on IMAX in the brand new supertheatre temple near my town, and it was amazing. it had the impact of a religious experience for me. i just understood all the implications in the film and there is so much depth to it, i was in intellectual overdrive for days afterward. i cannot WAIT till it comes out on video, ill get a copy on payday and watch it a hundred times! perhaps its so special to me because i can relate to the setting, sure theres other philosophical beliefs that might follow the same lines of thinking but i just cant relate which although a philosophical person, i just find no pleasure in sitting there reading descartes. i find the old school philosophers pedantic and boring.

i am so enthusiastic about these movies because finally there is a set of philosophical beliefs that is in tune with my generation! it speaks my language, i love it!

the characters in these films are this times archetypes to me. they are WAY more relevant than ancient archetypes imo. we need to have new ideas... ancient wisdom and archetypes have value yes, but they need to be put into context and nothing thus far has been able to step up to the plate as the modern archetype. these films do. things have really changed since the olden days and we needed new archtypes to draw on. the women for example... they arent shrinking violets with a certain position in society, they are right up there using their strengths just like the men are. they are leaders and have just as much importance as men. thats the way of the world now, and thats the way it should be too. i am so happy to have female archetypes that are just as important as men! sure neo 'the chosen one' is a man, but in the films context he could just as easily be a female and trinity could just as easily be a male. i dont know why they made neo a male, but its probably for reasons that have nothing to do with 'equality' issues. phew more on that later if anyone wants to discuss it.

anyone else have feelings about these films?

i put this in this forum because even though it really has nothing to do with linda, its my firm belief that this movie is very much a universal code. you just have to look at the symbolism involved, if you dont see it right away.

posted July 28, 2003 08:03 AM           

...still being total unknowns at the head of one of the most succesfull films in recent history.

posted July 29, 2003 07:22 PM         

i liked the whole reality vs illusion thing and in the second movie all the ideas of choice and free will were done really well.

did you not think the second movie was a big heavy? its technically an action movie and all this complicated symbolism was a big much where you're in a "kick his ass!" frame of mind. i've only seem the second one once but have loads of questions about it- cant post them here tho as they're bound to contain spoilers and i dont want to pi$$ anyone off.

posted July 29, 2003 10:22 PM         

on my way out the door (this poor thread is the most dear to my soul yet it gets the least amount of time ) but ill come back tomorrow hopefully and share some thoughts.

yes, the second one was TOTALLY heavy and i loved every minute and craved more and more and more!!! i was very disappointed when it ended i just... ugh. never have i felt so understood or complete as a human being as when i watched that film.

i am so obsessive lol, i sound like a weirdo certain things like matrix and radiohead just get to me. really get to me.

go ahead and post, if you feel you might be giving spoilers just do this sort of thing

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!! PASS OVER THIS POST
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
then post whatever you want i dont wanna wait till everyone on earth has seen the film, lol! it made lots of questions for me too, and i cant wait for the third.

posted August 02, 2003 02:34 PM         

Re: the Matrix/Matrix Reloaded -
I've been really stunned by the lack of reception in the general public to the second. The first, in my mind, did a fantastic job of introducing the base of ideas with which the W. Bros wished to work, but the second blew it away in terms of pure nuance. Perhaps it is a "heavy" movie, but alls the better - at least it's not a mindless explosion fest (which can be fun in their own right, but not when there's a glut of 'em on the marketplace).
Backtracking a bit, the most shocking thing to me was that some of the _reviewers_ seemed to entirely miss the point of the M2; a good number of them dismissed it as a "sell-out" to big hollywood.

posted August 02, 2003 03:55 PM         

the people that hated it? its simple- they just dont get it. they dont WANT to get it. they expected this nice little light sci fi action flick, just more of the same nice tight little story, and what they got was psychological and social commentary from a philosophical angle. maybe some got mad at the movie because it was no longer 'lite'. the depth of the second one was rife throughout, my thoughts were spiralling for days afterward. the first one was in a pretty simple package, it was harder to see the message of the movie- to someone who doesnt think about the things that the movie really is about, all they would see is a clever story. i knew though... when i first saw it, that it was touching on a massive concept of this world and our society. heck i could be making mountains out of molehills but many others have made the same connection.

not much is known about the wachowskis. i really would love to talk to *them* and pick their brains a lil.

there is an interesting link i have... ill post it when i get back (gonna leave in a min, going up to the mountains today for a family thinger) but the fellow that made the site has some interesting observations. he has connected things in the movie to certain teachings of judaism and the kabalah, its interesting for anyone to read though.

people dont want to think anymore. least of all in their entertainment. the w bros have brought back to drama and entertainment what the greeks and elizabethans etc always had- social commentary and philosophical question in an entertainment form. its too bad really. but, people just want an escape nowadays. they dont want to be provoked to thought, and i think its because they feel (uncorrectly) totally powerless in this gigantic impersonal society.

actually what was i thinking, i can get the link now, i have broadband what a doofus, lol! i fogotted *shy*
aish.com- matrix explained

posted August 02, 2003 04:56 PM         

Philophosically speaking the line the older black woman on the bench stated was probably the only part that spoke to me --- and I can't remeber what it is any longer.

posted August 03, 2003 12:14 PM         

the whole film was about choice yeah? or the illusion of choice. thats basically what the architect (man from KFC) was going on about i think (its been a while since i saw it). they said the first versions of the matrix failed as humans couldnt take living in the paradise the machines had created as they had no choice about it, maybe they sensed there was something wrong with the world (as neo did) but had no way of getting out.

it seemed to me that the architect dude was saying that in order to keep everyone sane, they had given them a choice ie the illusion of freedom. is xion not also a part of the matrix? no one has actually broken free from it as xion has been built into the program to keep the minority of people who arnt accepting the program happy.

they must still be in the matrix as how could neo have stopped that monster thingy at the end? and how could agent smith have 'possessed' that man? (cutting hand man) Thats impossible for a computer program unless its just going somewhere else in the system surely?

none of my friends got this and maybe im totally wrong. i dont see how the 'good guys' will win if theyre still in the matrix.

also, on the bench it looked like the old woman was giving neo the red pill again, not candy. dont know what that means, but...

posted August 03, 2003 10:21 PM         

I loved the first one as you lived it through neo - a hacker. Everything was as we see it, then boom, you're inside wonderland, and we all took the same ride - we could relate. But then the second has Neo as the one, which is all cool, and can help him fly, but I was a bit let down as to his abilities. I don't think the fighting was anywhere near as fast in the first one when Neo "realised" he was the one.

I'm just waiting for the next... *barely*

posted August 04, 2003 12:06 AM         

thats one of the things i love about this movie. it makes you *think*.

posted August 08, 2003 02:52 AM         

~ana

ps yet again i just dont have the shputz to post about the actual movie, im sure in its time it will come. so many things going on right now.

------------------
where i end and you begin there's a gap in between there's a gap where we meet where i end and you begin
and i'm sorry for us the dinosaurs roam the earth the sky turns green where i end and you begin

posted August 08, 2003 02:55 AM         

quote:

---

Since the sequel(s) are almost upon us, I guess I'll repost this idea... cept the first time around I had just watched the movie and it was still fresh in my mind. Not so much now, so work with me here people. I remember it centered around Oracle's prophecies, for those with dvd's and so on, watch and listen to those scenes closely. In these scenes are possible hints that Neo is NOT "The One". First off, all Oracle really tells Neo is that he has "the gift" and that "he's waiting for something", rather cryptic.
Look carefully at the children in Oracle's care, are the children displaying "the gift"? If a child can bend a spoon or levitate an alphabet block which is generated by the Matrix. How hard would it be for that child with the continued training to stop a bullet or fly or for that matter destroy a Matrix Sentinel? It's all created by the Matrix. Bending spoons, all of it are proverbial "parlor tricks".

Morpheus, Trinity, Neo(til the end), or any of the previous heroes on the other hand, do not display these "gifts". They can only bend the rules to an extent, but these kids and later Neo seem to break them. I believe this is Neo's true purpose, when the kids are ready, he'lllead them against the Matrix. A New brand of resistance fighters, hence the name, Neo.

But Neo's "waiting for something", and not just those kids to be ready to fight. I believe he's also waiting for "The One." So then who is "The One"?

Morpheus, that's who. The shaper. The god of dreams. The man who was prophesied by Oracle to find "The One", ironically. The same man who says that Oracle only said what you needed to hear when Neo had doubts. "There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path", hmm... good one, Morpheus. Not til the very end of part 3 tho. Which I'll assume would be "The One"/Morpheus making the sacrifice to be become one with the Matrix, thus once again, as before a human would control the Matrix. You didn't think all the people were gonna be freed, did you? Thousands, maybe Millions freed to where? A nuclear wasteland or to dwell in an underground city? For now they must stay in the Matrix. Morpheus making this sacrifice also follows in line with something else Oracle said to Neo. But I forget what exactly something about Morpheus being so convinced that he'll find the one that he'll sacrifice himeself. Dunno about that one.

Feedback your own ideas.

---

nobody was in a state to take that thread further sadly. i just resurrected it, as a couple of my friends seem to have come back. i thought it might add to the conversation here.

~faery

------------------
where i end and you begin there's a gap in between there's a gap where we meet where i end and you begin
and i'm sorry for us the dinosaurs roam the earth the sky turns green where i end and you begin

posted August 08, 2003 03:56 PM         

PS: I was also surprised that reviewers panned the second one so badly. I didn't think it was bad at all, although I did tune out during Neo's conversation with the Architect.

posted August 09, 2003 11:51 AM         

actually i have to see it again and again and again and again... you know

~faery

------------------
where i end and you begin there's a gap in between there's a gap where we meet where i end and you begin
and i'm sorry for us the dinosaurs roam the earth the sky turns green where i end and you begin

posted August 09, 2003 03:29 PM         

@)(&!(%&

That really makes me angry.

posted August 09, 2003 04:29 PM         

~electronifaery

------------------
where i end and you begin there's a gap in between there's a gap where we meet where i end and you begin
and i'm sorry for us the dinosaurs roam the earth the sky turns green where i end and you begin

posted August 10, 2003 02:13 PM         

Someone (I think it was Randall) posted something similar as you Ana some months ago. In there I was one (probably didn't make me at all popular ) of the people who didn't 'get' or liked the film AT ALL!!!!! I am not sorry to say, I am just flabbagasted!
Ok, the story, the philosophy behind it...I didn't get but I am sure it was there and I am sorry that I missed out on that. Maybe it was the wrong time for us to go and see this movie, there is always something as bio rythm and moods etc... Plus the fact that the whole film made me flabbagasted from second one and somewhat had me in a questionmark.
But....the BIG BUT....to me is that I found it sure as can be a big hollywood production (and what is wrong with that??). Maybe it was too focussed on the philosophy behind it, tried to come accross with a story, a message but it failed. The story might have been there...SURE but they didn't take into a account the slow building up of the emotions/feelings/thoughts of the characters in the film. It was like:" oh yeah, we are supposed to put one erotic bit in as well so let's throw it over here." Come on! That totally didn't make sense AT ALL! Where was the emotion? I was so dissapointed! Or the big clubbing thing with the dancing people. Pffff! And I have seen this in many of the newest movies. Certainly the ones that are so cyberish. It is all great, the special effects, it looks cool, but please don't forget we are still souls made out of LOVE. It feels so empty. Like Star wars did to me. Sure, it might be a different kind of movie and it doesn't necessarily need to have emotion but that's what I NEED TO SEE! So...we are all different. We all 'need' something else.
I LOVED the first one for the same reasons bauschd mentioned for instance. It was gently and carefully build up. It was a film. YOu could follow and understand. And please...DON'T say that 'THOSE' people are stupid or have no imagination. Geeez!! That hurts. Maybe when one would see it a year after he would like it better, or different. There are sooo many sides, so many dimensions as to why people don't like it, don't get it etc..
But the fact to me remains that it was done for big bucks, money, money, money! It was too much (too long and boring) fighting and action, noise which made your ears plop out and it was too much on the forefront. Do you think it is strange that I didn't follow the story, I was too annoyed. Leaving the character in the void. Aaargh, I don't know if I can make myself clear but...I HAD to reply because I am so amazed!
When we sat down and the movie began we already didn't 'get' it anymore. Maybe our heads were in the clouds and we were not ready to watch a movie together just yet. Well I don't believe that.

So, sorry I missed out on the whole deepness thing and that's why I should see it again but I don't wish to see it again because I really dislike the whole attitude of the film.