posted September 03, 2004 08:07 PM         

Mike I think that to suppress the negative might not be the thing to do either, I think that the "negative" should just be re-directed to become positive. I was following the thought that maybe evil is just a parasite force because it could not really exist without twisting/shifting the positive (if I explained that properly). What is needed is a re-direction.

posted September 04, 2004 07:40 PM         

Nice quote

posted September 05, 2004 09:40 AM         

silverbells do you mean parasidic as in a very angry person feels comfotable and releved after dishing out anger, so therefore indirectly feeds on the pain of others. Or are we talking of external forces that curupt and twist things for plesure, but then whilst writing this i can see a similarity between both examples. hmmm interesting whats your thoughts?

i probably wont be back for a week or so as im going to france to see my parents but look forward to chatting again

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you kill a man in my name
when all i teach is not to mame. --unknown--

posted September 05, 2004 01:35 PM         

quote:

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I did see what you said about "self-caused misery". I was just wondering if you thought deep down that when push came to shove, the lightening could come down at any moment.

---

Nope, I don't think that at all. I also don't think it's a good idea to tempt fate, however. For example, everytime I've said, "I'll never", like, "I would never drive that far to work/commute over that bridge, what are those people thinking?", or something like that, fate ended me up doing exactly that thing I said I'd never do.

But no, I don't believe lightning bolts will come flashing out of the sky at someone for a transgression.

When people "badmouth" god, they're usually lamenting something - my view is, be thankful for what you've got, and thankful for what you haven't got, because things could always get worse - why tempt fate by not appreciating what IS good in one's life?

posted September 15, 2004 08:22 AM         

In the same sense that looking at a painting without lies all you see is coloured oil on canvas. but looking at it with lies and focusing on the truth it is a beautiful rendition of a man standing on a beach looking out across the ocean at the setting sun.

Another way of looking at it is pleasure and pain.
if you lightly brush your tummy with a finger it is slightly pleasurable.
if you scratch your stomach with your nail it is slightly painful.
there are two ways of dealing with this, you can avoid being scratched (or put up with it) and therefore still enjoy the light touch.
or you can remove all nerve endings and feel nothing.

now im not saying there is no truth because that would be a lie
but what i am saying is that we cannot remove lies we can only judge them to the best of our ability.
which means that unfortunately some people twist the truth in order to get what they want or to prove a point; which begs the question have I?
All i can say to that is, if i have it was not intentional.

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you kill a man in my name
when all i teach is not to mame. --unknown--

posted September 15, 2004 08:28 PM         

Also, I edited my post before this one, to convey my meaning more clearly.

posted September 16, 2004 10:45 AM         

silverbells
i can't see your edit but i think i get your point in that a thing/being is what it is and no matter what is said or believed the truth is the truth. and i totally agree with you

i guess my point is that truth and lie are polarities and both rely, not upon each other, but on the object being described. (although a clever lie would incorporate some truth in order to make it believable)
And the only way to ensure no lies can be said about an object, is to remove the object in which case the truth is also removed.

sesame
what we perceive as the truth isn't necessarily the truth, but we may need to perceive it as the truth in order to realise we do actualy know the truth

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you kill a man in my name
when all i teach is not to mame. --unknown--

posted September 16, 2004 12:05 PM         

I`ve contemplated some of the same. If we Know a truth and deny it, are we lieing? If we Experience a lie, can we then Experience Truth?

If we badmouth God/dess, are we badmouthing ourselves, our brothers and sisters Seeking S/he?

posted September 17, 2004 09:26 PM         

Which i think also answers juniperbs question about badmouthing God with this line
" The highest level is the pure self, and at this level there is no duality, no separation from God."

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you kill a man in my name
when all i teach is not to mame. --unknown--

posted September 18, 2004 03:29 AM         

I think in pictures. I think something suffers in the translation.

posted September 18, 2004 12:52 PM         

hmmmm now im confused because i can see the validity of both arguments.
maybe a third perspective is needed.

maybe it comes down to potential lies?
are the lies still there just not being told?
do we create lies or just use them?

is it the betterment of mankind in breaking the cycle?

maybe looking at it in the form of a known polarity will help

if we choose to love is there no hate?
if we choose to hate is there no love?

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you kill a man in my name
when all i teach is not to mame. --unknown--

posted September 18, 2004 01:26 PM         

I think there is a big difference between Truth and truth. In truth it's smaller and almost inconsequential - for instance if a kid takes a cookie and then says that no they did not take it, it's a lie. But in Truth, it's a matter of permanence. Is it the Truth of your being - the core of your soul. Truth does not change. Take the ten commandments - though shall not kill. Is there ever an acception to the rule? Yes, I'm a meat-eater so my food has to be killed therefore killing does have an acception and is not a universal Truth. If a mosquito lands on me , I slap it. (Please no anti-meat eating comments - It's the concept I'm trying to explain.)It's a matter of either coming from fear or love. Fear is impermanent therefore not Truth. Love (not a feeling) is permanent therefore Truth.

To Pisces/Tiger I find it interesting that you are an atheist and using the "Pisces..." name. Following astrology and being an atheist is a contradiction. Or did you just pick that name?

To Fox or other atheists. Have you delved into comparative religion? at one time I was an atheist, but found that in reality my old belief system crashed down and I was just in-between my old beliefs and rebuilding my new belief system. Unless you know what the difference between Hinduism, New thought and Christian Science are you are probably basing your atheist view on the religion/value system you were raised with. Most likely it is the view that God is out there somewhere and is somehow controlling all of this. There are many other views. Some believe that we are collectively God, or collectively one and then interconnected with a energy/God force. The beliefs are endless.

posted September 18, 2004 04:01 PM         

You bring an interesting point. If you are really searching for the truth then let me point you to the character of Yudhistar (or Yudhistara or Yudhisthara) in the Indian epic Mahabharat.

Its a must study of his character, to understand the laws of dharma and to understand the consequences of truth and lies.

Regards,

posted September 18, 2004 09:18 PM         

*edit* What you said about Love and hate mike: I think that without Love, hate would not exist because I think that hate is Love dissappointed but Love can exist all day long without hate because unlike hate, Love is not a dependant energy.

posted September 18, 2004 09:36 PM         

your words:
"Can tell the truth about something that can't be told a lie about"

Are you saying Truth is absolute and lie is not?

When a lie statement is spoken.
The truth is the statement is lie

posted September 19, 2004 11:28 PM         

You had to choose the door that tolf the truth:

Door one "Choose door two, I'm lying"

Door two "He is lying"

So door two is the one to go through as he was telling the truth, but his first statement was a lie - but he admitted it!