Posts: 258
From: minneapolis minnesota USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted February 16, 2005 03:11 AM         

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I just realized today that the karma cycle seems to begin when the "victim" TRULY forgives. Not forgets, but forgives. It would make sense for this to be the way it works because it seems as though the really bad stuff like murder etc. carry on through to the next life (or so i've heard from many) so if that was the case, (a murder or something horrific)then most people don't TRULY forgive. Therefore, it would carry on to the next life because the "victim" hadn't forgiven until possibly death or many many years after reaching a higher state of conciousness. I thought of this having several unheathy relationships through time, and having something bad happen, then, just when the relationship gets fully better, something bad happens to them in a similar fashion to the original offense. Anyone have any thoughts?

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Posts: 515
From: Vic, Australia
Registered: Jan 2004

posted February 16, 2005 05:47 AM         

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I do have similar thoughts Tracy.
I found the only way to happiness and growth is with the way of forgiveness.
I see forgiveness as breaking the chains of karma, and at times we find it very difficult to forgive. Because you can't truly forgive someone just by telling yourself to, it's something you have to believe, and have genuine, heart felt reason to.
Otherwise it becomes a game of tug and war, and constantly we are falling trapped in the waves of karma.
It seems like the atmosphere of today says if your a victim, then it's ok, and forgiveness is out of the question because you don't owe anything.
Although, I see it in another light, and that is a victim is the person with the opportunity to forgive, and to learn a lesson or two, as it was already predetermained.
At the end of the day, we are responsible for our own realities.

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"And dreams, don't ever forget, are the first step in manifesting wishes into reality"-- Linda Goodman's Star Signs

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Posts: 214
From: Rochester Hills, MI USA
Registered: May 2004

posted February 16, 2005 09:05 AM         

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I agree. For me forgiveness is acceptance. Something happened, it wasn't good and it just is, no judgement. I think many feel that forgiveness means ok, you did me wrong and I wont try to do you wrong back. That is not forgiveness because the judgement remains. Forgiveness means no judgement. I beleive your life will open up to unbelievable wonder and positive stuff if you can let go of judgement.

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Posts: 258
From: minneapolis minnesota USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted February 16, 2005 04:59 PM         

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My views on forgiveness are that forgiveness is not just accepting that wrong has been done to you. It is easy to forget and accept. The difficult part is to truly put it behind and love the "source" of the wrong doing every bit as much as you would have otherwise, because it's easy to accept but it is very difficult to completely diminish every trace of resentment you feel about it. Truly how many can really say that they honestly feel no resentment about every situation. I do agree strongly of what sunchild said about the way society teaches us not to forgive, and I feel everyone should (even if the "wrong do-er" does recieve the karma, because of the total forgiveness it breaks the chain and causes instant karma)learn to completely forgive. I was saying from my experience, especially with the horrific stuff that it can be extremely hard, although not to accept. Also, accepting could be a bad thing if you are accepting something and letting it continue. And on that note, it's really hard to forgive if you have to be around it and watch the "wrong do-er" think it's okay because you've accepted it.

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Posts: 6064
From: the stars
Registered: Jun 2004

posted February 16, 2005 08:02 PM         

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*edit*

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Posts: 258
From: minneapolis minnesota USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted February 16, 2005 10:28 PM         

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I totally feel what you're saying 26, I too seem to be stuck with an endless cycle of bad luck being an 11, which is really bad because it's true what it says about not wanting to see the bad in things. Then it only gets worse. love does conquer all. Things will get better. I'm changing my middle name to Salome, it will change my maiden name (which it would have gone back to after my divorce is final) to a 24 instead of a 26 so i really know what you mean. Currently I am a 25, and being that, i believe has sent me on a straight course to the real deal spiritual awakening, although i have been studying these things here and there for about 7 or 8 years. So theres a perfect example of how something terrible (my marriage in which my husband left me and my children for a *lut and i don't say that out of resentment) is really something beautiful and important.Patience and not letting myself be angry or upset for trivial reasons such as she must do this or that for him etc. has really helped me learn the lesson, and as for him, he will learn his lesson in jail and get sick all of the unhealthy things he does (except gambling) as it says in his lexigram and he is also surely headed to jail. I agree how frustrating it is though. You can't make people learn, as linda said "When the student is ready the teacher will appear" Have you given any thought to changing your name?

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Posts: 5596
From: Big Dipper
Registered: Mar 2002

posted February 16, 2005 10:57 PM         

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Hello ladies, an eight, eleven or , as myself, a twenty two, it`s numbers ey

Excellent direction & insight from them, but not the be all / end all.

We have "The Keeper of Faith; The Giver of Peace " that we may all call upon when life seems out of control. If we can do so, life seems less burdensome ( not perfect mind you, but the test may be revealed).

Tracysalome, love and lite to you and your children. I have been in your position and know the responsibility and needs.

26, God/dess is at your mere thought and is a Prayer away.

May we always take the gifts of our God/dess and blossom to our potential

Love,

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If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot

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Posts: 99
From: Kerman, Ca, USA
Registered: Jul 2004

posted February 16, 2005 11:14 PM         

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I just finished reading the chapter on Karma in Star Signs, and find myself deeply moved by Linda's words. I feel the wisdom of forgiveness in my heart, and am doing my best every day to reach that level. I've reached the point of acceptance, but am not quite to the point of loving and letting go.

TracySalome, I'm also divorced with two little ones. My ex didn't leave for another woman, but he did leave our lives for good. It took a lot of inner strength and resilence, but I'm thankful for the lesson and I am unable to imagine life w/o my two angels.

26, I love your posts at LL You come across as such a great person, I sincerely hope you feel better soon.

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Posts: 258
From: minneapolis minnesota USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted February 17, 2005 02:58 AM         

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Thank you Juniperb and Deira, Love and light to your children as well, as well as linda lands children and all the children of the world the wonderful little fairys and elves that they are. Don't they all resemble in toddlerhood? I was just thinking before I got online about how every single being is but a teacher or a student of "god" or god force energy. To learn the lessons intended to learn and then return to the god or god force creator upon departing. It made me think about the whole pieces of souls that come together to make one and twin selves and such - like a buddy system to make sure each isn't mislead into the wrong path. It's just too bad that even how very complex a human is violence and anger is so exploited and fashionable. But I guess that's one big test too. Hope 26 is better now too. I like her insights.

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Posts: 6064
From: the stars
Registered: Jun 2004

posted February 17, 2005 10:40 AM         

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*edit*

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Posts: 22
From: canada
Registered: Jun 2004

posted February 18, 2005 10:52 PM         

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to me the hardest thing is to forgive but not forget. it is a lesson of forgivness that is difficult to master. you think of a wrong done to you and try to forget it. and many people think thats enough to break the chain so to speak. but to live in reconcilation that a wrong has been done and then to forgive it is masterful. all the power to you to forgive and let live. life is good.

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Posts: 1367
From: Fart Ann, NY
Registered: Oct 2004

posted February 18, 2005 11:01 PM         

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The hardest thing for me, is to believe that forgiving is the best answer, when everytime I have done it the same person bites me in the ass the same exact way they did before. If you keep forgiving you keep setting yourself up for the same old b.s., I don't see the point.

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Posts: 258
From: minneapolis minnesota USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted February 19, 2005 01:16 AM         

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I agree also with you both dogstar and virgotaurustaurus, i totally agree with the part about setting yourself up too, and i've noticed also the problem with that because it's like you can forgive and get on with life, and let it happen again if that person deceides to take advantage again, or forgive and leave and make that person upset because you left and got on with your life instead of giving them another chance, so where is the line exactly on that where you can forgive without getting it again and without hurting them, linda has also said that you should forgive, but it doesn't mean you have to stay in a situation that you are constantly being bombarded with bad stuff, and you also have to take into consideration what karmic debts you may owe - I guess you just have to use your intuition to know when is when.

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Posts: 16
From: Sacramento, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted February 21, 2005 10:32 PM         

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what if the other person dosnt understand karma nor believes in it?? how can you truly know who was the victim. i sometimes feel i am the victim but im always so nice to this person that i feel im making up for something? can you forgive and go on with your life or do you have to forgive and work on the relationship all over?

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Posts: 1922
From: Douglas, AZ. USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted February 22, 2005 12:29 PM         

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How do you know if you have truely forgiven?
Perhaps the people who raised you have taken your ability to understand what it means to truely forgive? I know there are different levels of forgiveness, like forgiving your brother for spilling juice all over your favorite outfit when you were both ten. What if you do not know how to feel the word?

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Posts: 258
From: minneapolis minnesota USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted February 22, 2005 09:54 PM         

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Good point Philbird, i guess i didn't think about someone not knowing what forgiveness is. So i guess, if they never learn what it is they will never know therefore never forgive for those things that are beside petty quarrels. I was never taught about forgiveness. Now that you mentioned "the being raised by" i don't remember my parents ever bringing it up. They didn't really teach me much of anything which i am actually grateful for because learning it myself by experience has prevented me from being fooled into thinking the wrong thing.True forgiveness takes time for me, i realized it after a few years of not talking to the father of my son (of whom i used to have very severe emotional issues with) I used to hate him. truly. he tried to take my son away from me just to hurt me. In turn hurting my son. Anyway, we finally talked one day about our son and argued about splitting our time with him, but when we were done, I realized, he no longer had the power to make me angry, and it wasn't just because we weren't dating anymore, it was because i had forgiven him. truly. thats an example. I wish it was like that in every situation except quicker and easier.

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Posts: 1922
From: Douglas, AZ. USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted February 23, 2005 10:16 AM         

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Good points Tracy. I know how to forgive adults, as an adult. Like an ex who was very abusive. I know I was a contributer to the abuse by allowing it to happen. I'm talking about forgiving an adult who has abused a child. How do you know if you have forgiven them?

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Posts: 1922
From: Douglas, AZ. USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted February 23, 2005 10:43 AM         

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Edited because I couldn't say it gracefully.

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Posts: 1367
From: Fart Ann, NY
Registered: Oct 2004

posted February 23, 2005 05:00 PM         

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*edited****

forget it. I don't know how I even implied vicitmization/abuse in my reply.

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Posts: 1922
From: Douglas, AZ. USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted February 23, 2005 07:19 PM         

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I was connecting your name because you mentioned you keep getting bit. My post was an in- general post, really.

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Posts: 515
From: Vic, Australia
Registered: Jan 2004

posted February 23, 2005 08:49 PM         

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Reading the end of the thread, a few questions popped up about forgivenss, and how do you know if you have Truly Forgiven?
IMO, that's when it gets inner deep, and really meaningful, and really, isn't that a perfect question to ask your ownsElf?

And to truly know the meaning of the word, isn't that the same as having reason to forgive also? Wanting to know how to by 'the meaning of the word' is for your own self to define.

A victim is given an opportunity, not only to forgive, but to learn to Forgive.
Just because a person isn't aware of Karma, that doesn't negate karma, if anything- the other person is still strongly affected by karma. By forgiving a person who wouldn't expect forgivness, may, and probably will, make them question themselves.

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"And dreams, don't ever forget, are the first step in manifesting wishes into reality"-- Linda Goodman's Star Signs

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Posts: 1922
From: Douglas, AZ. USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted February 23, 2005 09:01 PM         

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Oh, Sunchild..."By forgiving a person who wouldn't expect forgivness, may, and probably will, make them question themselves."
I've been waiting 40 years to hear that. I'm starting to cry. You can't imagine what that did to me, I know now how to start forgiving. I will remember you always.

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Posts: 515
From: Vic, Australia
Registered: Jan 2004

posted February 23, 2005 09:06 PM         

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I heard YOU Philbird.

Big Hug for You!

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"And dreams, don't ever forget, are the first step in manifesting wishes into reality"-- Linda Goodman's Star Signs

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Posts: 258
From: minneapolis minnesota USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted February 23, 2005 10:57 PM         

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Theres no way i could answer that one because I haven't reached a point in my life where i can control my feelings on that. The abuse of children makes me horribly angry, and I just can't understand how this can be done. It just makes me really angry - so I really have no idea. These crimes, i think are the worst crimes that could EVER be committed. And I don't believe some of the sentances dished out in comparison to other crimes that are lesser and recieve longer sentances.

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Posts: 601
From: Edison, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2004

posted February 24, 2005 12:13 AM         

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In case of abusers, even if you did completely forgive, God will not forgive the person who causes the child to stumble.

I know one abuser who abused lot of children in neighborhood. He was crushed to death very horribly. It happened very late but it did happen eventually.

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