posted July 10, 2006 06:44 PM         

Most major religions, to some degree or other, talk about letting go of the ego and giving one's self to charitable service to move closer to and please God.

Therefor, if enlightenment/nirvana is what a person is searching for and is most important to them....well then....does it mean that the more selfless one becomes, the better they are? Or is there a balance? Where does one draw the line? Is it wrong to enjoy wordly pleasures....or are the 'wordly' things that please the senses all a major part of the whole; this experience.....

My theory, you see, is that the physical and spiritual combined complete each other....that this world around us has things in it which are both profoundly beautful and profoundly ugly- cruelty....but there is more, so much more to it than what we just see.

So, if one want to become more and more spiritual and move closer to God, do they need to become less and less materialistic, only having what they need to really survive on and keep them strong enough to help others?
Or would they then loose themself; their own identity...would that then hold them back from a certain amount of enlightenment?

How much money should one give to charity? If people ae dying, is it wrong to keep something for a simple pleasure when that small amount could be given to save a person, or an animal's life?

I've heard it said, and read it somewhere, that 'for every action, there is an opposite reaction'. Does that mean that if you do something good, that somehow- by the law of metaphysics- it will result in something else bad happening, and vice-versa. An example. Something bad happens to someone, but through that incident they become more compassionate and understanding. I need to think of some other examples...maybe later (its late, lol).
Must it always be that what comes up must always come down, symbolically speaking- or only in this dimension? Or is that faulse anyway. Negativity and positivity. Does negativity only spread more negativity, or does it attract positivity?

Am I rambling?

Am I the only one who likes to procrastinate in this way, thinking these things?

I going to bed now, night night

posted July 10, 2006 09:48 PM         

I have struggeled with this much myself. I feel that balance is the key. We are after all humans and we must live here on earth. As much as I would like to think that I am a spiritual being, and I am, but I am stuck in a human body!

Old Zen Proverb.......

Before enlightenment
chopping wood, hauling water
After enlightenment
chopping wood, hauling water....

posted July 11, 2006 02:42 AM         

But it's a LONG journey. There is nothing wrong with a red dress. It is an imaginary playmate to enjoy. After you wear the red dress for the party, if you can afford to, give it to the women's shelter or to a friend who would feel it was a blessing to receive the red dress.

Just be mindful. Keep watching your choices. Be gentle with yourself first, that is difficult enough.
This is why you have to go sit on a mountaintop away from the rest of the world to find enlightenment. I would really love to meet a monk who spends 40 plus hours a week welding or working at McDonalds. That's a man whose philosophy I could get behind. (Actually, I recently spoke to a Buddist monk who has similar struggles to our own, whose new life is helping him find peace. I drive through monastaries sometimes just to feel the overwhelming peace there.)
I would also like to meet someone with an army of ants infesting their home who carries every one of the little darlings outside to live free in nature. Awww. Or maybe they would just live in harmony along-side their new thirteen hundred pets. (Visual of my favorite inspirational Libra, Ghandi, sitting on an ant hill.) I would guess it's a lot easier to blow kisses at passing insects and vermin when they are not gnawing on your children. It's beautiful to respect all life, but respecting your own life and the lives of your children comes before ants.
This is the danger of getting snippets of philosophies. Bits of information are easily misinterpreted without the cohesion of the whole. Respect for life doesn't mean never taking a walk because you might step on an ant or never breathing in because you might kill some microscopic life. Energy doesn't die anyway, it just takes different forms.
We are meant to use our energy and gifts to make life and the world a better place in the sphere of influence we are assigned. Some are assigned larger spheres of influence with greater responsibilities. We each do our part to keep our little areas clean and help where we can. Assuming we can only help if we become enlightened masters and do everything perfectly is an arrogant waste of time.
I am talking to myself as much as to your post, so no offense. Most of the time I probably wasn't even completely addressing your comments. Just my stream of thought. Clearly your worries have served a purpose in inspiring myself and others to think of these issues. That is a blessing.

posted July 11, 2006 03:16 AM         

I, too, have been facing this,... trying to figure that balence part... What I have applied to my own life, so far, is an awareness of how I encounter. I think that anything one does, always has a selfish part but, ( which then leaves the impression that selfless doesn't ever occur... ) I also think that selfish and self-preserving, are both seen in the 'bad' a lot. I, personally believe, that intention is a key to balence but, I am still learning as well...

posted July 11, 2006 08:15 AM         

Trees, to answer your questions more specifically, selfishness/selflessness really is very subjective. I used to love how Linda would repeat Jesus and say "Give to all that ask" but I can't shake the notion that this was when times weren't so hard. I'm sure all eras are similar, but when you hear of "homeless" people that make several hundred dollars a week from begging, or charities that swallow most of the donations and maybe use them for advertising, really starts making me a sceptic. I do give to charity, and due to life changes had to cut one. I feel the difference in my life, but feel that maybe that money would be better in a different charity. Giving one's time is definitely a great thing to do, as many people need help that money doesn't provide. Human touch goes a long way, but who really has time? Your own personal happiness in this existance is also a blessed thing. I can't shake the feeling that some people will suck you dry of energy if given the chance. If a bully that picked on you and caused shyness or nuerosis throughout your childhood and adolesence asked for some money, would you give it to her? What if this act negates all past behaviours of both your lives? What if she takes it and gets drunk and asks for more money? What if your contribution to her alcoholism makes things worse between you? You really can't know any of things, hence you must listen to your heart (and less to trees - but no, don't stop doing that).

My point is that so much in this life creates stress and problems. We are all so intricately connected, so really, you should concentrate on your own life above all others. Become a corner stone, not a weak foundation. I have a saying I've thought of recently: "Stop being a human doing, and become a human being" (losely taken from Conversations with God). A book I'm reading at the moment is called "Ishmael" and has a great Koan quote (and is a great book in general):

quote:

---

"With man gone,
will there be hope
for gorilla?"

---

Heaps of Love,
Dean.

------------------
I realized it for the first time in my life:
there is nothing but mystery in the world,
how it hides behind the fabric of our poor,
browbeat days, shining brightly, and we don't even know it.

Sue Monk Kidd, "The Secret Life of Bees", p79

posted July 11, 2006 02:37 PM         

And I really agree with what each of you said.

MysticMelody- apparently some essential oils are repellent to ants if used on the floor It might take longer, but my friend tried it, and eventually they did go away....I also read in a book-not sure if its true (Betty Shine) that you can telepathically communicate to creatures, and you can, if you do it right, ask an animal like a rat or creature such as an ant to leave, rather than resort to killing it! Oh, what a lovely idea

Seseme, I do agree that there are some people who will drain others- I had an experience- and those sort of people aren't worth bothering with- respect! To have the wisdom of respect is a gift, and if people are indulged by others to be selfish- well, that doesn't help.
Interesting.....a "cornerstone" or a "weak foundation"....I get a basic idea of what this means, but is there more I'm not getting?

If a person was to become completely selfless, would they loose their own sense of S-elf; their personality, their own mind/desires...their own soul journey? Would that in turn hold progress of the whole species back, just a tiny bit, as far as that person's input goes?
What do you guys think?

posted July 11, 2006 04:10 PM         

It was my old animal rights pal who used the oils on the floor- I left that movement after finding it too 'militant'...and she was extremely selfless; I think of her when I think of this stuff- I admired her but often felt she neglected herself too much- she needed to take time out to recharge her batterees.

posted July 11, 2006 05:42 PM         

Everyone has expressed beautifully. The key point being balance. We must constantly listen to God. This ain't a joke. Very few really understands this universe to be a living breathing entity so to speak and we are an integral part of this body.

Everyone is called with a purpose (even before they are born) and as long as that is satisfied, its ok to lead a purposeless life.

When the cosmos was created, everyone was born with atleast [Edited on 7/17 this sentence to add clarity] one latent potential and everyone may have been expected to become wholesome with that. However we accumulated Vasanas over several years of existence that prohibits us to see our truer self. How is this different than a apple seed becoming an apple tree? After all each apple seed becomes apple tree. But are all apple trees identical? When we really introspect the tree much closer each leaf is unique, in their prints. It is said God has numbered everyone. How true that is and how intelligent is this universe. To lead a purposeless life is to "Eat when eating, and Sleep when sleeping" What ever action we do we must do with complete concentration.

I can go on and on, but afraid it will become too philosophical.

posted July 11, 2006 06:58 PM         

I did not respond to the question of 'action/reaction'

Karma includes the action that a being performs and it also includes the result of that work. Now heres the key thing to understand : Our universe is really really intelligent. Being very intelligent it is also equinamous (everything is equal for it.).

Every passing second every being does some sort of action. There are harmful bacterias beind destroyed in your guts right now and you may not even be aware hahaha....Didn't mean to scare you. But the point is with every action that happens , the universe has to respond with reaction. If its good, in someother part of the universe the bad must also happen. And vice versa. As an enlightened being our aim must be to maximise the good ness that will happen in the universe. If everything is equal how can that happen There are so many practical situations that one can apply.
Fact 1: Do not overeat.
Why? How is the energy that builds extra fat on stomach helping you in your daily lives?
Fact 2: Do not oversleep. Our body really needs 2 hours of deep sleep state. How are you helping the universe by sleeping extra?

Fact 3: Should I eat chicken sandwich or cheese burger? Hope its easy to answer that hehehe..

Well I could go on....

To step off the wheel of karma is to become one with the intelligence of the universe, the Lawgiver who dictates everything. You have only heard the expression 'the city never sleeps.' but its the God who does not sleep even for a second after the cosmos gets created. Lets leave the topic on when God sleep's later

posted July 12, 2006 07:34 PM         

Mannu, ever read Ishmael? I think you should. Get back to me.

posted July 13, 2006 03:23 AM         

quote:

---

My theory, you see, is that the physical and spiritual combined complete each other....that this world around us has things in it which are both profoundly beautful and profoundly ugly- cruelty....but there is more, so much more to it than what we just see.

So, if one want to become more and more spiritual and move closer to God, do they need to become less and less materialistic, only having what they need to really survive on and keep them strong enough to help others?

---

I believe that one of the greatest problems has been the material. Many people become greedy and allow the material to govern their lives. In the end, we don't take the material with us; the things we truly treasure are found within ourselves.

Cheers,

posted July 13, 2006 05:52 AM         

Mannu, your knowledge is very interesting. May I ask, what is your source of your study? Just curious

Sesame, yes, we have come a long way....who knows what the future may hold...still- will good win over bad/greed/violence before it all goes wrong? Who knows...

Silverstone- yes- the material is to blame for a lot of the world's ills...I believe that we need to balance out material with the spiritual in another sense- we need more of the spirituality of the east in the west to acchieve our balance, and they would be helped if they had more of our material....but when the spiritual and material are balanced then people will see that we don't need to harm our forests/trees!

posted July 15, 2006 07:58 AM         

quote:

---

"Sesame, yes, we have come a long way....who knows what the future may hold...still- will good win over bad/greed/violence before it all goes wrong? Who knows..."

---

I could attempt to answer some here, but it won't be as clear. Would you like me to try?

posted July 15, 2006 02:06 PM         

to take a life is an abomination..against the Universal Laws..and God MOther and Father..