|
Author
|
Topic: The children will always suffer the sins of their fathers
|
silverstone
unregistered
|
posted October 12, 2006 10:20 AM
I was watching this movie and there was a line in the movie that struck me: The children will always suffer the sins of their fathers
While I do not believe this is exactly true, there was something very compelling about it
Silverstone 
------------------
The only other sound's the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake. The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep. ~Robert Frost IP: Logged |
artlovesdawn
unregistered
|
posted October 13, 2006 12:09 AM
..IP: Logged |
Gooberzlostlovefound
unregistered
|
posted October 13, 2006 09:29 PM
Yeah, that is a striking line.As artlovesdawn mentioned, bad habits can be passed down through families. Often the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. BUT...I still think there is hope for all of us. Some have to work harder than others to transcend their conditioning, but it is always possible.  IP: Logged |
Nephthys
Moderator Posts: 133
From: California
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted October 13, 2006 11:59 PM
Hmmmm.......what you said reminds me of group karma. We are part of a family, which is part of a community, which is part of a society.....etc. I think it all attributes to group karma. Also, what affects one, affects all. If you throw a rock in a lake, the waves travel outward in a large distribution. So do people's actions. They could have also meant "founding fathers." For example, we are following and living by the rules/laws set in the United States under the "founding fathers" who wrote the Constitution. Perhaps in some way, these "laws" are viewed as sins, in some form, by another country/society/culture? IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
unregistered
|
posted October 14, 2006 12:04 AM
Very profound Nephthys..I think what you said holds alot of merit...for only in the beginning, did we know Truth! IP: Logged |
maklhouf
unregistered
|
posted October 14, 2006 05:43 AM
We have to be humble: "good intentions pave the way to hell". The village in india whose people are poisoned by the arsenic in the well that "good" people sunk to "help" them know that.------------------
And I will give thee the treasures of darkness
Isiah 45:3 IP: Logged |
silverstone
unregistered
|
posted October 15, 2006 03:39 AM
Thanks for sharing all of you  ------------------
The only other sound's the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake. The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep. ~Robert Frost IP: Logged |
Lialei
unregistered
|
posted October 15, 2006 10:48 AM
I think the most truth that can be found in that is collectively.
For instance, an American Indian chief's belief when making decisions, is to take into consideration how the lives of children 7 generations into the future will be affected. Sadly, in the U.S., anyway, our leaders don't have the ability for the same sort of caring consideration, or ability to think in such respectful, broader terms.
So, therefore future generations will suffer.  On an individual level, though, I think it is more uniquely determined by each person's character.
Children are born pure, but if a parent teaches them to steal, lie, etc...they will grow believing this is ok and normal. That will be their conditioning.
As for negative energy transferring to the child,
I don't believe this is so at least at birth. But true in the energy of the environment they are raised in, yes. I had a very stressful, emotionally intense pregnancy and I worried this would affect my baby, as he grew inside of me. He is 2 years old now; happy and carefree. It seemed to have no affect on him, thankfully. 
Also, I know a lot of people have strong beliefs that their childhood and relationships with their Mother and Father are the most profound influence on their lives. Influencing their every response in relations to others.
But as a Sagittarian, who has always felt myself as individual very early on, although I realize and take into account that others are more greatly influenced, I have a familial detatchment, that although I do feel its importance, I wouldn't believe that it had such intense lasting effects upon me. I was seperating and forming my own Truth long, long ago... IP: Logged |
Lialei
unregistered
|
posted October 15, 2006 10:49 AM
(split, due to rambling  )...For instance, hearing childhood stories from me and my two brothers (both water signs), you'd think we grew up in an entirely different household. From me, you'd hear of a perfect fairyland world of beauty and love, but from them you'd hear of every parental 'mistake' magnified...that they've held onto an entire lifetime.
I never noticed mistakes...just always felt they were doing their best with what they were given. I never had the same criticism or expectation of them. I have all water sign children, so I'm careful to take that into account. And honestly a bit scared at times as well.  So, I think this is a very individual thing, depending on the child's own nature.
Obviously, some personal childhood situations would be much more difficult to transcend. Such as childhoods of abuse and neglect. The more severe, the more difficult to overcome the profound effect.
It's a general saying that while I don't believe is always true, I believe in the possibility that it can be entirely true as well.
Anyway, it's a good thing to keep in mind, so to protect the delicate innocences of children.
We are the caretakers of their innocence,
and so our responsibility in this way should be treated so gratefully, with sensitive care and respect. IP: Logged |
geminstone
unregistered
|
posted October 16, 2006 08:09 AM
Ok, so I'm going to go with a kind of odd, biological line of thinking... Is it not the male's sperm that decides the sex of a baby...?  I suppose that may just be the simplest way to think about that line, but it was the first thought about it that popped into my head, upon reading it....~ geminstone IP: Logged |
Mirandee
unregistered
|
posted October 16, 2006 11:19 AM
The saying that "Children will always suffer the sins of the father" ( mother should apply here too ) is true to a degree I think. My dad was an alcoholic and we children did suffer a lot growing up with his alcoholism. We suffered in many ways, lack of food, instability, lack of love and attention from our father, etc. But as stated here by others we are not locked into that. We have the ability to use those things for our growth as I did and so did my sister and brother. All three of us became better parents due to it and formed productive and happy lives for ourselves. Lia, I believe it is always the case that each child growing up in the same family will see their childhood differently.  IP: Logged |
silverstone
unregistered
|
posted October 16, 2006 02:07 PM
Thanks, ladies. It applies to mothers as well, as Mirandee stated. I'll be back... Silverstone ------------------
The only other sound's the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake. The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep. ~Robert Frost IP: Logged |
sue g
unregistered
|
posted October 17, 2006 04:55 AM
I think if we are strong enough to rebel or stand apart from our conditioning and be aware of what we inherit, we dont have to go on to be alcoholics or drug dependant like many of our fathers/mothers were/are...Whilst I was staying with my Dad I noticed he had nine boxes of medication....oh my. He then tried to offer me a sleeping pill cos I kept waking in the night. I told him I dont take medication and prefer to take natural remedies. When I was 18 he gave me a valium pill....never again.....it really knocked me out..... I have never forgotten the after effects of just one tablet. It made me think how much my father had "numbed out" over the years...bless him....and I didnt want to do this, especially as I am a mum now. I think if we are strong and determined enough, we have no need to suffer the sins or dysfunctions of our parents. Of course, for some, its easier than others...  love to all... IP: Logged |
silverstone
unregistered
|
posted February 17, 2007 04:38 AM
BUMP...
Exodus Chapter 20
: (5) You shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them. For I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the sons to the third and fourth generation of those that hate me, (6) and showing mercy to thousands of those that love Me and keep My commandments.: Numbers 14
: (18) The LORD is long-suffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the sons to the third and fourth generation. : Deuteronomy Chapter 5
: (9) You shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them. For I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the sons to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me, (10) and doing mercy to thousands of those who love Me and keep My commandments. : Jeremiah Chapter 32
: (17) Ah, Lord Jehovah! You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and stretched out arm. Nothing is too great for You. (18) You show loving-kindness to thousands, and repay the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their sons after them. SINS OF THE FATHERS -- Euripides (c. 485-406 B.C.), Phrixus, fragment 970: "The gods visit the sins of the fathers upon the children." Also: "For the sins of your fathers you, though guiltless, must suffer." - Horace, "Odes," III, 6, l. 1. "The sins of the father are to be laid upon the children." - Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice," act III, sc. V, l. 1 From "Bartlett's Familiar Quotations," seventeenth edition, by John Barlett and Justin Kaplan, general editor (Little, Brown and Co., Boston, 2002).
------------------
The only other sound's the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake. The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep. ~Robert Frost IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
unregistered
|
posted February 17, 2007 11:56 AM
hehe, God is Jealous, nah
that must be a false god man
that crept in...
reptile like...
somthing is amiss...
God does not even Judge
the Universal Laws
of cause and effect do
you get what you give. ... Judgement Day
is every Death
and coming to the Great Hall
to weigh thy heart
and see the records then when we make a mess
and are destrying ourSelves
and everything we have a total Judgement
big scale
end of cycle unless we change! or we will be made to, by
our own actions, since
this last Creation. ... I'm weary, in my travels
through Time
for I remember
Creations
Before the Last
my soul is often tormented by this
the reality of Us. . . there are other worlds, too!
but once you enter a cycle
from Heaven
you are in that cycle
til you Master YourSSelf. ... can you imagine
how long we have been doing this? IP: Logged |
silverstone
unregistered
|
posted February 18, 2007 05:38 AM
------------------
The only other sound's the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.
The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep. ~Robert Frost IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
unregistered
|
posted February 18, 2007 08:58 PM
I believe the sons, and daughters inherit
the karmic circumstances, left to them
inherited by their Fathers and Mothers...I do not think they actually take on
their bad karma
I do not think our children have to pay for
our mistakes,
only what they have done, themSelves families/souls are connected
through incarnations...I believe...
for these groups
have to deal with thier
cause and effects. ... LOts of LOve to ALL... . IP: Logged |
Philbird
unregistered
|
posted February 21, 2007 09:08 PM
I Think, Therefore, I am... a sufferer.IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted February 25, 2007 03:27 AM
The world we live in implies us that. But everything is already planned by God based on where you are. Always do your duty and square off your karma. No worries then. God does not baby sit you every minute, yet he/she is a witness to all things.
Cheers.
IP: Logged |
sesame
Moderator Posts: 41
From: Oz
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted February 27, 2007 05:31 AM
Well, I personally think it's a crock, but an interpretation that I'm willing to concede is that new generations continually repay the debts of previous generations. Sins or Karma though is a different story. These are personal choices and are never imposed upon others - they must by their very nature be chosen by free will - which may have been decided before birth. The fact that the world is a result of our forefathers, and that we are expected to clean it up, or improve it is extremely daunting. In an ideal world, we could live happily in peace and not have to contend with wars and pollution daily, but this is a dilemma that we have also chosen to deal with in this existence. To blame any one else, and expect them to act when you don't is fairly hypocritical. We are all in this together whether you blame your parents or not.Heaps of Love,
Dean. ------------------
I realized it for the first time in my life:
there is nothing but mystery in the world,
how it hides behind the fabric of our poor,
browbeat days, shining brightly, and we don't even know it. Sue Monk Kidd, "The Secret Life of Bees", p79 Logically Magical Logic is Magically Logical Magic! (and vice versa!) IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
unregistered
|
posted April 05, 2007 03:20 AM
BumpIP: Logged |
fayte.m
unregistered
|
posted April 05, 2007 11:03 AM
Sins of the Fathers.
Mothers too.
But it is not necessarily anything mystical.
You drink or do crack when you are pregnant, your baby may be addicted or have birth defects.
You drink water that is being contaminated by your forefather's trash dump, which is now leaking toxins into the water table.
Just like the business with the Crucifixion/Crucifiction.......For the moment I will go with the mythos many subscribe to.....
"Jesus died for our sins".
Now read that phrase again with a different point of view.
A man named Jesus died because some foolish people, some "sinners"=bigots, decided to murder him.
So Jesus died for=because these folks murdered, committed a sin of killing...and he died because they sinned=committed a crime, by their actions.
He did not die to save them, he died for=because of their sin=crime, against his mortal body.
Because
Definition:
1. for reason that: for the reason that follows
I like her because she's always so friendly.
2. seeing that: on the basis of or taking into account what follows
It must have been raining, because the path is wet.
[14th century. < by cause 'for the reason (that)', after Old French par chance]
because of indicating the reason or cause of somethingfor
Definition:
8. preposition because of: indicating a reason why something happens or is done
22. conj because: for the reason or seeing that...
So do the children suffer the sins of the fathers? Only in that our ancestors made a big mess of things and we are left to clean it up. And they destroyed the passenger pigeon, the dodo and many more now lost creatures. Even our most ancient ones killed off perhaps the Woolly Mammoth.
So yeah, we pay for the sins=crimes=ignorance=irresponsibility of those who came before. But that is simply luck of the draw. Sometimes a rock is just a rock. Do not read too much into things. Babies can be born well despite terrible in utero exposure and another have defects for no reason, but genetics perhaps. A good person can be run down, maimed or killed, while a trouble maker or criminal can live a high life of wealth and luxury.
It's been said that life can be a crap shoot.
Luck of the draw.
So.....To Good Luck!
------------------
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~
IP: Logged |
silverstone
unregistered
|
posted April 05, 2007 11:26 AM
quote:
So yeah, we pay for the sins=crimes=ignorance=irresponsibility of those who came before. But that is simply luck of the draw. Sometimes a rock is just a rock.
Yes, indeed! I like the chicken picture...hee-he  
IP: Logged |
fayte.m
unregistered
|
posted April 05, 2007 11:34 AM
I believe it is titled:
quote:
"There, for but the grace of God, go I"
------------------
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
SilverStone
Moderator Posts: 380
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted December 09, 2009 02:37 AM
BUMP!IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
