posted October 17, 2006 02:48 PM         

I've only ever had pot, and I hated it.

posted October 17, 2006 02:52 PM         

Haven't been able to get back to reply on this topic until now as our computers at work have a block on anything that mentions drugs, sex, alchahol etc!

Lia, thanks so much for your understanding and acceptance of my point of view on this Sometimes over the years amongst my peers there has been a very patronising attitude because I didn't want to take anything and I had to have the courage to stand alone and not be badgered. I saw other friends take things they really didn't want to because they were afraid to look 'stupid' in front of their mates. How tragic I agree with you totally when you say you uphold everyone's right to choose for themselves.

quote:

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I was listening to Led Zeppelin's "The Rain Song" on my stereo...just completely absorbed in the beauty of the melody and as I looked at the speaker, I saw a myriad of color streaming out of the speaker...flowing in waves, pulsating to the various notes and chords. I believe I was visually seeing sound. Something I would have never dreamed was possible. It was amazing. A truly transcending spiritual experience.

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That's exactly what Garry said about his experiences - that you can see sound! How amazing!

Sue your experiences sound fantastic to me and similar to things that have happened to me whilst under hypnosis and self-imposed deep relaxation. It's a melting away of all the heavyness of matter and a wonderful floaty feeling, with the opportunity to explore further and further into the spirals inside - I've had some quite earth shattering truths come to the fore at those moments and have found the intensity of them almost addictive.

posted October 17, 2006 06:10 PM         

Years ago I was on antidepressants and I enjoyed waking up in the middle of the night because I'd get some intense kalidoscopic visuals. Or I'd intentionally go to sleep and wake up. Later I was on an antidepressant that was stronger and when I'd wake up my dreams would deconstruct into a skeletal framework similar to what animators use and then parts of my dream and individual objects would become kalidoscopic.Interesting experiences, but not real...

My opinion is recreational drugs even "natural" are harmful and not a balanced conscious choice. Even if there are no harmful physical effects doesn't mean they are spiritual safe. It's an easy "trip" to pop a pill but the real work or interconnectedness comes through our relationships that are not so easy at times. It always amazes me how in one breath someone talks of spiritual matters and then in the next breath we use unskilled behavior and attack someone we don't think is "right" or agrees with us, then in turn we attack back. That's why it's called doing our spiritual "work"

There are lots of spiritual tools available, unfortunately many become distractions or we get stuck in the immediate impact - everyone loves special effects - yet this too comes to an end - is impermanent - is an illusion.

posted October 17, 2006 07:11 PM         

I think it's very interesting that some people can have those experiences without any substance having been ingested. From what I understand, LSD (and substances like it) stimulate chemicals already present in the human brain, so in order to experience these things without having taken anything, those chemicals must have been stimulated in some other way. I would be very interested in any research into that area.

I think re the LSD being able to allow us to glimpse 'reality' or whether it's a dream must be very much a matter of personal perspective. The experiences people have (whether they've taken drugs or not) can be very real to them and consequently I wouldn't like to say anyone's right/wrong on this. I think reality is such a movable feast, because it's properties and defining characteristics change from person to person. Even 2 people who have the same experience will react to it, view it and learn from it in completely different ways so it becomes impossible to prescribe which is the more 'real' or which one has come close to 'the truth'.

I think we all decide and categorise the things that happen to us as real or unreal. For example, I could wake up in the middle of the night and 'see' someone standing at the foot of my bed and pinch myself to make sure I'm not asleep and categorise the whole thing as 'real.' You could have the same experience and decide it was a hypnopompic dream and categorise it in your memory banks as 'unreal.' Neither of us is necessarily wrong or right but we just view it differently.

posted October 18, 2006 10:03 AM         

I never felt right encouraging or influencing anyone's decisions about trying LSD, mescaline, or pot.
I thought it was in them to or not...they knew what was right for them, not me. If they weren't having the inclination themselves to begin with, I certainly wouldn't feel right about planting that seed. If it's not natural to someone on their own,aligning with their present strength of spirit, that's when it can be destructive.

I had a friend who, everytime she would smoke a joint would fall asleep. She didn't like it for this reason, and who could blame her?
It didn't have that effect on me, but I entirely respected her choices and never thought of influencing her otherwise. It didn't matter to me. She was my friend and that's what mattered. I think for someone to feel the need to push things on people, whether pushing drugs on them, or also trying to persuade them not to, just because they don't, reflects a co-dependant personality that needs affirmation from outside sources for who they choose to be.

That being said, I know there are many negative stories that we could probably all tell here. The thing that frustrates me, is that it's not fair to those of us, who were clear and strong enough to be responsible and prudent about our choices of experience. It's never good to lump and stereotype people into one category. That's what I have a problem with.

Kat, your spiritual work is yours and everyone elses is their own, right?
One of the greatest spiritual lessons that perhaps could be learned is having an open reception to different perspectives and an accepting respect and faith in the freedom of everyone's individual, unique journeys...whatever paths they choose to travel on their way to discovering their own Truth.
Personally, I never 'popped a pill' expecting enlightenment. I would never assume anything like that. I strived earnestly for it in much more variety of means. Through reading...through experiencing life, etc.
Looking back, I believe experiencing the seasons of life has been the greatest teacher. But assuming that someone thinks that way, when they use LSD, or whatever, seems to be a stark conclusion of someone's intention, without really knowing for sure. It could be true in some cases, yes. But that wouldn't mean that it was true of everyone.

posted October 18, 2006 12:18 PM         

<<<Lia, thanks so much for your understanding and acceptance of my point of view on this Sometimes over the years amongst my peers there has been a very patronising attitude because I didn't want to take anything and I had to have the courage to stand alone and not be badgered. I saw other friends take things they really didn't want to because they were afraid to look 'stupid' in front of their mates. How tragic I agree with you totally when you say you uphold everyone's right to choose for themselves<<<<

Me too CG...

I remember being at a party once, I was the eldest there....everyone was sitting on the floor stoned out of their heads and I was up dancing....someone asked my boyfriend "what is she on"....he answered nothing mate, just water I think, she's naturally like that"....

In the end I became one of the few that didnt do drugs and felt proud to stand out from the crowd and be the rebel....

Its strange now, cos none of my friends do drugs now, but all of us have tried one or another....I just did a bit of smoke now and then, and even that didnt suit me....it monged me out a lot....

Like my therapy man Colm said "whatever gets ye through", although like you CG it ****** me off with the peer pressure thing....worry for our son sometiems...hopefully he will do what he wants to do, rather than what he thinks he should....

posted October 19, 2006 11:46 PM         

The first time I did a hallucinagenic it was mescaline. I did it alone,off by myself, entirely of my own accord.
At the time I tried it none of my friends had.

I'm part American Indian and I had read of shamans using peyote for Vision Quests. I was fascinated by the mystical/spritual aspect of it. The Journey within to the Self, and Outer to the Reaches of the Universe.
Peyote was harder to come by, so I tried mescaline instead. At the time, I had already educated myself quite thoroughly by reading all the information on it I could acquire from various sources. Resources that described all the physiological and psychological effects--good and bad. I was intrigued and wanted to experience it for myself.
So peer pressure isn't always the case.
I've always independantly followed my own
drummer.

posted October 20, 2006 04:59 AM         

"Brings the Pipe"

posted October 21, 2006 12:56 PM         

"right?"

No- we are all interconnected we are ONE - what you do for someone else you do for yourself. What you do for yourself you do for someone else.

posted October 22, 2006 12:32 PM         

I,m almost 100% certain that no one here when they were teens had the slightest concept of the oneness of humanity and that all of our actions for that reason have an effect on others and the whole world in general. In fact, most adults in the world still don't have a concept of that oneness because it takes a lifetime of coming to that kind of spiritual awareness and in the process of knowing that we learn the most from our mistakes. It's one thing to know about that oneness of humanity in the intellect because we read about it and another matter entirely in knowing it through our whole being and having it become who we are as a person.

If people truly had a spiritual awareness of the oneness of all creation the world would be a much better place. There would also be a whole lot less talking about "me" in comparison to "others" around LL if that were the case. Because there would be no feelings at all of being a better person for having done it differently or the need to compare ourselves with others and think of ourselves in more superior terms because we did not do this or that as the other person did.

I think that the personality of the person has a lot to do with whether or not they will choose to experiment with drugs. Some people are more risk takers than others just by their temperment from birth and their individual personality.

posted October 25, 2006 11:02 PM         

Silverstone, wherever did you find that picture?
Well, it's been a few months but Dr. Phil will be the first to know.

Kat, I hope you're not leaving because of this thread. Maybe you have other reasons. I've been a member for years and have left myself for long stretches at times, for a change of scenery.
If it is because of this thread and our differences of views here, then I don't know what to say about that. I think there was no wrong in either of us expressing our truths as we see them. I agree with most everything you wrote in your last post here...not everything, but about our energy rippling out to others, most certainly.
Although I believe that simultaneously, soul journeys are also individually unique in their own pace in time.

I didn't mean to offend, but also I have to remain true to myself and I can't allow the thought of offending people to repress my freedom of expression. I'd be a rather weak character then, wouldn't I? I do respect your thoughts. That is sincere. I don't have to entirely agree to still welcome hearing them.
Maybe I'm making an issue where there isn't one? I'm not even sure at this point.
If you're still here I'd like to hear from you.

For now, unsure, I will only say that LSD isn't an addictive substance. It doesn't make you zone out or prone to apathy.(if anything, the opposite of that).
Perhaps more addictive substances, such as heroin, meth, cocaine or even alchohol? I'd agree with you there.
Well, just thought I should clarify that.

posted October 26, 2006 12:50 AM         

quote:

---

Silverstone, wherever did you find that picture?
Well, it's been a few months but Dr. Phil will be the first to know.

---

You never know, Lia... maybe I am Dr. Phil and I've been watching you all along look right behind you...heehe! I actually found it while visiting photobucket.com...

I like the one you posted with the leaf

Cheers,
Silverstone

------------------
The only other sound's the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.

The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

posted October 29, 2006 08:12 AM         

Thanks very much for your apology...very humble of you girl....but honestly I cannot remember you being judgemental to me....was it a long time ago....?

I wish you love, happiness and joy....

Thanks again

Love