posted March 26, 2007 03:08 PM           

When I'm feeling good, I can count all my blessings.....I am healthy, I have 2 beautiful, healthy children, I have family who love me, we have food, shelter and access to free health services and education. I also live in a really good area for the children to grow up in.

The things that make me happy are: moments of enlightenment, when I feel nearer to God.....beautiful surroundings- animals, nature, art, music, innocence. And, of course- seeing others happy.

I feel so fortunate that I have reached a level in my soul's evolution for it to recognize that all beings are connected- to feel that inside is so uplifting- the love and affection I feel towards all of nature's wonderful beings.

However, with empathy and sensitivity...there is another side- a down side. The acknowledgement that the world truely is full of pain, suffering, injustice and cruelty. Can we really do anything to make a difference? Or will there always be equal amounts of darkness and light within this dimension, no matter what?

And sometimes, when I feel this world is just an endless, arduous journey.....unsure whether there is any meaning for existence or if existence exists just for the sake of it.....sometimes I wonder if there is really any point to all this suffering.

Can anyone tell me what the next step in enlightenment would be, for me? Is there a way to get beyond this level of thinking, to reach a higher one?

posted March 26, 2007 04:50 PM           

I have been thinking about your post for a while now...

my thoughts...pain is something we allow our selves to feel, pain and suffering, are very strong stern teachers, they teach we must rise above...the negative forces, allowing ourSelves..to be OverWhelmed....

I am still trying to Master this...it gets easier, as you gain understanding, as to why things happen, and that everything is for a reason...

I was shone, that we choose this life, from Heaven, in OverSoul=God, we are given different lives to view, and the learning that will be done, and karmic debts paid...

Our OverSoul = God is our True Self...
this is a sHell, we inhabite, a body temple...an illusion of our pureness...

it's all been shone to me in very simple ways...
Heaven is our mirror, Our Angel-Self-OverSoul =GOD,
as above, so below

but opposite...
Earth-Hell...TartarUs

We must Master OurSelf
in this Material plane...

Know the God true Self
we turned our backs on

when we allowed the material world
to create power...*edit-wanted to say when ego was created*

oh, I am getting carried away...
that is why it took me time to reply...
too much to say...

I can say, that my Life is filled with
Magic everyday, and forgiveness for all...
LOve uncondtionally is all I want to
experience, sweet sacred bliss

no matter what, I have never been separated
from my twin, In Soul we are together
LOving each other, and Healing...
when twins re-Unite, it will cause
a domino effect, and all will fall into
place,
we can have a 1000 years of immortality
we can have Heaven on Earth
we can Heal all of this....
it is possible....

A Dream Come True. ...

Ye of little Faith...

Look up to the Sky
it is Us. ...

Master=Key

unlock the Box
Paradox, of Pandora-Prometheus...
Minerva,

Come come come come my Lady
you're my butterfly, sugar-baby, hehe

LOve to ALL to

posted March 26, 2007 04:53 PM         

Many people who are searching for truth will become aware of all the suffering and pain that goes on in this world. Ignorance truly is bliss. To deepen spiritually is to not only know your pain better, but other's pain as well.

posted March 26, 2007 06:28 PM           

Ok, thankyou everyone for your thoughts

Lotus, I really admire how you are always strong in walking beside God/Goddess, you never let go of that ray of light...I often loose my way because of doubt...for it is difficult to "live in the world, but be not of the world".

It is true that we need to learn how to rise above negativity, to learn that true freedom does not mean that we infringe on the freedom and rights of others...through suffering and experiencing pain we develop empathy...through spirituality we realise that all is connected- to hurt another is to hurt oneself- and I assume that it is how we rise above it all...above the lower dimension of karma...this world- the 'savage garden'(I think of it as that- think I took the idea of calling it that from an Anne Rice novel, hehe).
The ideas in the book 'the celestial prophecy'is very interesting when it comes to contemplating this world and the questions I have...about dimensions.

But, is it really necessary to experience all this? Does the soul NEED to be born into this world and go through all this.

I was just thinking about what Linda said about the word 'live'. That the word live contains the words evil and lie- revealing that the idea that to live we must know evil is a lie- according to her S-elf.

"See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil".

But 'what does it all mean?'!

oh ! Gooober, did you know how it made me ache inside
and how deeply I understood ?

it gave me a sharp loving-pain
when you tried so hard to stop the rain

posted March 26, 2007 06:30 PM           

"Rather than saying, "I am depressed, I am in pain," label the emotion. This body is experiencing depression, this body is experiencing sadness. Viewing these feelings as an experience rather than a solid entity can help realize that they are just as illusory as anything."

posted March 26, 2007 06:33 PM           

we chose the Earth cycle, for the experience..
it is the most difficult

we have chosen other worlds to live in also,
with much easier paths...

limitless possibilities...

we created this...

we can create Pax et Bonum. ...

posted March 26, 2007 06:46 PM           

quote:

---

Or will there always be equal amounts of darkness and light within this dimension, no matter what? ~Listens to trees

---

This 3-dimensional world that we appear to live in is only one frequency; one dimension of existence. We have a frequency range that we can perceive, we call it: the physical senses, but outside of that range, however, are other frequencies of other dimensions of existence and are sharing the same space as we are.

quote:

---

Can we really do anything to make a difference? ~ Listens To Trees

---

Infinite love is the only truth, everything else is Illusion

There is no completeness without sadness and longing, for without them there is no sobriety, no kidness. Wisdom without kindness and knowledge without sobriety are useless~Castenada's,The Fire from within

------------------
The only other sound's the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.

The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

posted March 26, 2007 08:06 PM         

Hello. Depression happens only when you have abundant and not sure what to do next.

For example if you are rich, you have plenty of time and don't know what to do with it.

Hehehe that was a joke.

Yes, everyone goes thru that realization you spoke about atleast once in their lives.

But only when your being is truly in bliss, theres no room for depression in it.

Humans have to learn all these tricks of the mind before they can evolve to the next level.

Its tough to get there but not impossible.

I am being told meditation will help us in all areas of our problems.

posted March 27, 2007 12:16 AM           

but the other day as i was a driving, a vehicle passed me, and part of its license plate tag was 'HSP'...

and my first thought was ~ cool -- Higher Sense Perception!

(i actually had a session with a brennan school graduate/practitioner. for quite a while i was disappointed with what had transpired in our meeting. i determined later that she had helped me in invaluable ways.

posted March 27, 2007 01:24 AM         

Ok, so Jesus does have compassion on his fellow beings. But does he brood over his disciples pains and sufferings. Lets say the woman who cried and cried at his feet. Could Jesus also have been laughing at that woman?

For a busy man theres no idle time. Bill Gates never took more than a weeks vacation in 10 years. For a man who is beyond spirituality or religion , where is the room to brood over suffering? Did Jesus took the flesh of human being again if he was concerned about other human beings suffering? I mean he did say, this is my body and who ever eats of this flesh and drinks of this wine, he has inheritance in me and I in him. That is a very very great sacrifise. I am not trying to belittle it. That is somehow he left his immense energy behind before dissapearing from this material world. Ok I am getting offtrack here.

But the more I think of my own state of mind when I am in pain or suffering, my only consolation comes when my intellect says don't latch on to the pain and suffering. One only fuels it more. Let them not affect our being (self).

posted March 27, 2007 04:02 AM           

Sorrow

This pain is not to make you sad, remember. That's where people go on missing.... This pain is just to make you more alert--because people become alert only when the arrow goes deep into their heart and wounds them. Otherwise they don't become alert. When life is easy, comfortable, convenient, who cares? Who bothers to become alert? When a friend dies, there is a possibility. When your woman leaves you alone--those dark nights, you are lonely. You have loved that woman so much and you have staked all, and then suddenly one day she is gone. Crying in your loneliness, those are the occasions when, if you use them, you can become aware. The arrow is hurting: it can be used. The pain is not to make you miserable, the pain is to make you more aware! And when you are aware, misery disappears.

Osho Take it Easy, Volume 2 Chapter 12

Commentary:

The image is of Ananda, the cousin and disciple of Gautam Buddha. He was at Buddha's side constantly, attending to his every need for forty-two years. When Buddha died, the story is told that Ananda was still at his side, weeping. The other disciples chastised him for his misunderstanding: Buddha had died absolutely fulfilled; he should be rejoicing. But Ananda said, "You misunderstand. I'm weeping not for him but for myself, because for all these years I have been constantly at his side but I have still not attained." Ananda stayed awake for the whole night, meditating deeply and feeling his pain and sorrow. By the morning, it is said, he was enlightened. Times of great sorrow have the potential to be times of great transformation. But in order for transformation to happen we must go deep, to the very roots of our pain, and experience it as it is, without blame or self-pity.

Copyright © 2007 Osho International Foundation

posted March 27, 2007 06:27 AM           

First of all....Mannu- i know what it is you are saying about having the TIME to feel depressed in the materially wealthy society. However- if I didn't get time to feel depressed, then I would feel depressed about not having the time to feel depressed...hee hee, just kidding. But really. I enjoy thinking. On days where I have not had one moment to myself to stop, think, reflect- I feel lost. Lost in the material dimension which I feel is not where I am truely from (lost in strange world, lol)....I feel I need to make sense of things like emotions. I feel I need to make sense of them to rise above them a bit (and not let them control me)....I'm very emotional, lol.
Because I have two small children, a 10 month old and a 3 year old, I sometimes get depressed about not having enough time to think, reflect and to search for spiritual wisdom. If I read a book, I feel I need to have no distractions to draw on its full value. I like to become fully absorbed in a book- or not at all. I get frustrated that I don't have the time to do this right now! Food for the soul.

We may be wealthy materially in the western world, but not wealthy in other areas. For example, there has been a recent report in the news that Britain, followed by the USA, are the worst countries for a child to grow up in when it comes to emotional well-being. Netherlands came first in being the best. Why? Because they have more of a sense of community? Because focussing on competition and striving to fulfill ones own needs does not make one happy? Because, that way, one cuts themself off from the rest of the others who make the WHOLE, the interconnection. If that makes sense.

So, we might be materially wealthy, but does that make us better off? I'm not sure...entirely

Lialei that was wonderful. Absolutely fantastic philosophy to view one's personal struggling with.

But what when I'm just depressed about the suffering of the world around me? Should I be worrying about it? Animal torture, human torture, injustice, the screams of the innocent. I can't get to them- not right now- it would take many others to help, to make the changes- but it doesn't stop their suffering in these dimensions of TIME.

posted March 27, 2007 06:30 AM           

it gave me a sharp loving-pain
when you tried so hard to stop the rain

posted March 28, 2007 03:30 AM         

Lovesthetree,

Indeed the western wealth is rich in the outer world, but their inner world is still in poverty. But even the east is becoming more like west now.
What matters most is where is the collective human consciousness going towards?

You also brought a great point about, if you are not able to be depressed. Everything that occurs to us stays within our being. For example our past lives have left tremendous prints on our very being.
The image or picture or movie does not exist for us to recall. But we feel the energy existing. Perhaps we cry because in the past live lets say you were wounded or killed brutally. We are not able to recount that picture in our present body, but we do feel the energy. Perhaps some past life experts can shed some light on this interesting subject.

I believe we cannot make a shift to the next body above human unless we exhaust all our imaginations. Very few are able to make a quantum jump. One way to exhaust imagination is to travel and get different perspectives. Read various books out there by honest authors. It also necessarily does not mean to change your spouse. You know what I am mean

Valcap,
Theres indeed so much to learn from our own children

Cheers.

posted March 28, 2007 04:12 AM           

Valcap- thankyou for your support. Your words are so true.

Mannu, you MAY be right. But where did you learn this?

I hope to get a past life regression some day soon. I have a feeling that if I did find out about previous lives, I would see a lot of pain. Its just fragments.

posted March 31, 2007 02:59 AM           

I saved the post I had written yesterday,
but now I'm not sure. I'm trying to better understand what it is you're looking for.

quote:

---

And sometimes, when I feel this world is just an endless, arduous journey.....unsure whether there is any meaning for existence or if existence exists just for the sake of it.....sometimes I wonder if there is really any point to all this suffering.

---

When you look around to this world for proof of meaningfulness or reward for suffering, you become more sad, right?
Sometimes what you believe is beautiful and so you give, will return to you, or bear fruit
but often it does not.

Or maybe it does...but not until years later~
After the needed time it took
for the other to have an intimate transformative revelation within themselves
that brings them to remembering your beautiful guesture in gratitude.
Meaning. It's seldom found but in our Selves.

posted March 31, 2007 03:01 AM           

Not everyone is so compassionate and alert
to things outside of themselves.
Those who are endure the greatest
sorrows and feelings of helplessness.
They also feel the greatest Love.
They also attain the greatest Understandings.
They also become the strongest for it all.

In the meantime, while you're just trying
to survive?

Everything is in continuous motion.
Summits coast to valleys,
but again must climb treacherous hills to reach summits once more.
It keeps happening and always will.
Nothing remains Still.
If you can remain aware enough within
your sorrow to foresee that you will reach another Peak (as you will~ always do),
that will carry you through it.
And if, while you're on the Peak,
you foresee the fall from it (as always happens too), then when you do fall,
the fall won't be as devestating to your Spirit.
You will have prepared yourself. (as much as we ever can, anyway. Who is ever really
prepared?)

So really just chiming in with BlueRoamer
and Silver. Detatchment helps
to see the broader vision (imagine a bird high up in the sky looking down in panoramic view the entire landscape below--all the valleys and peaks stretched out).

This is how you can also break yourself free from responsive behavioral patterns you are conditioned to responding.
When you remain alert, you can also begin
to see the patterns at work in your life(your own and others), and break free of them.

Liberation = Joy.

(until the next sorrow anyway)