posted May 16, 2007 08:34 AM         

quote:

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Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha

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quote:

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Exodus Chapter 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

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posted May 16, 2007 08:42 AM         

hehe, yup, I got the three volumes of it, and I have posted what you mentioned, over a year ago!

Maybe, it's time to re-visit!?

posted May 16, 2007 11:59 AM         

While both Know his eye is on the sparrow and his Love everpresent.

Thanks Mirandee, nice.

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted May 16, 2007 09:25 PM         

For example, in Isaiah 65:6b-7 God says, "I will even repay into their bosom, both their own iniquities and the iniquities of their fathers together." (See also Leviticus 26:39 and Jeremiah 16:10-12.)

Believe nothing on the faith of traditions,
even though they have been held in honor
for many generations and in diverse places.
Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it.
Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past.
Do not believe what you yourself have imagined,
persuading yourself that a God inspires you.
Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests.
After examination, believe what you yourself have tested
and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto. ********Buddha

And for the record, I don't believe in all mythos either, but rather find many pieces to the puzzles there....

posted May 17, 2007 01:45 AM         

Im commenting on some of the earlier posts... I have just posted this comment in Lia's thread

quote:

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Just as every woman has different cooking style, each Master has its own way of teaching. Buddha, Jesus etc..No one is greater or lesser than the other. Its our ego that calculates all the time.

We are all equal before God. The priests have edited the holy books of God because they are afraid to loose power. Its a tactic they employed to trap the masses.

But it does not mean stop going to temple.
Go if you feel like it. Go with pure intention, not out of fear of retribution.

God has guided each Master on what his message should be when they live the earth.
For Jesus the message was Body = Sin, sacrifice your body and you sacrifise sin.

Buddha would have said...."To have a body, is to desire. Cease desire to experience eternal bliss.".

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posted May 17, 2007 01:56 AM         

Theres all sorts of people here in LL. Most in my opinion are pro Christian. You can't help that, its what they inherited. But there are some who are seekers of truth and their thirst has brought them to this site.

As someone said "We are all in our own soul frequency Journey." We can't hasten nor slow it. I think it was Lialei was it?

But there are few men/women in the past here on earth who has shown us a higher reality that we earthlings must follow. Its perfectly all right to follow what your soul feels blissful about. Linda Goodman appears to be one such person, who accumulated occult knowledge from her sources and tried to present it to her readers.

Everythings fair. Its ok to play and laugh here whatever be the background.

Salvation will come to all one day sooner or later.

posted May 17, 2007 02:08 AM         

When God touches you, the dictionary meaning of that experience and what one has been reading all along is totally different.

There are people who has experienced those moments time again for brief periods of time. Its very very difficult to sustain those moments for longer time. One has to practice daily to reach that state.

I believe God is neither male nor female. Those are concepts or ideas thats embedded in our mind for understanding.

For this matrix to be built their had to be two opposite priciples working in balance. Male/Female . Positive/Negative. Up/Down, etc. And thats where this idea must stop. We must learn to go out of that mould.

If you are a male on earth today. Try to do something feminine. Its ok to cry. If you are a female do something that society terms as 'male'. Its ok to oil your car. Don't listen to what Paul says. He wrote to woo certain audiences. In his time he had to make a beginning somewhere and hence he allowed that. I'm sure he would have thought otherwise today. Bring them out and witness them. Its all inside of you. The chaos/order, everything is inside of you.

The God force is waiting to touch you.

We have played enough with the laws of Moses. We have known the cause and effect, etc for 2000 years. Didn't we learn enough? Its time for a new reality.

posted May 17, 2007 02:38 AM         

Are you ready for the next level?

Well so am I. Let me know when you do and whom to go to. [ROTFL]

posted May 17, 2007 11:18 AM         

quote:

---

Believe nothing on the faith of traditions,
even though they have been held in honor
for many generations and in diverse places.
Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it.
Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past.
Do not believe what you yourself have imagined,
persuading yourself that a God inspires you.
Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests.
After examination, believe what you yourself have tested
and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto. ********Buddha

And for the record, I don't believe in all mythos either, but rather find many pieces to the puzzles there....

---

Mannu
Nice replies.
And yes, the Laws of Moses too long a problem.
Not God's laws, but The Laws of Moses.
Within pages after "Thou Shalt Not Kill"
Moses orders, oddly he claims because God told him to do so....proceeds to murder whoever does not believe as he does and who oddly refused to go to war and murder people.
Moses was a murderer before and after that commandment.
And Lord orders folks to rape and slay and take slaves and more from thereon.
What a strange book to consider as holy and a way to govern our lives.
http://nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible3.htm
http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/DarkBibleContents.htm

posted May 17, 2007 02:35 PM         

quote:

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And I am sorry, but the Bible(of its many different versions)does have a Lord who asks for sacrifice and goes out of his way to torture folks and demands folks murder other folks, or be killed for refusing to. He is jealous and vindictive and associated with fire and dark smoke and even flaming hemmoroids! His angels have stinging tails and the cream of his crop are drunks and incestuous and even collect foreskins as war trophies. He loves the smell of burnt flesh and covets gold and finery. I could go on here but you already know these things.

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Well, Fayte, this is precisely what I mean about bringing God into the 21st century. The Bible accounts were written over a very long period of time. Centuries in fact. You are citing Old Testament stuff here as an example and yet that is the image of God that the Jews held waaaaay back in BC. Give me a break!

If you read all the rest of Scipture you see how that image of God grows and changes through further insights and revealations of God. God never stopped revealing himself to humanity and he still hasn't.

It really is not only unfair to organized religions to cite a few things of the OT and ignore all that came after it and use it as an example of how all Christians and Jews see God today it also denotes a bit of a closed mind stuck in centuries ago ideals of God when all religions have been constantly changing and growing through new understanding and revealations.

It is no different really to do that with centuries old images of God that were written in the OT and use those things as a weapon to beat Christians over the head with as it is for Christians to use certain passages of Scripture that are taken out of context and use the Bible as a weapon to beat people over the head with.

What is reflected in the OT - and please, humanity's intelligence and knowledge has evolved enormously since the beginning of creation - what is reflected in the OT is the Jewish race attempting to explain God in human terms as they saw him. The rest of the OT and the New Testament reflects an entirely different image of God as it grew through the centuries through further understanding God's revelations to his creation. Was it that angry God who brought the Jews out of slavery in Egypt and sustained them in the desert?

It was the JEWS of that time who felt, as did their pagan neighbors, that their God demanded sacrifice. It was never GOD who asked for that or wanted it and as I said, Jesus made that very clear to the Jews of his time. God is not a God of sacrifice is what Jesus told them. He is a God of love and forgiveness.

All through time we attempt to explain God in human terms because that is all we know how to do. Look beyond that to what the story or passage is trying to say. As with this poem, look past the metaphors.

I am not upset about your different opinions. I am only upset that you keep your minds closed to anything Christian as if there is no spirituality in that at all and while you do not like what you see as "forceful" Christians or what you see in organized religions you guys can be just as forceful about being RIGHT and knowing all TRUTH and every bit as dogmatic about your beliefs or non-beliefs as you accuse the Christians of being.

I have seen that repeatedly on these threads. That upsets me. Not the difference of viewpoints or beliefs. I am not out to convert anyone.

NO ONE, not me or any of you know all truth about God.

Aren't you doing the same thing by reading centuries old OT passages literally as many Christians do? Both ways the Bible is being used as a weapon to prove your points and beliefs and beating people over the head with it. In both cases the Bible is being read without understanding and reflection on what is being shown in the way of revealations of what God is and how that constantly keeps changing due to the fact that God is very much alive, not a God of the past, and very much active in our world and our everyday lives. God constantly reveals more and more of his being to his creation through time.

Frankly, I don't care what others choose to believe. I just can't take the hypocrisy of people accusing Christians of doing the very same things they do and saying they have an open mind when in fact, they don't. I also can't take the hypocrisy of people accusing Christians and all organized religions of being dogmatic when the same people are every bit as dogmatic as they accuse organized religion of being.

Regarding reincarnation, those who believe in it can no more prove it is truth than I can prove it isn't. Everything regarding God who is way beyond anything our puny human minds can comprehend has to be taken on faith and yes, hope. No one knows for certain they are right and others are wrong.

Sorry if this offends. It is not intended to do that. But yes, Fayte, I was bit miffed and offended at having something that I found inspirational that I posted here called "Creepy." and putting an alien face next to it. I have never said anything like that about anything you guys have posted even if I did think it was creepy. Would be nice if once in a while you could grant me and other Christians around here the same consideration you demand from them.

You don't like or believe anything in the Bible fine. I don't like the Gnostic bible you guys present here and believe either. The Gnostics were never original in anything. They borrowed from everything and really, put their own spin on it. Maybe the Christians did too. But I look past all that to what is being revealed about God and I either accept it or I don't. I allow that in others too. We all have our own spiritual paths to follow. I follow the path that Jesus laid out for us and it has been a good path for me and billions of others on the planet. Frankly, I just cast my anchor of hope to God and try to stay out of his way in my life as much my ego allows me to do.

posted May 18, 2007 12:41 AM         

There will always be war when we talk of religion.

I respect Gnostics as a parallel book to bible for deeper understanding. Too bad much of it was destroyed by some jerks.

Every books is subject to interpretation.

And every one gets something out of it.

I spoke with so many unorthodox jew guys. They are surprised how their books are raped by christians and their own people.

posted May 18, 2007 12:47 AM         

Yeah , thats weird indeed. In the first book Cain kills Able and he is not forgiven and here Moses kills a soldier and he is made a leader.

Theres so much contradictions in the bible. Agreed.

But I believe theres pearls of wisdon too. Most of the words in the english language is picked from the bible.

Just as life these days are centered around corporations. In ancient days they centered around temples.

Time has changed.

posted May 18, 2007 01:51 PM         

I have NEVER insulted your beliefs or anyone else's here who didn't insult mine first and that is why it hurt when you came in here and called a poem that I liked and which did inspire me from early years creepy and put an alien face next to it. Icons do speak volumes. Of course I know you meant that for the poem and not me. But I was the one who posted the poem so obviously it in some way reflected me. I only shared this poem thinking maybe someone else will get something of out it too. Truthfully, I didn't even expect any responses. Maybe just food for thought is what I posted it for.

However, and I may be just over sensitive about it here , but Mannu's remarks regarding Catholics and all their "workshops" ( am unfamiliar with workshops lol ) and then going on to state that they come here "looking for truth" can be interpreted to imply that there is no truth in the Catholic church so we have to go elsewhere to find it. Knowing Mannu he may not have meant it that way.

I think what he might be saying is that there are many Christians and Catholics such as myself who do look outside the box. And he is right about that. The fact that I do that and am here should speak through my actions that I DO have tolerance for and do like to learn about the beliefs of others.

However, there is much false information and misinterpretations of Scripture put out on these boards regarding Christians and the Christian religion and one of the most erronous notion is that Christians just believe what they are told and don't question anything. Anyone who thinks that should spend some time in the Catholic Church and other churches and they would find out how far from the truth that notion is. Dogmas and Doctrines are constantly being questioned in churches by not only the parishioners but the preists and pastors as well. Even the bishops and theologians are constantly questioning and for that reason through time the churches do change. However the change does not happen overnight because they don't jump on every new theory that is presented in society. It's not organized religion which is living in the past so much as are those who do not care to notice the changes through time in religions. Hell, some people around here have never moved on past the crusades and inquisition period of Catholic history and still see the Catholic church as it was in the corrupt middle ages.

So yes, I get tired of people presenting themselve as being open minded, which in fact in many cases is not the truth, while presenting those who profess an organized religion as being brain dead, brainwashed, closed minded, unquestioning morons who know nothing of spirituality and God.

Where did you folks get your information if it did not come from things you read or what you have heard? So should it be any different for Christians or others in organized religions? Aren't you, in fact, reading and believing what you read which was told to you by some philosopher, or so called "sage" or non Christian spiritual writer? Or things that Linda Goodman said? Those people are only passing onto your their thoughts and beliefs which you accept as truth or not. Then you tell Christians they should not believe what they learn in their chosen religions because it comes from man. Well, where does your knowledge come from?

I haven't heard God speak down from the sky personally lately so normally he does get his message through and his revelations through with the help of mankind. So it all comes from what other human beings have taught and learned from their own experiences with God which is passed on in their writings and teachings. So there is no difference really in where our beliefs come from. Hopefully a dialog with God is part of it with us and our belief system or as Lotus says, going within in contemplation or meditation.

I am not really angry. I am just speaking my mind honestly. Why is it that when any Christian stands up for their faith we are always then painted as being angry and intolerant? Obviously our faith and beliefs mean more to us than yours does to you if you don't stand up for your belief system. People have died for their beliefs in Jesus and Christianity,the Jewish faith and the Islamic and Hindu faiths. There are no other religions on the planet that have been persecuted more than those faiths. Catholice in particular so as a Catholic I am used to persecution. I have yet to see any martyrs for other belief systems. How many people have been willing to die for their beliefs in astrology or atheism?

And yes, agreed, unfortunately at times those same religions have persecuted others and killed others in the name of God and their faith. Religions get distorted, God gets distorted, religions or any place else where there are human beings is going to be corrupt in many instances. It's the way it is. Yet it seems few who claim to be open minded ever get past those instances to see how the religions change and clean up their act when those things happen. Religions are less stuck in the past than most people who want to hold them there are. But really that is nothing more than an excuse that people use to justify their own prejudices and biases and their own positions.

I agree that there are forceful Christians. My brother in law is one of them. He left the Catholic chruch and is now a follower of the Religious Right evangelitical religion. He was here at our house on Easter Sunday and in one of his more preachy moods. Before coming here, as my husbands other brother told us, he had insulted his cousin at her house by spouting off his beliefs about homosexuals. He told her that being homosexual was due to an "evil soul." Well, her son is homosexual so she was offended and angry at him and tossed him out of her house.

Here, with a few beers in him, he was once again preaching to my husband who has told him many times in the past to knock that off. He followed him into the bathroom for crying out loud, locked the door so he couldn't get out and continued preaching to him. My husband was like, " there's the door, thanks for coming now go home." But not in those nicer words. He is really preaching to the choir because my husband is a Christian and a Catholic it is just that his brother thinks his way is the only way and you have to do it according to his formula or it isn't right. Well, I see that a lot on these threads here too by non Christians. So it isn't the belief system. It's the person and frankly with some people with control issues religion of any kind is a lethal mixture.

You are not who I am talking about, Fayte but yes, much as I love you, you can be forceful at times about your beliefs. Mannu and Silverstone I am not talking about either. On the most part you guys are the more tolerant ones around here.

I don't think of myself as being spiritually higher than anyone else. That is not what it is all about to me anyway. I don't pretend to know all truth and what truth I feel I know I am always questioning because that is how faith grows. I am less interested in talking about my beliefs as I am in trying to live them. But I also like to share them without being ignored because I am operating out of a theological background of studies and a Christian belief system as if there is no spirituality in that or any truth. I studied theology to learn my faith and to come to understand things better regarding it. There are many lifetime Catholics who wouldn't have the funky ideas about their own religion that they do if they took the time to actually find out about it. Most lifetime Catholics haven't advanced past childhood catechism. That's sad because they don't even understand their own Faith.

I am not angry. Just speaking my mind and if my being honest about my feelings regarding this makes you guys angry at me or dislike me then there is nothing I can do about that. I'm sorry if I came off to you as being angry at you. I'm not. I was only mildly miffed at you, Fayte because I know you well enough to know your heart. And yes, a little hurt. Not that you didn't agree with what I saw in the poem. But how you presented your thoughts and also that it then became open season on Christianity once again with OT images that religion has moved way past in light of further understanding since BC and further revealations of God. Jesus being THE revealation of God and I didn't see him calling down fire and brimstone on folks. Even while dying on the cross he forgave. If you want to know what God truly is, look to Jesus and what he said and did in his life. And look for the God that you see in the actions, words and lives of other human beings too.

posted May 18, 2007 08:03 PM         

Your discourse here serves to show me yet again why I love and respect both of you so much!!

posted May 19, 2007 03:43 AM         

I almost pulled an HSC and clicked that little box and deleted the whole thread. hee hee

I can only hope that it served some purpose that we might all be unaware of at this time.

Zala and Fayte, feeling as I do your words are so very much appreciated. It's also why I love and respect you ladies so much. The reason that I feel I can lay my feelings out to Fayte is because of her charcter and because she herself is an open, honest person. Also very understanding. Thanks for being so understanding, Fayte.

I'm sorry to all of you if anything I said either hurt or offended you.

Yes, Fayte, we are still friends no matter if we don't agree on everything. And yes, we are coming from different life experiences. Which is why we can learn from each other.