posted May 19, 2007 07:53 PM         

Yes, Fayte in private emails we have talked about many things and came to see and understand the viewpoint of the other.

Friends that we can do that with are a treasure and they help us grow. That's why I value your friendship so much, Fayte.

It might be kind of neat to create a What I Believe thread where we could all talk about her beliefs and then discuss what brought us to those beliefs and our experiences. I think sharing our experiences of God is the best way to come to know God and why we all view God as we do.

posted May 19, 2007 11:23 PM         

I am a young catholic too. But I have come to learn that its not the way for me. I do not like people who impose rules. Man's innate nature is to be free. And the more I come to know of catholicism, the more I feel its not for me. But I do go to church if my schedule allows. I personally prefer going to church than going to a discotheque. Some how I am at peace in a group that is trying to express their gratitude to God. And I believe its gratitude to existence or nature or whatever you wanna call it.

There are in reality no consequence of breaking rules. Rules are just convenience which we have adopted because of practicality. I can't hear the priest condeming muslims to hell or announcing egoistically statistics of number of people in america converting to catholicsm from islam or even wordlwide.

And no I didn't say theres no truth in catholic teachings. There are truths but its not complete. It is what you said, some people look else where for truth.


One of my parish member was shocked when I once said I do not believe in judgement day. At death everyone faces that day. Death and Birth are continuums in our eternity.

I rather speak such things to someone who I rather not shock. Hence this ave here at LL. I hate to spoil the party of such people. I believe, its in the nature of human to get to the truth. So someday they will experience that truth in their own sweet way and time.

BTW, I liked ur pic. You look so kind hearted.

posted May 19, 2007 11:24 PM         

The poem is great.

My opinion is that it appeals to you because you are an intellectual

posted May 21, 2007 12:26 AM         

I agree that truth is not found in just one place.

In fact saw this bumper sticker and I love it:

posted May 21, 2007 12:13 PM         

Too big for one body is very true!! I believe that God is everywhere and in all things and all people.

Man created religion to come to understand God is also very true. The defintion of theology is " faith seeking understanding."

Man also created religion as a means to give worship, praise and gratitude to God in a community setting.

Religion has always been the tools. Religion has always been the means to come to understand God and worship God, never the end. It was never meant to be where one stops their searching or learning. I think we learn most from our daily life experiences and seeing and understanding how God is working in our lives and the world and in the lives of other people.

One should never stop questioning, even what they think they know about God because God is so very vast that we haven't even begun to know all the questions to ask let alone the answers.

Myself, I love going to Mass. I find peace and much spirituality in the RC Mass. However, one of the reasons that I have been in and out of the church environment all through my life is that it becomes too repetitious and routine. When I find myself getting into just the routine of prayers and actions and just going through the formalities mass loses it's meaning and no longer uplifts my spirit. So I leave for a time.

That's why I have to correct the notion of Mannu that this poem appealed to me because of intellectual reasons. Nothing about religion appeals to me on the intellectual basis. For anything religious or spiritual to appeal to me at all it has to in some way touch my soul...my being. As Jesus said, be like a child, when it comes to spiritual matters I only use the intellect to come to understand and sort out my experiences with God or what I am reading. I use intellect and reasoning only to sort things out, try to understand etc. Otherwise it is only what in some way touches my soul that makes it appeal to me.

Going beyond the words and metaphor of this poem, it was the message that this poem gave me that appealed to me and touched my soul, that God loves me ( and all of us ) so very much that he never gives up on us but is always calling us back to union with Him.

I use Him when I speak of God because frankly, I find it downright silly what people doing these day in order to be politically correct in gender identification of God. God is a spiritual Being. He has no gender. We have from the beginning of times defined God and tried to understand God through human terms because that is all we know to compare God with. God has no gender. Only humans and other animals have genders for the purpose of reproduction of the species.

So we say that God is like a father but God is also like a mother. That describes in human terms how God deals with us. However, it is risky thinking of God in human terms or describing God that way because when you tell a kid or adult who has had either a very strict or cruel parent that God is like a father or mother you have to understand that while some of us can say to ourselves, " Oh, that means God takes care of me and loves me unconditionally." He does. However, to a kid or an adult who has been abused by a parent or treated by a parent with criticism, judgment, and strict discipline that is not the image of God they may conjure up when comparing God to their parents.

I just find it silly to always have to refer to God as He/She, or Father/Mother just to be politically correct. I say He because...well, I'm not interested in being politically correct when it comes to God even though I know God is a spiritual Being without gender and is both and all of everything.

posted May 21, 2007 12:49 PM         

quote:

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One should never stop questioning, even what they think they know about God because God is so very vast that we haven't even begun to know all the questions to ask let alone the answers.

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posted May 22, 2007 12:07 AM         

The second the path of intellectualism.
Not this, not that and they finally reach their self realization.

The third thru Body exercises/yoga.

And finally the fourth thru transforming energy. Google for Kriya yoga for details on this path.

Every one must decide where they fit and focus on that path.

The Bhagwat Geeta implies that its always the spirit (we) migrating from bodies to bodies and collecting experiences. Don't ask me why but thats the only way to gain experience.

The karma gets transferred thru genes (in the reproduced child). Perhaps thats why Jesus said its not the blind man's fault nor the parents. The blind man waited for the right parent to be found to experience blindness. And why? I don't want to say god keeps a general ledger. And this is where religion fights. Christianity will not believe in Karma and Hindus insists theres a karma.

One thing interesting Interesting I noticed is that there is indeed a higher power that has developed such a system (the Matrix if u will )

And it does appear that there is no escaping.

Where is all the animals that is becoming extinct being born as ? Well don't we observe a surge in the population of Human.

Well will all animals become human someday? Imagine the amount of time it wud take? What if the earth dies before that hehe..

There was one commentary I heard from an intellectual that said "when all the souls having thus realized their true nature, returns back to God". The everything is condensed into the size of half a thumb. Have to google the Geeta to find out where it says that. And because of the infinite energy compressing to a single point, its difficult for God to hold on. And it explodes. The big bang. Then galaxies forms, blah..blah...the star forms, planets forms....etc.........The pristine soul become corrupt again during big bang and spread everywhere in the universe. Life happens, and then the spirits take births after births, and finally find its way back to its source.

The hindus call the big crunch, prahlaya.

I wonder then if there was to be a big bang then there will definitely be a big crunch. For all things that begins must have an end. Is there something before Big bang?

Well time will tell about how our universe was really created.

Buts its interesting. I thought.

And consider this. Who caused the big bang? There has to be this higher power who has to balance the equations , the forces
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can just be transferred from one form to another. Well thats explainable for the matter energy. Our spirit energy is a different ball alltother. Remember though that some say no they are not its an extension.

Carl sagan says our universe is, was and will be.

Our matter world is just a fraction of what exists out there. Yet our souls need bodies to experience and keep on moving.

What about the rest of the energies out there. Are they special with God from the beginning? Or as Edgar cayce may have said, they must have the power to sustain high vibrations and they never descended to the matter world

posted May 22, 2007 12:17 AM         

I do not think so. These things in the material has to stop. That is what Jesus said "Man can't live by bread alone..."

posted May 22, 2007 02:14 AM         

I like these things that you said:

quote:

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There are four types of people here on earth. The one follows the path of emotion (eg St Francis) etc or should I call devotion.
The second the path of intellectualism.
Not this, not that and they finally reach their self realization.

The third thru Body exercises/yoga.

And finally the fourth thru transforming energy. Google for Kriya yoga for details on this path.

Every one must decide where they fit and focus on that path.

---

And this:

quote:

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Man needs to understand his spirituality. To realize his true self/nature.

---

My path is the emotional one overlapped with the intellectualism. The feelings come first then I want to understand why it touched me so and what that experience meant to my spiritual growth and faith.

I do a lot of the not this, and yes, this stuff because it has to be reasonable and logical to me and my own experiences of God, and yet, at the same time I know that many things when it comes to God cannot be defined or reasoned within the realm of our human logic and understanding. God goes beyond all of that. That's why even though I think this or that I leave it open for a better understanding to maybe come later. So I never stop questioning and learning.

That is where the second part of what you said comes in, Mannu. Man needs to understand his spirituality to realize his true self and nature.

The reason that I think that we have different approaches to God such as you listed and different journies to follow is that God knows exactly how to reach each of us and in what way. God can see into our souls so God knows us better than we know ourselves.

You are so right. And that's why we should never argue about who is right and who is wrong when it comes to God or religion. What is right for me, what path is right for me, may not be right for someone else. My path may not appeal to someone else nor theirs to me. The one thing that each of ours paths have in common is that we walk them blindly with only faith in something greater than we are to guide us along the way. We walk those paths sometimes with doubt and uncertainty of where we are headed so it has to be that faith that we rely on because sometimes the path is smooth and then we are suddenly being led through very rocky and stormy terrain. Those are the times when doubt and uncertainty surface. I think that is a necessary part of all our journies because if we hold onto faith through those times, even though that faith may waiver, we normally come through with an even stronger faith. We are strengthed more, not by the smooth parts of our spiritual journies, but by traveling through the storms and rough parts of the journey.

It's wonderful because we are taking a giant leap of faith to even entrust ourselves to the great unknown. No matter what path we are on.

posted May 28, 2007 12:12 AM         

And yeah, I would say that 4 years of theological studies at the seminary, working in the church, serving my country and community in Americorps putting my faith to work in action by helping the underprivileged in my community would be considered "being into it."

However that does not mean that I can't be on the internet discussing spiritual matters with other spiritual people here does it?

Watching my 3 grand kids who live with us and chasing a 3 year old around all day is all the " outlet " I need for my energy at this time in my life. So if it's okay with you, I find it relaxing and enjoy talking to people about a great many things, including spirituality.

Apparently from what you said you didn't even read my posts above as I have stated many times here at UC and elsewhere that we all have our own journies in life. I allow you yours. Please grant me the same consideration.

When you actually graduate from high school and grow up a bit you might be in a much better position to give advice to someone my age.

You assume a lot, neptune 5 and you assume in error. I think your Christian bigoted slip is showing, girl.

In short:

posted May 28, 2007 10:46 AM         

quote:

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However that does not mean that I can't be on the internet discussing spiritual matters with other spiritual people here does it?

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of course it doesn't, and i didn't say that. But i do admire your wisdom and your ability to share with other people.

quote:

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Apparently from what you said you didn't even read my posts above as I have stated many times here at UC and elsewhere that we all have our own journies in life. I allow you yours. Please grant me the same consideration.

When you actually graduate from high school and grow up a bit you might be in a much better position to give advice to someone my age

---

And then again, its really not about age, and i hate it when all of you use that card on me, in truth, it is your willingness to perceive and participate in matters of humanity. I have strong values and strong passions and I would never be the one to intentionally assume or be spiteful.

And your right, i didn't read your posts, my mistake, and i do that a lot. But i have nothing to hide about it, or anything else.

I just feel like people judge me based off my age and its very frustrating.

posted May 28, 2007 10:55 AM         

quote:

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Thanks for the advice, neptune 5 but I do belong to a faith based organization. It's called the Roman Catholic Church.

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i'm catholic too, but let me extend on that. Maybe you can start your own, possibly for children to understand spirituality more. Like school children, maybe you can start that in your community and let it grow in your state.

You can be an evangelist, if you want too.

Thats all i was suggesting.

posted May 28, 2007 12:09 PM         

Why would I want to start my own religion? I am not interested in being a minister. I follow my journey and so far I do not feel that is the road that God wishes me to travel. It's not my calling.

I taught 8th grade catechism for 3 years. So again, thanks for the advice about teaching children, but I have already done that and now, at this point in my journey I am being led in other directions.

What it seems here is that you would want me to travel a more dogmatic kind of path and sorry, that is not the direction that my spiritual journey is taking me. I deliberately come out of the church environment many times to find out what other people's beliefs are, what other religions and spiritual belief systems are saying.

Apparently I am not a strictly dogmatic person or I would not be here at a metaphysical site now would I?

We learn from talking with others about our spiritual beliefs. Instead of you telling others what you feel they should do on their spiritual journies you should instead be sharing your thoughts and beliefs on spiritual matters.

Regarding age, I am 61 and you are a teen. You haven't had quite as much time or life experience as I have had. That's just a fact, that is not saying that due to your age you cannot be more mature than another your age, but you haven't chalked enough life experience or knowledge as yet to be able to advise someone who has regarding what they should and should not do with their lives. Would you like me telling you what you should and should not do with your life? I doubt it. LOL

I am a Christian. So when I do discuss spiritual matters I will do that in terms that I know. With a Christian, even though many Christians do abuse it and distort it, the Bible or Scriptures will often be a reference point. Just as with someone of the Jewish faith the Torah will be the reference point and with a Muslim the Koran will be their point of reference. Those who do not believe in any organized religion here on the boards of LL will use their books, things they have read and studied as their reference point. Basically I feel we are all saying mostly the same things but using different terms due our points of reference.

However, you certainly did make my point for me about what I was saying here on this thread about how others will, due to their own biases against organized religion of any kind and especially Christianity, will automatically see that reference point of the Bible as "being preached to." Yet, when others speak to me about their beliefs I do not automatically feel they are preaching to me. It's matter of people's perception and I was pointing out that in some cases with some Christians who do go around preaching and trying to force their beliefs on others that perception is correct. However, it does not apply to all Christians and in fact, I would say it doesn't on the whole apply to MOST Christians.

Also, I wish I had a buck for everyone who says they are Catholic and yet, so very many Catholics don't even know about their own religion. You ask them things like what does the Eucharist mean to a Catholic? Why do we stand, sit and kneel at different times during the mass? All kinds of questions like that and they don't even have a clue as to why they worship as they do or the meaning of the Eucharist. LOL It amazed me how very little the 8th grade kids knew about their religion. I think that is the fault of the way the Church makes catechists teach. The fault of the catechists and not the kids. But then again , these kids parents didn't know much about their religion either. They never bothered to learn. They went through all the formalities and obligations without even caring to learn more.

posted May 28, 2007 01:48 PM         

quote:

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And then again, its really not about age, and i hate it when all of you use that card on me, in truth, it is your willingness to perceive and participate in matters of humanity. And your right, i didn't read your posts, my mistake, and i do that a lot. I just feel like people judge me based off my age and its very frustrating.

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posted May 29, 2007 03:33 AM         

You don't really have to look up to me just because of my age though. I always told my kids to question authority if they felt they were wrong. So I don't mind you doing that at all.

I also feel that teens have a lot to say. When I was teaching 8th grade catechism it was so great that these kids had the questions they did. Many times I was amazed by them and I felt that they were teaching me too.

I got "talked to" by a couple of my religious ed directors because I didn't conduct my classes according to the book. These kids had questions and worries. I preferred to let them ask the questions rather than following the book as we were supposed to do and just telling them things in a dogmatic way. What I couldn't answer for certain I told them I will find out and let you know next week and I always did that. So we had discussions and I also tried to make it fun for them. But the Chruch has it's way and everything is laid out so a few times I got talked to about it. That is the main reason that I gave it up. When I tried to do it their way it became boring for me as well as the kids.