posted November 10, 2007 07:48 PM         

quote:

---

Up and down up and down,
if you let go of the seat in front of you,
the ride is much smoother,

---

posted November 10, 2007 08:09 PM         

You spin your shell around you,
and live in it.

You outgrow it, it confines you,
you break free - liberation!

You spin a larger shell.

(Wash, Rinse, Repeat.)

The shell you outgrow,
the shell that shatters,
is not without its use,
and was no mistake.

The wisdom of the earth
is lofty in the underworld.

--------------------------------

We are all at different stages on the path,
judging the others for being where they are.
Forgetting the thing is a circle anyway.
But this is how it should be.
Our judgements are also small truths,
outgrowing their shells;
a little understanding,
overgrowing the Void of ignorance.

---------------------------------

Some people relax on the sidelines.
They flatter themselves that they are not on the path,
and laugh at the others.
But not at themselves.

----------------------------------

It's a silly state of affairs.

----------------------------------

Hear the truth being told to you,
before you hear the falsehood.
Everyone is saying something,
you just have to listen.
Respond to the truth,
then the falsehood.

Everything is true.
Every truth is incomplete.

posted November 10, 2007 08:21 PM         

The ego.

The ego wants to grow beyond itself.

God is happy in a hovel,
and finds a candle to enlighten
what is obscured in the midday sun.

Bringers of the dawn,
Do not rush the dawn.

The dawn is a gathering of many candles,
and every candle a sun.

((or not... just trying to understand))

posted November 10, 2007 09:01 PM         

the number of paths is infinite. some might be paths of relaxation and amusement. at times we are running, but going nowhere. at times we are growing, by staying in one place, like a plant in the sun, sending roots, deep into the earth.

posted November 10, 2007 10:22 PM         

That is true in a sense.

In another sense,

We are never going nowhere,
but always making progress,
and there is only one path.

What you describe is just one part of the path.

No matter what path you take,
there is a point where you move lightly,
and cover a lot of ground,
and a point of rest,
where you really sink your roots in.
At some point, you will be well rested and grounded,
but you will being to stagnate and grow stubborn.
Your precious roots will become as strong chains,
forged over time, and you will be as intent
on breaking free then as you are about growing roots now.
This is also as it should be.
And you will not be any further along then,
than you are now.

When the great winds come, the oak falls,
and the supple reeds bend with the flow.
The person on the path may be oak or reed,
as may the person sitting still -
they are no different.

Progress is not a straight line.
We may seem to go backwards, and make no progress,
or to make unnecessarily slow progress.
But all of this is true only for a moment,
and that moment is one we have arrived at
by those "indirect" channels.
The path zigs and zags,
and is not a straight vertical climb.
And, in the end, it doesnt exist.
Neither does the mountain.
And so on.

You know this song as well as I do.

love to you,
hsc

posted November 10, 2007 10:29 PM         

You might dig my quotes.
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum17/HTML/001601.html

posted November 10, 2007 10:42 PM         

brilliant!

posted November 10, 2007 11:03 PM         

If you arent contradicting yourself,
you're only telling half of the story.
The end should find you back at the beginning.

posted November 11, 2007 01:05 AM         

I'm so happy to hear that you are confused. Because confusion comes before a deeper faith. Confusion is the beginning of true wisdom.

These are the wisest words you have ever spoken:

"God is in the world,

In the details.. in driving the kids to school, brushing your teeth, combing your hair, saying your prayers, and going to bed at a reasonable hour.

Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water; after enlightenment, chop wood, carry water."

I am fixing a carborator, or tuning a piano.. I must remember that i am no better than any other servant."

No servant is above his master. It also applies that no master is above his servant.

"Ultimately, its about being God; mending the leg."

Yes, God healing us within. Transforming us.

BR,

quote:

---

The sage serves to send us back to the god within ourselves.

---

If the sage has done that, the sage has served God well.

A truly good teacher is one who also learns from his/her students.

Snake means transformation. The snake sheds his skin and is transformed. During the process of shedding the skin the snakes eyes glaze over. Snake cannot see well at this time. Sort of describes the way our eyes, that which we think we see, becomes clouded in the state of confusion.

You are being transformed within, HSC. Shedding the old skin and making way for the new.

Your birth animal totem is snake, HSC. Snake has spoken to you in a dream. Don't kill the snake. Embrace it.

posted November 11, 2007 01:42 PM         

Thanks, you said some good things.

I've come across numerous dream interpretations of snakes/serpents, and I'm a little slow to jump to conclusions, but I'm listening for my intuition, to know which feels most right to me. This one sounds a lot like what I'm feeling:

"As a positive symbol, snakes represent knowledge and wisdom. To dream that you escape from or kill a snake, denotes that you will overcome your struggles and come out a blazing winner. This is a great opportunity for renewal and to make changes." http://www.brilliantdreams.com/dream-dictionary/dream-dictionary-s.htm

Sounds pretty good, huh?

I think, in the dream, the snakes appeared in the dead Christmas tree, for the same reason that the water turned brown. The tree, which really represents Christ dead on the cross; a spiritual vision which had run its course and fulfilled its purpose (and needed to be taken down), had been left up, as if it were still Christmas (birth of Christ; birth of a vision). It was time to take him down from the cross, and bury him (so he can ressurrect!). The water turned brown because I played no active role in maintaining its purity. The serpents appeared, like moss on a stone, to remind me to keep it rolling.

The female in the dream removes the dirty water, the last thing that was dragging out this long, painful death, and the trunk of the tree finally snaps. The female is intuition, or unconscious wisdom. I, as conscious intellect and will, confront my fear and hack apart the remaining serpents with my sword; two serpents - duality?. The feeling in the dream is one of triumph, renewed power, and welcome new beginnings. I think that is worth noting.

At least, this is my interpretation,
as a born Snake, or "intepreter of mysteries".

And the feelings and inspiration of the past days have confirmed this. I need to take this lesson, and ground myself more in the world. Even as I use it to inform and fuel my thinking, I must know that this is also my work in the world, and be conscious of that. I really do believe it is a matter of awareness. I have tried to learn this lesson of grounding, being more active, etc., and nothing has worked. I had to find it in my own way. I proved to myself that it is not outside the realm of philosophy, or intellect, and I have used philosophy to arrive at deeper understanding of the surface world, - and seen that deeper understanding lead me right back to the surface. The underworld was not a detour. It was my path. Now many mysteries are opened to me. And I am more confident that being a philosopher is not a process of building ivory towers, with no relation to the world. Rather, it is my business in the world. I never left the world. The further I went, the closer I got. And now I get it. Now, realism has entered into my idealism, and vice versa. My thoughts will continue to correspond more to the process of life as it is lived, and this will communicate itself to all of my being, and I too will be increasingly in the world. See, we did not fall into the world. We have not yet arrived in the world. We only think we have. It is our coiled tail, not our head, which is still in heaven. When we do arrive in the present moment, it will not be in heaven, but on earth. We will see a new Eden. But this means opening our eyes to the world, and to the present, and allowing it to manifest.

I have not taken a step backwards from Determinism,
but I have gone beyond it,
and become more concerned with realism,
and life as it is lived in the world.
It is not that the picture changed,
but it is no longer in black and white.
In fact, all of life seems more colorful.

The surface world is what others tried to tell me about,
while I tried to tell them about the underworld.

I was not wrong,
and I think it is a sign of victory,
that I have learned the lesson which others had for me,
and a mystery that others seem not to have learned the lesson I have for them.
Something to consider.

I do not want to be right, I want to grow.
Beliefs are just steps; you climb them.
You cant take them with you,
and if you dont get beyond them,
you just stay on the same level.
If my beliefs do not change and grow,
then they are poor teachers, and I am a poor student.

I am glad that I finally GOT
something I've been trying to get for so long.

Determinism is the Law of the Father.
The Law of the Father stands,
and is not replaced by another law,
but, fulfilled by the Grace of the Son;
the life of the individual;
God in the world.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
~ Matt 5:17,18

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
~ Romans 8:4

Depending on your point of view,
Determinism may be the Law of Moses,
or the Grace of the Spirit;
and "Free Will" may be either, too.
But you cannot know the meaning of the one,
without knowing the meaning of the other.

"What comes from God to us,
returns from us to God."
~ Plato

Love to all,
Stephen

posted November 11, 2007 01:46 PM         

- Sufi proverb

The "thing" is the search.

Being is seeking.
Go with it. Trust it.
What choice have you got.

“All that is gold does not glitter,
not all those who wander are lost;
the old that is strong does not wither,
deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
a light from the shadows shall spring;
renewed shall be blade that was broken,
the crownless again shall be king.”
~ J.R.R. Tolkien

posted November 11, 2007 01:46 PM         

Delicate omens traced in air
To the lone bard true witness bare;
Birds with auguries on their wings
Chanted undeceiving things
Him to beckon, him to warn;
Well might then the poet scorn
To learn of scribe or courier
Hints writ in vaster character;
And on his mind, at dawn of day,
Soft shadows of the evening lay.
For the prevision is allied
Unto the thing so signified;
Or say, the foresight that awaits
Is the same Genius that creates.

~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

posted November 13, 2007 12:47 AM         

And I'm all, "Now what?"

Its not a bad place to be.

posted November 13, 2007 01:09 AM         

He's at the CrossRoad. The Fork in the Path. The whole world is so wide open before him with any possibilities he may bring forth.
He can go any direction...
but notice how he gazes towards the glowing Sun on the Horizon. How the river draws him magnetically there.

His heart is compelled towards the Sun.

posted November 13, 2007 01:24 AM         

quote:

---

And I'm all, "Now what?"

Its not a bad place to be.

---

yeah, that too.

Everything is always at Zero
and everything is always open before you.
When you come to feel that freedom,
there's no other feeling like it.
You never really choose a path.
CrossRoads emerge, on and on, again and again.
Rivers always flow out to Sea.
Horizons always kiss the Sun.

Love