posted November 14, 2007 10:51 AM         

>>>>Practice one act of self lessnes and releasing that to Oversoul PLUS practising 100s of mental acts of selflessness, like sending unconditional energy with EMOTIONS to heal all the children in a cancer hospital with full concentration, as if you can really do this, and rejoicing at their healing as if it happened, these mental acts can burn karma in tons. However, realizations must occur in parallel. Pride at karma burning is a glue that furiously allows Planets to get rvenege if they spot weakness, says JOhn BAines

posted November 15, 2007 08:24 AM         

Anyhow, I've already started on a digressed note, but here goes.

quote:

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Karma

Does it exist? What do you think?

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My opinion always changes every time someone asks this question, and it does seem to happen quite often. That is an aspect of what this forum is about. In any case, it is always a tough question and as you point out may be seen negatively or positively as there always seems to be "good" or "bad" karma, and in term luck. People's lives may be considered fortunate, lucky, easy-sailing, or down-right hard. The point is, we all live our own lives irrespective of others, and yet, you can never escape competition, envy, or any other base emotions. We are all human and not too evolved at that. If we were evolved, I do not think there would be a term coined "the tall poppy syndrome". I think this is prevalent in Australia more than most places, but I'm not too sure about this, I think it's everywhere. Too escape it shows real strength of character. Anyhow, at present, I do believe in karma (as always) but not as strongly as I used to. I believe at the moment that they may be termed "pre-conceived choices", but it should always be remembered that nothing is set in stone, you can break cycles and make different choices, but this can be a difficult road. It's so very easy to go with the flow.

I'm not too sure about the Material / Spiritual karma as I think all people have these to a degree. Have you read the fortunate numbers like 23, 24, and 27? They all seem to imply that you have to be aware of your good fortune in order to have a good next life too, but if you never read this, you would never know, so the fact that you have could be considered a spiritual lesson that only you have learnt, but others could learn similar things in different ways. I'm just saying a rich kid could be very spiritual without ever understanding numerology or the plight of third world countries, but because she doesn't learn these things may mean that she chooses to first hand next life. I would not consider this next life as a negative experience (as there's no such thing) but just something to get to the next life. She may give great happiness to her family and community that she may not have been able to tap into without such an easy previous life. In any case, this is one theory and shows how dynamic these things can be.

quote:

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Is there really a difference between spirit and matter?

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Now, I like this question as it poses a question for me: is spirit energy, and if not, what is it? All things have levels. Matter may be dense or airy. So is spirit high energy or low. The e = mc squared equation always comes to mind as meaning all things are equal, there is not differentiation between energy and matter, so where does spirit fit? Well, I think ultimately, spirit, like soul, is energy with consciousness. The more it is used for passivity, the higher the energy and greater the results, but the opposite is true too (although negative results can be just as powerful). The difference for me between positive and negative is that the former grows and expands, while the later contracts and repeats.

posted November 15, 2007 08:25 AM         

quote:

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Does everything come and go?

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Yes, all energy flows through all other energy. Recycle is just the cycle returning and revolving (evolving and loving?). When we say we are all one, this can sometimes be very meaningless as there doesn't seem to be room to grow, but considering the path of one life into the next can give imagination to growth, but who's growth? The higher self, soul, spirit, god part, etc? These are really just mental constructs that assist with understanding concepts we may find useful throughout this life. Imagine re-membering all your past lives! Ever read Dune? Great books.

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Have we all incarnated as avatars many times?

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Yes, we have always existed in every form. You could also say we have incarnated as bums many times. It's difficult to comprehend how many lives could have lead to yours, considering that time doesn't exist and that we are all the same soul, but see, you could be a conscious existence of any number of combinations from different life experiences that make up that soul, hence, we are literally reincarnated from everyone else, but also a select few. The less the influence, the less crazy we are

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Who really knows?

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Is this annoying you to answer every question? No one knows or we wouldn't exist. It is always the learning and growing, or being that is everything. Knowing always seems temporary - just until that next question pops.

The reincarnation thing is explained again by being One. I read a great quote, but my memories pretty poor, it went something like:

God sleeps in the stone
God dreams in the trees
God awakens in animals
God feels in people

Or something to that effect. Hopefully you get the point that all has a purpose and all is God, and we are all.

quote:

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Perhaps this is how it must be?

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This sounds like a Koan to me. If they wait for everyone else, who will ever take that final leap? I feel no one really wants to or they wouldn't be here. However, it is great that with their understanding that they do help others and exist with such awareness. That can only be a great thing for the world.

quote:

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What do you think and why?

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Why's always a great question and all why's lead to God, and yet "Why is God?" The reason I believe as I do is to try to spread positivity to overcome negativity and extend the world's life. I'm not always positive though, and not too active, but it does help me in any case to see the world in a positive light. It helps me live a more carefree existence. A Pearl Jam quote "I don't question our existence, I just question... Our modern needs". I don't think this is just IT, but material wealth in general. As the select few get wealthier, the rest get poorer which in turn will impact the next generations of the rich in a negative spiral. SO many times the world seems to grow though, it is a beautiful thing to see.

guy_me_19, very well said. I remember we've had great conversations in the past about physics and maths. What do you think creates force?

The terms potential energy, kinetic, and work don't seem so clear to me. I think I was taught Potential is the energy at a stand still - like above the ground a meter, and the maximum kinetic is just before hitting the ground, and on the ground is minimum potential and work is the product of momentum and energy? I can't remember work (and don't feel like googling), but in any case, I wanted to make the point that the object has the potential to be raised more than a metre which would increase the kinetic energy. What if the object was then taken to the moon at light speed? Does that mean it's potential has sky rocketed? I find the terms confusing.

Mannu, I once read that 1 in 4 Americans believe Karma is fact. Not sure how reliable this (or any data) is though.

I like your philosophies Zanya.

Heaps of Love,
Dean.

------------------
I realized it for the first time in my life:
there is nothing but mystery in the world,
how it hides behind the fabric of our poor,
browbeat days, shining brightly, and we don't even know it.

Sue Monk Kidd, "The Secret Life of Bees", p79

posted November 15, 2007 12:22 PM         

quote:

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The reason I believe as I do is to try to spread positivity to overcome negativity and extend the world's life.

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awesome.

posted November 15, 2007 12:44 PM         

Cool

God shines in the sun?

posted November 15, 2007 11:50 PM         

So you mean 25 % believe in Karma in the Americas. Interesting.

Guy19s post here has made me rethink about why Karma exists just being in existence. Just as the ball held above the ground holds potential energy because of earths gravity acting on it. As it rolls the PE becomes KE. The conservation of energy is protected in that case.

But where is the apriori of all forces ?
It is why its said perhaps the Cosmos just is. Forever existing since beginning yet changing over time. Like a river. It just flows eternally.

In India they say, all enlightened masters do not have any Karma at all. Its humans who have to burn their karmas and reach such state as their Masters.

How could they not have karmas. Don't they talk, move their bodies etc, i.e perform some work in our realistic universe? Lets say the real estate of master and disciples are 100 acres each. 0.1 acre of that field in a master shows smooth quantum fluctuations. While the constant chatter/fluctuations in a disciple is 50 acre or even more.
Hence Masters karma never overpowers them.

We too can achieve that state.
I have posted Shiva sutras here at LL.
Shiva means (auspicious) energy. Universe does not have a cause. It created itself.

posted November 16, 2007 02:50 PM         

I'll respond when I can,
I havent even read what you wrote yet,
except for the first paragraph.

Actually,
it looks like you skipped
the one question I really wanted
an answer to:
"Can a person's karma be measured or estimated
based on the evidence of this present life?"

That was actually why I started the thread.
I hoped someone would try to answer that.

I'll get back to you.

Thank for putting so much time, energy, and thought into it.

hsc

posted November 16, 2007 06:05 PM         

Or suffering inside because of someone you love.

posted November 17, 2007 05:31 AM         

Yeah, I remember the discussions we had. I even saved them - found them so interesting.

As for your (rhetorical?) questions to me, I only wanted to 'add in' that we can have various names to call something. God is called by so many names. Similarly, in science we have various models to study something which actually is or at least whose effect is felt. Mathematical models (mathematical expressions and equations), computer generated graphical models etc etc. In the end what we study is what is and the rest simply is 'in theory'. For example there is a thing as a complex number. Now this complex number can't be used to count physical things for which we use natural numbers (1, 2, 3...). However, complex numbers are employed in as early as undergraduate electromagnetism (to study AC current), etc. Similar is the concept of energy, too! I only wished to emphasize that force is what actually IS. Thus Newton wrote, F = Ma. On this, he applied mathematics thereby building mechanics and we had other equations and the concept of energy followed. The master equation F = Ma. It is with this equation that one can solve all problems in mechanics without any reference to energy whatsoever. (Obviously, one also needs the simple equations of motion, which one gets from calculus anyway, here, I talk of physics.) All other equations simply follow this master equation. One could say:

This master equation (F = Ma) + mathematics = all of mechanics!

We could do with the left side of this above equation. That is, we employ only mathematics and the master equation, F = Ma. It is because the right side (all of mechanics!) is the simplified version of the left side and is thus more scientific, more interpretable, that we use it. This side includes within itself the concept of energy.

We use the concept of energy simply because it helps us in the interpretations and because the mathematical formula of energy is a term that comes so often -- when mechanics, with the help of mathematics is build on the equation F = Ma -- in the equations... thus why not give it a definite name so that one hasn't to say it aloud n number of times? Hope I made myself perfectly clear! Today, energy is a concept without which one can't do because it has got into our scientific consciousness so deeply because of reiterations.

In India, like I said, almost EVERYONE believes in the cycle of birth and rebirth. It is just the way society is here. Simple. (As I have never been outside the country, so I don't know and can only guess the fabric of Christian/America society.) If you believe in that, you obviously have to believe in Karma. Which I understand is that you understand is some sort of akashic record of our doings and misdoings in our celestial journey since the beginning of time?

Thus, one has to believe in one such 'record' if one believes in this cycle of birth and rebirth. It is most inevitable. This record is named as karma. Period.

And I hope all you guys will now say of me what Bassanio spoke of Gratiano in Merchant of Venice; let me say it myself:

"His reasons are as two grains of wheat hid in two bushels of chaff: you shall seek all day ere you find them, and when you have them they are not worth the search." (Act 1, Scene 1, line 115.)

posted November 17, 2007 09:49 AM         

BTW I was listening to guide all week last week.

Not sure of shakespeare, but Jesus said "seek and you shall find it. and when you find it it will set you free.".

Perhaps when we realize ourselves and our place in cosmos. That truth instead of binding us will liberate us. It will not hold you any more. This applies to karma, astrology, numerology , etc.

Perhaps Shakespeare is hinting that when you have found what you went in search of , you only found emptiness . That is the real you. All ur difficulties were set by you alone. The wheel of karma was spun by you.

The only eternal thing in the cosmos is Dhamma or Dharma. It is never cyclic but like a straight line.

posted November 20, 2007 04:00 PM         

I don't feel up to writing the two separate incidents right now, but it was surreal.

So, yes, I am convinced.

Do I believe bad things happen to good people and vice-versa? Absolutely. But everything evens out in the end - for good or bad.

posted November 22, 2007 08:01 AM         

As Zanya has stated:

quote:

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i see karma as guidance rather than payback. sometimes we must add and at times we must subtract. as the moon waxes and wanes. as goddess bestows and relieves.

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posted November 22, 2007 08:01 AM         

Mannu, what do you mean "But where is the apriori of all forces"? This makes me wonder about how we are the change we want in the world, and hence, the Potential we have being infinite, subtracting the small amount of kinetic energy actually doing stuff, still equals infinite Force according to Guys's formula (not sure how much work this is?) So, in any case, the overall universal force is unchanged - we just tap in and do stuff as others perhaps tap out. So maybe there is a balance, but maybe we could try harder to tip the scales? I think I'm not even making sense to myself, but I feel it's in there somewhere Are you saying "burning karma" is a good thing? I thought from your firs post on this page that it sounded bad, like the Yogi will be a snail in the next life, but why would this be bad, the Universe being infinite? What is your understanding of Dharma? So often people ask of Karma, and I can't remember a thread about Dharma.

SattvicMoon,that concept is very enlightening - Nishkama Karma. Does this mean "negative" actions are also dedicated to God, or that the awareness in conducting these actions is increased because the point of view has changed?

MUSTANG, it is one of my fundamental philosophies that an action and reaction are not necessarily related. In many cases they are, but I guess theorizing about the minority is more fun In any case, the "reaction" could be coincidental and paying back for a previous or future action. By taking this view, it maximizes the number of positive actions you have in order to receive a maximum number as well (also for minimizing effects of bad actions). In any case, when you attribute a one-to-one relationship, it leaves out the complexity of what may really be going on. I've found understanding your numbers can help understand why your life has a certain flavor even if you are a "good" person. That said, I completely agree with you that it can seem to happen where you see the action and reaction, and I think this is God playing with you

posted November 22, 2007 09:01 AM         

quote:

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SattvicMoon,that concept is very enlightening - Nishkama Karma. Does this mean "negative" actions are also dedicated to God, or that the awareness in conducting these actions is increased because the point of view has changed?

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This cannot be explained without talking about Dharma. Karma and Dharma goes hand in hand with it's functionalities. Dharma can be roughly transalated into the word "responsibility", but there is more to it. So, when Karma is performed according to one's Dharma, there are no good/positive or bad/negative Karmic forces generated.

posted December 05, 2007 09:23 AM         

i think i heard it in this board " the father's sins are visited uopn his sons "

that is so Karma.
this story is from the Bhagavad Gita
.a bird catcher had spread bait in a field near a big banyan tree on which , being the breeding season a lot of birds had built their nests and had little birdlings to feed . but the birds guessed such ready availability of food was a trap and didn't bite the bait. they flew away to gather food for their young. the birdcathcer ended up sweating it in the sun all day to an empty net. enraged and frustrated he set fire to the tree. when the birds returned they came back to their nests burning with their birdlings. the air was full of the screeching of their offspring for their parents . it is known that all animals and birds love their young as well as us.
the birds in despair flew straight into the flames to get to their nests but the flames burnt their wings and eyes. they all fell to the ground, burnt, blinded, broken hearted , left to hear the last cries of their children screeching for their parents.

25 lives after this that hunter was reborn as king Dhritharashtra , the ruler whose sons fought the battle that led to the Bhagavad Gita.he had a 100 sons, brave and strong but he was born, BLIND. he did not see his beloved sons grow up.he did not fight the war with them either. before this EPIC war was to be fought the sage who wrote the Gita, asked him if he wanted the power of clairvoyance so he could witness this great war. he declined, but asked his devoted personal servant to be given that power instead.
every single day that the great battle was fought , this king, who was blind heard horrendous accounts of the violent deaths of each and every of his 100 sons .he had never seen them, could not help them as they were dying and he was hearing a blow by blow account of the tragedy that destroyed his family and left him to die childless.
KARMA
but he was only held accountable for that one incident. why ? why not all those other birds he had caught in his life to sell.
becoz, to qualify as Karma u have to identify ur EGO with doing it. an act done without any ego - identification frees u fron the repercussions.that is what the GITA is all about.
to give a western edge to Karma, it is we who create Karma. we r NON- DUAL spirtual beings having a human experience. we incarnate in a DUAL reality. now what happens, when we experience something, anything, our Non Dual nature eggs our mind to balance the Duality by experiencing the exact OPPOSITE
KARMA is not PAYBACK. it is Balance. and we r in CONTROL. make no mistake bout that.

like Linda so clearly expalined in Star Signs, Karma can be balanced in any way we what. not necessarily by paying for what we do.
and why did the kings sons suffer ? they had done no harm to the birds , right ?

wrong. a mans DNA which is encoded in his sperm contains his ENTIRE spiritual evolution, from the first life to this.that is the 90% junk DNA that the scientists say has no purpose becoz it does not correlate to any physical aspects of the body. our mind creates Dna.
Any chants, mantras, spoken with deep concentration have the power to change Dna , even erase Karma.
http://www.redicecreations.com/connections/more/DNA.html

when a soul chooses to incarnate it chooses parents who contain the personality and spiritual background it wants to experience and grow in.
also unprotected sex leads to a merging of DNA and hence Karma. a husbands karma is that of his wife and viceversa.

so even though she was innocent the kings wife also had to bear the brunt of his deeds.

tricky game Karma. but always easy to play

posted December 05, 2007 12:13 PM         

something related to the ideas you've posted here about karma...i've stated this a few times before, but i think that the concept of "original sin" so prevalent in the catholic church is their parallel to the idea of the karma we are born with.

the ritual of baptisim i suppose is a way of "purifying" the imprint of previous lives, and that of the "dna" we are born with. some believe that ritual is a very powerful tool for transmuting such things.

one author i particularly like, who encourages ritual and prayer (not exactly how she describes it) for the purpose of resolving karmic issues is Diane Stein.

posted December 05, 2007 12:21 PM         

she was very serious about this activity, always ensuring that she had enough food and water for the birds who visited her dwelling.

posted December 05, 2007 04:46 PM         

Venusdeindia, thats an awesome story that I didn't hear before. Mahabharat is so vast. The blind king was everything good except when it came to his sons. Did he not take care of his dead brother's children?

The most difficult path of the person in whole of Mahabharata is that of Kunti. She had to face lots of troubles. Separation of her own first child, loss of husband, etc. And everyone knows she is the one who channelled Gods to bear children.

The Karma can be controlled or balanced or transcended. But its balancer is dhamma. Dhamma is ever eternal. If u are in dhamma u will not fear karma. Theres a story in the bible and they say while Adam was eating the apple on eve's insistence, she told him about the serpent and he stopped eating. Thats why men have Adam's apple. In the east the hindus believe the karma is physically present in the throat and shoulders. If you have a stiff shoulder u are suffering from bad karma. Ever hear the saying "don't carry the weight of the world on your shoulder". People constantly worry about unconnected people all the time. Perhaps they have enough time on their hand for those non sense.

Theres a guru in east who is pursuing this thing called "soul genetics". He observed from chinese, japanese and indian traditions that majority of them pay homage to their ancestors. It seems these ancestors visit earth on new moon days mostly. When we are born to our birth father and mother, we inherit the soul body that contains all the memories from a very long time and we die we leave our own experiential imprints on them. Hence we must respect the departed souls who may hover around the earth for whatever reasons and may visit you. Theres a technique he gives and that is hold some sesame seeds, rice grains and a special type of grass (can't remember now - it was called dharba grass) and hold it in the palm of your right hand and as you pour water call in mind six generations of ur paternal and maternal ancestors. It will clear ur energy of bad karmas and allow newer beginnings for you.

Theres a old argument between wise buddhists and some wise hindus on cessation of dharma. hindus believe buddha returned from the state of nothingness and he said there is no God. Some hindus say there is a God beyond Nothingness. According to them human will also be able to ascend and make their physical, like soul body/light body at will. i.e They will be able to manifest any time and anywhere even in flesh and bones when that happens. Time will tell whats going on. Perhaps 2012 will be something or nothing at all
Even Corinthians of NT says "Death will be defeated".

hahah....is that why eve is free from sin already and adam is not and thats how his sins visits his children.