posted July 25, 2008 04:50 AM         

Often, to pass the time on board, the crew
will catch an albatross, one of those big birds
which nonchalantly chaperone a ship
across the bitter fathoms of the sea.

Tied to the deck, this sovereign of space,
as if embarrassed by its clumsiness,
pitiably lets its great white wings
drag at its sides like a pair of unshipped oars.

How weak and awkward, even comical
this traveller but lately so adroit --
one deckhand sticks a pipestem in its beak,
another mocks the cripple that once flew!

The Poet is like this monarch of the clouds
riding the storm above the marksman's range;
exiled on the ground, hooted and jeered,
he cannot walk because of his great wings.

posted July 25, 2008 04:59 AM         

The greatest enemy of any one of our truths may be the rest of our truths.
~ William James

In searching for the truth be ready for the unexpected.
Change alone is unchanging.
The same road goes both up and down.
The beginning of a circle is also its end.
Not I, but the world says it: all is one.
And yet everything comes in season.
~ Heraclitus

"A poet is a child of the Springtime." ~ Valerian

"The Holy Longing"

Tell a wise person or else keep silent
For the massman will mock it right away.
I praise what is truly alive
And what longs to be burned to death.
In the calm waters of the love nights
Where you were begotten,
Where you have begotten,
A strange feeling comes over you
When you see the silent candle burning.
Now you are no longer caught in this obsession with darkness
And a desire for higher lovemaking sweeps you upward.
Distance does not make you falter.
And now, arriving in magic, flying
and finally, insane for the light
You are the butterfly.
And you are gone.
And so long as you haven’t experienced this,
To die and so to grow,
You are only a troubled guest on a dark earth.

posted July 25, 2008 05:02 AM         

~ IMMANUEL KANT
An Answer to the Question: "What is Enlightenment?"
Konigsberg in Prussia, 30th September, 1784.

posted July 25, 2008 03:21 PM         

quote:

---

Wow I can see the correlation! This is not something I would not over rule.Madness and genius totally interconnected.
Very cool link. Thanks

---

Yes, I think they're somehow connected too. Artistic genius, in particular. Mad poets are a dime a dozen, aren't they? There are tons of seriously unbalanced artists who have displayed creative genius (Van Gogh, Rimbaud, Tasso), but I can't offhand think of a mad genius who would honestly qualify as spiritualy enlightened.

The connection between madness and genius is worth a little contemplation, I think. Does madness allow genius to escape the confines of an otherwise suppressed soul, or does genius flower despite the pain and distraction of madness?

If nothing else, the spiritually advanced are a balanced and healthy lot. And what is madness really but just an imbalance?

Mannu? Thoughts?

Thus there are three ways in which we can go astray and deviate from the proper path of esoteric training. We can fall into willful violence, into sentimental luxuriating in feelings, or into a cold, loveless striving after wisdom. Viewed from the outside - by materialistic psychiatry, for instance - people who go astray in these ways do not seem very different, certainly not in degree, from those who are insane or at least extremely neurotic. The important thing is to ensure that thinking, feeling, and willing - the three fundemental forces of the soul - have developed harmoniously before they are freed from the connection implanted in them and become subject to the awakened higher consciousness. If any mistake is made in this development and one of the three basic human forces loses restraint, then the higher soul's birth into existence will be a miscarriage. When this happens, unrestrained force completely floods our whole personality, and it will be a long time before balance can begin to be restored.

posted July 25, 2008 09:47 PM         

The poster of video is ignorant of many things.
Enlightenement is not of the chemicals.

Does madness allow genius to escape the confines of an
otherwise suppressed soul, or does genius flower despite the pain and distraction of madness?

When you watch an enlightenened person closely, you will not only find him mystical but even artful.
Art is creativity. That is the intelligence behind art. Genius is too superficial of a word to describe
the madness of a person like buddha or jesus. The artists and enlightened one's madness looks the same on the outside to an observer but they are different. And usage of the word Genius seems to suggest strenthening of the ego, so most of us use that word as if they achieved a feat. There is always this prize to be gotten in the end.

BTW, You will always find a creative mileu around an enlightened
person when he/she is alive on earth. Its a different story that after they die, their legacy becomes sort of institute. The whole creativity is absent. I mean look at boring masses in the church and boring lectures of the imam
It will be some more time before the west understands eastern mysticism. They have understood christianity. The western mysticism. Hence you find such videos popping up. Deep down in them there are doubts that needs to be addressed. Faith has already failed them. What to do? Like most of us they too are born accidentally in whatever religion they are born in to LOL

posted July 26, 2008 02:07 AM         

~ Tom Robbins

posted July 26, 2008 02:44 AM         

quote:

---

I can't offhand think of a mad genius who would honestly qualify as spiritualy enlightened.

---

Of course you can't.

You have already defined enlightenment for yourself,
despite the fact that you have no direct experience of it,
and you dismiss anything that does not correspond
to your preconceived conclusion as to what enlightenment is.

This is not real thinking.

Now, if you want to say that you cant think of a mad genius who was balanced,
that is something that no one here can debate, nor is anyone here attempting to debate that.

If you want to argue that elightenment equals balance, you may do that, too.
But, to begin from the assumption that this is understood,
is not to move the discussion forwards, but backwards.

... At least, in my ever so humble opinion.

And I think it is interesting to say that mad poets are a dime a dozen.
Exceptional mad poets are not so common, just as exceptional gurus are not so common.
Shakespeare, for instance, is one of a kind.
I'm not sure the same could be said of Sakyamuni.

Indeed, it is the nature of artistic genius to be individualistic;
while you may see that there are many so-called mad poets,
do you also see that they are each uniquely individual?
Whereas the ones you call rare and enlightened
have, for the most part, merely conformed to a homogenous standard.

Many people have claimed to be enlightened,
and many people have been hailed as enlightened gurus,
but, it seems to me, that true balance (if we define enlightenment this way)
is much more rare than the people who claim balance, and are called balanced.
And the fact that it is so rare may suggest the futility of aspiring to it.
For every Buddha or Christ, there are millions of seekers
who spend their lives sacrificing in mortal drudgery, to no apparent end.

But, as for all the gurus who have been called enlightened
(and I'm sure we can agree there have been many),
what was it that convinced the masses of seekers?
Was it not that they appeared to exude an aura of calm and authority; of balance?
I see these types as strongly Saturnian and Neptunian,
with both planets making them somewhat subdued,
while Saturn inclines them to imagine themselves as authorities,
and Neptune feeds this delusion, and makes them charismatic.
But, if you listen closely to the words that come out of their mouths,
you will find that they frequently contradict one another,
despite a rather homogenous and dogmatic attachment to tradition.

As I see it, this is just the difference between east and west.
Great men, or pseudo-great men, of the east speak of ostensibly spiritual matters,
and it is simply the tradition to speak this way and practice these things,
and, when one has attained some level of distinction,
to be hailed by the crowd as some kind of enlightened being.
In the western tradition, spirituality is less overt,
but, to my way of seeing, it is present no less than in the east.
Ultimately, the differences are not as striking as the similarities.

Sai Baba has made impressive humanitarian efforts,
and is regarded by vast numbers of people as enlightened,
because he remains calm, doesnt lose his temper,
and promotes the traditions of the east with charisma.
He is considered balanced. And yet, he is largely a fraud.
His slight-of-hand magic tricks are no evidence of saddhis.
And much of what he says is personal opinion, and mistaken,
but it is spoken with authority, along with the traditional jargon,
and it is swallowed whole, right along with everything else.

Osho was hailed as an enlightened man.
But owed his appearance of balance to Valium,
and to the obscene luxury in which he lived his life.
Many of his views are categorically false and harmful,
and yet they are expressed with great charisma and authority,
and they claim to pertain to the realm of spritual things,
so, naturally, he must be a spiritual man, lol.

Really, it is just a matter of temperament.
You see someone with a choleric-phlegmatic disposition,
and you think to yourself, "here is a well balanced personality".
You see someone with a sanguine-melancholic disposition,
and your think to yourself, "my god, what a mess".
But this is largely determined by your own bias,
as a person of a somewhat choleric-phlegmatic bent.
On the other hand, a sanguine-melancholic person like myself,
might look at the person you called "balanced",
and say, "what a boring, domineering stuffed-shirt",
and, looking at the person who to you is just "a mess",
might say, "my god, what a creative, exciting, and original thinker".

And round and round we go.

posted July 26, 2008 03:01 AM         

Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue.
It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.
~ Oscar Wilde

Conservatism makes no poetry, breathes no prayer, has no invention; it is all memory.
~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

I believe that it is better to be free than to be not free, even when the former is dangerous and the latter safe. I believe that the finest qualities of man can flourish only in free air – that progress made under the shadow of the policeman's club is false progress, and of no permanent value. I believe that any man who takes the liberty of another into his keeping is bound to become a tyrant, and that any man who yields up his liberty, in however slight the measure, is bound to become a slave.
~ H.L. Mencken

My mother said to me, "If you become a soldier, you'll be a general;
if you become a monk, you'll end up as the Pope."
Instead, I became a painter and wound up as Picasso.
~ Pablo Picasso

A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write,
if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. ~ Abraham Maslow

What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered. ~ Emerson

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices,
but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence and fulfills the duty to express the results of his thought in clear form.
~ Albert Einstein

This is what I believe:
That I am I.
That my soul is a dark forest.
That my known self will never be more than a little clearing in the forest.
That gods, strange gods, come forth from the forest into the clearing of my known self, and then go back.
That I must have the courage to let them come and go.
That I will never let mankind put anything over me,
but that I will try always to recognize and submit to the gods in me,
and the gods in other men and women.
There is my creed.
~ D.H. Lawrence

Tell me whom you love and I will tell you who you are. ~ Houssaye

posted July 26, 2008 03:43 AM         

To give readers an example: Nietzsche though Jesus was not enlightened and Pilot was better than Jesus. And why? Because he thought Jesus kept quiet when Pilot asked of him what is the truth? Nietzsche is just another ahole in my opinion. From my perspective and I am sure all people who have become enlightened, they will hail Jesus for being silent on that question. Why answer to fools. Accept crucifixion rather.

All things are auspicious - the hindus scriptures says. This is such a profound truth when one understands it. So I accept everyone's opinion and freedom. Who am i to call N an ahole LOL

Everyone has another life as a choice if they want to say no to Masters. The next life is per their causal bodies until they become enlightened. Existence is fair

Just trying to provide my version of answers to authentic seekers. There are facts and there are Truths. Facts no one can argue upon. All humans sees trees as green. But truth must be experienced individually. Fortunate or unfortunate it is the only way provided by existence. Off my soap box for some time now.

posted July 26, 2008 04:19 AM         

~ youtube comment

posted July 26, 2008 04:24 AM         

Jesus answered all of Pilate's questions.

He answered the last question, "What is truth?" with silence.

That WAS his answer.

"He who understands, does not speak; He who speaks, does not understand."

posted July 26, 2008 08:42 AM         

Perhaps you read it somewhere that "silence" is the anwer . Perhaps your understanding is just intellectual. You must always mean what you say. I now have to give a thumbs up to Neeche for being original...trying to reason everything out , his usual hallmark. Perhaps he wants Jesus to give some answer and escape his ordeal. Why die for idiots? Its a waste cause. Neeche used to love signing anything he wrote with an anti-christ in the end. He would even say if someone slaps you on one cheek , don't give the other. I agree with him on that.

Also look at the idiocacy in the bible in which Jesus makes claims to being the son of God. Was Jesus really not enlightened as Neeche projects? Why did Jesus even encourage this stupid idea around him. Isn't Jesus of the bible paradoxical? One moment saying something idiotic and next behaving like a Master. Who is really exhibiting BPD? Neeche or Jesus ? LOL

Its an interesting spin to the story by the gospel writers. Fictitious perhaps but stimulating. Anyhow was trying to explain that "reasoning" does not get you to enlightenment. Existence is as paradoxical as well. So you must learn to accept it. If 2+2 = 4 accept it..if 2+2 = 3 then too accept it.

Don't ask why the leaves are green? Or why water boils at 100 deg c. When you are enlightened there will be more mysterious observations which I can't get in to right now . Later.

Also don't bad mouth Masters you have no clue about. It will affect your karma. Many masters of the past have spoken and spoken but the world failed to understand.
Unlike Jesus many masters like Buddha etc, were available for a long time for seekers of truth. I think its time the west moves away from christianity - the people are going mad with what was fed to them. Half truths. Very very dangerous.

Nuff said.

posted July 26, 2008 09:11 AM         

Such is the state of an enlightened person after finding his center.

The sufi people dance because in that dance they are in tune with that center.
How mathematical and artsy those sufi saints may be to have devised that method for mankind

posted July 26, 2008 10:41 AM         

Have to say this Haiku from me.

Enjoy.

quote:

---

Hear the noise of the torrent.
You on one shore and your lover on the other.
You and she runs on the bridge and come closer.
They never meet , they never meet.

---

posted July 26, 2008 06:12 PM         

Knowledge is centre without circumference. So how could poem be the circumference of knowledge? It is absurd.

Hmm Shelley , Leo wisdom I suppose. I admire his thought process though.
He is trying to project that Poems are divine and it takes the listener to the center of that divinity.

quote:

---

THE moon shines in my body, but my blind eyes cannot see it:
The moon is within me, and so is the sun.
The unstruck drum of Eternity is sounded within me; but my deaf ears cannot hear it.

-Kabir

---

posted July 26, 2008 07:00 PM         

Have you learned this yet:

"The opposite of a trivial truth is false; the opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"The greatest enemy of any one of our truths may be the rest of our truths." ~ William James

The poem circumferences knowledge in the sense that it is open-ended, free, and flowing;
because it takes up the thread of existence where it finds it,
and leaves it frayed and dancing in the wind; to be taken up again.

Remember, my friend, Leo has his wisdom, too.

Pisces could not "circumference" the zodiac without Leo.

Shelley, incidentally, had his Moon in Pisces;
which may be more indicative of the soul's evolution than the Sun.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The fountains mingle with the river,
And the rivers with the ocean;
The winds of heaven mix forever,
With a sweet emotion;
Nothing in the world is single;
All things by a law divine
In one spirit meet and mingle;--
Why not I with thine?

See the mountains kiss high heaven,
And the waves clasp one another;
No sister flower would be forgiven,
If it disdained it's brother;
And the sunlight clasps the earth,
And the moonbeams kiss the sea;--
What is all this sweet work worth,
If thou kiss not me?

posted July 26, 2008 08:30 PM         

The only reason I commented on Shelley's quote is because he asked an open question to others after defending poetry by that quote. And I wish he was there to read my comments. I wanted to say more. Sorry but to him. Not to you

Oh btw, I love Leo wisdom. I purposely didn't edit the word "though". It was crafted. I was only experimenting. I am a Leo cusp BTW and love myself and always open about it here at lindaland. Shows how much aware we are don't we? Wish we could someday be in contact using the language of silence

posted July 26, 2008 08:52 PM         

Yes I agree.In fact I loved what you said there. But the poem cannot be at the center at the same time. I was objecting to that. Even you quoted it previously some place "balance is boring". When the poem is said the balance is lost. It has to return to the center.

Oh jeez we are philosiphising poetry.

Google for meaning of the word Haiku, if you must . will you?

posted July 26, 2008 09:03 PM         

Oh intellectual quote from a scientist.

I say unto you:
Truth has to be discovered not invented.
Invented truths could be falsity in disguise.

And Shelley seem to have invented that "quote" in question from some story. I don't think he discovered it. He is unenlightened. Most of what he says comes from mind. Ok this needs reiteration: it must just be me. Others don't have to buy that

>>>The greatest enemy of any one of our truths may be the rest of our truths. -William James

Ok quote of an american who went in search of religious truth.

Truth has no enemy. Everywhere truth is. It has to be discovered in ones own inner nature. Do not borrow light of a buddha or a jesus or anyone. Infact do not worry about others truth. When you have the inner light you need not fear about enemies. Then you will find the whole existence is your friend. There is no enemy. Every one is a buddha waiting to be awakened.We have invested in lies in all our several lifetimes including this one. When one truth stirs your soul really, those investments takes a hit and we recognize false as false. This is what James is alluding to. Will also add that this process goes on until you find your center.

posted July 29, 2008 07:42 AM         

I have just read Gopi Krishna's book: The Real Nature of Mystical Experience -
and am now reading Kundalini - they're all online if you look - one mentions that mental asylums have a lot of enlightened people and clairvoyants as this meditation or being aware can as well as lots of other stuff bring out our psychic abilities...- check him out...he writes so well and easy to understand: ...he is really great...one of the best authors ive ever come across...
http://www.koausa.org/Kundalini/

"People who have psychic or spiritual experiences often have an activated Kundalini, and this imposes certain conditions on their bodies which must be fulfilled by them. Since knowledge of this mysterious mechanism is still very slight, still shrouded in mystery, those who have an active Kundalini have tended to be hysteric, neurotic, unstable, or even insane."

posted July 30, 2008 12:01 AM         

quote:

---

You have already defined enlightenment for yourself,
despite the fact that you have no direct experience of it,
and you dismiss anything that does not correspond
to your preconceived conclusion as to what enlightenment is.

---

No, I can't give you a definitive description of enlightenment, stephen. Like everyone else here, I have a vague idea, but it's at best hazy around the edges, difficult to pin down and based largely on second hand accounts and, as you pointed out, personal desire. I can only share my impressions based on those few encounters I mentioned above. I can't say that qualifies as "direct experience".
In the meantime, I think I would like to add clarity to our proposed list. Or are the enlightened confused, stephen?

Stuffed shirts. I've had the pleasure of watching a few up close. I've observed the habit of sweeping any and all under the rug. I do not equate a lumpy rug with enlightenment. My idea of Balance goes far beyond temperment, far beyond the appearance of calm.
(Although, it was a pleasant surprise to see you use the old labels)

I'll let the rest of it lie. I see no need.
But how we misunderstand each other!
The space between ...

And blest are those
Whose blood and judgment are so well commingled,
That they are not a pipe for fortune's finger
To sound what stop she please. Give me that man
That is not passion's slave, and I will wear him
In my heart's core, ay, in my heart of heart,
As I do thee.

posted July 30, 2008 04:20 AM         

quote:

---

"People who have psychic or spiritual experiences often have an activated Kundalini, and this imposes certain conditions on their bodies which must be fulfilled by them. Since knowledge of this mysterious mechanism is still very slight, still shrouded in mystery, those who have an active Kundalini have tended to be hysteric, neurotic, unstable, or even insane."

---

Interesting, berrypicker.

posted July 30, 2008 04:38 AM         

And I would not dispute it, but only counter-balance it with equal greatness.

O man, take care!
What does the deep midnight declare?
"I was asleep—
From a deep dream I woke and swear:
The world is deep,
Deeper than day had been aware.
Deep is its woe;
Joy—deeper yet than agony:
Woe implores: Go!
But all joy wants eternity—
Wants deep, wants deep eternity!"

To be impassioned is far from being passion's slave,
and to ride the crest of an eternal wave is not to be carried away.

One man finds peace in standing waters, far from the great vicissitudes,
and another lets his soul explore the wild heights and depths,
and neither is more worthy or inspiring of my awe and admiration.

But I speak for the man of passion, who twists and writhes and overcomes,
for he is the image of my present moment, and the one who requires my unfeigned devotion.