posted April 09, 2013 10:45 AM            

quote:

---

When I despair,
I remember that all through history
the way of truth and love have always won.
There have been tyrants and murderers,
and for a time, they can seem invincible,
but in the end, they always fall.
~ Gandhi

---

They always fall, yes, --
and someone is always there to take their place.

"Do good anyway." ~ Mother Teresa

Not because love and truth "win",
but because love is love and truth is truth,
and who wants to be on any other side, anyway?

I'd rather "lose".

Or, rethink "winning and losing" altogether.

If you don't play fair, you've lost; it's over.

To be on the side of goodness and truth is to win;
automatically; regardless of outcome;
not in the end, but in the now.

Jesus was crucified and,
according to our customary way of thinking,
he should be deemed a loser.

posted April 09, 2013 05:02 PM            

Thank you for speaking up. It sounds like you have entirely misunderstood my interpretation of Christianity. But, then, my views are highly unorthodox, and I must expect my religion to be misunderstood by those who haven't allowed me a chance to explain.

"If one of us won't let the other speak after hearing what their labels are...
often enough I think that entails a kind of violence." ~ Faith
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum17/HTML/002646.html

If we wish to know the truth about religion, and "God", we must study the mystics, -- not the masses, as is so frequently done. More than that, we must go the way they went.

The true mystics of all faiths have always asserted that "God" is simply a word, a name, for something which defies description, and which may only be hinted at through actions, images, and ideas. It was the opinion of many such mystics that this "something" is worthy of a great name, and that no greater name could be found than the name of "God". Likewise, many things in their experience are described as "sacred", "holy", or "divine", because no lesser words seemed fitting. This is, of course, a value judgment, and not open to dispute.

The word "God" may apply to the ultimate truth, but it may also apply to the images we have conceived (perhaps drawing upon archetypes already seeded within our own subconscious minds), in order to bring us closer to that truth. The former is the common root of all mystically inspired faiths, while the latter are individual outgrowths, variously expressed. In the first instance, we can say very little about "Him"; maybe nothing at all. In the second, we must reflect that our conceptions are flawed; that, by their very nature, they have the power to reveal, as well as to conceal, spiritual realities. If symbols or symbol-systems do not resonate with you, simply find another way which feels more comfortable for you.

As human beings, many of us find it helpful to make use of a human symbol for God. In attributing personal characteristics, we are speaking in a figurative way. Figurative is not necessarily the same as fictional, but neither is it matter-of-fact. In the Hindu tradition, they have a notion of "the chosen ideal". The devotee selects from a pantheon of gods or avatars the one to which he/she feels a special affinity. This "chosen ideal" serves as a stand-in, or surrogate, for The Ineffable. Many people find it helpful to focus their devotions on this symbol (or Word), while retaining an awareness of "God" as something utterly beyond conception, and certainly beyond description.

The greatest mystics have found, through the experience and practice of deep meditation, a level of consciousness so secure, so peaceful, and so profound, that they were able to experience a complete transcendence of the personality, the body, and all sense of separateness; with the input of the mind and senses hushed, they were able to sink, and to settle, into the very seat of their being; to actually experience their connectedness with everyone and everything. The love and fearlessness this inspires has made these individuals beacons of virtue. The best of them have become enduring symbols for something infinitely greater than themselves; historical guideposts, signifying the revelation of the purest truths and mysteries.

All notions and symbols for God serve their purpose only when sacrificed to something beyond themselves, and, ultimately, to something beyond all; "except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit."

posted April 13, 2013 03:56 AM            

That is more or less how I feel about "God".

I was very religious as a child. I may possibly have infused in my DNA a tendency to get very carried away by things. Over the years I have learned/ endeavored to reign myself in a lot because what I wanted more than anything was the truth- not fantasy (apart from right now- I realized I was happier when less skeptic and I'm trying to reunite myself with my intuitive/ spiritual side with crystals!). There you go, a bit of Gemini self contradiction!

One of the most influential moments of my life was a visit to the Mormon temple (when I was a member of the church) when I was 14 years old, having these expectations that I would feel nearer to God than anywhere else, and then feeling disillusioned because it didn't feel that way once I was there- I tried praying to get the feeling but it would not come. Then I had an accident- I fell and hurt my knee- and this made me feel even more disconnected than ever. After I got back home I prayed very hard for a sign, if the church was true, and did not get one. I prayed for many hours. I needed something because it didn't feel right any more and went against my logic (I had been questioning some things already but still wanted to hold on). I did not want to do the wrong thing. But when the answer I hoped for did not come, I left.
I guess it may have been easier for me in some ways than someone who had been raised in it all their lives (I had only been involved for a year), although my brothers were raised in it up until the time I was born and my parents split, so they had 7 and 9 years each of being brought up in it, and my eldest brother in particular used to chat to me about religion and spiritual matters, so this influenced me, plus my mum still believed even though not active anymore, and I prayed quite often as a young child.

Anyway, I'm a bit naughty for straying off the original topic.

-----------------

So, back to the OP...... would you say that "losing" is sometimes "winning"?

posted April 14, 2013 02:50 AM            

Wander in the mundane turmoil for a while,
and you will see what brooks seeing.

Religion is romanticism
writ large, discharged,
upon a world unengaged,
and staged.

Let it be more that it is,
unprecedented, uncaged,
loosed from the page.

Suddenly made,
and all set.

So you can enter
consumed by fire
and disclaim
all but the name.