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Author Topic:   Animal Self-Awareness?
Dervish
Knowflake

Posts: 334
From: California
Registered: Nov 2006

posted April 27, 2008 07:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
I got to wondering. For whatever weird reason, I dreamt about a stray cat I used to feed that died of antifreeze poisoning a few years ago, and wondered why he came to me in the first place. We weren't particularly close. And it's my understanding that when cats get sick, they hide themselves, as if they were evading a predator hunting them. He was an unneutered tom which are supposed to be even wilder than other cats (though some disagree with that belief). Yet he walked into my home (which he'd never been in before) as if he lived here (and I could tell something was wrong with him right away because of his lack of coordination). He'd never let me really touch him before that day, and I wonder how I was perceived.

And as I wondered, I saw a moth walking around in pointless circles on the wall, and got to thinking about them, too. What did bugs and spiders perceive? There seem to be differences. Flies don't seem to be aware that other beings are alive, not even spiders that jump at them or me trying to swat them (they dodge, yes, but they don't hide or go somewhere else). 'Course, a wasp WILL respond to the actions of a spider or someone with a fly swatter. And most spiders seem aware that other entities with their own will exist, save daddy longlegs, who seem more like flies in that regard (granted, they startle easily). And I think I read something about daddy longlegs willing to lose a leg to someone that catches it and keeps on running. So maybe it doesn't hurt them?

For that matter, how much pain are spiders and bugs able to feel? Their world is full of pain and horror. More than one bug can be bitten or stung into paralysis, held to be fed off of and/or serve as an incubator of sorts. Are they aware of it? Or are their brains not advanced enough to process pain and horror the way mammals can?

And what about bugs and spiders that kill the males that fertilize them? Do they do it because they suddenly get angry, similar to how cats will go along with it and then act hostile? Or is it just part of the experience of lust, a "love bite" that happens to decapitate (or whatever) the male, with no ill will toward the male? Or is it just the ultimate narcissism, where the sated female is like, "Oh, that was fun, but now I'm hungry, and lucky me, there's still this head right in reach!"? Or do you think there's no awareness of what they do at all, that they're merely chemical reactions encased in primitive biological forms with no self-awareness to speak of?

And that got me to thinking of the shark that killed a swimmer yesterday. It's believed (and good reasons were given for it, IMO) that a great white had been hunting a seal or sea lion that had escaped to land. Then it attacked a swimmer in a wet suit, probably believing he was the prey. The shark let go and left, though the man died of his wound. Assuming the guess is correct, what was the shark thinking? "YUCK! That tastes like medicine!" Or, expecting seal, was so spooked by the unexpected taste and texture that he quickly let go and fled back to the depths?

And one guy told me that working at a store that sold live lobsters, one of the employees liked to take a lobster stick of some kind and bump the lobsters against each other in "trying to get them to fight." Whenever that employee walked by, ALL the lobsters would lift up their claws at him, but they ignored all the other people, which made him realize that they recognized him--and also that it was that person with the stick that was giving them a hard time, not each other. That is, they were self-aware and aware that there were other self-aware entities that shared the world with them and that they weren't all the same.

And then there was a chicken I was around when I was 14 that the other chickens picked on. She was so high strung, that I'd catch her myself and then put her on my arm the way someone would a hunting falcon. Perched on my arm, she would continue to hiss at me (something no other chicken did, and when it hissed next to another chicken, they would peck at her), not jumping off, which just struck me as funny at the time. Any other chicken would jump off instantly.

One thing I look back on and cringe is the one time I went into the henhouse at night to where that hen normally was and grabbed. The feel and sound was all wrong, so I quickly backed away and turned on the light to see that I'd grabbed the rooster! I don't know why he didn't attack me. Maybe because I was a food goddess that often took scraps out to them. Yet when I first moved in with Granny there, I'd chased him off chickens he was having sex with because I thought he was trying to kill them, until Granny wised me up on that. I imagine that had to annoy him. Plus, me and Zack would sometimes make chickenhawk noises just to hear the chickens get upset. The rooster especially got agitated, glaring at us. But he never attacked me. But one day, supposedly for no reason, he attacked Zack just for walking by. This makes me wonder why. Was it because Zack was male, and thus the rooster was more inclined to see Zack as a threat/rival? Or that the rooster recognized me as throwing food out and so was more inclined to put up with me as a result? Or maybe the rooster was just in a really bad mood right then and Zack had the bad luck to walk by him?

And I've seen crows with a wide range of personality and moods, too. One that sticks with me was a crow that tweaked the tail of a squirrel and then while the squirrel chattered angrily, the crow made noise and acted in a way that made me thinking of laughing. And then there's this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0xRrtS-_Wk

That's just amazing to me. Especially where the kitten jumps the crow and the crow realizes it's just play. I doubt humans would be so inclined to be so trusting around a half-grown tiger. Plus, an apparent awareness that a kitten wouldn't survive being on a street.


Anyway, I was just curious. Anyone have any idea how any animal at all perceives itself and the world?

To be clear, I'm not asking about specific senses (though I'm sure that's peripherally important), but about actual self-awareness of "I exist" and ability to recognize that there are other self-aware entities in the world with them. Though I am curious about how cats can love the sound of running water, dogs can love smells of things we probably don't even have names for, and yet neither seem able to appreciate the night sky.

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bunnies
Knowflake

Posts: 137
From: U.K
Registered: Mar 2007

posted April 27, 2008 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bunnies     Edit/Delete Message
I posted this story a few months back but it bears repeating.
I had a pet rabbit for 8 years (Stuart) that I had got from a sanctuary. He was a sweetie.
About a year later I got him a companion from the same place who was a miserable old thing but he adored her.

One day I heard this noise at the back door and when I opened it, Stuart ran in and started jumping round my feet obviously very agitated.
I went outside and he followed me running round my feet in circles whereupon I found the other rabbit lying under a bush obviously dying.
He was trying to get my attention and obviously wanted me to do something but sadly it was too late.

So you ask are animals aware?
Why would he do that? It served no survival purpose for him.
How did he know to alert me?
Somewhere along the way he had tried to get help for her and thought I could do something.
His behavior that day made me change the way I viewed animals perception of the world.
He also appeared to go into a period of ....call it what you like..mourning after she died.

Now I hate it even more when I see rabbits sold to children in pet shops and know that 9 times out of ten, when the novelty has worn off that the poor thing will be trapped and neglected in a hutch at the bottom of the garden.
And the thing about goldfish having a 3 second memory is a load of bull**** aswell.

Oh don't get me started....I have a story about that too!!!

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