posted February 02, 2005 12:46 AM         

Say what?

posted February 02, 2005 12:49 AM         

Jesus was a rose in bloom, surrounded by close-minded buds. But his message was essentially this, that, sooner or later, we all get a chance to bloom. "A rose is a rose is a rose."

Jesus did not consider himself an exception, except for the fact of his having become
singularly enlightened to this universal truth.

When confronted about his claim to be the "Son of God", he does not reply
by ennumerating the points of his significant individuality. Rather,
he asks, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said ye are gods'?" (John
10:34).

posted February 02, 2005 01:46 AM         

No, I was reffering to Heart--Shaped Cross's pepsi commercial. Yes, I can understand that his father might be anti-semetic, but I didn't get that vibe, more of how cruel people were than one tribe.

posted February 02, 2005 11:59 PM         

Very interesting.

quote:

---

6 I declare: "Gods though you be, offspring of the Most High all of you,
7 Yet like any mortal you shall die; like any prince you shall fall."

---

Also, what you described flower blooming according to my mind, reminded me of John being the last best grain to be produced by earth.

Jesus's birth is still a mystery to me. Was he human and then Father overshadowed him or was he conceived of the holy spirit. One thing that I am convinced of is that, when he went about curing and doing works, he was overshadowed by the Father. Hence he said "Father is in me and me in the Father"

posted February 09, 2005 04:48 PM         

I saw the movie and closed my eyes when the scenes were to violent.

I believe in him definitely. Even other religions talk about him and these writings are from wayyyyyyyyyyyy back.

So it's obvious he did exist and healed people. But I wish I was sure about the rest of the story.

posted February 10, 2005 09:04 PM         

IAT, I believe Linda said that Jesus had the holy ghost for the last three years of his life, and for a breif time when he was twelve and talking to the Rabis. Otherwise, we are all children of God, and are Gods. The fact he said we die, I think, is because we are not kings yet - until we know this as fact, but are mortal until then. We are princes and princesses

posted February 11, 2005 12:47 AM         

Jesus's death was the fruit of the grave, the first fruit. We are a step away from being reconciled to the Father according to his plans.
Goddess, is on her way or already is within our heart, comforting us. Teaching us about soul and love and its mysteries. I see Men developing woman's side these days. And woman developing men's traits. Did you notice the jump of woman workers in the labor force in the past 50 years? Did you also notice equal prize money for men and womans finals during grand slam.

I believe a great Woman like Jesus is due on earth to teach us wisdom, unless Jesus meant it to be symbolic and her appearance meant it to be within our inner rooms (heart).

posted February 12, 2005 12:08 AM         

Holy Ghost!

The idea of a "Holy Ghost" gave me the creeps. After all, ghosts are intent on scaring the daylights out of people.

Excerpted from The Why Files: Are There Really Ghosts? Buy it at amazon.com.

"Praise Father, Son and Holy Ghost . . . "

Many churches sing the "Doxology" as a part of their service. As a child, I could understand the idea that God was like a father in his love and care for us all. And it made sense that if God was a father, he'd have to have at least one child. But the idea of a "Holy Ghost" gave me the creeps. After all, ghosts are intent on scaring the daylights out of people.

When I was older, I attended a tent crusade where it became clear that the Holy Ghost's job--and the preacher's--was to scare the devil right out of a person. And so, people were being "filled" with the Spirit and "evil spirits" were being cast out.

We'll explore what the Bible has to say about the character and roles of one of the most misunderstood aspects of God.

Who is the Holy Spirit?

In the second verse of Genesis we find "the Spirit of God" hovering over the yet to be formed earth (Genesis 1:2). Throughout the Old Testament, we find references to God's prophets or messengers being inspired and empowered by his Spirit. But it's not until the New Testament that the Spirit of God is called by name as "The Holy Spirit" (Luke 1:35).

The Holy Spirit fills Jesus Christ at his baptism, empowers and emboldens the early disciples--who were previously hiding behind locked doors--and is promised to fill each future believer.

But here is where it gets confusing! While the Bible states there is one, and only one, God, he appears to be three distinct beings and thus the term Trinity or "three-in-one." Jesus tells his disciples to baptize believers "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit . . . " (Matthew 28:19).

Some theologians have tried to explain this by saying that God revealed himself in three separate forms: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ) and God the Holy Spirit. However, Scripture records all three present at Jesus' baptism: "When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: 'You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased'" (Luke 3:21-22).

Others have attempted to explain the three-in-one as being like electricity which is one force but which can be expressed as heat, light and motion.

Since we're mere mortals, God is beyond our ability to explain and every illustration will eventually break down. But one concept that makes sense to me is the "trinity" of mind, body and soul.

Jesus makes reference many times to being obedient to the Father's plan. " . . . I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me" (John 14:31). Perhaps we can think of God the Father as the "brains" of the Trinity. Jesus tells His disciples repeatedly that "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father."

His early disciples write about Jesus Christ being God in flesh. Colossians 1:16-17 states that as God's "body," Jesus was the agent of creation: "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."

A brain and a body, however, is incomplete without a spirit--that unique essence that makes all of us--with similar brains and bodies-- very, very different. It is our spirit that expresses who we are.

In the same way, the Holy Spirit expresses the very essence of God's personality. Galatians 5:22-23 describes this character as "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control."

Now obviously brains, bodies and personalities cannot exist separately, but they do have separate functions. Even this illustration is not sufficient to describe the supernatural complexity of God.

The idea of the Holy Spirit being God's personality or spirit, however, seems to describe how believers can be filled with the very nature of God himself.

What does the Holy Spirit do?

In Jesus Christ's last major message to his disciples, he promises that the Holy Spirit will take his place on earth.

(1) The Holy Spirit is God's presence on earth. Jesus tells his disciples, "I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you" (John 16:7).

(2) The Holy Spirit will convince us of our need for God. "When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment" (John 16:8).

(3) The Holy Spirit will live within us. "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever . . . . He lives with you and will be in you." (John 14:16, 17).

(4) The Holy Spirit will teach us God's truth. "'But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you'" (John 14:26).

The early disciples give us other insights into the work of the Holy Spirit.

(5) The Holy Spirit assures believers that they have been made children of God. "The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children" (Romans 8:16).

(6) The Holy Spirit prays on behalf of believers. "In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will" (Romans 8:26-27).

(7) The Holy Spirit transforms obedient believers into Christ-like people."You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you" (Romans 8:9-11).

I've lost my fear of a ghostly Holy Spirit and have found his presence to be both a comfort and a challenge to be all that God has created us to be.

posted February 12, 2005 12:43 AM         

Sorry for the delay, i just now noticed your response.

I think the mystery you acknowledge is not meant to be understood in an either/or capacity. I think it is a mystery, and is intended to convey just that.

I know the Rosicrucians believe that Joseph and Mary had sex to conceive Jesus, but, that it was "in the spirit", not carnal, and, therefor, the Gospel writers are justified in saying that it was the Holy Spirit.

All these things are secondary. You may have noticed that the facts are in almost constant contradiction between the four gospels. This is intentional (although, most people dont even notice). The point being that Truth is essential, and facts are secondary. I often see multiple ways to interpret a specific passage or verse, and, to my mind, all of them may be equally valid. It is only the facts, which are in contradiction, and never the truth.

Take the example above, for instance.
Many people would be up in arms at the suggestion that Mary and Joseph had sex, however sacremental the act. And, yet, to others, this way of looking at it reveals the true meaning of the "immaculate conception".

Speaking as a Scorpio, I have always felt that the problem was in our inability to conceive of the sacred and the profane, not as outer realities, but, as shifting projections of our own inner states.
Yada-yada-yada.

posted February 12, 2005 12:56 AM         

So they killed Jesus, big woop!
Like him, they were chosen to carry that cross.
It could have been anybody.
Instead, it was the Jews.

posted February 13, 2005 06:52 PM         

The various possibilities for Jesus's birth in my mind is therefore following:

1. Mary had X chromosomes. She somehow produced the Y chromosome with Gods help(or may be when she was created, she had both

and thats why Jesus was produced a male.

2. Or if she only had X chromosomes, baby Jesus is a baby girl with only X chromosomes. (But then the scriptures say, Jesus went to the temple after 8 days to be circumcised.)

3. Or a male seed was produced by God which impregnated the ovary cell.

4. Or mysteriously the baby was born without Mary going thru labor.

5. Or Gabriel who bring the good news to Mary, impregnates her with his seed (which would mean that Jesus is only a prophet).

6. Or Christ the the son, the third God head of the trinity, becomes the seed and plants himself in Mary's womb.

posted February 14, 2005 01:53 AM         

The anointed one.

posted February 14, 2005 01:14 PM         

I dont especially want to enter into this discussion, such as it is. I will say only that the four Gospels are not, and were never intended to be, historical accounts. This much ought to be clear from how widely they differ in presenting "the facts".

((For one thing, the "virgin birth" isnt even referred to in all of them - and in one of them (I forget which), - Mark, I think, - Mary even doubts her son's sanity and tries to prevent him from preaching!; something you would not expect from a woman who knowingly birthed the messiah. Elsewhere, Jesus' lineage is even traced to King David, thru Joseph!))

In any case, history, if it even exists in the Gospels, is not the primary focus, and is sacrificed repeatedly to less worldy concerns. This is just as it should be, for, whether Christ is known in the flesh is immaterial. In the end, all that matters is whether or not we have known him in the spirit. In Truth. Religion should never be allowed to degenerate into mere history. It is the study, not of facts, but, of truths. And, ultimately, of Truth.

"The multitude, ever prone to superstition, and caring more for the shreds of antiquity than for eternal truths, pays homage to the Books of the Bible, rather than to the Word of God."

- Spinoza

This is why I think it best to interpret the Resurrection, for instance, as allegorical. Jesus' teaching lives on in the hearts of his followers, and, in a very real sense, he is more alive today than he was on the day he died, in *mumble-mumble* A.D.

posted February 14, 2005 02:28 PM         

BTW I liked your thought on resurrection

To All, I want to apologize to any Muslim reader, about my statement about turning head towards Mecca. Each has its own faith, and I need to respect it. I always do that, but I also believe in voicing whats going on inside of me. I do not keep things inside of me. I do tend to say it aloud.

posted February 17, 2005 10:16 PM         

Heart-shaped cross, I never evern thought of half the stuff you mentioned. I thought it was supposed to be fact, and that all gospels supported each other. Well, it does make sense that religions aren't historical. Also brings more light to the "no lies" message contained within religion - their are no lies because there are no facts. Hmmm. Other interesting connections that I never really delved into until now is Isis and Horus - Mary/Jesus. Their were many ancient statues that looked sooo similar, and makes you wonder about the connections between Ancient Egypt and Christianity. Then there's the divince conception between Isis and Osiris - who was God of the underworld (Joseph?) etc. Then there's the Holy trinity Father, Son, Holy Ghost - Learning, Knowing, Experiencing, etc. I just read this morning that the Dalai Lama compared the trinity to "the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha", but said it didn't matter. I understand this a lot more now - it's the faith, not the facts. Many things come in threes, and many in two.

posted February 18, 2005 11:43 AM         

quote:

---

it's the faith, not the facts

---

Exactly my point too. However I believe facts comes with flavor, always reinventing itself

Faith can move mountains
Ordinary water drank with faith, is equal to drinking water from Bethsaida
Offering flowers to the feet of your wife with faith is equal to offering flower to the Goddess

Faith can do anything. Faith can make you walk on water

Well hope someone makes that into a poem.

LOVE

posted February 20, 2005 01:15 AM         

In one of them, the Last Supper takes place on the night of the Passover, and Jesus is not crufified until the following day,... in another one, Jesus is being crucified just as they are slaughtering the lambs for the Passover dinner. Both cases support profound mystical truths, while the more worldly facts are left to confuse us and make us wonder, "If the bible is not flawed, is it perhaps the way in which I am reading it that is flawed?"

"Well, it does make sense that religions aren't historical. Also brings more light to the "no lies" message contained within religion - their are no lies because there are no facts. Hmmm."

Exactly.

"Other interesting connections that I never really delved into until now is Isis and Horus - Mary/Jesus. Their were many ancient statues that looked sooo similar, and makes you wonder about the connections between Ancient Egypt and Christianity. Then there's the divince conception between Isis and Osiris - who was God of the underworld (Joseph?) etc."

Yeah, I never thought of that. If Joseph had sex with Mary, he would be the dark secret. All the myths (and religions) are essentially the same, all the religions evolving from, along side, with, and out of each other.

"Then there's the Holy trinity Father, Son, Holy Ghost - Learning, Knowing, Experiencing, etc."

You know, I have never heard it put like that, but that is quite striking. I remember reading that the Father signifies Mysticism (Revelation, "Learning"?), the Son signifies Gnosticism (Recognition, "Knowing"?), and the Spirit is Magick (Action, "Experiencing"). There is a fourth stage, being the Hermetic Philosophy, which is like the Book (Bible, Koran, Zohar, Veda, Kybalion, etc.), and it is the actual manifested unity of religious experience.

"I just read this morning that the Dalai Lama compared the trinity to "the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha", but said it didn't matter. I understand this a lot more now - it's the faith, not the facts. Many things come in threes, and many in two."

Yes, I read in the same volume mentioned above (Meditations on the Tarot: A Journey Into Christian Hermeticism) that the concept of Dualism was incomplete, because it places BEING at the center of everything, whereas the Trinity contains a Lover (God the Father, the Creator of Heaven and Earth), a Beloved (God the Son, the Light of the World), and a unifying third principle, LOVE Itself (The Holy Spirit of God, the Breath of Life), which supports even the ultimate ground of Being. It is the reason for being.
Jesus speaks of "the gift of tears", and this is to distinguish the disciple who, out of compassion for others, descends from above, to share in the burden of suffering, from the so-called enlightened man, who is as if dead inside, being cut off from either laughter or tears. I do not say that this is my opinion, only that it is something I have read, and I think it worthy of consideration.

"Mankind, more than is realised, is an expression of the part of the earth upon which he subsists. A rose of the West should not aspire to bloom like a lotus of the East."
- Gareth Knight
(The Rose Cross And The Goddess)

posted March 05, 2005 12:33 AM         

Heres my thought process:

The heaven and earth are not much different.
We notice on this earth some parents starve so that their children would survive. Why? Because its out of love.

We notice that when a kid asks for a special gift, the father would do everything within his means to get that present for his son. Is that not out of love?

We see lovers commit suicide when their parents are against the marriage.
Why would the lovers die? Isn't it out of love for each other? Although I won't recommend suicide.

Won't a friend die for his best friend? During wars we do see buddies dying out of love for each other?

Why then can't the master die for the disciples sake. Jesus being a master, and the disciples are the 12 and other people present.

A fake master would not die for his disciples. A fake buddy would not take the blame of cause of the problem when an event occurs. I remember being caught by a cop drinking beer with few fake friends. Everyone denied the cans belonged to them.

The father-mother God is formless. His children is everywhere including us earthlings.

Jesus is son of God. I am son of God. You are a son of God. Who isn't? Well there are two types of sons of God. One being those who have faith and do His will. The other is a son only by birth and lives a life.

Jesus being a master, takes us our affliction and pains, if we listen to him. This does not mean, that my karmic debts have been taken care of. It means I have been given an opportunity to repay back by doing good deeds. By correcting the wrong I did. If I had turned a blind eye to a man on the street. I will have to go back and feed him.

This also means that if I fail to do what I promised, Jesus would suffer again. Ofcourse we do not want that. Do we?

When we do not hate others, nor have ill feelings even in our thoughts, etc thats when our kramic debt equals 0.

The negative thoughts would backfire on us. If we abuse someone, someone would abuse us. Tooth for a tooth and eye for an eye speaks volumes about the karmic system.

Now why is it like that that is we regaining our grace thru masters. Its because God has chosen it that way. This is something I do not completely understand. I am thinking that just as we pass by and see a blind and have pity on them and feed them. Masters such as Jesus passes by and sees earthlings and out of compassion stops by and wishes to die here.

I certainly believe that each one has a potential to be a true Son of God not just by birth but by faith. Each can be a master as Jesus was.

In the gospels Jesus has never said he is God. Please point out to me my folly. I would appreciate it much.

When I take the eucharist(host) this easter for the first time. I am asking Jesus to take my afflictions. Release me from the bondage and to give me another chance. Kindda like, to increase my bank account so that I may pay my debtors

Jesus is always ready to welcome you. He had already paid that price when he died on the cross. I would be reliving the last supper and Jesus has promised to be in the bread and wine everytime we eat it and drink of it in faith.

When I read or heard of this hundreds of times in the last 10 years, it never made sense. But at this time of my journey, the same words speaks so many things to me in a different way.

So I call on myself and everyone who are in affliction to hear the voice of the sheperd. Your sin is not forgiven or your karmic debt reduced till you listen to the voice. That is important.

PEACE TO ALL...DO BE A CRITIQUE AND HELP ME. I WANT TO TAKE THE EUCHARIST IN FULL KNOWLEDGE THIS EASTER.

posted March 06, 2005 09:14 PM         

Thanks for the feedback. How can one ever explain bleeding host.

Please take a look at : http://members.aol.com/bjw1106/euchmir.htm

I am so convinced about Jesus present in the host a mysterious way. Right from being born in Bethlehem (house of bread) to being in the bread itself.

Peace.

posted March 07, 2005 11:02 AM         

I read the link you supplied, though I didn't quite understand it's meaning.

I've never heard of bleeding hosts before and I'm reluctant to say either way what could cause it. Perhaps the power is Divine...a sign from Ascended Masters or other Blessed Beings of Light...or perhaps not.

I wouldn't want to say conclusively without witnessing myself...at least then I could 'feel' with my own inner-I AM Presence the vibrations emanating within and around.

posted March 28, 2005 05:49 PM         

the question was did jesus die for our sins? in a sense, i believe jesus was an example used to show - you can do/be this or do/be that - i think his situation physically demonstrated the choice/free will we actually have. i believe he was a reminder of such a thing.