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Author Topic:   Two Creation Storys Makes Sense.
Petron
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posted August 20, 2005 10:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Apocalypse of 2 Enoch

Chapter 23

1And he was telling me all the works of heaven, earth and sea, and all the elements, their passages and goings, and the thunderings of the thunders, the sun and moon, the goings and changes of the stars, the seasons, years, days, and hours, the risings of the wind, the numbers of the angels, and the formation of their songs, and all human things, the tongue of every human song and life, the commandments, instructions, and sweet-voiced singings, and all things that it is fitting to learn.

2And Pravuil told me: All the things that I have told you, we have written. Sit and write all the souls of mankind, however many of them are born, and the places prepared for them to eternity; for all souls are prepared to eternity, before the formation of the world.

3And all double thirty days and thirty nights, and I wrote out all things exactly, and wrote three hundred and sixty-six books.

Chapter 24

1And the Lord summoned me, and said to me: Enoch, sit down on my left with Gabriel.

2And I bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord spoke to me: Enoch, beloved, all that you see, all things that are standing finished I tell to you even before the very beginning, all that I created from non-being, and visible things from invisible.

3Hear, Enoch, and take in these my words, for not to My angels have I told my secret, and I have not told them their rise, nor my endless realm, nor have they understood my creating, which I tell you to-day.

4For before all things were visible, I alone used to go about in the invisible things, like the sun from east to west, and from west to east.

5But even the sun has peace in itself, while I found no peace, because I was creating all things, and I conceived the thought of placing foundations, and of creating visible creation.

Chapter 25

1 I commanded in the very lowest parts, that visible things should come down from invisible, and Adoil (7) came down very great, and I beheld him, and lo! He had a belly of great light.

2And I said to him: Become undone, Adoil, and let the visible come out of you.

3And he came undone, and a great light came out. And I was in the midst of the great light, and as there is born light from light, there came forth a great age, and showed all creation, which I had thought to create.

4And I saw that it was good.

5And I placed for myself a throne, and took my seat on it, and said to the light: Go thence up higher and fix yourself high above the throne, and be a foundation to the highest things.

6And above the light there is nothing else, and then I bent up and looked up from my throne.

Chapter 26

1And I summoned the very lowest a second time, and said: Let Archas (8) come forth hard, and he came forth hard from the invisible.

2And Archas came forth, hard, heavy, and very red.

3And I said: Be opened, Archas, and let there be born from you, and he came undone, an age came forth, very great and very dark, bearing the creation of all lower things, and I saw that it was good and said to him:

4Go thence down below, and make yourself firm, and be a foundation for the lower things, and it happened and he went down and fixed himself, and became the foundation for the lower things, and below the darkness there is nothing else.

Chapter 27

1And I commanded that there should be taken from light and darkness, and I said: Be thick, and it became thus, and I spread it out with the light, and it became water, and I spread it out over the darkness, below the light, and then I made firm the waters, that is to say the bottomless, and I made foundation of light around the water, and created seven circles from inside, and imaged the water like crystal wet and dry, that is to say like glass, and the circumcession of the waters and the other elements, and I showed each one of them its road, and the seven stars each one of them in its heaven, that they go thus, and I saw that it was good.

2And I separated between light and between darkness, that is to say in the midst of the water hither and thither, and I said to the light, that it should be the day, and to the darkness, that it should be the night, and there was evening and there was morning the first day.

Chapter 28

1And then I made firm the heavenly circle, and made that the lower water which is under heaven collect itself together, into one whole, and that the chaos become dry, and it became so.

2Out of the waves I created rock hard and big, and from the rock I piled up the dry, and the dry I called earth, and the midst of the earth I called abyss, that is to say the bottomless, I collected the sea in one place and bound it together with a yoke.

3And I said to the sea: Behold I give you your eternal limits, and you shalt not break loose from your component parts.

4Thus I made fast the firmament. This day I called me the first-created [Sunday].
http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Equentinj/Christianity/2Enoch.html

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TINK
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posted August 21, 2005 06:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dunno, Sir Petron. Lately I don't feel much like sharing or persauding. I can't see the point of it. A year ago I would have been knee deep in Hedge's Dragon thread - it's one of my top ten favorite subjects - but not anymore. Thanks for asking though.

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Petron
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posted August 21, 2005 08:35 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*edits out reference to dafs name and tinks raid on the poetry thread *

ok i'll put this here so i dont have to dig thru the garbage to find it again....

quote:
I do think philosophy can "hinder the way to Heaven". Philosophy exists largely in the realm of the theoretical and the way to Heaven is made of sterner stuff, no? Of course, I'm not referring to men like Plato. They knew of what they spoke. But even in Paul's time the Greek Schools of Philosophy had disbanded and were in ruins. And that state of affairs certainly hasn't gotton any better.
He who tastes, knows.

As for the goodies the God of Science has bestowed upon us, I'd hate to think of them in the hands of those even less ready for them then we are. You think Korea w/ the bomb is a scary proposition? Consider Phillip II of Spain with his finger on the button.

The purpose of the Medieval Age (aka the Dark Ages - just in case you weren't already scared) wasn't to build a better bomb or create a cloned sheep. Other issues were at hand and I believe that an honest, unbiased look at the time will reveal them.--TINK



ok i'll give you a C-

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TINK
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posted August 21, 2005 09:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was just thinking about that. How did you know? Did I ever apologize for that little raid of mine? (I go on them now and again) If not, I do now. Very bad manners on my part. I plead pain.

Anyway .... Thanks, Sir Petron. It has been a bumpy ride. And I'm not sure I've arrived in much different a place then the one where I began. As always, I have little to no faith in the road, but absolute faith in the destination.

"And whether I come to my own today or in ten thousand or ten million years, I can cheerfully take it now, or with equal cheerfulness I can wait..."
W.W.

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Petron
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posted August 21, 2005 09:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yes you did apologise but none was nescessary....i got the biggest kick out of that ...!!

really i should have been the one to apologize for disturbing you.......and to *edits out reference to dafs name* ... .....please pardon me.....

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TINK
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posted August 21, 2005 09:54 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are you saying my wrath amuses you?! WTF!

petron, if you were here you would have had a dish thrown at you just now.

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Petron
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posted August 21, 2005 10:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yikes!!!...only when its not aimed at me!!! .....**flees thread**

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TINK
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posted August 22, 2005 06:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
chicken

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Petron
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posted August 22, 2005 07:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
no i'm not!!, b-bok!!

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juniperb
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From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted August 22, 2005 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Greetings Petron, thank you for posting The Secrets of Enoch (The Forgotton Books of Eden`s title ).

Is there something in particular that interests you in the verses?

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If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot

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Petron
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posted August 24, 2005 06:28 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well i posted the section from enoch2 that seemed to refer to the creation of the visible from the invisible, as per your first post in the thread.....

its all interesting , but as a geometer i found these last lines most delightful, as they describe very well the idea of a trancendental limit, like the boundary of a circle......


quote:
1And then I made firm the heavenly circle,

2 I collected the sea in one place and bound it together with a yoke.

3And I said to the sea: Behold I give you your eternal limits, and you shalt not break loose from your component parts.


maybe i just have dragons on the brain....but that reminded me of the Oroborus (and omphalos) again..


The seen from the unseen, a geometric proof


an array that can contain all rational numbers, within a triangle

drawing lines thru each equivalent fraction...(1/2 thru 2/4ths etc., 2/3ds thru 4/6ths..etc, 2/2, 3/3)

these rays do not converge on the whole number 1, but rather point up and converge upon their source....the center of zero....
Amun....
the hidden one....
the hidden sun....


*******

Keter or "Crown". is the first manifestation of the En Sof and sometimes referred to as identical with it. It is described both as the Void or nothingness from which all the other Sefirot emerge, and as the Divine Will, the original impetus of Creation [Gershom Scholem, Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism, p.217].
http://www.kheper.net/topics/Kabbalah/SeferZohar.htm

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juniperb
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From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted August 26, 2005 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ah Petron, it is indeed a delight that we can still marvel at ancient texts and the resounding Truths therein.

Blessings,

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If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot

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Emeraldopal
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posted November 07, 2011 10:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Emeraldopal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Creation..

And Memory Lane...

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All my love, with all my Heart
lotusheartone

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Randall
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posted November 08, 2011 10:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting.

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"Nurture great thoughts, for you will never go higher than you think."--DISRAELI

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Randall
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posted November 09, 2011 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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juniperb
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posted December 03, 2011 09:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I always sensed petron had a little more "something" to add to this thread.

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Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

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juniperb
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posted August 14, 2012 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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As Angels above guide Human beings, Human Beings have the opportunity to be Angels on Earth, who guide the Animal kingdom. - Da Vinci

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