posted June 25, 2012 12:44 PM            

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Originally posted by Randall:
Xiiro, I think this is the best Forum for you. About to add you.

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posted June 28, 2012 03:55 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:

1) Can you explain the difference between what the monastery taught and what the New Age books taught?

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This is a difficult question to answer, both because the lessons one learns in meditation tend revolve around changing one's personal perspective, and because the flow of insights while practicing 24/7 is non-stop. There is just so much one learns when they make their self available, you become a very raw version of your self. It took so long to respond because I wrote out a nice list of some things I learned, but after reading it I decided to delete it all. I think it is more of an experience which I would suggest seeking out on your own. There are way too many examples and ultimately, my meditative insights are only really useful for me. It may just be easiest to ask questions regarding specific topics.

If I can suggest one thing it would be, to not let any personal aversions stand in your way of investigating the practice before giving it a try. You may find the reasons behind shaving one's head are commendable in your eyes once you have the opportunity to ask a nun about it your self (for example). If you have the opportunity, check out whatever is available to you in your area. You should know pretty quickly if Buddhist meditation is your thing. Also, exhaust your resources when it comes to research. A lot of people have a lot of ideas surrounding Buddhism, but even the Buddha advised to only take with you whatever seems to work.

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Originally posted by Faith:
2) What are your thoughts on the Law of Attraction? Is it selfish?

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Well, the "Law of Attraction" I would say is selfish, because the whole point is based on the idea of energy returning to the self. I think any concept which perpetuates the idea "I am a constant entity which requires things", is a concept which should be looked at deeply. The description for the Law of Attraction is "Like attracts like (if you are positive, you will attract positive things)". This concept, when applied to ideas like Schrodinger's Cat and the many worlds theory, can "theoretically" work. In my experience, life is intended to be lived, not forced to do what we want it to. There is also the "sh*t happens factor" to consider, which is simply the reality that regardless of your desires, bad stuff can happen.

Let me set up a scenario -

Let's say you love your mother, and you do everything in your power to be a good person, generate lots of positive vibes. Will your mother become immortal as a result of your good deeds? You certainly are not doing anything negative enough to warrant attracting her death.

Let's say you stop expecting bills to come in the mail and they stop coming, should you apply for another credit card?

The idea is an uplifting one, but I think it eventually just feeds one's ego. It isolates a person from the reality that life is beautiful in part, because survival is an accomplishment. Without challenge, one can never grow.

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Originally posted by Faith:
3) What, in your opinion, is the relationship between consciousness and karma?

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Consciousness IMO is the illusion that "I exist and I am doing something". Karma is our actions (If you keep peeing in the well, your water will taste like pee).

posted June 28, 2012 03:56 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:

Nice to have you here as a mod, Xiiro!

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posted June 28, 2012 08:50 AM            

Thank you for your time!

^ That heart is NOT just me brown-nosing so you will let me mouth off to people on this forum. It's a gratitude heart.

I love your take on the Law of Attraction so much. It's the balance point I needed but didn't know I needed. I told you months ago that I hope you will write a book. I hope it fills the mental landscape with modulating memes to tame some of the more outrageous ones.

About becoming the raw form of oneself: that's fascinating. I wonder how different I am when raw. Is this like the subconscious me who designs my dreams?

About the monks shaving their heads. I have no argument with the people, just the practice, which seems inconsiderate. I cling to my prejudices because I think they will protect me from being sucked into a cult (again.) I have an 8H Pisces moon and fade into other people and surroundings too easily, if anything.

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Let's say you love your mother, and you do everything in your power to be a good person, generate lots of positive vibes. Will your mother become immortal as a result of your good deeds? You certainly are not doing anything negative enough to warrant attracting her death.

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I once read something by a noted spiritual...guy, for lack of better term. He said that you can kill people with your thoughts. He used voodoo killing as proof that this can happen. This spooked me because my mother died when I was 14, after I had come to peace with the idea that she would die. I felt like my release of her was a factor in her going, but it's hard to know if that release was selfish or not.*

Edit: I think psychic forces can be real factors on other people's health, that's my point. So I think we have to take responsibility for what we are emitting.

Not to be contentious, I am just exploring these ideas.

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Consciousness IMO is the illusion that "I exist and I am doing something".

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But those words came from "your" pool of illusion over there! So...objectivity seems illusory and elusive in that scheme.

Why bother talking?

posted June 28, 2012 02:26 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
About becoming the raw form of oneself: that's fascinating. I wonder how different I am when raw. Is this like the subconscious me who designs my dreams?

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This was one of the most amazing and one of the most frightening aspects of my experience. All my walls were stripped away, every thought and feeling was magnified by 1000. One minute I felt like my well constructed self, and the next I felt like a 9 year old kid; my Venus in Scorpio HATED it HAhah. I became undeniably jealous of the friendships between others. I felt excluded and at one point pushed everyone away, after deciding everyone else was intentionally abandoning me. I felt excluded and out of place. My favorite though was: Everyone who stayed at the monastery had a particular shining talent or role. One was a devoted philosopher spiritual seeker, one guy was transgender and gay, one guy had been studying alternative medicine, one woman was a musician, etc.. Well, I am always the person who people see as spiritual, I am the token gay guy in the room, I am the guy who studied alternative medicine, I am the musician. I was offered no "social role" to fall into, because there was always someone else filling that space. I felt like I was in social limbo, so I was forced to face what existed once all those "adornments" were removed. Outside the monastery I would have never let things get to that point, and I would have never realized the deep fears and resentments that lived in me. My Uranus in the 7th House would have just said "Oh well, new friends then" and a bridge would be burned, at the closest sign of neglect or discomfort.

Being Moon in Virgo 6th House, the first part of me to suffer was my physical health. There were many days when just waking up felt like an emotional Everest. I felt as though I could never get enough sleep, I just wanted to retreat and pass out. There were many days I did retreat and though some people didn't understand, It was a lesson for me in listening to the body. The most amazing part of the experience for me however, was the acceptance of the monastics. They never offered advise, they never offered to fix anything, they never asked what was wrong, they were simply present for me, randomly tossing an arm around me and squeezing, encouraging me to continue, and reinforcing the understanding that all things are impermanent, even big issues we can't seem to see an end to. After I left the monastery I contacted one of my fellow retreatants and apologized for some of my actions. He laughed and shared with me all of his weird struggles while living there. Becoming a raw version of one's self seems to be a common experience in all the retreatants I have spoken to since.

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Originally posted by Faith:
About the monks shaving their heads. I have no argument with the people, just the practice, which seems inconsiderate. I cling to my prejudices because I think they will protect me from being sucked into a cult (again.) I have an 8H Pisces moon and fade into other people and surroundings too easily, if anything.

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I can understand the fear. When I was 19 and fresh out of school, I started healing and reading for a yoga center. After a few years, I came to discover the center was actually a cult and the leader was prostituting the women to bring in revenue. It is one of the first things that crosses my mind whenever I investigate spiritual centers. I can definitely identify with the apprehension. In Buddhist monasticism, the practice of shaving one's head is a really beautiful one in my opinion. I understand that the issue is deeper than just the act of head shaving for you though. I still suggest asking a nun about it. You will hopefully get an awesome answer which destroys your aversion. That is an important part about monastic living, facing one's desires and aversions and learning to understand them deeply.

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Originally posted by Faith:
I once read something by a noted spiritual...guy, for lack of better term. He said that you can kill people with your thoughts. He used voodoo killing as proof that this can happen. This spooked me because my mother died when I was 14, after I had come to peace with the idea that she would die. I felt like my release of her was a factor in her going, but it's hard to know if that release was selfish or not.*

Edit: I think psychic forces can be real factors on other people's health, that's my point. So I think we have to take responsibility for what we are emitting.

Not to be contentious, I am just exploring these ideas.

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In ancient Hawaii, there were stories of people pi$$ing off a kahuna, going home, and wasting away to death. The theory behind it is partially a kahuna's making them believe they were cursed, and partially the person's fear that they had been cursed. As a psychic reader, one of the first things you hear in the industry is "don't read doom and gloom". It means regardless of what you see in the cards, don't predict negative things like a person's death. People have been known to manifest doom, passed on to them in readings. It takes a degree of intention to curse another person, but it takes a greater degree of susceptibility for a person to accept being cursed.

My question to you is not whether your intention some how effected your mother's passing. I wonder which of the two options is more selfish, holding on to a person who is suffering and ready to pass, or resolving whatever needs to be resolved inside in order to allow that person to move on? Death happens to us all, regardless of our desire for a person to live. Taking personal responsibility for someone's natural death is like taking responsibility for the sun being hot or for gravity making things fall.

Perhaps it would be helpful to look deeper into your guilt surrounding your mother's passing. Is it okay for someone to wish death on a suffering person? Should one wish continued life for a person when that means continued suffering? Capricorns are faced with very adult situations at very young ages and their reactions tend to also be very adult. That doesn't change the fact that they are still children and have a limited capacity for understanding the full gravity of these situations. I think the issue is less about the way you responded to your mom's suffering and more about taking care of the part of you which had to come to those conclusions at such a young age. Capricorn always does their best with what they are given, and I think your identification with her suffering resulted in the compassionate desire for her to just stop hurting.

As for your insight regarding psychic forces, I agree and I think that is one good way for describing how karma works. Regardless of what we manifest physically, even our thoughts generate waves.

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Originally posted by Faith:
But those words came from "your" pool of illusion over there! So...objectivity seems illusory and elusive in that scheme.

Why bother talking?

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Did those words come from "MY" pool, or did they come from "THE" pool? HEhe I think we bother talking, because regardless of the illusory quality of reality, this is the world we are born into...this is what is on the plate before us. Consciousness being an illusion is no more or less poignant than the solid concept of body being an illusion, or the idea that emotions (though constantly changing) are somehow a cohesive emotional entity with in the self, or the idea that thoughts (though changing constantly) are somehow a cohesive mental entity within the self. Just like thoughts and feelings, we are sometimes conscious and sometimes not. When we are not conscious, were does "I" and what "I is doing" go? Consciousness takes snap shots of experiences (the moments we are conscious) and weaves them into one cohesive idea... the movie of one's life, so to speak. Then we play out the character we are conscious of. Those snap shots are not the whole of our existence, but for now, the movie is what we may be watching with great intent.

I'm a believer in the idea that one should begin by mastering what is in front of them.

posted June 29, 2012 09:39 AM            

Well,...that was my favorite post ever, you just gave me chills and my eyes are smarting.

Hard for me to talk now.

Hmmm....

*clicking through the internet looking for pictures to express my thoughts*

Oh, okay! So here's you:

Taking it all so casually there.

Thanks so much for telling me about coming undone in the monastery. Now I will be sure to avoid places like that at all costs!!!

Half kidding...you know, regression really isn't my thing, and neither is pain of any kind. But I'm sure there's something to be gained from it. Can you tell me about that, what you gained from the experience? Besides relief to get the hell out of there?

Venus is Scorpio sounds very intense, judging from what you and others with the placement have said here.

At first I didn't understand where you were coming from being young and jealous, but I tried to imagine it and think I can empathize now. It's like me being 9 also, trying so hard to find a "place" in the world. Everything seemed to hinge on friendships, since my family was kind of in disarray.

I wonder if my walls would come down like that. I wonder if they are walls or just me, different now that I am older.

I wonder if a side-hug from a passing monk would be enough to help me face my demons.

What about hugs is so good? What's your philosophy on that, or is it just love, and kind of self-explanatory?

Thanks for your kind words about me, the serious Cap, facing life & death issues at a young age. I had trouble with my mother, so it wasn't only that I was concerned for her suffering, I was angry about certain things as well, which is where the guilt came in.

My mother was a turbulent Leo with a water void, whose fits of rage hit my Pisces moon like tsunamis. But I just presented the stoical Cap face.

I've never really understood all of that deeply, just numbed myself and carried on. I suppose I could heal by re-visiting that time and examining it with a greater light of consciousness.

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That is an important part about monastic living, facing one's desires and aversions and learning to understand them deeply.

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Gulp. Ok.

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It takes a degree of intention to curse another person, but it takes a greater degree of susceptibility for a person to accept being cursed.

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Consciousness takes snap shots of experiences (the moments we are conscious) and weaves them into one cohesive idea... the movie of one's life, so to speak. Then we play out the character we are conscious of. Those snap shots are not the whole of our existence, but for now, the movie is what we may be watching with great intent.

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I love that!

One more question, I've been wanting to ask you this...is there a place for astrology in the Buddhist belief system? How does astrology fit....is it more about how your ego or mask functions...or is it more essential?

Thank you.

posted June 29, 2012 04:29 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
regression really isn't my thing, and neither is pain of any kind. But I'm sure there's something to be gained from it. Can you tell me about that, what you gained from the experience? Besides relief to get the hell out of there?

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So true, Part of me was sad to go, but another part just wanted to get out and process all the new information. It is hard to articulate what I learned aside from using the phrase "It changed me completely". Anything I say will not convey the full gravity but I will attempt it.

Being stripped raw did not inflict pain on me, it opened my eyes to the pain I lived with every day, the struggles which I ignored because I believed I was helpless to do anything about them. I was always a jealous person, but having psychotically high standards for my self, I would judge my feelings of jealousy into submission. This was not dealing with my jealousy, it was repression. Being in an environment where I knew it was safe to be jealous was not oppressive, but liberating. Knowing that others would not look at me differently for having really BIG flaws (because they were busy working on their own flaws), allowed me to face those flaws with honesty and compassion.

Facing my issues with honesty and compassion allowed me to see their roots, to understand why I habitually retreated to certain attitudes in certain situations. Instead of judging my self for being a "horrible and jealous person", I was able to scoop myself up in an understanding embrace when jealousy arose. Instead of fighting this terrible unexplained force which rendered me powerless to rational thought, I understood I was reliving being a child who was set up to compete with his siblings. A kid who's siblings excluded him from their confidence because our parents showed favor to me. A child who's parents eventually ignored him completely because their spiritual path/boyfriend was not willing to share them. I left childhood, wondering what was so wrong with me, that others would want to abandon me. All I wanted was to be the best for others. As a Mars in Leo person, one of the worst feelings to experience is that of not mattering to the people you love.

So now when jealousy arises, I respond by sitting with my jealousy compassionately. Understanding where it comes from, but not acting on it, not getting caught up, stressed out, or involved in it.

The exhausting part for me was facing all the things I had ignored for 32 years. But once they have been faced, a great weight is released. You realize you are fighting all these wars which you have inherited throughout your life from friends, family, and foes. Nobody ever tells you that you can stop fighting any time you want.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Venus is Scorpio sounds very intense, judging from what you and others with the placement have said here.

At first I didn't understand where you were coming from being young and jealous, but I tried to imagine it and think I can empathize now. It's like me being 9 also, trying so hard to find a "place" in the world. Everything seemed to hinge on friendships, since my family was kind of in disarray.

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This resonates with me especially, I was raised with a mother, a father, a brother, and two sisters. The year I turned 9 my siblings all moved out and my parents divorced. My father labeled his self a failure and became ashamed to interact with me. My mother decided she was tired of raising kids and married a 19 year old kid who refused to let her show me any affection.

I was raised with no social skills (outside of a church setting), because my parents were raising me to be an evangelist. And I moved to a completely new school in a completely new area. It was hard finding friends and when I did, they became more like family than my blood relations. I never had a social niche or a clique to fall into.

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Originally posted by Faith:
I wonder if a side-hug from a passing monk would be enough to help me face my demons.

What about hugs is so good? What's your philosophy on that, or is it just love, and kind of self-explanatory?

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To me hugs mean, (((Squish))) "remember, we are not separate". I think monastic hugs are extra special because they live a life devoted to facing this stuff every day. Some have been ordained for more than 10 years. To face those struggles and have left over energy to share is a great virtue. I think hugs are great in general, because we have to face life on our own. All our struggles are ours to endure, even if we have a multitude standing at our side. A hug tells a person that we are all not so horribly different. we all have to wake up in the morning and face the day.

Though we appear to be alone outside, touch in general reminds us that we are not the only one here. In the story of the Buddha's awakening, he battles his own mind to reach enlightenment, the last thing his mind challenges him with is, "But this is all in your head, where is your witness to prove any of this is real?". The Buddha simply reached down and touched the earth, and his mind was defeated.

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Originally posted by Faith:
My mother was a turbulent Leo with a water void, whose fits of rage hit my Pisces moon like tsunamis. But I just presented the stoical Cap face.

I've never really understood all of that deeply, just numbed myself and carried on. I suppose I could heal by re-visiting that time and examining it with a greater light of consciousness.

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Whether a person wishes the end of their own suffering or the suffering of another, there is little difference in my opinion. Nobody deserves to suffer. I still feel your guilt is unfounded, but that is just my opinion. You will have to sit with that one in your own time. =)

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Originally posted by Faith:
One more question, I've been wanting to ask you this...is there a place for astrology in the Buddhist belief system? How does astrology fit....is it more about how your ego or mask functions...or is it more essential?

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Hmmm, some Buddhist traditions would say astrology is bad, but others use astrology to predict things like the reincarnation path of a holy person. I think astrology has a fantastic function of describing things in the world, but all the world is mind and that includes astrology. I think the middle view would be that astrology is useful, but has its limits and can lead to attachment to specific traits one associates with one's self.

posted June 30, 2012 09:30 PM            

I wrote a bunch of gibberish here while my children were nagging me and I was distracted. This forum is slow so I guess that gibberish may have gotten more exposure than its quality warranted.

I think I'll just let Xiiro have the final word.

posted June 30, 2012 09:45 PM            

Thanks for reading.

And just think, Xiiro is a MOD here so we're probably going to get to hear more from him!