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Author Topic:   For IQ A Study of the Nephilim from a Biblical persepctive
Ami Anne
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posted August 16, 2012 12:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will try to research this topic and see what I can find. My source will be the Bible.I will try to find interpretations that I feel are consistent with the Bible, as a whole, as it always hangs together, as a whole.

If it does not seem to do so, the error is with man's lack of knowledge, not internal error in the Bible imo

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Ami Anne
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posted August 16, 2012 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bob Deffinbaugh My first source says this:

I must say as we begin to study these verses that there is more disagreement here per square inch than almost anywhere in the Bible.

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Ami Anne
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posted August 16, 2012 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

From my cursory understanding over the years. most Biblical teacher I have studied would go with this explanation.

View 3: The Fallen Angel Interpretation

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Ami Anne
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posted August 16, 2012 12:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will be back, as this is turning out to be quite some study

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Ami Anne
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posted August 16, 2012 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This seems to be of the most difficult subjects in the Bible. In these cases, I like to go to someone who knows the original Greek and Hebrew like Arnold Fructenbaum or Les Feldick.
I will return.

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iQ
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posted August 16, 2012 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Ami,
Please note, I support the Bible BECAUSE it mentions Nephilim. These verses were supposed to have been edited out in the Nicene Conference of 305 AD [just like how the Book of Enoch was suppressed]. For centuries, we never paid enough attention to them but since the discovery of DNA, this information becomes important for the very survival of Humanity. If the Nephilim came in the past, then they can come again in the future. Or they have always been around, meddling with Humanity.

The Bible is an honest recollection of historical events, that is why I respect it so much [along with all Gnostic Texts ascribed to Jesus].

As per the New Testament Book of John, Jesus is a "begotten" Son of God as in the Greek Word "MonoGeneis". Not physically begotten but Spiritually of the same Essence.
Jesus says clearly that "before Abraham was, I Am".

He did not have Giant brothers. He would have mentioned them, or else they would have competed.

Thus, the one who ordered all the killings in the Old Testament, whose Sons are the "Nephilim", cannot be the Father of Jesus.

Jesus says "I and the Father are One".

Jesus did not kill anybody, nor ordered the death of any body, not even the Roman Soldiers who tortured His physical body. The Bible cannot contradict, for the "god" of Joshua is ordering genocide in several passages. A Father cannot order torture and death of his children, and thus any entity ordering the killing of women and children cannot be their creator.

Thus the "god" of the OT [who never says that He created the Souls of Man] is not the Father of Jesus.

Thus, the Bible could easily be describing several phony entities who played god and mislead Humanity [sniffing the blood of animals sacrificed on ALtars? Jesus never did that] UNTIL Jesus was sent by the Real God to get Humanity out of the combined mess created by the Nephilim, Lucifer, Anti-Christiac Entities, Cain's Bloodline and so on.

This is the analysis I am getting when I read both OT and NT together.


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Padre35
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posted August 16, 2012 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Ami A, this is one of the more fascinating, and rarely studied topics in the Word.

A couple of points:

-Raphalium (could be misspelled)
-If one studies the origins of the Amulek, the reasons why the Most High told the children of Israel to smite them and to spare them not
-The Giants, mighty men of old, are related to the fallen angels
-David's battle with Goliath, the number of stones he pulled from the river is an exact number for a reason.

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Ami Anne
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posted August 16, 2012 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes Padre
All numbers in the Bible mean something
I am going to go to my few trusted scholars and see what they say.

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Ami Anne
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posted August 16, 2012 05:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In his book “Messianic Christology” by Arnold Fruchtenbaum, he says the word Nephilim is translated as “fallen ones.

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Ami Anne
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posted August 16, 2012 05:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This I never heard. I thought the 200 man army was China but I would always defer to Arnold above all teachers, as he can read the Bible in the original Hebrew and Greek as he is a professor and has a Masters degree in Hebrew and Greek


Actually Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, in his wonderful book " "The Footsteps of the Messiah" states that the 200 million army refers to the demons chained at the bottom of the Euphrates river. The concept of the Chinese is a relatively new phenomena.

And those demons are probably the Nephilim which Enoch bound. More confirmation.

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Ami Anne
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posted August 16, 2012 05:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is gonna take time, but I think that the most respected Biblical scholars, such as Arnold, think the Nephilim are fallen angels


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Padre35
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posted August 16, 2012 06:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Ami Anne, if I may suggest using a Strong's Biblical Concordance and doing your own research.

I say that as the really good Biblical scholars will tell you to not take their word for it, to investigate it for yourself and see if you come to the same conclusions.

My caution is that the newly printed Strong's have been altered and watered down, curiously enough in this area.

1990-91 is the last truly accurate version

And I do not say that as a matter of opinion.

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Ami Anne
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posted August 16, 2012 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:

Ami Anne, if I may suggest using a Strong's Biblical Concordance and doing your own research.

I say that as the really good Biblical scholars will tell you to not take their word for it, to investigate it for yourself and see if you come to the same conclusions.

My caution is that the newly printed Strong's have been altered and watered down, curiously enough in this area.

1990-91 is the last truly accurate version

And I do not say that as a matter of opinion.



Padre
It is too much for me to undertake. My website demands a lot of me, and I am committed to helping newcomers on LL.

I am not up for this level of study, right now.

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Padre35
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posted August 16, 2012 07:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:

Padre
It is too much for me to undertake. My website demands a lot of me, and I am committed to helping newcomers on LL.

I am not up for this level of study, right now.




You sound really busy atm AA!

Let me take this opportunity to thank you for the wonderful reading you gave me when I first joined LG, I realize now what a nice gift that was now b/c you are so busy!

Suffice it to say, there was a joining of the daughters of men with angelic beings and such a linage was one of the reasons for the Flood

To me, this is one of the portions of our Faith that is rarely discussed b/c it sounds odd and most want "rationalism" over what transpired prior to the Incarnation.

Will say, in John when Jesus told some of the people that "you are like your father, he was a murderer and a liar of old" that there is more to that then meets the eye.

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Ami Anne
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posted August 16, 2012 07:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you so much Padre
I love LL so much and I want to give back for all it has done for me, so welcoming newcomers is a priority for me.

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iQ
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posted August 17, 2012 06:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Padre and Ami,
I think you both realize that it is impossible to understand the Nephilim without the Book of Enoch. From the Book of Enoch, we "know" [Gnosis ] that the Nephilim were Fallen Angels.

A huge disservice has been done to the Christian Masses by keeping out components of the Bible like the Nag Hammadi Scrolls, Dead Sea Scrolls and the Book of Enoch.

The Gospel of Thomas predates the Nicene Conference, and it should have been included in the Bible but was deliberately removed. This is material from those who knew Jesus personally, and were persecuted. So they hid the texts. They stayed hidden till 1945.

Had the Gospel of Thomas and other Nag Hammadi Scrolls reached Martin Luther or other anti-Catholic reformers, we would not have seen the World Wars.

The Core Teachings of the Gospel of Thomas:
"The Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty. "

Please note that this philosophy is absent in the OT. The word "Living Father" is never used in the OT, instead terms like "Jealous" god or "Vengeful" Lord is used.

Which brings us back to the core belief of Christianity: Jesus saying "I and the Father are One".

Jesus: Non vengeful, non-jealous, non-violent, created things from nothing, prevented a woman from being stoned to death, prevented the Disciples from attacking the Romans etc.

Father of Jesus: Living God, has no need of anything, no need of Blood Sacrifices, can create Ascension at Will and can Create from nothing. Created the Souls of All that Is.

The "god" of Moses and Joshua etc:
1. Did not attack the Nephilim, yet sent the
ten Plagues to Egypt. Did not Create food, water or anything actually, was always ordering or 'manifesting' disasters.

2. Ordered this:
Referring the Book of Numbers, the Jews "waged the campaign against Midian, as Yahweh had ordered Moses, and they put every male to death... the sons of Israel took the Midianite women captive with their young children, and plundered all their cattle, all their flocks and all their goods. They set fire to the towns where they lived and all their encampments... Then, when they took the captives, spoil and booty to Moses..., Moses was enraged.... 'why have you spared the life of all the women...? So kill all the male children. Kill also all the women who have slept with a man. Spare the lives only of the young girls who have not slept with a man, and take them for yourselves. "

3. Ordered this:
Then Yahweh said to Joshua, 'Now I am delivering Jericho and its king into your hands". So, when "the walls of Jericho came tumbling down", the Jewish warriors "enforced the ban on everything in the town: men and women, young and old, even the oxen and sheep and donkeys, massacring them all.

4. Ordered more Genocide:
Yahweh said to Joshua... "You are to do with Ai and its king as you did with Jericho and its king..."Joshua 8:2 And "the number of those who fell that day, men and women together, was twelve thousand, all people of Ai ... All to a man had fallen by the edge of the sword"

5. Ordered genocide against the Amelikites.

There are dozens and dozens more documentations of horrific genocide committed against women and children. Babies ordered to be slaughtered in front of their mother in pools of blood, by Yahweh. Just because they belonged to another tribe.

[It is believed by some that Adolf Hitler used the Old Testament as an inspiration to perpetrate the horrific Holocaust, that Adolf was inspired by an Entity or Archon like Yahweh himself to keep up the Blood Sacrifices, and to prevent the message of Christ and the Living Father from reaching Humanity. ]

---------------------------------------------

Jesus says : "I and the Father are One".

Mathematically, it is impossible for a Sage and Master of Compassion like Jesus to be born from an Entity that orders blood thirsty genocide against women and children.

Jesus did not slay even one Human Being nor ordered the slaying of any Human Being.

Thus, the Father of the Nephilim is NOT the Father of Jesus.

The Elohim are different, the Nephilim are different and Jesus Christ is way beyond the non-Spiritual Nephilim.


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Ami Anne
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posted August 17, 2012 07:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Arnold Fructenbaum and Les Feldick believe they are Fallen Angels, but there does not seem to be a lot of additional info to fill in, in the actual Bible.
Goliath is thought to be one.
I suppose the Flood killed them.

I suppose angels have choice, as Lucifer chose to disobey God. So, one could assume these fallen angels chose to disobey God, as did Lucifer.
I think that is as far as the Bible goes, with it.

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iQ
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posted August 18, 2012 06:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unfortunately they are also referred to as Heroes. The Flood killed only their hybrid descendants. The original Fallen Angels are unpunished as per the Bible and could have been misleading Humanity for the past 10,000 years after the Flood. The Book of Enoch however mentions that some of them were chained by Michael but the Vatican edits this out in the Nicene Conference? Under whose inspiration? Who authorized the Nicene Group to judge what was canonical and what not? Could not have been Jesus, Jesus never hid the Truth.

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Ami Anne
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posted August 18, 2012 09:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by iQ:
Unfortunately they are also referred to as Heroes. The Flood killed only their hybrid descendants. The original Fallen Angels are unpunished as per the Bible and could have been misleading Humanity for the past 10,000 years after the Flood. The Book of Enoch however mentions that some of them were chained by Michael but the Vatican edits this out in the Nicene Conference? Under whose inspiration? Who authorized the Nicene Group to judge what was canonical and what not? Could not have been Jesus, Jesus never hid the Truth.

Yes, this study is beyond my understanding, IQ.


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Padre35
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posted August 18, 2012 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Actually IQ, the OT names for God:

-"I am that I am" where Yavweh comes from

-EL "the"

-Elohim "the Most High"

-El Shaddai "the Provider"

David chose 5 smooth stones from the river bed because there were 5 giants in the land at the time:

"21:15–22, and 1 Chronicles 20:4–8.[3]

(16) And Ishbibenob, which was of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear weighed three hundred shekels of brass in weight, he being girded with a new sword, thought to have slain David. (17) But Abishai the son of Zeruiah succoured him, and smote the Philistine, and killed him. Then the men of David sware unto him, saying, Thou shalt go no more out with us to battle, that thou quench not the light of Israel. (18) And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant. (19) And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Ja’are-oregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam. (20) And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant. (21) And when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimeah the brother of David slew him. (22) These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants. [2 Samuel 21:16–22] "

http://excelministries.net/fivesmoothstones.htm


Where this really becomes interesting is the "giants" were all descendants of Anakim and Rephikim and what that eventually leads to is a word study that in Syrian means "those who come from the sky".

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Padre35
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posted August 18, 2012 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by iQ:
Unfortunately they are also referred to as Heroes. The Flood killed only their hybrid descendants. The original Fallen Angels are unpunished as per the Bible and could have been misleading Humanity for the past 10,000 years after the Flood. The Book of Enoch however mentions that some of them were chained by Michael but the Vatican edits this out in the Nicene Conference? Under whose inspiration? Who authorized the Nicene Group to judge what was canonical and what not? Could not have been Jesus, Jesus never hid the Truth.

Here is the danger in that, "Hero" is a Greek term, not a Hebraic one the use of that word glosses over what the original Hebraic meaning really is.

For example:

Hero=Hararite, Mtn dweller used in reference to two of David's "mighty men"
http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/2043.html
http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/0410.html
http://lexiconcordance.com/search6.asp?sm=0&sw=Heroes

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Ami Anne
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posted August 18, 2012 12:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Padre
Do you believe the Bible is the Divinely inspired Word of God?

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Padre35
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posted August 18, 2012 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Padre
Do you believe the Bible is the Divinely inspired Word of God?


I believe Christ is the Son of God.

I worship no book Ami A.

The Bible is the best representation of the early Church and the actual words of God in existence.

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juniperb
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posted August 18, 2012 01:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:
I believe Christ is the Son of God.

I worship no book Ami A.

The Bible is the best representation of the early Church and the actual words of God in existence.


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We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and Knows
Robert Frost

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Ami Anne
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posted August 18, 2012 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
The Bible is the best representation of the early Church and the actual words of God in existence.

Yes, I agree. I don't worship a book, of course. That is plain silly

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