posted September 14, 2012 06:56 PM            

IOW, the author lied. Or more likely the author was (like all too many) raised from an early age to believe religion was good and therefore constantly excuse and rationalize all that was barbaric in the holy books. Of course when someone with a different view is confronted with what I call "the Golden Rule" section they're quick to quote the more barbaric sections and as they say "there's no contradiction" then therefore the Golden Rule obviously isn't meant to apply here and thus those who champion peace (not to be confused with "submission" as I think Islam is said to do in its original language) find themselves talking to a brick wall, and since the peaceful won't acknowledge the barbaric parts then those advocating persecution and outright violence find themselves talking to a brick wall right back (I find it odd that it doesn't bother them all that other people believe what they believe just as strongly yet don't seem to ever question their own beliefs on what the Bible or Koran means).

Actually, it was interesting to see just how similar the Koran and Bible are, though with some odd differences as well. I consider both books barbaric and though there are a great many good Christians and Muslims I see them as good IN SPITE OF their religion, not because of it.

Btw, when I mentioned how terrible I found the Koran one peaceable Muslim said the reason the Koran comes sounding bad in English is because the words don't translate well. So I looked into it and in a way he was right...technically, at least. For example, one verse I read was about the beating of wives. Thing is the original language has as many names for beatings (and other forms of violence) that the English translation missed that it was (as close as English can come to saying it) "a light beating" for wives (and this is supposed to be ok and civilized) as opposed to the worse grades and degrees of beatings and brutality the original translation describes for many other people and crimes (including the crimes of open disbelief). OTOH, the fact that such a language treats violence the way Eskimos treat snow (who also have so many names for types of snow that also don't translate well into English other than generic "snow") is pretty horrifying to me, and the Koran is completely comfortable with that, so in that respect I came to dislike Islam even more.

posted September 14, 2012 07:36 PM            

quote:

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Btw, when I mentioned how terrible I found the Koran one peaceable Muslim said the reason the Koran comes sounding bad in English is because the words don't translate well. So I looked into it and in a way he was right...technically, at least.

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I believe there is some truth to this, yes. In a higher sense, further problems arise when an esoteric work is perceived by a materialistic and biased mind ill equipped to recognize its hidden truths. You might say this is why the Muslim Sufis are decidedly non violent folks while the extreme fundamentalist Muslim sects are often not. Same works for Christians and their Bible, Jews and their Torah. It's a difficult, messy spot to find ourselves in, to be sure. Let's face it, the overwhelming majority have little to no spiritual training and yet everyone has access to these complex spiritual handbooks. Of those that do have some study or training under their belt, a surprising number remain stubbornly attached to their individual and/or cultural fears and misgivings concerning all things religious. And very understandably so, of course! But we move ever upward and what was hidden will become known.

posted September 15, 2012 01:31 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Unsubstantiated rumor:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b]Join the ambassador who was sodomized and murdered.

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Forensic testing has not been done yet.

Let us use wisdom and compassion when passing along rumors.

God forbid, but if one of our family members were brutally murdered and our mind was bleeding, hearts torn out; how would you feel if someone added to our families torment by spreading unfounded brutality to the broken hearts?

That is what these family members are facing and it is unthinkable to add to their misery.

May we and they find peace. [/QUOTE]
.
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Wise words and I completely agree, Juni.

To write an unsubstantiated statement such as this one is not only inflammatory and anti-Muslim, but also libelous ... which places the owner of the website (Randall) at risk. Very inconsiderate toward him, imo.

And yeah, what is the purpose of saying such things other than to inflame?

posted September 15, 2012 01:35 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by iQ:
I did watch the Nick Berg video, long back and once again.

The terrorists who killed Nick or Daniel Pearl were certainly not following the Quran as there is no commandment in the Quran to kill or oppress any innocent man of any religion, leave alone a Jewish Man.

BTW, there are conflicting reports about that video too.

Here is an alternative view: [URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-6FD0ZlgZI&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.in%2Furl%3Furl%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%253Fv%253Du-6FD0ZlgZI%26rct%3Dj%26sa%3DX%26ei% 3DfjJ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-6FD0ZlgZI&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.in%2Furl%3Furl%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%253Fv%253Du-6FD0ZlgZI%26rct%3Dj%26sa%3DX%26ei %3DfjJ[/URL] TUNS3HsbHrQf-5oFo%26ved%3D0CDsQuAIwBA%26q%3DNick%2BBerg%26usg%3DAFQjCNEb1caybrhi8BxNZRrj-ABqIfw5kA

Nick's own dad says that Nick was illegally detained in Abu Ghraib by the US Military, for several days.

How did terrorists snatch him from the Abu Ghraib prison where Nick was held captive?

Why was Nick Berg wearing a orange jumpsuit like those issued to US prisoners?

Why was Nick arrested and held captive in Iraq for 13 days?

Why did Michael Berg have to sue the US Government to get his son released?

Why did the FBI visit Nick Berg 3 times during his detention in Iraq?

Why do Nick Berg's parents blame the Bush Regime for the death of their son by holding him "without due process or civil rights" ?

Why have you not seen the other side of the story before coming to a conclusion ?
Did Michael Berg's vocal opposition to the US Patriot Act have anything to do with Nick Berg being allowed to be kidnapped by terrorists from US Military Detention?

Nick's murder is deplorable. But those who should have protected Nick from Radical Terrorists failed in their duty too. They were busy with Abu Ghraib torture instead of protecting Nick from terrorists.

Is the Bible responsible for the behavior of Abu Ghraib torturers?

Is the Bible responsible for the US creating the Mujahideen to fight the Soviets?

Is the Bible responsible for Age
nt Orange dumped on Vietnam Civilians?

Is the Bible responsible for Hitler gassing innocent Jews?

Is the Bible responsible for the massacre of Chilean Civilians in a US Supported Coup?

Is the Bible responsible for the killing of millions of Native Americans?

Is the Bible responsible for the Inquisition that saw millions of people killed in Europe?

I do not think so. Only Killers are responsible for killing, and they can misuse any book, even a comic book to use as an excuse to kill innocents.

Blaming another religious scripture for the evils of wicked people is not righteousness and certainly not what Master Jesus would have done, in my honest view.

I would sincerely advise you to look at both sides of the coin before making a judgment.

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Bullet-proof argument as usual, iQ

posted September 15, 2012 06:55 AM            

Joshua massacred thousands of Amalakites including women and children under the alleged command of the Biblical God but such a command to kill is not found in the New Testament.
Medieval Muslim barbarians meted out similar barbaric treatment by following certain "hadiths" of prophetic traditions but there is no written documentation of hadiths until 300 years after the Prophet's death! A Barbarian needs only a Chinese Whisper to claim some divine right to kill opponents for their resources.

The Arabs before Prophet Muhammad delivered the Quran were indulging in massive female infanticide and the Quran explicitly banned this, thus saving the Arab Populace. To chide barbarians, obviously harsh words will be used, it does not mean such words should be taken literally in modern context. This is where Radicals differ from Moderates.

Islamic Radicals have a genetic predisposition to kill, they will take one verse out of context from the Quran, add ten hearsay traditions, then add ten falsely morphed videos of fake incidents to arouse passion in other unemployed radicals, and voila, you have a terrorist group ready to kill innocents.

Simple example, if a Time Traveler dropped Captain America comics and a talking action figure in 400 AD Arabia, then the Arab Terrorists today may have attacked modern USA for blaspheming the costume of a great Arab Hero!

They just need an excuse to kill, just like Hitler, Mao, Joshua, Chengiz Khan and Stalin.

A US Soldier killed 17 Afghan Civilians in cold blood. Can we blame any book for his actions?

Baruch Kopel Goldstein, a Jewish American killed 29 in cold blood and wounded 125 innocent civilian worshippers in a Mosque. This demonic individual certainly did not need any scripture to encourage him but his supporter, another demon Rabbi Yaacov Perrin claimed on his funeral that a million Arabs are not equal to one Jewish fingernail, and a third demon named Samuel Hacohen claimed that Baruch was 100% perfect. I am sure they misinterpret the Torah to support their demonic bloodlust just like Al-Qaeda demons misinterpret Quran and Hadiths.

Brievik and "The Joker" were also Christians, and they shot innocents to death. Can any book be blamed for this?

30,000 Americans have been killed every year in USA since 2002 from gun fire, zero of them from Islamic Radicals or foreign extremists. So did the Bible inspire the killings of 300,000 Americans by fellow Americans? When is a "War on Terror" gonna start about that this genocide? Which commandment has been followed in this genocide?

posted September 15, 2012 07:23 AM            

I think it may get out of hand and it's starting to get a bit political.

posted September 15, 2012 10:27 AM            

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posted September 15, 2012 01:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by iQ:
A Barbarian needs only a Chinese Whisper to claim some divine right to kill opponents for their resources.

Islamic Radicals have a genetic predisposition to kill, they will take one verse out of context from the Quran, add ten hearsay traditions, then add ten falsely morphed videos of fake incidents to arouse passion in other unemployed radicals, and voila, you have a terrorist group ready to kill innocents.

They just need an excuse to kill, just like Hitler, Mao, Joshua, Chengiz Khan and Stalin.

A US Soldier killed 17 Afghan Civilians in cold blood. Can we blame any book for his actions?

Brievik and "The Joker" were also Christians, and they shot innocents to death. Can any book be blamed for this?

30,000 Americans have been killed every year in USA since 2002 from gun fire, zero of them from Islamic Radicals or foreign extremists. So did the Bible inspire the killings of 300,000 Americans by fellow Americans? When is a "War on Terror" gonna start about that this genocide? Which commandment has been followed in this genocide?

See, a killer will twist even the writings on a Cornflakes box as an excuse to kill.

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I completely agree with all this!!
Direct reasoning and simple straightforward questions.

Instead of going off on an anti-Muslim rant (page 1 of this thread) and equating the Quran to a How-To-Kill directive, how about we answer some of these questions posed by iQ??

I'm sure honest answers will be all too revealing ... that for every finger we point at another, there are three fingers pointing right back at us!!

posted September 15, 2012 01:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by iQ:
The moment one scripture is singled out and belittled ...

... to process the reasons for singling out why only one scripture and only one particular religion is treated as evil by some sections the civilized world, whereas unlimited objective evidence exists to the contrary: That evil people exist in all religions.

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Yeah, I'd like to know this too!!

Why, folks?! Surely it's not because of lack of common sense ... or is it??

Personally, I don't like this singling out and attack of one scripture or religion. Find it mean spirited.

PS--iQ, I hope you can handle the swing from being a "role model" and an "idol" to becoming "deluded" ... without any side effects like headaches or PTSD

posted September 15, 2012 02:24 PM            

What kind of love would I have for you, IQ, or anyone if I did not stand up for the truth?

THAT IS TRUE LOVE

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted September 15, 2012 02:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by iQ:
The moment one scripture is singled out and belittled ...

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Hmm, let's see ... wonder where that thought went ... I just had it, and now it's poof ... oh here it is again ... come here you lil brat, you ... yup, got it finally, phew!

And nope! Don't think it's "love" that singles out and belittles ... especially not in the name of "truth."

Then again, maybe my neurons are in such a jumbled mess that my understanding has been reduced to that of a mule ... a "deluded" one at that

posted September 15, 2012 02:49 PM            

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posted September 15, 2012 03:01 PM            

Please note--I'm allowed to express my differing opinion, and I'm doing so directly to iQ, who I think of as a spiritual elder in this forum worthy of being given respect.

And again back to what iQ said, I don't think a single scripture like the Quran should be singled out and belittled. I think it's important to be mindful of how Christians would feel if the Bible were to be singled out and belittled.