posted December 22, 2012 10:13 PM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Perfect for the Christmas holidays! (And I think I've heard a few people say "santa" is just "satan with the 'n' moved.")

I'll watch it later and get back to you.

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posted December 22, 2012 10:39 PM            

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Originally posted by 7thGuardian:
This:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5mYFJ4irxM - seems legit, a bit incomplete but - sums it up pretty good for most part. Judge for yourselves.

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posted December 23, 2012 03:03 AM            

Btw, the reason there's separation of church & state in the US Constitution is because of the utter nightmarish horror and evil caused by the religious wars & inquisitions going on in Europe at the time, and seeing what happens to "Christian nations" they (or at least enough of them) didn't want that nightmare to be exported to America. (Granted, the Enlightenment, a type of proto-humanism, helped.)

What was scary about the very misogynistic Malleus Maleficarum, an infamous and very evil book that actually championed torture and human sacrifice to achieve God's blessings (and should rightly be classified as in the same league, if not worse, than Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler) is that Montague Summers in the early 20th century said in a forward to it that it needed to be brought back to counter women getting the right to vote.

If anyone would like to know more about the evolution of the Christian idea of the devil then I'd strongly recommend The Black Arts by Richard Cavendish, which also explores many occult topics such as astrology, and Satan Wants You (which includes a chapter or 2 on the history of Satan as an idea), which should be easy enough to get from the library (ask to ILL it if your library doesn't have it, and the ISBN number the reference librarian is likely to ask for is ISBN-10, which you can find in the Product Details at Amazon). They should be easy enough for most to understand, and I thought they were entertainingly written, too.

Time/Life Wizards and Witches also explores Satan as the Lord of Evil in the chapter on Masters of the Forbidden Arts (and also details the legend of Faustus and others like him), though it's more entertaining storytelling than informative IMO (yet plenty of trivia). It's kind of fun and it seems a great many libraries have it on their shelves so I mention it.

As for Satan as a tragic rebel hero there's a fiction book I loved (probably because I have so much air in my chart and there's a lot of philosophy and conflicting ideas tossed back and forth in it) called To Reign in Hell. IMO, this did to the War in Heaven what Anne Rice did to vampires, creating a compelling and fascinating mythos that actually made sense.

The Sandman graphic novel (comic) Seasons of the Mist is also a lot of fun (this time he's evil, but it's still well done, IMO, and Satan comments on the many views humans have about him). It also explores the idea that God NEEDS a Satan to oppose Him make everything work.

And that bit about how the Exorcist echoed the idea of women are more susceptible to Satan reminds me of the Satanic Panics that started in the 80s that also painted women that way...and even with feminists backing it those most persecuted are again women.

Loved the end message, and it's true: if there is a mystical lord of Evil then the invention of the concept of itself was its most powerful tool to inflict evil on the world, which leads to one of my favorite sayings:

"Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do." --Selenia, dark angel, in Magic: The Gathering

Or as Mencken put it:

"The worst government is the most moral. One composed of cynics is often very tolerant and humane. But when fanatics are on top there is no limit to oppression." --Mencken

posted December 23, 2012 10:28 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by 7thGuardian:
This:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5mYFJ4irxM - seems legit, a bit incomplete but - sums it up pretty good for most part. Judge for yourselves.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lexxigramer:
My internet connection is running too slow so will watch the video later on.
However, I find it annoying that people confuse Lucifer, Devil, Satan,etc. with each other.
They were not the same entity.

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Covers that part as well - since it's an "historical documentary". If your net connection is low, might be better if you download it - it's the one from 2009: The "History of The Devil 2009".

@PixieJane - i see you're pretty informed on this subject , mostly - i knew just bits and pieces (didn't read any "specific" books)...like - Lucifer being personified as a falling angel, wile in reality he was a "fallen Babylonian king" or 666 (so called number of the beast) - being representative for emperor Nero - which implied political reasons specific for "that time"... and so on. Yet - every year, every decade, every century - this stories have grown and turned in to something else - far from the original source/truth.

Devil, Satan, Lucifer, etc - are recognized as "symbols for evil" and they truly are... because humans "believed" in them in such way and placed all the hate, suffering, misery of the world in this symbols. "Humans created them" - they didn't exist before humanity came in to existence... in a way - you could say that - the term "Evil" was also created by humanity... same goes for "Good" - and symbols specific to this term like - Jesus, Buddha, Krishna and so on - symbols that became representative for the opposite: Love, happiness, joy... and they truly work in such way for same reason, because that's the "belief" that gives them power.

In the beginning - Light made its way through Darkness - and the more it grew the more this two became separated... even destruction, was just a process - part of creation, part of evolution... and then latter - at one point "conscious" speared - and the more it evolved the more in defined the surroundings - the Universe. Just like a child that grows and latter - when his conscious starts to take a specific shape - he starts thinking in this terms ...good or bad, light or dark and so on.

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Just mentioning this terms - and opening this topic... darkness started to manifest last night... at around 4 AM in the morning i had a vivid dream - or maybe would be more appropriate to call it "nightmare" - but not the normal kind (the kind that's meant as a message from my subconscious)... the type of dream that's like a vision from "present time" being part of reality: "I heard some noise around the house so i woke up - i opened my eyes, i was in my room and nothing was changed in it... but all of sudden was surrounded by lots of hands - i could feel them and see them as dark shapes "toying with me" as if they'd wanna grab me and drag me under... and then i woke up - again"... apparently i wasn't really awake before - was stucked bet wen reality and the other world (let's call it House 12 type of feeling).

I've been trough similar experiences before - so i was aware, that - going to sleep - this would happen again as soon as i closed my eyes... but i also knew how to deal with this this situation, which is what i did (I'll get to that in a minute) and after that - i went back to sleep and they didn't came back. Both good and evil, both light and darkness - are part of every human being... But, one of this sides is usually dominant - and for most part, this is related to the choices we make in life... yet, not entirely - from what I've seen: some are more influenced by darkness than light and that started happening since they took existence in this world, wile others are more influenced by light... In my case Light was always dominant and darkness tries to take over sometimes - in rare occasions tries that "uninvited" - but it others like in this case... "it" takes things like this topic - as an invitation... and same goes for other choices, like deciding to watch a "gruesome horror movie"... which is filled with evil manifestations and "if you choose" to enjoy that type of scene - that's like inviting darkness in to your hearth... which i know for sure - it affects those for which light is dominant - but can't say for sure what it's like for those who find this type of scenes appealing (a feast for their darkness).

posted December 23, 2012 07:17 PM            

Oh, let me share one of the cooler dreams regarding angels, demons, good & evil, and even a hand print that I had!

MY DREAM OF BECOMING A DIVINITY

On Wednesday, May 3rd, 2005 (if I recorded it right), I dreamed a force that tingled attatched itself to my back as I was in bed going back to sleep and it shrouded me. I tried communicating with it and then I was in a dream. I had wild, gnarly psychokinetic abilities to the point that I was even able to run on the ceiling. My features became more appealing and I later was able to shapeshift as I desired.

Then I found myself in an area ("plane of existence") of others like myself. Some were very young like me, others were hundreds or thousands of years old. Some were "older than this cosmos." In retrospect, I would say they were angels, though for the most part, they mostly looked human.

But I was somehow unique in that I could see through Time, including the future probabilities and how to best navigate them. This allowed me to alert other angels to a trap. This was set up by what might be called "the devil" though the creature reminded me more of Kali.

After that incident with the trap, I met "God." He was like the most powerful angel of all, but he was not omniscient or omnipotent. God demanded predictability in order to best detect the location and intents of the Evil One. But even God had to acknowledge that this predictability created an inanity that wore down all of Creation (including himself) and prevented as much good as it prevented evil--in a sense that good and evil remain in balance for all of God's interference. And because of my unique ability that he could not predict, he stripped me of my angelic status (that he did not give to me anyway--we were "randomly chosen") and sent me back.

Back in my room, there was a handprint on the wall that I had touched (or so I recalled at this time) to become angelic. Feeling it was important, I touched it again. Then one of the angels I met appeared and slapped me around. "Next time I put you in the hospital," he said. I knew he wasn't lying.

I replied, "Either I'm being tested or God is afraid and limited for him to send you to guard against me." The angel simply vanished without comment or even acknowledgement that I had spoken.

I knew touching the handprint was doomed to failure, so I thought about it, trying to attune to that force that had coursed through me. I realized that the force was trying to touch me not the other way around--and that one thing I had learned is that I was pure thought. So I THOUGHT my way to that power without physically touching it and made it. I instantly escaped before the wrath of God and his angels became manifest.

I came to realize, thanks to my ability to pierce Time with Sight, that the Evil One (EO) was searching for some artifacts, and I went to an area that I foresaw as giving the EO the tools that it would finally defeat God. This was a site in an arid region somewhere between Arizona/New Mexico and the Yucatan (I don't recall for sure).

I found a guy there already searching the ruins and with my abilities (Sight, PK, etc), I helped to unearth many of the artifacts which included a bunch of swords, a chalice, a light crown with a red gem on it, and a whip.

As I handled them from the cache, I knew that the EO was coming and I yelled at the mortals to run. I don't think they made it. I quickly put on the crown and took up the biggest, most powerful sword in one hand and a whip in the other. A human couldn't access the powers within them, but I could. But as I did, I sensed God feel me handling them and knew God was coming, too.

We were all removed from time and space into an odd pseudo area. The EO picked up the rest of the items in the cache and the items crumbled into dust--and I sensed the EO fed off of them, growing more powerful. Then the EO looked at me and my items hungrily. I faught him as he attacked but It was too fast and strong and powerful.

But in trying to use my Sight, I noticed that the EO and I were both "illusionary projections" of forces at work elsewhere. This allowed me to survive mortal blows because "the blows never landed" and prevented a biofeedback loop that killed me. In a way it was like I was Neo in The Matrix movies, but it was more than that.

Then God and his angels were there and I gladly retreated.

But then the EO did something none of us expected--it killed God and the cosmos was engulfed in darkness, terror, and pain. Like the other angels, I shrieked in agony as I felt our very essence being ripped out and devoured by the EO. Seeing what the EO was doing, I pulled back at ITS essence and then found myself in the same arena that God and the EO had faught. There, God was not fully dead, but close, and I pulled on God using myself and my artifacts to do so, as I contested the wounded EO who was trying to do the same.

In the end, it was only my ability to see and navigate the future (which had grown exponentially) that allowed me to prevail. And that I drained the artifacts I still held and put in a power that "intoxicates" those who called on them instead to prevent them from instantly turning to ash. Then I dropped all items, as if I hoped the wounded EO would go for them and allow me a headstart in running.

The EO first ran to the items and drank in their power which slowed it down from the tainted essence I'd instilled into them, and then I counterattacked, finally finishing him off and draining him. Then I had all the powers of God and the EO and was essentially the new guardian/keeper of the cosmos.

I came to realize that the Cosmos had chosen me to remove the hindrance on its growth and actualization. God had gone too far, and God was not the creator, just the guardian--and a rogue one. Because God refused to acknowledge certain aspects of himself, his mind splintered creating the Evil One and the entity almost as powerful and undefeatable because God could not face that the Evil One was him.

So the Cosmos had chosen me to fight them both (being one entity) and liberate the cosmos from its/their grasp. To fully restore balance, chaos and chance had to have a moment to allow new births and thus new growth. This is why the cosmos chose me and what it now tasked me with.

The other angels were in despair and wanted me to repair the artifacts, thus creating a more balanced view (in order to achieve their cooperation in the beginning, God had to make certain concessions, such as giving over some of his power to the angels and artifacts, in order to secure their cooperation--which God needed to maintain order as he was neither omniscient nor omnipotent).

I made new artifacts instead, though, which still accomplished the purpose. Rather than crowns and weapons and instruments of punishment, I crafted them out of models and pix of serene natural vistas, glowing stars that circled the entity using them, and a globe that looked like whatever phase the moon was in. I also reinvested in the angels, restoring them to their previoius levels. (It's true that many had been randomly chosen, but the EO had drained them, so I had their power within Me.)

I was still far more powerful than I imagined I could be and I saw the future--and it was beautiful. I saw the most beautiful wilderness, including on other worlds (some of them colonized by humans), with a wild galactic community that was exciting and beautiful.

I also sensed that I, too, would one day fall, and to help keep the last mistake from being made, I saught greater forces that I knew existed out there somewhere with the intent on making EVERYONE a god--mortal, angel, etc. Everyone, every species, every spirit. I knew this would spawn new cosmoses (and wouldn't always be pretty) and would prevent the enslavement of the cosmos as the last God had done.

In short, I would give birth to a constant Change that would ensure the maximum growth, birth, and actualization that had always been desired but had been unfortunately stifled in the last few billion years or so (knowing the time is more meaningless in the dream--I'm just approximating the "understanding" I had).

I felt a sense of accomplishment and ecstasy as I went about the biz of being God/dess (I transcended sex/gender in everyway) in a comsos of beauty. I woke up feeling wonderful and in a really good, hopeful mood.