Lindaland
  Divine Diversities
  Divine Diversities (Page 1)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
This topic is 3 pages long:   1  2  3 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Divine Diversities
Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 335
From:
Registered: Nov 2010

posted April 24, 2013 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For me, Divine Diversities is a part of the forum to respectfully celebrate the diversity of religious faiths. But I realize that, for others, it's just a place to go and hate on religion. So be it. I'm not sure if there really ought to be two separate forums; one for the lovers, and another for the haters.

What do you think?

IP: Logged

Faith
Knowflake

Posts: 4547
From:
Registered: Jul 2011

posted April 24, 2013 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^ Seems to me that you would fit in neither the lover nor the hater forum.

IP: Logged

Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 335
From:
Registered: Nov 2010

posted April 24, 2013 06:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds like you know exactly where you fit.

IP: Logged

shura
Knowflake

Posts: 551
From:
Registered: Jun 2009

posted April 24, 2013 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've wondered about this, HSC. After an extended LL break, I wandered in to find many new forums. (Quirky Cuisine?) I think DD may have been established before my break? I didn't read the forum with any frequency until recently though and was a bit surprised by the general atmosphere.

Religion seems to scare a lot of us.

IP: Logged

NativelyJoan
Knowflake

Posts: 1314
From: New England
Registered: Sep 2011

posted April 24, 2013 11:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sorry that you feel that way HSC. Can't we just learn to get along in the already conceived DD. Segregating DD seems completely unnecessary.

I vote NO. DD is an area where we can engage in discourse that allows us to broaden our minds and learn more about the belief systems held by others. We might not support what others believe but we do have to respect them. They are entitled to their beliefs, even if they challenge our own.

IP: Logged

doommlord
Moderator

Posts: 2135
From: israel
Registered: Dec 2011

posted April 25, 2013 12:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for doommlord     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I see no reason to break the forum into 2 pieces especially since I'm sure one of the reasons the forum was open for is for debates.

IP: Logged

Faith
Knowflake

Posts: 4547
From:
Registered: Jul 2011

posted April 25, 2013 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
But I realize that, for others, it's just a place to go and hate on religion.

With all due respect, don't you hate on religion as well? Don't you have a low opinion of fundamentalism?

There's no way to be, no way to speak, that doesn't offend someone.

Mutual respect is nice, but if you sincerely believe that another person is adhering to a religious way of life that is nonsensical, unnatural, detrimental in myriad ways...then there is only so much you can do to mask your true opinion.

I do know where I belong, HSC, and it's in a place of peace within myself regardless of whatever turmoil exists in the world.

IP: Logged

juniperb
Moderator

Posts: 6547
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 25, 2013 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I`m with Faith and the majority on this.

Recognising and interacting on diverse beliefs are how we grow. Same beliefs can be stagnant and stifling.

I see the problem, or division of forums ,stemming from self and how we react to others "beliefs". Do we hammer on the difference or seek a harmony. We run into the "I am truth" and you are going to hell types or the Bible is a pack of lies....but so what. If it harms you or malkes one angry, time to move away and get some distance.

It all boils down to how comfortable one is with self, Faith and the ability to share differences.

quote:
There's no way to be, no way to speak, that doesn't offend someone.

Absolutely.

------------------
We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. ~ Mattie Stepanek

IP: Logged

shura
Knowflake

Posts: 551
From:
Registered: Jun 2009

posted April 25, 2013 10:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't believe the forum should be split. There are enough forums as is

Skimming through a few pages' worth of thread titles, I can't help but sympathize with HSC's observation. However, in fairness, this is a New Age site. Most of us aren't comfortable with mainstream religions.

Also, 'fundamentalism' isn't a religion. I think it would be better to say it's a style of interpreting religious doctrine. I have many disagreements with a fundamentalist approach whether it's taken by the typical born again evangelist or a new age proponent. (they're oddly similar) I have no quarrel with Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc.

IP: Logged

T
Knowflake

Posts: 9484
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 25, 2013 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
I'm not sure if there really ought to be two separate forums; one for the lovers, and another for the haters.
What do you think?

I think separate threads for them works just fine. A separate forum isnt necessary, imo.

I don't see a lot of hating going on here anyway.

It's not hard to ignore the things you don't like to read or arent interested in either. I mostly do that and it works out well.

IP: Logged

T
Knowflake

Posts: 9484
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 25, 2013 11:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...ignore them or see them for what they are and it's easy to move on.

when one starts on a certain slant I usually just end up barely skimming through or skipping the post altogether.

Many of us here tend to get rather repetitive.

IP: Logged

shura
Knowflake

Posts: 551
From:
Registered: Jun 2009

posted April 25, 2013 11:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
It's not hard to ignore the things you don't like to read or arent interested in either. I mostly do that and it works out well.

Good old fashioned Taurus common sense. God bless it. But scorps just don't think like that.

IP: Logged

T
Knowflake

Posts: 9484
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 25, 2013 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL God do I know all about that with them!

Exhausting sometimes. lol

IP: Logged

Ami Anne
Moderator

Posts: 41003
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted April 25, 2013 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
For me, Divine Diversities is a part of the forum to respectfully celebrate the diversity of religious faiths. But I realize that, for others, it's just a place to go and hate on religion. So be it. I'm not sure if there really ought to be two separate forums; one for the lovers, and another for the haters.

What do you think?



The haters think they are lovers, so it wouldn't work

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

IP: Logged

T
Knowflake

Posts: 9484
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 25, 2013 11:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:

The haters think they are lovers, so it wouldn't work



See what kind of realizations you can come to when you reflect on yourself and your own behavior, Ami?

You should try it more often.

IP: Logged

T
Knowflake

Posts: 9484
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 25, 2013 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The simpler you keep it here at LL, the less opportunity you give to the trolls or people only looking to argue with you. Much, if not more, can often be said in a sentence or two. And that's what you have Taureans for. Although I do appreciate the approach our opposite sign often takes too.

IP: Logged

Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 335
From:
Registered: Nov 2010

posted April 25, 2013 11:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
I'm sorry that you feel that way HSC. Can't we just learn to get along in the already conceived DD. Segregating DD seems completely unnecessary.

You're sorry I feel like celebrating religious diversity and respectfully discussing our religious differences, rather than painting all religions with the same broad, black brush? I did not express a desire to segregate. I said I was unsure, and asked for the input of others.

quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
I vote NO. DD is an area where we can engage in discourse that allows us to broaden our minds and learn more about the belief systems held by others. We might not support what others believe but we do have to respect them. They are entitled to their beliefs, even if they challenge our own.

Discourse is one thing. How much discourse is invited, and how much respect is shown, when threads are erected for the sole purpose of bashing the belief systems of others? This is what I see happening.

Clearly, Randall has seen fit to "segregate" from one another more than two-dozen areas of discourse. We who wish to discuss religion are already "segregated" from the rest of the forum. Political views of conservative and liberal have largely been "segregated" between two distinct Global Unity forums, in order to set a limit upon the unrest of dissent. And perhaps this is wise, for the sake of peaceful organization. I do not decide one way or the other, but I think it is a discussion worth having.

IP: Logged

PixieJane
Knowflake

Posts: 2129
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010

posted April 25, 2013 11:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^^

False dichotomy. Plenty of religious people who have and do post here do not celebrate (or even respect) other religions, sometimes not even other denominations of their own religion. And much of the "bashing" you see going on here is a reaction to those who promote their own religious perspective as the one true way.

So to do what you want there would have to be say an Eastern Religion forum, Unitarian/New Age forum, Agnostic/Atheist forum, and at least 2 Christian forums (roughly one liberal, one conservative). And that could confuse some people who post like one member who "found Christ who saved her from astrology" or some such who posted a thread in this forum to tell us "with love" to abandon astrology (what if she had to post on all the forums?). Heck, out of those examples I thought of which forum would you choose to post in? Unitarian/New Age or Liberal Christian?

And what would be the point?

IP: Logged

Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 335
From:
Registered: Nov 2010

posted April 25, 2013 11:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by shura:
Skimming through a few pages' worth of thread titles, I can't help but sympathize with HSC's observation.

Hard to miss, isn't it?

quote:
Originally posted by shura:
However, in fairness, this is a New Age site. Most of us aren't comfortable with mainstream religions.

Yes, it is a New Age site. I don't expect to find consensus or anything particularly mainstream here. Nevertheless, we see people bucking against all religious expression, as if all religions (even those expressed on a New Age site) are mainstream, by definition. And, as we see, there are many forums set up for the free discussion of New Age philosophies and practices. This part is expressly dedicated to religion. I was under the impression that it was dedicated to the respectful discussion of religion, but perhaps I was mistaken.

quote:
Originally posted by shura:
Also, 'fundamentalism' isn't a religion. I think it would be better to say it's a style of interpreting religious doctrine. I have many disagreements with a fundamentalist approach whether it's taken by the typical born again evangelist or a new age proponent. (they're oddly similar) I have no quarrel with Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc.

My sentiments exactly. What irks me is the atmosphere of pure irony surrounding this anti-religious, New Age breed of fundamentalist. Their fundamentalism consists precisely in their interpretation of all religion as fundamentalism. In fact, fundamentalism is only religion in the sense that pseudo-science is science, or in the sense that a charlatan, claiming to be a psychic, is psychic.

"The fact that true scientists are as rare as saints in the Church does not at all alter the fact that it is they who represent science. Because it is not the sick and deformed who represent a family, but rather its healthy members."
~ Valentin Tomberg

IP: Logged

NativelyJoan
Knowflake

Posts: 1314
From: New England
Registered: Sep 2011

posted April 26, 2013 12:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
You're sorry I feel like celebrating religious diversity, rather than painting all religions with the same broad, black brush? I did not express a desire to segregate. I said I was unsure, and asked for the input of others.

No, I'm sorry that you feel like your beliefs (and religions) aren't being respected here in DD. You asked for input and I gave mine. You might not like what I had to say, but once again I am entitled to voice my opinions.

Yes Divine Diversities is about diversity in belief systems, but it's a forum that encourages people of ALL belief systems not just orthodox religions to share their views and opinions. You've got strong beliefs and don't appreciate people ridiculing them nor does anyone else. However, in a forum like DD that encourages diversity in beliefs, as already noted by Faith in her comments, somehow or someway you'll end up offending someone. It's the price to pay with the freedom that comes with expressing your own beliefs.

IP: Logged

Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 335
From:
Registered: Nov 2010

posted April 26, 2013 12:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
With all due respect, don't you hate on religion as well? Don't you have a low opinion of fundamentalism?

Fundamentalism is not religion, any more than psuedo-science is science. And, regardless of my criticisms, I do not erect threads for the sole purpose of bashing fundamentalism, let alone reducing all religion to fundamentalism. This is an important distinction. My criticisms arise in context, and are more often inferred than explicit. The method I prefer to adopt is the positive promotion of what I feel is worthy of demonstration.

quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
There's no way to be, no way to speak, that doesn't offend someone.

Mutual respect is nice, but if you sincerely believe that another person is adhering to a religious way of life that is nonsensical, unnatural, detrimental in myriad ways... then there is only so much you can do to mask your true opinion.


Well said. Perhaps we can agree that an unveiled assault on religion as "the source of humanity's ills" makes absolutely NO attempt to mask its contempt. Likewise, posting in a forum devoted to religious diversity, when you clearly despise religion, and paint all religions with one brush; flatly refusing to recognize it as diverse. It is not a negative reasonably inferred from a positive, but a negative, pure and simple.

quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
I do know where I belong, HSC, and it's in a place of peace within myself regardless of whatever turmoil exists in the world.

A noble enough reminder. But we can't always retreat from the turmoil in the world. We are called to manifest our peace outwardly, through communion; dialogue, etc. If our spirituality infuses the world, as i believe it should, then there is nothing worldly. But if our peace depends on disengaging from the world, and regarding the world as a place of turmoil, it is hardly "regardless". Perhaps this is what lies at the root of my engagement with, and regard for, religion; I would rather bring my spiritual understanding to bear upon religious matters, than blithely disregard them as something worldly and worthy of disdain.

IP: Logged

Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 335
From:
Registered: Nov 2010

posted April 26, 2013 12:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
No, I'm sorry that you feel like your beliefs (and religions) aren't being respected here in DD.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
You asked for input and I gave mine. You might not like what I had to say, but once again I am entitled to voice my opinions.

Yes, I did ask for input. Yes, you are entitled to voice your opinions. Just as I am entitled to voice mine and to inquire further into yours, for the sake of clarity. I'm not sure why you seem to think I am objecting to disagreement or discussion.

quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
Yes Divine Diversities is about diversity in belief systems, but it's a forum that encourages people of ALL belief systems not just orthodox religions to share their views and opinions. You've got strong beliefs and don't appreciate people ridiculing them nor does anyone else. However, in a forum like DD that encourages diversity in beliefs, as already noted by Faith in her comments, somehow or someway you'll end up offending someone. It's the price to pay with the freedom that comes with expressing your own beliefs.

There's nothing "orthodox" about my religion. Just because I identify myself as Christian, and immerse myself in the stream of Christian traditions and symbolism, does not mean my interpretations are any less radical than the views of anyone else here. We all make use of common terminology. I make particular use of Christian terminology. But the use I make of it is my own.

I have learned from many religious traditions; many belief systems and symbol systems. My Christianity is informed by a penetrating knowledge of Buddhism, Hinduism, Sufism, and others. I welcome discussion of religious differences, and I welcome the input of those who choose not to characterize their beliefs as religious. But I'm not sure if I welcome spiteful attacks on all religious beliefs, as we have seen some posters engage in. It seems reasonable to ask why they choose to post in a forum devoted to religious tolerance, if they are so fundamentally intolerant of religion in general. Again, it seems reasonable to suggest a discussion as to whether it might be beneficial to everyone involved if these posters had their own space; one dedicated to religious intolerance.

IP: Logged

Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 335
From:
Registered: Nov 2010

posted April 26, 2013 01:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
^^
False dichotomy. Plenty of religious people who have and do post here do not celebrate (or even respect) other religions, sometimes not even other denominations of their own religion. And much of the "bashing" you see going on here is a reaction to those who promote their own religious perspective as the one true way.

I understand that, and I think you make a good point, to some extent. But the dichotomy I wish to stress is not between those who respect or disrespect religious differences. I would rather draw attention to the dichotomy between those who respect some form of religion and those who have no respect for any religion or denomination whatsoever. More than that, I wish to suggest the dichotomy between those who wish to express their faith, while incidentally voicing disregard or disrespect for other religions (or pseudo-religions), and those who wish to post threads with the sole purpose of bashing either a particular religion or religion in general. These are not false dichotomies. We are taking about the difference between an affirmation and a defamation. Each may be tinged with shades of grey, yes, but the thrust is going to be either black or white.

quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:

So to do what you want there would have to be say an Eastern Religion forum, Unitarian/New Age forum, Agnostic/Atheist forum, and at least 2 Christian forums (roughly one liberal, one conservative). And that could confuse some people who post like one member who "found Christ who saved her from astrology" or some such who posted a thread in this forum to tell us "with love" to abandon astrology (what if she had to post on all the forums?). Heck, out of those examples I thought of which forum would you choose to post in? Unitarian/New Age or Liberal Christian? And what would be the point?

I understand your argument, and I don't think it reflects an understanding of my own. It is entirely possible to glorify one's own faith tradition without continually contrasting it with the traditions of others. Certainly, it is possible to affirm one's beliefs without making the defamation of other belief systems the central point.

The instance you raised, of somebody thanking God for freeing them from astrology, is somewhat tricky, I'll admit, but it does sound to me like a thinly veiled attack. Still, it's a clever example and it does force me to reconsider how I frame this debate. For one thing, even without the mention of religion, I think such a thread would be more offensive if it appeared in the astrology forum. I myself have posted a few negative threads or posts about psychiatry and mainstream medicine in Health and Healing (for which I have since expressed some regret, along with a desire to focus more directly on what I endorse; and only indirectly on what I oppose), -- but I never started a thread entitled "Health and Healing - the source of all society's ills?". Can we agree, that might be taking it a little too far?

IP: Logged

NativelyJoan
Knowflake

Posts: 1314
From: New England
Registered: Sep 2011

posted April 26, 2013 01:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
I welcome discussion of religious differences, and I welcome the input of those who choose not to characterize their beliefs as religious. But I'm not sure if I welcome spiteful attacks on all religious beliefs, as we have seen some posters engage in. It seems reasonable to ask why they choose to post in a forum devoted to religious tolerance, if they are so fundamentally intolerant of religion in general. Again, it seems reasonable to suggest a discussion as to whether it might be beneficial to everyone involved if these posters had their own space; one dedicated to religious intolerance.

People take their beliefs very personally and they can't be faulted for being honest. It might not come out the way you or I would like it to, but it's their truth to speak. Maybe those who are intolerant are trying to learn to be more tolerant by engaging in discussions on this forum. I just don't see how separating the forum would solve the problem of intolerance. I actually think it would further exasperate it. Things can get very touchy in DD because the topics are so personal to each individual. I think it's important for people to have an environment where they can share their views, both positive and negative in regards to their beliefs. But that's just my point of view.

IP: Logged

T
Knowflake

Posts: 9484
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 26, 2013 02:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

IP: Logged


This topic is 3 pages long:   1  2  3 

All times are Eastern Standard Time

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Linda-Goodman.com

Copyright 2000-2013

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a