posted July 17, 2013 11:34 AM            

However:

quote:

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The Shi’ite Muslim festival of Ashura, an annual event dedicated to Imam Ali Hussein, the grandson of Muhammad, includes a religious ritual called Matam (Malik 2). Hundreds of people go into a prayer room and they all endure pounding on their chests by bare hands to show solidarity with Hussain Ibne Ali who was Martyred by the army of Tyrant ruler Yazid in the Battle of Karbala, a fight between Prophet Muhammad's family and Abu Sufian's family. During the last day of the ten-day ritual, the men graduate from slaps on their chests to beating their backs with a Zanjeer, a whip with blades on the ends (Baker 2, Malik 1). This represents the dedication and loyalty to their leader Ali Hussein, who died for Islam and humanity. The blood letting symbolizes shedding blood for Islam, a parallel to their leader dying in the Battle of Karbala, for Islam (Baker 2). Among other places, the Ashura festival is practiced in Kabul (Baker 1), Britain, India, Pakistan, Iraq and United States. (Malik 5).

In London, the participants in the Ashura festival range from the age of 6 into adulthood (Malik 2). Children practicing the ceremony of Matam with Zanjeer’s is not legal in Britain under “…Section 1(1) of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933—one of willful neglect in a manner likely to cause a child unnecessary suffering or injury” (Malik 3). However, officers do not prosecute because of the festival’s religious affiliation (Malik, 1-3). According to Chris Bourlet, a Detective at the “Metropolitan Police’s Child Protection Command,” he said, “The last thing [we] wanted to do was to police mosques…[and]… faiths…”(Malik 3). A problem with this ceremony being practiced in Britain is that some Shi’ite children are given the opportunity to participate in the flagellation with Zanjeers (Malik 2). That issue is a battle between religious rights and child protection (Malik 4). According to Sayyed Nadeem Kazmi, an academic with a religious organization called the Khoei Foundation, “…the parents feel obliged to let their children do it. It’s very hard to tell your child not to be religious.” (Malik 2). A child was reported having scars on his back in 2003, and since then the festival’s committee assures “…the hall has been cleared of all minors when the adults take part in the zanjeer ceremony” (Malik 3). It is a matter of faith in the parents and the ceremony’s committee to ensure that children do not participate (Malik 4).

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posted July 28, 2013 03:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I think I've said enough about how much I detest these wars in the Middle East, and how close I've gotten to certain Muslims, that many of you will know I am not trying to be bigoted here.

However:

[QUOTE]The Shi’ite Muslim festival of Ashura, an annual event dedicated to Imam Ali Hussein, the grandson of Muhammad, includes a religious ritual called Matam (Malik 2). Hundreds of people go into a prayer room and they all endure pounding on their chests by bare hands to show solidarity with Hussain Ibne Ali who was Martyred by the army of Tyrant ruler Yazid in the Battle of Karbala, a fight between Prophet Muhammad's family and Abu Sufian's family. [b]During the last day of the ten-day ritual, the men graduate from slaps on their chests to beating their backs with a Zanjeer, a whip with blades on the ends (Baker 2, Malik 1). This represents the dedication and loyalty to their leader Ali Hussein, who died for Islam and humanity. The blood letting symbolizes shedding blood for Islam, a parallel to their leader dying in the Battle of Karbala, for Islam (Baker 2). Among other places, the Ashura festival is practiced in Kabul (Baker 1), Britain, India, Pakistan, Iraq and United States. (Malik 5).

In London, the participants in the Ashura festival range from the age of 6 into adulthood (Malik 2). Children practicing the ceremony of Matam with Zanjeer’s is not legal in Britain under “…Section 1(1) of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933—one of willful neglect in a manner likely to cause a child unnecessary suffering or injury” (Malik 3). However, officers do not prosecute because of the festival’s religious affiliation (Malik, 1-3). According to Chris Bourlet, a Detective at the “Metropolitan Police’s Child Protection Command,” he said, “The last thing [we] wanted to do was to police mosques…[and]… faiths…”(Malik 3). A problem with this ceremony being practiced in Britain is that some Shi’ite children are given the opportunity to participate in the flagellation with Zanjeers (Malik 2). That issue is a battle between religious rights and child protection (Malik 4). According to Sayyed Nadeem Kazmi, an academic with a religious organization called the Khoei Foundation, “…the parents feel obliged to let their children do it. It’s very hard to tell your child not to be religious.” (Malik 2). A child was reported having scars on his back in 2003, and since then the festival’s committee assures “…the hall has been cleared of all minors when the adults take part in the zanjeer ceremony” (Malik 3). It is a matter of faith in the parents and the ceremony’s committee to ensure that children do not participate (Malik 4).

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Horrible![/B][/QUOTE]

posted October 11, 2013 05:36 PM            

To Train Up A Child: The book that's leading parents to kill?

Pastor Michael Pearl defends his corporal punishment guide after it is found in the homes of three children who died from alleged abuse.

A Tennessee preacher and corporal punishment advocate is coming under intense criticism after copies of his self-published book, To Train Up a Child, were found in three homes where children died from alleged abuse. In his book, pastor Michael Pearl advises parents to use a switch on children as young as 6 months old to discourage bad behavior, saying he models his methods on "principles the Amish use to train their stubborn mules." Pearl says it's unfair to blame the extreme actions of a few unstable parents on a book that has sold more than 670,000 copies, especially since he explicitly tells parents not to spank in anger or hit hard enough to leave a bruise. Does he share any of the blame?

Yes. Encouraging extreme discipline puts kids at risk: Pearl's defense is weak, says Margaret Hartmann at Jezebel. In September, 13-year-old Hana Williams was found dead outside her Washington home. She died from hypothermia and malnutrition after her parents allegedly subjected her to an "intensified version" of Pearl-style discipline. They allegedly beat her with a flexible plumbing tube, deprived her of food, and forced her to shower and sleep outside in the cold. Pearl didn't tell parents to take it that far, but he gave them "a guide to unhealthy and dangerous behavior."
"Pastor still advocates using 'the rod' after third child dies"

No. Blame the parents, not Pearl: "While Pearl's methods are a bit extreme," says Rob Brown at The Hippie Conservative, the discipline he preaches is "typical of those parents who engage in corporal discipline." Most parents who spank their kids don't "take it to the extreme." Some do — whether they've read Pearl's book or not. People blaming Pearl for the violent behavior of a few parents are just trying to "sensationalize" this story.
"Spanking — yes, or no?"

Pearl is at least misinterpreting the Bible: Pearl tells his devout Christian followers that the Bible says they should whip their children, says Tony W. Cartledge at Baptists Today, and then advises them that a flexible quarter-inch hose is his "favored instrument of punishment." That's a recipe for disaster, and a distortion of Christianity. "I can't see Jesus raising his hand — or a length of hose — to a child."
"Spare the hose?"
**************************** http://theweek.com/article/index/221196/to-train-up-a-child-the-book-thats-leading-parents-to-kill

By The Week Staff | November 8, 2011

posted October 11, 2013 06:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lexxigramer:
In September, 13-year-old Hana Williams was found dead outside her Washington home. She died from hypothermia and malnutrition after her parents allegedly subjected her to an "intensified version" of Pearl-style discipline. They allegedly beat her with a flexible plumbing tube, deprived her of food, and forced her to shower and sleep outside in the cold

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IIRC, the girl had been adopted from Africa. I swear some people adopt just to have someone to abuse. And in this specific case the punishment was for "lying" (when punishments were what's officially classified as torture it's no surprise that a child would lie...and wouldn't surprise me if the child hadn't lied anyway, the point was probably more about sadism than correction anyway). After the child had died the mom called 911 and lied herself saying the girl had done it to herself but the autopsy quickly exposed that lie (as probably witnessing the body did). Then she changed her story to she read of the pastor telling her to do it and it was like her religious right or something to torture a child she adopted.

I'm inclined to blame the parents more than anyone else. However, it would've been very nice had all the Christian groups (including the pastor) officially and publicly condemned this act. But they didn't. In fact, they did what they usually do as far as I can tell and tried to make it out to be she was being given the third degree for a giving a minor spanking which is why they have no credibility with me and every single time I heard some fundies (or anyone else for that matter) whining that they can't spank kids anymore I remember cases like this because they almost invariably are cases of actual torture than a simple spanking.

When the gruesome details became public in this case then they stopped supporting her, but they did not condemn her (at least not that I saw) other than to say to not blame the book. And for THAT I'll hold them and their "preaching loving discipline" in contempt.

Besides, a real problem many of them don't understand is it's all about respect which they confuse with fear. In most cases, an authority figure who walks their talk, lives up to their own professed values, is fair & reasonable is going to inspire respect from children who will want to please the said authority figure. They'll feel horrible and disappointed in themselves about doing wrong even if they aren't caught & punished.

posted October 11, 2013 06:46 PM            

Disgusting.
They basically murdered these children.

posted October 11, 2013 07:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Here's something that desperately needs to change:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QB9ZWM-iq0

And THAT I blame on the religious right...though I want to slap the parents who stick their kids in places like that when they should be smarter than that (and if they know very well what they're doing then they should share in the blame and be prosecuted right along with those who abuse just as someone is prosecuted for paying someone else to commit felony violence and murder on another).

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posted October 11, 2013 07:12 PM            

But here's the transcript that includes everything in the vid and much more (the entire report):
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/02/acd.01.html