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Author Topic:   The “God is Good” Paradox.
Lei_Kuei
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posted August 11, 2015 05:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei        Reply w/Quote
If Good is what’s used to describe the nature of God, then Good is predicating God as a definition of Good.

The paradox being; There can only be one Ultimate Nature, yet the statement God is Good/Love/Whatever requires two (Good & God), or is God by his nature bound to obey “the good”?

A God bound to laws…? Zeus is that you?


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juniperb
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posted August 11, 2015 07:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb        Reply w/Quote
God is harmony and balance.

When laws/life are balanced, it is good.

Another way to look at it is Islam`s 99 Names of Allah.

I will spare you the 99 but list a few to see how what we see as not good becomes good.


The Nourisher
The Bringer of Judgment
The Giver of Life
The Bringer of Death
The Patron, The Protecting Friend, The Friendly Lord
The Avenger
The Withholder, The Shielder, The Defender
The Immutable, The Infinite, The Everlasting
The Distressor, The Harmer, The Afflictor
The Bountiful, The Generous

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam#Lists_of_names

When all the humanly perceived negatives and postives are brought together and harmonious, it is humanly called "good"

To remember ,it us we who try to name the God and our language fails us.

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Partial truth~the seeds of wisdom~can be found in many places...The seeds of wisdom are contained in all scriptures ever written… especially in art, music, and poetry and, above all, in Nature.

Linda Goodman

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Randall
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posted August 12, 2015 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall        Reply w/Quote

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Lei_Kuei
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posted August 12, 2015 06:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei        Reply w/Quote
quote:
God is harmony and balance.
When laws/life are balanced, it is good.

What you are saying here is in no way escaping the Paradoxical nature of “God is Good”, you are merely substituting “Good” for a different predication and then applying it to what God is/Should be.

quote:
When all the humanly perceived negatives and positives are brought together and harmonious, it is humanly called "good"

From a certain POV perhaps (and most likely any rational humanist), yet many people have different definitions of good… and worse still no matter what the definition is…. there is little escape from the conundrum of two Ultimate Natures, with God (in how God is generally perceived with the paradox absent thought) being bound to obey the laws of the first. (And any deity bound to laws is unworthy of such a title in the first place)

I disagree that language is the problem, (however it’s a much bigger topic, one I may not have the time for currently), and if anything the linear nature of language often shows very clearly fallacies in logic that thwart reason.

And much as you alluded to in the list of names you posted, God is not always classed as Good… if anything there have certainly been times where such a proclaimed deity would easily fit the phrase “God is Evil”…? What then of this predicating nature that God becomes paradoxically bound too?

I sense there is a deeper paradox at work in what I said initially, with it’s implications masking the resting place of the first Ultimate Nature in the statement; “God is Good”

Interestingly… I recall a very similar “two natures” mentioned in a book often attributed to some heretic way back when…

quote:
The Heretic said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. In the days when you consumed what is dead, you made it what is alive. When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

A curious thought indeed this “two”…

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PixieJane
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posted August 13, 2015 02:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
God is harmony and balance

That's how I view the Christian vices and virtues. They're all good in balance and harmony, and all bad when not.

Wrath creates positive changes and we'd live in a much worse world had people not become angry enough to do something about it, and it can prevent people from being exploited and abused. Pride can motivate people to become better than they are, or at least to try their best. Lust and gluttony have their positive aspects as well (which pride and vanity can help keep in check). It's when these things become obsessions rather than indulgences (or they're acted on in bad ways) that they become self-destructive and harmful.

Same for virtues like love and charity. Love is useful for hate propaganda (The Enemy threats your children and mothers, for example, or something else you cherish like church and community, and if you didn't love them then you wouldn't really care that they're threatened), it can cause you to support terrible behavior (in extreme cases it even gets people to stand by brutal abusers and killers), and can facilitate one's own abuse through love, forgiveness, and mercy when taken to an extreme (obsession) or otherwise practiced in an unwise way.

I actually don't like the story of the widow's mites. By doing so she was becoming a burden herself and failing to make the world a better place, and realistically (especially back then) she'd probably given up completely on living (that is she was suicidal or consigned to death) which isn't the same thing as being selfless. It also means God isn't pleased unless it HURTS, and of course that begs the question why God would want the poor to receive then? To prolong their suffering which is pleasing to God? Otherwise everyone should give everything meaning charity is pointless because no one should be receiving anything, only in giving up all of who they are, total surrender. If the poor were to be helped out of love instead then the widow was in need of their help and surely she could have come up with other ways to help without becoming a burden herself.

Heck, Jesus could've pulled a fishes and loaves miracle on the coins. It frankly strikes me as tailored to get obedience and wealth from people (especially those already without hope who might turn to them in desperation so that they can be exploited) rather than elevating them spiritually, much like the Biblical tale of Ananias and Sapphira (which isn't a god that strikes me as benevolent, btw, nor is Jesus destroying the fig tree for not providing figs out of season--that is existing as created--rather than performing a miracle to make figs appear).

Ironically, the Satanic Bible by LaVey got that right which surprised me. Though adding to the irony I do think the Church of Satan is pretty much a scam...though sort of in an "eyes open" way (but I don't get why people send in money as I don't see what the would-be Satanist is getting in return, even if it's just appreciating the book well people already profited from the purchase of it, or buy your own copy if yours was borrowed.)

And many say it's good to care about others and I don't deny that. My life is much richer and I think I'm a happier person for lending a hand and volunteering and being charitable, but I (unlike that widow) take care of myself first and meet my obligations before I decide what charity to hand out and what good deeds to perform. But to promote that to an extreme is to invite self-destruction, and even if people could accomplish it...well there are horror stories based on that (this quick scene as an example).

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PixieJane
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posted August 13, 2015 02:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
it us we who try to name the God and our language fails us.

This reminds of apophatic theology:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology

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PixieJane
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posted August 13, 2015 02:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
Zeus is that you?



Let's let Zeus speak for himself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_xFOmYxKYw

Btw, rap battles are an ancient tradition in more than one culture. I don't know about the Greeks but I do know it was practiced by the Scandinavians as explained here (and Thor does use the phrase "flyte it out"). I posted a comment there long ago to make sure they all had their health plans that covered multiple lightning strikes yet I have this very strange yet solid feeling that the gods loved this rap battle.

For all the crudeness those rap battles are genius that can mix the esoteric with pop culture. I bet there's some heavy Gemini at work in there somewhere.


I'm really tired right now. I'd like to say more but I'm starting to nod off...

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Lei_Kuei
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posted August 13, 2015 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei        Reply w/Quote
I hope to add more later with regards to the apparent failure of language when it comes to God/Spirituality. For I do not think such is the case. Appreciate the Apophatic theology links btw.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Omg lol… THAT Rap Battle

I have always found them pretty entertaining and clever but this episode in particularly is probably the best I have seen, not just lyrically but visually it’s also superb.

As somewhat of an Artist myself, I have a deep appreciation for the effort it takes to produce a stop-go animation sequence done using Lego and rendered to video. It’s so damn good that I wish ALL of the RB’s were done using Lego/StopGo…

And many of the witty lyrics were pure gold haha…
Thanks for sharing! Lol… I would love to have heard the illustrated RB Loki and Freyja took part in

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juniperb
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posted August 13, 2015 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb        Reply w/Quote
quote:
I hope to add more later with regards to the apparent failure of language when it comes to God/Spirituality. For I do not think such is the case

I certainly look forward to your sharing.

quote:
That's how I view the Christian vices and virtues. They're all good in balance and harmony, and all bad when not.

True and how I basically view life`s general virtues and vices.

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Partial truth~the seeds of wisdom~can be found in many places...The seeds of wisdom are contained in all scriptures ever written… especially in art, music, and poetry and, above all, in Nature.

Linda Goodman

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PixieJane
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posted August 14, 2015 01:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane        Reply w/Quote
I'm really tired right now but I thought I'd add one thing I liked about that rap battle is that they had Thor with red hair, which is correct. Of course when Natalie Portman gets mention (referencing the Thor movies) he puts on "the movie disguise" which made me laugh. (Yes, I'm aware they made Loki dress like in the movies.)

When I speak of the Scandinavian mythos (especially online) I've often got into confused conversations because while I speak from the myths others are thinking of the movies. Some don't know what to think when they were upset over one Asgardian god being black instead of white and I was like "Well they made Thor blond so why not?" (For that matter, actual gods should be able to appear any damn way they please, from a seeming helpless mouse to giant polka dot hydra, from a seemingly ordinary basket to an outright planet, but I digress.)

It's especially hard when talking about Loki because to me Loki is a trickster as opposed to a supervillain bent on world domination as in the movies. So more than once I said someone "went all Loki" meaning he'd gotten really tricky or was pulling a scam but others (especially online) think of the Marvel version and thus more of a foppish Darth Vader. I keep forgetting that when I'm referencing the myths that others are thinking of the Marvel movies. But somehow that rap battle helps me to keep it in mind.

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mirage29
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posted August 14, 2015 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29        Reply w/Quote
Your rap gods! are cute and hilarious--

Flyting-- It's like the 'Yo Mamma' jokes! LOL

Using the video as illustration...
God "is"... like the sky or background moving BEHIND all those characters.

The Characters... would be more like the mind, or mental attempt to solve what the pieces are. It's just 'the mind' arguing back and forth trying to pin down want it 'thinks'... The whole while in the background, that blue just 'exists' there as a platen for 'the remainder of all that action-action-action' to have the fun of activity. Gotta think beyond the activity... like the sky ~wild blue, peaceful, steady.
--

Going back to the paragraphs about 'giving and receiving'.... I've given a lot of thought about that in my economic and spiritual experiences (LOL). Things happen on sooo many levels, at the same time.

And Pixie, I know you're 'a giver' and understand the joy and effectualness you feel in being able to impact someone's life... I myself have Been there, and Done that. "Giving" is blessed because you already got it; 'receiving' is considered like a one-down position. It's like the 'power' remains in the hands of the giver? (aw, it's my independent streak talking here~~ ) ...... Actually, when you get down to another core of this understanding, it takes tremendous 'humility' of character to be in the position of receiving. (I guess that's why we see monks that line the streets with begging bowls... Doing it 'on purpose' as a way of Development? *heart*).

They say that you can't out-give God?... That's because He's Source. There are two ways God supplies--- either directly from Him in mysterious ways, or by the agency of people that feel moved (by spirit, or by goodness already inside them that wants to express itself in that way).

There's what happens on the 'inside' having to do with the heart and intentions put-into-outward-actions -- and the thing we observe or perceive happening from 'outside.'

Jesus used to observe the way people gave...
With the Widow's Mite story, it was the generosity-of-Heart (quality) versus the amount she gave. The Largeness of her giving could have stemmed from two kinds of Love-- One is of God, and wanting to 'worship' through the giving of something precious to her and hard to come by. Or/and it could have been her desire to feel 'part of the group' an active membership obligation-feeling.

As a member of the community, she'd 'feel' an obligation-to-give because she knows with her head that it takes funds for the 'overhead' costs of running services for meetings, utilities, etc, need to be covered. -- No matter what hobby you have, religion or philosophy it is, or is a business, it's all the practicalities of material-world things.

It says she was a 'widow'--
Now, I can imagine her emotionally trying to deal with this time in her life, and recalling times where things were more fluid for her, and she could give more with feeling of liberality. It's always a good thing to participate in the flow of money, no matter how small or large. Metaphysical laws of the universe operate there, and we have the ability to engage it.

I remember some church meetings, where the preacher had people put up their hands if they didn't have the money to give but would like to. Then people around them would hand them a dollar or whatever to place into the offering bucket.

There's something about 'what you personally hold in your own hand,' then are able to plant with intention, while "in the moment" of an energetic portal that has opened that brings strange results that can be more than you ever anticipated. (I've given in 'scary' offerings before, WITHOUT the preacher having said anything. I had 'perceived' it as I cashed my paycheck that month-- I felt guidance tell me to put $50 aside in separate envelope. I did it, and didn't think anymore about it. Stuffed it into the drawer. Then on a Wednesday night service, I felt 'prompted' to grab the envelope on the way out the door, and to place it in the offering. That night, as the preacher had prayed and the bucket was sent around, he suddenly stood up and said he perceived that there was a 'special annointing' on the offering tonight! I said outloud, 'yeah, and I came READY for it'! (He ignored me.)

Very soon afterwards, my ENTIRE life changed.... That was in the early 1990s, when I was a struggling barely-making it single-mom with a deadbeat dad/ex (who had secretly embezzled money from our business, then dumped us because he figured 'he' was the talent and could do better without us), who owed more than $25,000 in child-support (and could well-afford to pay that much, and more-- he was mad that he got caught~).

To give $50 in offering was extravagant for us. But I wanted to 'do' what I felt was God's inner-nudging me... (I won't go into the details right here, but suffice to say that the $50, turned into three separate ~$5,000 value of mind-blowing returns, within about 6 weeks time it was done, then completed by 6 months. This is a true story, to the best of my recollection.)

I've had the ability to 'sense' a few portal openings before in the past, myself. It's like astrological transits... there are times when the effort or action you apply would have the energy-force of the universal flows behind it, even-more enabling you to have the success you look for. (I used to ride a bike to school-- a lot easier to get there when the wind was at my back, rather than facing into a headwind while peddling.)

Doesn't mean you wouldn't have success if you tried-- just easier to DO when you know 'the wind' direction and timing.

You probably know about this being a creative writer, Pixie. Sometimes that 'chapter' or story will come to you and pour out almost effortlessly, in a very very short time. Other times, you 'put in the outside show or effort' by 'showing up' (if you are required to, on a desk job), OR you do it to put forth the 'message' to the universe and to your subconscious that you are 'ready' to receive the inspirational flows for the day...

(Seems wasteful in a way, to me, to 'have to' do things when you've got stern bosses standing around and saying produce, produce!, and they don't understand, that if you could 'just take a break' for those two hours in the morning, that you can accomplish 3 days-worth of work when you come back later, refreshed and processed through whatever-block that was. ...Maybe like trying to pee with people staring at you? LOL)

Doesn't mean giving money wouldn't bring an effect (except to make you poorer?) --- It helps the church pay its bills. It gives 'you'/widow the 'feeling' that she is 'part of the group'....

If there could be no judgment involved-- that the others can keep her from 'feeling shamed' for the tiny amount she gave, and instead saw her as 'equal' for giving ~something from what she had, then there would be more of a kind of 'value' to it (if not monetary).

And the issue of her 'not having enough'?? ~~ THAT perhaps, is 'The Test' of 'the group' or house or temple she belonged to. IF they 'knew' she had dire needs not-solvable through her own efforts, then it would become a matter of discernment (first), then inwardly a brotherly good-feeling of happy obligation and of good conscience (with her not having a husband, as the story called her widowed?, maybe she has kids, IDK?... not the point! I digress...) IF they had an abundance (much-more than enough) they could share from their own overflows, then perhaps 'this' condition the widow found herself in, was for THEIR own soul's 'goodness' benefit, as sentient and human beings.

So, in a way according to Jesus, she gave of the 'overflow' in her life-- from her sense of belonging to community, and also probably (poetically) her Love for the Things of God inside her.

The other members who gave big-donations got attention for amounts they already had ample to give. And sometimes, "that attention" is their reward they receive... if not energetically hooked-up to the things of God inside.

This widow's pittance got the attention of Jesus, because of the Largeness in her Heart's aura, her attitude as she gave it (when maybe she wasn't really 'expected to' because of her circumstance.... it would have been perhaps forgiven her, as it should be, like you meant, Pixie? She needed to buy something she would 'need' herself, rather than give the money, and have them 'have to' buy her that loaf of bread, or ~whatever? --- But think of it? It speaks of 'giving and receiving' on BOTH parties doesn't it?)

So again, that weighing and sifting process is there--- The 'responsible' answer takes us inside to the motivations of people, of inner-selves, and to the outside of things plainly noted. Humanity, versus tallying and deservingness based upon ~what?


ANY time that I have ever given donations, especially with churches, I make sure that the 'energy' I infuse that offering with makes that packet 'separated' unto God with special forces that will watch-over HOW my contribution is used. Sometimes you wonder if 'something fishy' is going on...? but my specially "dedicated-funds" from 'my giving' BECAME a small Light-Force that worked its way down deep into the Dark of ~whatever they were doing-- My money was 'holy'... There is NOTHING done is Secret, that is not eventually brought into Full Light. I have seen this over, and over, and over again in my dedicated life.

Even in cases where I have done only 'volunteer work' (when sometimes 'others' there were getting paid, hmmm). MY work, my diligence, 'carries an energy-signature' with it, that penetrates FAR deep-down to the core and roots of a project that has anything to do with God or spirituality, or helps people. What's close to my Heart, is close to God's. What's close to God's Heart, is close to mine.

Abundance or success comes at a price sometimes-- Sometimes it brings out 'greed' that the other is unconscious of (or even my own self), or other sticky-things having to do with flows. When I saw what happened to other people, it put a kind of worry or fear in me, which I work to overcome right now.

(For me, I think this is one way my asteroid Sedna has operated? brings other people abundance, then they are tested on whether they honor vows and promises-- and I hold other asteroids in suspect too... heh heh) 'Money' and success 'changes' people (like both my ex's!! LOL, but enough-there! Water under that bridge, way out to sea. New Beginning here, for me.).

I guess that as long as I keep MY integrity, that's all that is required... My Cosmic Alligators take care of the rest. It is a Good thing that God's mercy is WIDE. How many times do WE trespass without even realizing it... (Mercy! Mercy! Don't let me be dumb, Lord?! ohhhh. I can't change 'what I don't know'--- Give me the Grace, Lord to change my ways when they need it. Help cure and forgive my ignorances...)

O gosh, am I rambling here?... LOL


God is Good... Good is a Spirit. The moment you try to 'label it', then you've taken it into the realm where you feel that you just 'controlled it'...

In the Garden of Eden, God gave control to Adam, by having him 'label' each thing created. God-only is good, we are enhanced-units because we have a body, but this also has 'limited' our abilities... and God knows that. We're here to develop ourselves.

God Hands the basic 'controls' over to us (willpower)... To us, who are NOT always good. As humans we handle our perceptions and USE labels to do it, hopefully remaining open and thus only temporary labels for some things... We can't help having a mind, and thinking thoughts, and wanting things constructed and pinned-down and concretely explained. But once that happens?, it's like ~oops!, -- like the rap video, we can look PAST the mess, and see that the sky is still blue and flowing, and we breathe that in, in that background of our event-experiences.

Sometimes, it's all in 'how' you look or view a thing, whether you judge it to be 'labeled' as good bad -- or inbetween, or in the Zen Both'ish-ness~~ LOL! Great to be growing, isn't it?...

(music) What If God were One Of Us (Joan Osborn, lyrics) [5:19] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90P0n5AlSlA

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PixieJane
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posted August 14, 2015 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
There's something about 'what you personally hold in your own hand,' then are able to plant with intention, while "in the moment" of an energetic portal that has opened that brings strange results that can be more than you ever anticipated. (I've given in 'scary' offerings before, WITHOUT the preacher having said anything. I had 'perceived' it as I cashed my paycheck that month-- I felt guidance tell me to put $50 aside in separate envelope. I did it, and didn't think anymore about it. Stuffed it into the drawer. Then on a Wednesday night service, I felt 'prompted' to grab the envelope on the way out the door, and to place it in the offering. That night, as the preacher had prayed and the bucket was sent around, he suddenly stood up and said he perceived that there was a 'special annointing' on the offering tonight! I said outloud, 'yeah, and I came READY for it'! (He ignored me.)

This reminds me of a guy who told me he was living at the Y and rapidly running out of money while the opportunity that drew him to that city just wasn't manifesting. (He kept being brushed off though after he managed to convince the Y to give him a partial refund on some rent so he could get a bus ticket back to where he came from and got back the one who told him to come down and then avoided him like the plague got mad at him leaving, go figure.)

There was a homeless woman who was asking for money for food inside but his own funds were vanishing too fast. Still, while within he made two orders, one for the woman and he put the change from the bill he used to pay in the sack and gave it to her as he left.

He wasn't sure if he had just been played for a sucker but out of sheer boredom he decided to open the Bible in the room he was renting and it opened immediately (very first thing he saw) to Matthew 25 about what he'd done for that woman having been done to Jesus. An interesting synchronicity to say the least and he didn't feel like such a sap after.

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PixieJane
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posted August 14, 2015 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
To give $50 in offering was extravagant for us. But I wanted to 'do' what I felt was God's inner-nudging me... (I won't go into the details right here, but suffice to say that the $50, turned into three separate ~$5,000 value of mind-blowing returns, within about 6 weeks time it was done, then completed by 6 months. This is a true story, to the best of my recollection.)

Interesting. But I wonder how it affects it to do so EXPECTING to be rewarded? Plenty of Christians (and others) brag of giving out charity and getting so much back, in which case it's not selfless or loving, it's self-serving, which I'd think would defeat the point (unless the point is to have faith in God to give you prizes rather than being loving to your neighbor).

Of course con-artists of various sorts, from televangelists to street people, love to say things like that in order to get people to give, not only out of some guilt that they've nurtured in them (or at least exploited) but also under the belief that they'll miss out on something wonderful if they don't. And some of the results are rather painful rather than rewarding to the givers.

Even when it doesn't hurt the giver it just comes off wrong to me. Back when I was a runaway I was small and a girl so one of the things I was told to do was panhandle, and we were given lessons on how to do it. One of the tricks was to pretend that we were silently praying to God for help...and it works wonders. From a purely pragmatic perspective those who gave probably felt better about themselves so we were selling them something good and yet I, who wasn't even a Christian, just couldn't bring myself to make a habit of that because it was just too deceitful (though others did and it was a real money maker).

And keep in mind I was in a survival sitch, a conscience is a luxury then that gets muted, as it was for me. People who glibly say they'd never sell their bodies or steal or beg when they've never been in that sitch (where there's no end in sight) don't really know, and in all likelihood are wrong about what they'd do. Even ardent pacifists can be provoked into killing if you threaten them or loved ones as survival kicks in overcoming (for the moment) conscience.

Yet despite that I just didn't like pretend to be praying to a god I didn't believe in despite that it made money, which in retrospect is odd that I didn't mind ripping off pizza companies for a free pizza or stealing from stores (though even as a thief I'd never steal something I thought could mean something personal, probably because of how I felt about my skateboard giving me an understanding of how the memories and sentiments can never be replaced by simply replacing the item so by stealing something personal you were stealing a piece of a person's heart and soul as much as something material and therefore I couldn't do it even in the name of survival).

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PixieJane
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posted August 15, 2015 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
Abundance or success comes at a price sometimes-- Sometimes it brings out 'greed' that the other is unconscious of (or even my own self), or other sticky-things having to do with flows. When I saw what happened to other people, it put a kind of worry or fear in me, which I work to overcome right now.

I've always liked the saying that a cage of gold is still a cage (also borrow gold, borrow chains, an ancient Roman saying that shows a better understanding about credit than many living today apparently do) which means that when people become wage slaves to keep up their luxuries (or even just with the Jones), living miserable lives, then that money is enslaving them rather than freeing them.

That also goes into the wage slavery you mentioned, and I couldn't work in a corporate office because of that. They take from the salary over "water cooler talk" and other things that are necessary for an efficient office to work together (and they know it given how many of them force their employees to attend holiday celebrations and even workshops whether they want to or not--I even got shanghaied into setting up for a Halloween party because of a friend of mine who worked in such an office).

And it never ceases to amaze me how many managers complain over the spineless suckups they have, and I've yet to hear one respond in any way other than shock when I point out the abuses those wage slaves put up with and ask who else but a spineless suck up (or desperate for their big salary, even if they spend a lot of it on keeping up and seeing a psychiatrist over the misery they endure) would tolerate their crap?

It also makes one more vulnerable because you've got more than can be taken away (OTOH, one reason the US has so many repeat convicts is that when released they can't get much of anything so have nothing to lose, not even hope, and may be goaded by pure survival as much as bitterness, which is why I don't like convicts--especially those locked up for stupid reasons like pot or because Mammon wills it due to our privatized prisons that NEED prisoners for profits--being "punished forever" because that ultimately makes society less safe for all of us).

I think I've escaped this but there are times I'm wistful about the freedom I used to have when I could carry everything I owned and just pick up and move whenever I wanted. Some people are homeless by choice because to them it's freedom and I can understand that. Since you like the music videos, here's a relevant one:
http://youtu.be/Qq9PxuAsiR4?t=1m19s

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PixieJane
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posted August 15, 2015 12:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
ANY time that I have ever given donations, especially with churches, I make sure that the 'energy' I infuse that offering with makes that packet 'separated' unto God with special forces that will watch-over HOW my contribution is used. Sometimes you wonder if 'something fishy' is going on...? but my specially "dedicated-funds" from 'my giving' BECAME a small Light-Force that worked its way down deep into the Dark of ~whatever they were doing-- My money was 'holy'... There is NOTHING done is Secret, that is not eventually brought into Full Light. I have seen this over, and over, and over again in my dedicated life.

Even in cases where I have done only 'volunteer work' (when sometimes 'others' there were getting paid, hmmm). MY work, my diligence, 'carries an energy-signature' with it, that penetrates FAR deep-down to the core and roots of a project that has anything to do with God or spirituality, or helps people. What's close to my Heart, is close to God's. What's close to God's Heart, is close to mine.


This reminds me of a place I volunteered. Long story short some girl scout juniors were being made to serve the homeless at a food bank and this worried me because of the homeless I'd been around when I was homeless child myself (among other places).

However, this was different. I was around desperadoes who for whatever reasons (age, fugitive from the law, extremely mentally ill, etc) couldn't access services. Those who came here could so they weren't like starving rats. They also knew to be on their best behavior or they'd be thrown out. All in all I came to like to many who came for help, homeless and otherwise, but learned it was some of the helpers who needed to be watched instead.

One was a nasty preacher with a sadistic streak and he also pulled scams. The food bank very foolishly placed the account books in his hands (he's a preacher so most thought he could be trusted, which is why so many scam artists and perverts long to put on the cloth!). After he used the program to secure some other grants he then embezzled them into they were forced to shut down. It's a long and sad story, and I can share more beside, but suffice to say he was scum.

The one good thing I can say about his actions (but not intentions) is that he was the one who manipulated the girl scouts (among others, including his own church) to do the work (while he got the credit and the funds for it, essentially using what we did to justify the grants he was applying for which he got, one of which he bought a new car with despite that it was to go to helping the homeless, though I'm sure he came up with some excuse to justify it as an expense) which in turn got me who wanted to be sure the girl scouts weren't endangered (and then realizing most of the people who came for help weren't the ones I needed to be worried about). And I also enjoyed the company, be it of other volunteers (though some were doing community service, I had to laugh as one was there over pot charges and she'd found new customers for her to sell pot to, thus aiding the illegal biz she was doing community service over! ) and those who came for help, and I had skills I was able to put to good use.

Most of the homeless didn't like the preacher for his obvious contempt of them if nothing else (he said outright that sin led them to their poverty, perhaps he was of Prosperity Theology but given his perfidious nature I'm guessing he just found making people feel bad useful for both his pleasure and his manipulations). Some wanted to start a Bible study group but the preacher scoffed at them (though they could come to his church if they could travel that far but they didn't like him nor how he and his treated them).

So I printed up flyers for their Bible study and went around to churches who normally chased the homeless out but were willing to give free Bibles, and essentially I made that Bible study happen. They were so grateful that they insist I come to the first one so I did. And they were all very pleasant. But more than one got very curious what denomination I was and I finally said I was agnostic and couldn't really be considered a Christian. This shocked them but they all agreed that "by your fruits you shall know them" and made me an "honorary Christian" while the preacher was a Pharisee and continued to associate with me showing goodwill while shunning the "false preacher."

So some people at least really can sense the energy behind the giving.

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PixieJane
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posted August 15, 2015 12:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
(music) What If God were One Of Us (Joan Osborn, lyrics) [5:19] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90P0n5AlSlA

This is actually the first time I've heard this song! Silly me, I should've looked it up since one of my favorite songs (that I should've known was a parody) since I was a kid was What If God Smoked Cannabis?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-P6SQbhgg0

I have to stop for awhile now. I want to comment about the "blue sky" bit later.

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mirage29
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posted August 15, 2015 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29        Reply w/Quote
What if God smoked cannabis?

Loved it!....

GOD. GOD, Pixie, is the Author of "High"...

'High' wouldn't be able to exist if God was not real. The fact that God is real makes High possible.

I LMAO watching the cannabis-Jesus... Can you imagine Jesus partaking, then passing it around and saying "Smoke this in remembrance of me?" O! I Love it!!

When I was in college, the Jesus-Freaks would approach saying, "I used to get high on drugs, now I get high on the Lord!"

Substitute the words?! Let HIM under your skin??? O LOL!!!

(music) Hey Jude (The Beatles, lyrics) [7:00] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI40WBGPAso

PJ--- edit .... omg, I didn't "see" all the other posts you wrote under my reply!!!! I am in a rush to go for bus right now.... but I will come back later this evening to READ all your words!!! e/152p

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Lei_Kuei
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posted August 15, 2015 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei        Reply w/Quote
-.

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PixieJane
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posted August 17, 2015 12:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:

Using the video as illustration...
God "is"... like the sky or background moving BEHIND all those characters.

The Characters... would be more like the mind, or mental attempt to solve what the pieces are. It's just 'the mind' arguing back and forth trying to pin down want it 'thinks'... The whole while in the background, that blue just 'exists' there as a platen for 'the remainder of all that action-action-action' to have the fun of activity. Gotta think beyond the activity... like the sky ~wild blue, peaceful, steady.
--


I thought it worth repeating, I had a vision of Freya at 15 that both saved and changed my life, and though I think many factors were involved (and I have reason to think I touched something in the Collective Unconscious and/or it touched me) one was I found out that was when Granny had a nightmare of me and prayed to Jesus until she felt I was better, and it was right about the same time, possibly the exact moment.

The question is why Freya when she prayed to Jesus? And I can come up with various reasons, including astrological, yet what it boils down to is that I needed Freya who was independent, a survivor, a charmer, and a fighter, as I had to be. Depending on a parent (or any authority figure, or "let go and let God...") wasn't something I could or should do at that time as that way lay disaster so I wasn't to seek to be a child but grow up, by the will of the Goddess. I learned not to trust the Christian church as a general rule whereas I knew almost nothing of Freya at the time, though I do recall saying in a class a couple years earlier that I understood the grim view that the gods and warriors that died at Ragnarok would die as themselves rather than live as slaves (and also knew they were self-sacrificing and good, after all if you're "good" simply to escape hellfire then you're not really good, just self-serving and acting in fear!), and that was the kind of fire I needed. In short, Jesus wasn't what I needed, but rather Freya, who was also easier for me to understand, therefore Granny's Jesus became my Freya (both Jesus and Freya being masks and manifestations of the same Blue Sky so to speak), and a manifestation of my granny's love.

And after we figured this out together (not all of it, but connecting her prayer to my vision of Freya) years after the incident I asked her if she'd visit me in my heaven (since mine was less exclusive than hers) and she said I'd see my trappings and she'd see hers but we'd still be together, in love (under the same blue sky).

I don't know if I'm explaining it well. I could easily turn this into an essay but I'm constrained by time and tired out by real life, so I hope it's not necessary.

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PixieJane
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posted August 17, 2015 12:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane        Reply w/Quote
If millions hadn't been terrorized, tortured (some of the most vile ways used as times, like one method to cook eyeballs in their sockets which was said to be practiced by one Inquisition as a penalty for "heresy," heresy meaning "thought free from the church"), slaughtered, raped, enslaved, and essentially treated as horribly as the damned are said to be treated then most major religions (particularly Islam and Christianity) would not be major religions today. It is because of evil done to our ancestors that society claims to follow a god in whose name it was done in once upon a time. (See also Stockholm Syndrome here.)

I'm not pointing this out to say these religions are evil (since the Enlightenment has led to serious changes in the developed world), but rather ask a question that I think is part of the paradox of "God is good": if you accept that say Christianity or Islam is the one true religion, then isn't this evil for the greater good then? And isn't more evil (inquisitions, beating and executing gays, terror tactics, or say what the President was doing in Escape from LA) justified to save even more souls in the long run?

After all, through the vile suffering of savages long ago people today can know eternal bliss after death as recent ancestors, people today, and likely descendants are now saved through the One True Religion (whatever version of whichever one that happens to be). In which case, even evil serves the good. But I bet that's something most would rather not think about, even those who do fervently believe that they follow the One True Religion.

Without evil there could be no good
So it must be good to be evil sometimes

--Satan, Up There (actually from the South Park movie).

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Lei_Kuei
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posted August 17, 2015 07:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei        Reply w/Quote
-

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PixieJane
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posted August 17, 2015 07:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane        Reply w/Quote
^^

And calls for a vid by Voltaire, God Thinks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-PX2Z4r-e4

Note that by what "God thinks" the singer is saying what others say God thinks and that we can't truly know (and perhaps the exploration of God is an exploration of ourselves, from the very best to the very worst).

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mirage29
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posted August 17, 2015 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29        Reply w/Quote
I read almost all now, and will comment soon ....
PJ, what was your Grannie's nightmare-dream?

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PixieJane
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posted August 18, 2015 12:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
PJ, what was your Grannie's nightmare-dream?

She woke up around midnight (the right time) in June (the right month) and dreamed I was in my room there (*) choking to death and gagging and showing no response and nothing she did could help. She woke up in a panic and a feeling I was in mortal danger. (*This room belonged to Granny as a child, and then Mom, and then me when I was over.)

She prayed for a long time until she felt better, and it sounds long enough that I could've had my entire vision while she was doing so (or it could've sparked it). As tired as she instantly was maybe she poured some of herself into me.

She called the next day but Mom said I didn't want to talk to her which she thought strange yet we're hundreds of miles away and the courts had spoken: I belonged to my mother, and she had every right to keep me from Granny.

After I came back from the streets Mom said Granny hadn't called at all (no one knew I was a runaway) and I foolishly believed her. Of course in retrospect it's easy to see what would happen (heck, she even said about as much anyway without explaining the details), she could lose her child support if I wasn't living at home, so no one could know. If Granny knew she'd call everyone for help and Dad's family would know which would mean Dad would know and try to get out of child support. So Mom couldn't let Granny know I was missing.

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Lei_Kuei
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posted August 18, 2015 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei        Reply w/Quote
Nice video Pix, I expect Voltaire the French philosopher would be pleased to see his pseudo-name put to good use

^^Touch of irony there I feel…

------------------
You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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