posted August 18, 2015 06:12 PM            

Soooo much material here! I had printed out some responses, and penciled some remarks in the margins. I may break things down into separated posts, like you do, PJ.

PJ, Friday, August 14, 2015, 11:38pm
About the guy who moved and was running out of money, who went back to his town and they avoided him.

... Dr Phil might call something like that "tuition"... Must quickly forgive self when 'ventures turn a bit-costly like that. Don't hang on to losses! It's part of what we learn to handle in the School of Hard Knocks.

But actually, the guy showed the Universe (and his crowd) that he was 'willing' to pursue whatever opportunity could be there for him. The Universe loves symbolic gestures and actions. ... I'm glad he got refunded some money by that Y (that was decent of them). All experience is valuable for learning, growing, and making progress in our lives. I like the TD Jakes sermon, 'Nothing you do is wasted.'

I recall several times when pastors have warned congregations about acting on the words (prophetic) of another person-- It could be pretty rare that 'God' would tell someone-else something major and life-changing about you and your life, that He[/she/GOD] has not already 'introduced' into your thoughts and imaginations before, in some way. One of the things prophets do is to confirm (validate) what's inside (or the condition) so that it strengthens it, or catalyzes it (spark), or helps correct what you may be doing to get in your own way of things so that you can progress.

STORY...
I was going to leave above-paragraph, when I began to recall something pretty-spectacular told to me by a prophet, warning me (just before the USA 9-11 hit) in 2001. I think it was around May of that year.
.... A young man I had been talking to went to a Christian's Business breakfast meeting, when a prophet called him out, described me to a T, and told him (to tell me that) The Holy Spirit wanted to warn me of a catastrophe that was about to hit my life-- I would think that I was going to die, but I would 'survive' it-- worse-for-wear, but that indeed I WOULD get through the other side of this ordeal.
... PJ, My ex had planned something that took me out economically, right then, without my knowing it until maybe another 6 weeks later. As you know from my other posts, I had runaway to a series of new places (stalk) until I could get my head together for a new-start in life. I had been so frightened.
... I lost 2/3rds of my income (no fault of my own), and became homeless and lived through that. Could not do shelters (got victimized), and wound up living on the streets (metal shed) for many months (hiding and hiding). I was desperately alone, and had some ptsd-type things going on with me besides.
... This took me down to the worst places outside and in, as I know well that you understand. I maintained my integrity, throughout.
... At one point when I thought 'this is it!', the words of that prophet came back into me-- and it gave me STRENGTH. God had arranged for me to know, and to know that I would Live.... live THROUGH it.
... The things that happened to me, in the span of about eleven or twelve years afterwards (trying to get help from 'the system') were 'sinister' and unfair (test of my values-- I refused to 'commit fraud' against the govt and *they* ensured that I wouldn't be helped by anyone afterwards, nasty... but that, is the past. -- clearing the slate).
~~ When I began my interest in astrology, coupled with a Love for God, the study and its application helped me turn my mind and my life around.
/endStory

About the individual who wondered if he was being played when he bought that homeless woman a meal (in spite of the fact that his own funds were vanishing), and he gained confirmation of his 'doing good' when he opens the bible to Matthew 25.... Beautiful Synchronicity.

Matthew 25:40 Whatsoever you do to or for 'the least', you do to and for 'Me.' -- Jesus

I am sooo happy that happened for him, so cool! Inner-rewards count too.

posted August 19, 2015 11:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
I saw this earlier when doing some research into the notion of system anomalies and the Paradox like nature of reality: Gods how I laughed…! Anyone here an INFJ? (besides myself that is)

...........

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As you know I am an INFJ. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum27/HTML/000363.html

As for god(s);
UGH..............
I have pretty much abandoned things considered divine and or spiritual.
Experiences of the past few years have left me believing in pretty much nothing more but me/myself/and I.
I just do not give a flying fig any longer for the most part.

posted August 20, 2015 07:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
I’m sorry you experienced such hardships Mirage. But from my POV you should take All the credit for getting through that ordeal, your will, your strength, your resolve <3 Humans are amazing!
. . . .
^^I feel the point of my Story is, much like my friend… I trust only in myself/people/humans to have my back when needed, and never allow some unknowable force of the Universe to take credit for the best aspects and lessons of our lives.

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Thanks L_K ... It's the 'trusting people' part that I have had problems with in the past. Getting taken/being-used by the human beings who were the closest to me. I guess I've sucked at protecting myself. You were VERY lucky to have had that guy watching your back. That's been something missing in my life. It's like I've had to take the full brunt of everything that others get exempt from.... You were quite fortunate, getting to attend the 'meetings' as you have.

If I were to "rationalize" this-- I've been hurt a whole lot in my life. When you've been hurt enough in your life, you need a way to make those kind of abuses and hurtful actions on their parts 'okay'... After you've absorbed too much it can make you sick if you don't have a way to funnel or process away the result of bad or unfair treatment. ...

*sigh* Haven't been feeling well, and I know it's that I try to handle feelings by stuffing them. I know that others 'are upset' and so I try to keep that kind of compassion active. If I didn't have God to talk to, (and LL to come post here, or search for songs to meld with), I would have imploded or something....

I did the Jung-Test, Lexxi. (Thanks)
I scored as an ENFJ--

posted August 21, 2015 05:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
If you haven’t read such already, I feel you might really enjoy “Conversations with God” by N.D Walsch… I have only read the first of his conversation series yet I really enjoyed it.

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I know someone who's getting a lot out of reading this book. From what (I think) he's said, though, my friend discerns that it's about attachment and detaching in order to sense spirit... (He says it better!)

Before someone dies, or when something has gone horribly wrong, there's "that moment" when the person detaches from the situ and 'reaches' somewhere within.

That within-place is a spot that is in two-places at once. You're instantly pulled-out of drama for a suspending moment, and in a liminal place. IN that liminal place is the calm or where a center-point is. ....

This place is pregnant with one-more beyond it, IF the thought manages to identify simultaneously TO you and in you, separately.
... I'm not spiritually or psychically trained, but I wonder if there's a spot or a Point from that Noticing-Spot, where you connect and can suddenly find yourself engulfed with a warmth or presence or radiance-- OR be in a very very smooth expanse-plane where there IS complete No-drama present.

(I've tapped into some of that.... but I wonder if that is something that "no-religion" or a "non-religion" can identify in any way? ... It has to exist, because I experienced it to exist. It has an identifying 'self-mark' of sorts even if it is Not. (Just trying to perhaps clumsily grasp at words.) )

Enough! ~Going on......

quote:

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When you say:If I didn’t have God to talk to? Do you mean one's inner-dialogue?[/i]

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L_K... How could I resist ____ ??! *grin*

Humorously, do you mean Talking to one's self like this?
(clip) Teyve, 'On The Other Hand' (Fiddler on Roof) [1:25] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWGtjqv19ZA

Or, a maybe a one-side convo with God?....
(clip) Teyva Talks To God (Fiddler On The Roof) [2:53] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckJEYoKEUoE

(music) If I Were A Rich Man (Fiddler On The Roof, lyrics) [5:20] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl7BVr36bbs

quote:

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Sometimes our choices can be very limiting, and making the best of a bad situation is about all we can hope for. The trick is… trying to minimize the possibility of being in that situation by maximizing ones own Power to make the best choices to where neither Luck nor God is the deciding factor in one's Fate.

^^Easier said than done right?

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{{laughing... and agreeing}}

quote:

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Would you be willing to trade your belief in a God who you perhaps hope has your back in the darkest of days… for a trusted friend (such as in my case… the Scorpio “Dark Night”) to watch your back during those same instances?

Is my friend more powerful than God in his efforts to protect me? And if so… why should I ever consider trading my Scorpio badass for the God of any religion?

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quote:

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… but GOD by design can in actuality never choose to protect me in my darkest hour…. since this will violate any notion of Freewill.

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So depressing... I need a 'badass' in my life, yes. But uh, can I opt for the Zen-answer of "Both?" Why must those two choices be mutually-exclusive? Can you only have one, or the other, and not both?....

I've lived a while now (60+), and have been through times of completely 'dropping' that God exists at all, while I trudged the mundane life. There have been times where I was tight-wound and driven for pursuit of God. There has to be more balance. Not totally neglecting existence of God or anything beyond self, nor being too 'heavenly minded' where not earthly available to live the life that was given to live.

(Actually, I have a nature and preference for throwing the balance of things into a little-more driven side?, but that's both a fault when it's too much. I've cultivated a default-setting that leans more into God, than not-God. ... And when I get too-tight being like that, there's a point where I find I got attached, without realizing it-- because it loses a 'flow' sense when that happens.) ahhhhh. A lot of fun trying to describe these things here...?

Goes back to Pixie's Blue-Sky video... All that "stuff", all those voices and convos, and actions? That's "stuff"... A noisy head, a noisy mind, means you get attached TO the matter and you have 'lost' the perception. Blue-sky perception. The solution is 'past' the problem...

For now, we see through a glass, darkly; but then, ... face to face 1 Cor 13

(clip) Finger Scene (Patch Adams) [2:31] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBDgLL2de_c

Just for fun, too .... When you know the right question to ask, the answer is always present and apparent?!

posted August 21, 2015 05:37 PM            

Sry, I edited my first post about 15mins or so afterwards lol

Didn't know if you saw the latter part... guess you did!

Currently have some work to do, back later

posted August 21, 2015 05:57 PM            

IF I see that you had changed your quote, then I will edit-change it in MY postings, okay?

I think that for some of us, we need that time to let stuff breathe a little....

posted August 22, 2015 12:03 AM            

Whenever something evolves, something else evolves to eat it. Sometimes this even helps with the process like the herbivore that eats an apple and then poops out the seeds (which are very tough) into manure to help another apple tree grow. 'Course something eats that herbivore and on up the ladder. Even things that aren't evolved but rather created seems to kick start nature into creating something new like plastic eating microbes (btw, if that algae ever adapts to land and becomes a common mold then our society as it currently exists may be over!).

Now in my view the divine is inherent within nature rather than separate from it and it seeks balance, death is just another form of change that allows for growth. (This means the divine, from my perspective, is impersonal and somewhat amoral from a human perspective given that the human perspective measures things in seconds, months, and years while the divine perspective measures things in eons, that is an inhumanly long view which is what makes it impersonal and amoral at best from our subjective perspective.) I also believe that there's a "spiritual layer" that can be "shaped" with both the good and bad (that is our thoughts and beliefs create shapes and patterns much like how flowing rivers create patterns) but that's separate from THE divine (as much as anything is separate).

But the idea to play with: people tend to look at what is good for us and attribute that to God/dess, but why not the inherent entropy? That is focus on the entropy itself as God/dess believing that existence is a cancer or disease that God/dess is trying to eradicate and that by joining with that God/dess to engage in destruction they attune to it and thus escape the destruction of All That Is so that only the divine is left of which the followers became divine by following in Its plan? ( Neverwhere Land could be a holy text of sorts for them.)

Damn, this idea intrigues me so much that I'm incorporating it into a cyberpunk fic of mine! People so abused by parents and system that they embrace it, perhaps due to a cybernetic implant that allows for greater adrenal release but the endorphins would (as likely in this case) activate the parts of the brain involved in visions and ego (and thus tribalistic cults) and hooked on the endorphins they come hooked on the adrenaline and thus rage (and too much adrenaline that can't break down also creates depression, one reason I advise people under stress to get plenty of exercise). (ETA: so it's done, their cult is called the Nihil Mystics, led by Father Null.)

And come to think of it this could fit in nicely with the far future scifi I've got on a back burner as well given how many worlds were wiped out with but a handful of survivors (just looking for a way to escape the planet they're stranded on), in fact the militaries of that far future scifi already tried to use such technology for better and more patriotic soldiers only to find it backfiring on them when the soldiers saw their own government as the enemy (which was actually true from a certain perspective, especially as they rarely told the truth about such implants other than "faster reflexes, giving you the edge to survive").

posted August 22, 2015 12:00 PM            

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If one considers the Bible an authoritative source (and after all, that's where the idea of Christian heaven comes from) then you will find little to be desiring about the place called heaven unless you wish to become a mindless soul in a utopian world similar to the world of the Borg as presented by the Star Trek series. How many Christians realize that heaven is a 1500 mile cube city, or that violence and horror occurs from there, and that its inhabitants have little freedom of expression?

The source of my interpretation comes not from me but from the Bible and from one of the worlds best-known scholars and an authority on the New Testament: Bruce M. Metzger. He has taught for many years at Princeton Theological Seminary, the author of over 35 books and the Chairman of the NRSV Translation Committee. My only contribution is the comparison of the descriptions of heaven with the Borg from the Star Trek series

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posted August 22, 2015 12:56 PM            

quote:

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Now in my view the divine is inherent within nature rather than separate from it and it seeks balance, death is just another form of change that allows for growth.

(This means the divine, from my perspective, is impersonal and somewhat amoral from a human perspective given that the human perspective measures things in seconds, months, and years while the divine perspective measures things in eons, that is an inhumanly long view which is what makes it impersonal and amoral at best from our subjective perspective.)

I also believe that there's a "spiritual layer" that can be "shaped" with both the good and bad (that is our thoughts and beliefs create shapes and patterns much like how flowing rivers create patterns) but that's separate from THE divine (as much as anything is separate).

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I have a fair idea of what you are saying here, but if you could clear up two things it will help better frame a reply I had in mind.

It’s just that it appears to me that you have divided the Universe into two separate instances… In the Spiritual layer you place what exactly? All transient patterns of Organic life and consciousness or something else…

And on the other Layer…. the “Divine”… all that which is essentially everlasting/amoral & Inorganic?

A Libran Universe…?

- edit, lol I meant amoral not immoral

posted August 22, 2015 08:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
I have a fair idea of what you are saying here, but if you could clear up two things it will help better frame a reply I had in mind.

It’s just that it appears to me that you have divided the Universe into two separate instances… In the Spiritual layer you place what exactly? All transient patterns of Organic life and consciousness or something else…

And on the other Layer…. the “Divine”… all that which is essentially everlasting/amoral & Inorganic?

A Libran Universe…?

- edit, lol I meant amoral not immoral

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Roughly put (language isn't equipped to deal with this and the words I could use would be grossly misunderstood by others who think of those same words in completely different ways and hence useless), the Divine is a Universal Mind. And I mean UNIVERSAL. Infinite. It's beyond human comprehension. It is not human and does not have human sensibilities as that is very limited in scope, and humanity's mind is closer to that of the ant (and the ant to us) than humanity to the Divine. It cannot be anthropomorphized (or it can but you'll lose sight of the forest by focusing on a single tree).

The Divine is in everything, body and mind. and working through our limited minds we as individuals and collectively radiate our thoughts and collective unconsciousness which creates the Archetypes. This are tiny slices of the divine, be it Jesus, Jehovah, Zeus, Thor, Freya, and what have you (and also the reason astrology works). Even people who never existed but were believed to can create impressions on the astral, mental, spiritual. (Define astral, mental, spiritual? There are entire books, even libraries, on that. And they don't agree with each other.) Perhaps the closest to Pure Divine (besides the Yin-yang) is the Tree, be it the World Tree of shamans, Yggdrasil which I've touched, or the Kabbalistic Tree of Life which includes the evil as well as the good, death as well as life, the subconscious and supraconscious (supraconscious as I mean it is explained here), and yet that's still trying to create something of a 3D module of something that is beyond dimensions where all the different facets flow into one another and are part of one another.

posted August 22, 2015 08:47 PM            

Or even this:

Because some people feel like reacting this way:

Btw, I did know someone jailed for attacking someone who had told her that she was raped because of stuff she'd done in another life and that everything happens for a reason so it's a serious warning. (She said that happened shortly before coming to the PTSD support group I used to attend, I wonder if the judge mandated therapy of some sort?)

posted August 23, 2015 12:51 AM            

I'll try to come back tomorrow later afternoon (if rm isn't on computer).

posted August 23, 2015 09:18 AM            

quote:

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Roughly put (language isn't equipped to deal with this and the words I could use would be grossly misunderstood by others who think of those same words in completely different ways and hence useless), the Divine is a Universal Mind. And I mean UNIVERSAL. Infinite. It's beyond human comprehension. It is not human and does not have human sensibilities as that is very limited in scope, and humanity's mind is closer to that of the ant (and the ant to us) than humanity to the Divine

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Very nicely worded. I used "language fails us" in my blunt aquarian way .

Early on, your point of "grossly misunderstood by others who think of those same words in completely different ways and hence useless)", became clear and I thought it better to watch the thread unfold than participate.

Yet, I liked your post very much and wanted to comment.

Jesus and Freya from same sky / forest. Yes, I believe that.