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Author Topic:   Fascinating story of George Price
PixieJane
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posted September 19, 2016 02:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just read this and thought I'd share (and it would help me find it easy again later, I'm thinking of studying his life from an astrological perspective when I have the time). He was a scientist that would come to study altruism in evolution (though I think Peter Kropotkin was way ahead of him in that regard).

He'd find Jesus and it's an interesting story to me. The complicated version that they give here is...complicated. Don't expect it to be all fuzzy feelgood. But I became wholly engrossed in his experience.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/earth/story/20160914-the-man-who-gave-himself-away

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mirage29
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posted September 19, 2016 07:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_R._Price

Spent some time looking over the various charts. He was born a few hours after a Full Moon Eclipse, with Chiron connection.

{{I won't go into the delineation right now... (pushing through to communicate with too many sonics in 'hood today).}}

Born October 6, 1922
I'd say Manhattan (or New York City), NY

I'd say early morning hours ascendant.

1966 thyroid cancer, complications surgical removal.

Relo to the UK month of November 1967

Conversion experience daytime
Saturday, June 6, 1970

Depression during Christmas 1974

Contacted and started seeing a psychiatrist...
found/Suicided Monday January 6, 1975 Aged 52.

Jan 6 is significant... Epiphany, Day of the Magi visit to the Christ Child. Signifies end of Christmas season.

He was having significant transits that day too.

It's interesting to read wiki and the article you posted, PJ.

And it's interesting to see the 'slants' to the stories...
and (?CYA) reasons they 'supposed' for behaviors, and his death.

Loved the transits at his conversion!
Also, noticed 4 Libra to be sensitive in his chart... among other trigger-points too.

Will be a juicy chart to get into.

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PixieJane
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posted September 19, 2016 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for pointing that out.

I don't know when I'll have time to dive into his chart and transits, but it's something I'm interested in.

Thought I'd throw a response to this in the BBC article out there:

quote:
Altruism has always been a bit of a problem. Every altruist has their own motives, of course – some are emotional, responding to fellow humans in desperate straits, while others are more rational, thinking about the kind of society they'd like to live in and acting accordingly. Does that imply a level of self-interest? Even if it did, it shouldn't undo the goodness of altruism, and yet people can be deeply suspicious of those who apparently willingly put others' interests before their own. Selfless acts often attract accusations of hidden selfishness, suggesting they're not really altruistic at all.

I actually used to think the universe is "inherently good." My reasoning was based on my own internal observations. When I was sad or upset, sharing it made it less. And yet when I was happy, joyous, or laughing, then sharing made it more of the same. I even preferred to see comedies with others because I knew it would make it all the the more funny by sharing the experience. Furthermore, I could share in the happiness and joy of others. What this meant to me is that I -- and I thought most people -- were wired so that we'd be driven to help each other out of our hard times so that we could get back to making each other happy by sharing our own personal joys, and just as sharing lessened pain, so did sharing increase joy and happiness. You can call it enlightened selfishness, but I prefer selfish selflessness because I just love paradox (but to me paradox doesn't mean "does not compute" but rather seeing beyond the human lens of understanding).

I realized later that this is not normal, just as it's not normal to automatically take pleasure in the suffering of others or feel pain at the happiness of others (but this orientation also exists). And with that realization I ceased to believe that life was inherently good. (Not that life was inherently bad either.)

That is, when I believed we as a species were wired to gain selfish benefits out of selflessness then I thought there was some mystic force that had a hand in that, an attribute of God/dess that transcended all that was ultimately Good, and that Goodness was inside all of us, our True Selves beneath the survival instincts that gave us fear, anger, greed, and hate.

I'm tired right now so I can't articulate it better than that, but I'll probably try again later. To me it's silly to say that true altruism means one person must suffer completely and if there's any personal benefit from it then it's pure selfishness that negates altruism (whereas I'd say if we were forced to suffer for others then THAT is the sign of a sadistic entity/universe). I can't even work my head around that concept right now, but apparently many people do think that for some reason. I hope I can explain it better when I have a clearer head (and how such a concept may have affected Price, though I don't think it had much of anything to do with his suicide, at least not directly).

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Randall
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posted September 20, 2016 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for sharing it.

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Lei_Kuei
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posted September 21, 2016 08:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don’t have a whole lot to add at the moment in terms of my own thoughts on the Subject, but I will share the following….

In reading the BBC article with reference to elements of George’s life, I was immediately reminded of this parable that I heard in the Anime “Fruits Basket”…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkCRaRqAEMk

^^You can also watch a version of it here (and its in Episode 11 of the Anime) but that YT clip is cut before Momiji finishes adding in his two cents… though at the bottom of this post… I have transcribed what he says in the Anime.

The Most Foolish Traveler in The World [Fruits Basket]

Once upon a time,

There was this foolish traveler who had gone on a journey. Why was he foolish?

Well because he was fooled by everyone he'd met.

Everywhere he went people made up all kinds of sad stories to tell him, and the traveler fell for every one of them.

Pretty soon his money, his clothes, even his shoes have been cheated away from him, but the foolish traveler was always glad to help and he always told people the same thing; I wish you happiness.

But by this point, the traveler was completely naked and nothing left to cover himself he decided to leave the main road and travel through the dense forest where no one can see him.

But soon he was discovered by the goblins that lived in the woods.

The goblins wanted to eat the traveler's body, so they begged and pleaded and used kind words to try and trick him.

Of course, the traveler was fooled.

First, he let the goblins eat one of his legs, then an arm, then more and more.

After it was over all the traveler had left was his head.

He'd even given his eyes away to the last of the goblins.

And as the last goblin was eating the traveler's eyes, he turned and said, "Thank you, traveler. In return I leave you this present."

All the goblin left was this piece of paper with the word fool written on it.

The traveler couldn't see it, he didn't know what it was.

Even so, tears began to float out of his face.

"Thank you," he said, "This is the first present anyone's ever given me, I'm so happy!"

Even without his eyes, he cried with tears of joy.

Then, the traveler died, the smile still on his face.

The End

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Here is what Momiji says afterwards to his Two (Three counting Shigure) Friends though he is only directly talking to Yuki & Kyo Sohma.

quote:
Momiji:…Loss… Hardship, things like that… you can’t only focus on them….
The Traveller didn’t, he never thought about his own troubles at all.

I imagine that it probably does sound foolish to some people, but not to me…
I don’t think he is foolish at all… even though other people thought he was being tricked?

I don’t think he was… I think he done exactly what he wanted to do…
I think, more than anything… He just wanted to make other people happy…
What about you Yuki… Kyo? What do you think? Really… is that foolish?
When you close your eyes and think about it… is that what it is?


-=-=-=-=-=--=-==

Enjoyed the read btw (George had an Intriguing Adventure) & thanks for sharing.


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PixieJane
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posted September 21, 2016 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^^

If it works...

There are some who find it the most satisfying to live on the streets in constant poverty, because they feel free to enjoy what life really has to offer rather than endless consumerism, which they see as a cage made of gold (and a cage made of gold is still a cage). I say that about people who are content to get by being stoned often and things like that. As long as they're happy and they're not maliciously screwing others over then I say more power to them.

And all in all, to die happy weeping tears of joy does sound like one of the better ways to die.

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PixieJane
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posted September 21, 2016 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
I'm tired right now so I can't articulate it better than that, but I'll probably try again later. To me it's silly to say that true altruism means one person must suffer completely and if there's any personal benefit from it then it's pure selfishness that negates altruism (whereas I'd say if we were forced to suffer for others then THAT is the sign of a sadistic entity/universe). I can't even work my head around that concept right now, but apparently many people do think that for some reason. I hope I can explain it better when I have a clearer head (and how such a concept may have affected Price, though I don't think it had much of anything to do with his suicide, at least not directly).

I think I understand this now.

I view God/dess as immanent (that is, God/dess is within the world around us rather than divorced from it, and that includes carnality and survival aspects), and that affects my entire foundation for understanding higher realities. I also see an importance of harmony, but I'm probably unclear there as I'm basing that on my own personal understanding rather than the more popular kind of God/dess being opposed to the material.

But others, such as those who view altruism as it MUST hurt to be truly altruistic with zero benefits, likely see God/dess as OUTSIDE the material realm, and that the material realm is like the opposite of God/dess (or spirit) and thus is inherently flawed or bad. Therefore, to show true transcendence of it, and alignment with a higher entity, one must disdain one's own materialism. In extreme cases this inspires asceticism that is cut off from the rest of the world, or even self-mutilation or disdaining comforts as bathing. I'd think that oppositional dualism, the kind that says one side is all good and the other all bad, would also play a role here. So of course altruism would have to mean pure suffering or sacrifice on one's part to count.

Keeping it short (and already tired) I'm going to stop there. Of course I could go on and on and on about this.

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Randall
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posted September 24, 2016 12:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
I think I understand this now.

I view God/dess as immanent (that is, God/dess is within the world around us rather than divorced from it, and that includes carnality and survival aspects), and that affects my entire foundation for understanding higher realities. I also see an importance of harmony, but I'm probably unclear there as I'm basing that on my own personal understanding rather than the more popular kind of God/dess being opposed to the material.

But others, such as those who view altruism as it MUST hurt to be truly altruistic with zero benefits, likely see God/dess as OUTSIDE the material realm, and that the material realm is like the opposite of God/dess (or spirit) and thus is inherently flawed or bad. Therefore, to show true transcendence of it, and alignment with a higher entity, one must disdain one's own materialism. In extreme cases this inspires asceticism that is cut off from the rest of the world, or even self-mutilation or disdaining comforts as bathing. I'd think that oppositional dualism, the kind that says one side is all good and the other all bad, would also play a role here. So of course altruism would have to mean pure suffering or sacrifice on one's part to count.

Keeping it short (and already tired) I'm going to stop there. Of course I could go on and on and on about this.


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mirage29
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posted September 26, 2016 06:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
L_K!!! ... so good seeing you.
Interesting story on your vid.

Reminded me too, of this story...

(topic) The Good Samaritan (Lego Parable) [1:59] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3GJCK4Wy-0

PJ!! ... I spent a LOT of time thinking about what you wrote, and it kept me hovering and suspended about what you said.

First of all, I KNOW you personally have a VERY generous Heart and Attitude. And I acknowledge you for all the things I've read that you have been involved with, and that you've even done privately in your world of people-friends. You've been through SUCH hardship.... And I hope the Goodness you've shown others gets Returned to you in special ways.... and NOT just dying with a smile??? (That sorta sucks??.. oh no.)

I like some of the Good Samaritan ACTIONS that some have been doing these days, such as, involving themselves directly to prevent bullies from beating people up, etc.

I know that you are or would be one of those.

Nah.... I've been sorta depressed recently. And the story of George Price has me ground and realize 'how screwed' I 'could' be right now? If there is no 'good' lasting karma that meets you at the end of life, where generous actions I took in the past, wouldn't be returned, then in the physical realm now for my senior years, yahhh, I'm screwed. (Estranged for f.o.o. and extendeds.)

I think the Pluto Leo (square idealistic hippy Neptune Libra) generation is QUITE screwed (in this country) for believing that things are Honest and Fair, and never even giving it a thought that this would not be considered a shared-Value with future generations.... Feels like one of those multilevel pyramid schemes?, depends on people continuing....

There's a generation active right now and coming further into their own, who believe in a NEW psychology of selfishness (came in around AynRand movement of 50s, and EVEN got into the churches now?).

These generations are ripping up nd destroying social programs that would have ensured safety to the system Pluto Leo's have been giving into.

I've heard the way they talk... These actually DON'T care (numb, detached, disconnected) if {we} Live or Die-- (look at pharmaceuticals and what's going on there with OBSCENE cost rises). It's all about the 'self', and whether or not they ~'feel like it' that day. They are here to break norms. Who SAYS you 'have' to be fair? They can do whatever they want. Selfishness is being encouraged as the way the future is SUPPOSED to unfold.

I've been deeply affected by those kinds of thoughts these past weeks. I have my own deeply hidden handicaps, and it "feels" too late now for me. Like my time is spent-out, and I'll be 'left to die alone'-- in extreme physical suffering and cruel anguish like George.

Yes. I KNOW that's 3-D reality for me-- a possible one. The world of the selfish may dry up the world of those who were the compassionate ones who didn't think that the world would become 'this' now.

This "possible" Dickens' kind of future.....

I HOPE that there is a kind of Revival that will happen, that will be like Scrooge getting a visit from the three spectors-- Christmas past, Christmas present, Christmas Future.

And I HOPE they will realize that bah-humbug attitudes only lead to increasing deaths--- (please forgive mild ~snark)
Well then, they ARE the job-creators? More grave diggers? (sorry. my morbid sense of humor sometimes can see 'the funny' in whatever situations... haha, yes, dying with a laugh, AND a smile?)

I just really hope for an Awakening social wake-up call. There ARE Good People on the face of this earth... however, I know some think they might be isolated. (It's been wonderful that Media has shared stories about CARING for people, and animals, etc.)

Certainly, 'some people' have had the-jesus scared out of them. I know some who are freaked out that the person they assist will be some kind of serial killer or thief or something to harm them.

I talked to a bornagain the other day (who works on a ministry team), who is scared shiftless to 'hug' her person next to her in the pew.. I mean, o m g. Is it FEAR that the one you hug is a homo, or just out of prison~~ like ewwww sin-germs?????
W T F!!!!! is MY response.
WTF are YOU doing in a church that your pastor SPECIFICALLY fishes for and invites to come, and YOU don't actually LIVE IT??? Wha'???? WAKE UP!!!!
These are the reasons why ~church is dying and don't work anymore. They are dead fishes?!
Hypocrites!!!!!! You DO ~realize that you are the Church that /~Jesus Died for????? You Big Giant Giant Liars and hypocrites!!!

*ahem* composes herself. sorry again. *steps off her soapbox*

No... Actually, I DO know how hard it is to trust even the people you THINK you know these days. People DO need to be discerning of who or what they invite into their life. I completely understand why they do what some do. Doesn't mean it's right.

That's what a 'selfish' society has caused. It's like a PREVIEW window INTO the lower-form of Age of Aquarius where no one gives a **** about anyone else except their skin in life.

It's like the Book of Judges (O.T.) all over again.

In the words of DrPhil--- How's that working for ye'?

Aquarius is also ruler of the Friends House (H11).

For ALL and ANY Soul who IS a Giver---
I HOPE we live in a Future Attitude and Societal Shared Value that reflects the kind of restoration to Kindness and Goodness of the Good-Scrooge instead of BAD-Scrooge.

And like my Scorpio Grandmother used to say and write to me, I pray you will Have Good Friends in life.

(My H-11 is Scorpio-- haha, they gotta be Deep (and Fun), not empty shallow and ~flllluffy-- at least, a Balance of the time. *roll*)


*SMILING*!!! ... for real! Thanks for letting me emote here. My feelings are in such stew and anxieties, yet filled with faith at the same time. Staying Positive, because I know you guys Rock. I'm having Hope for ALL of us. Dreams DO Come True!

(music) Friends (Bette Midler, The Showgirl MUST Go On) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HpVq1b6f_E

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PixieJane
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posted September 27, 2016 12:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm about to share. Please keep in mind that I'm an air sign and I like to share ideas. Much of this is about my past more than my present, and also observations. It is not intended to be preaching. This is me sharing from my perspective.

I wish I didn't have to go on so long to explain what I mean, but it's the only way.

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PixieJane
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posted September 27, 2016 12:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will say right now, mirage, that I don't support cuts to medical welfare nor the safety net in general. There's a lot wrong, and a lot of wrong assumptions, but I want to avoid making this political so that's all I'll say on that.

I'll add that I think there is far too much individualism in the USA in a very "dog eat dog, devil take the hindmost." Kids are abused and exploited, and so are the elderly. There's this relatively new paradigm of "when you're 18 you're out the door." Even relying on family (especially extended family) after a natural disaster is often seen as strange at best, if not frowned on, which benefits big business and big government, but not society. (My family gets many things wrong, but one of the things they get right is that they're not like this. Nor do they get rid of the elderly just to divvy up their stuff early. Homes are passed down through the generations.)

A friend of mine lost his place after many years. He had taken care of his aging landlord though it was a burden. Only he did (the landlord lived next door to him). Then one day his landlord is gone and his (grown) children are there. They put their father away and were already divvying up his stuff, and gave my friend the absolute minimum time as mandated under law so they could put it all on the open market to sell and divide the cash. As they'd sent the old man to what I call an oubliette to forget about him then it wasn't they were selling to pay for his care. Besides, where the hell were they for all the years he was taking care of the old man for them?

When I was a teen (and supposedly a "devil worshiper") I was pulled in with some other kids who visited an old folks home. The goal was simple: trick the staff into thinking the elderly had visitors because they got better taken care of (though it was still crappy), and the mix of gratitude and despair in the eyes of those we helped haunts me to this day. I read (as an adult) an article about how one of the inmates there was killed by fire ants, which wasn't an instant process, but it went on a long while before he was discovered. But that community is so self-righteous about their hateful Christianity while condemning me and the other kids who helped people trapped in such hells.

Note, I didn't say all Christians were hateful. If I did then it would be redundant to say that. The flavor of many was to be hateful, however. Many of us who helped out there were cynical of the churches who tended to be corrupt and sometimes worse, and thus disillusioned us. Heck, my own grandmother stopped going to church, and though she took me when I moved back in with her at 13, it just took one trip before she said she remembered why she had stopped going (but she remains a Christian, and she thinks the Woes of the Pharisees from the Bible applies to the local churches).

Hmm...let me see if I can find a joke next.

But just to end, most people don't seem to value love unless unless it's about passionate sex. Other types are scorned. And that creates alienation within them so they desperately seek the One True Pairing to fill the void they have inflicted on themselves which typically means even their passionate loves are a source of misery. Of course, men and women are lying to get into such relationships (so how can they be anything other than doomed from the start?). It's very sad, and then they compound it when they seek a pill to make the pain they brought on themselves (by this and other means) to go away...the USA allows the corporations to peddle their meds to the public, among other things, but this is entering political territory again, though it's about a terrible tragedy done to our world.

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PixieJane
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posted September 27, 2016 12:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The joke:

An honest man was being tailgated by a stressed out woman on a busy boulevard. Suddenly, the light turned yellow, just in front of him. He did the right thing, stopping at the crosswalk, even though he could have beaten the red light by accelerating through the intersection.

The tailgating woman hit the roof, and the horn, screaming in frustration as she missed her chance to get through the intersection.

As she was still in mid-rant, she heard a tap on her window and looked up into the face of a very serious police officer. The officer ordered her to exit her car with her hands up. He took her to the police station where she was searched, finger printed, photographed, and placed in a holding cell.

After a couple of hours, a policeman approached the cell and opened the door. She was escorted back to the booking desk where the arresting officer was waiting with her personal effects.

He said, "I’m very sorry for this mistake. You see, I pulled up behind your car while you were blowing your horn, flipping off the guy in front of you, and cussing a blue streak at him. I noticed the Choose Life license plate holder, the What Would Jesus Do? bumper sticker, the Follow Me to Sunday-School bumper sticker, and the chrome-plated Christian fish emblem on the trunk.

"Naturally, I assumed you had stolen the car."

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PixieJane
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posted September 27, 2016 12:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
EDIT

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PixieJane
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posted September 27, 2016 12:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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PixieJane
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posted September 27, 2016 12:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm really angry at the LL server for screwing up badly. I don't know if I'll come back to this or not.

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Lei_Kuei
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posted September 27, 2016 01:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(Some random pondering(s)… and not looking for any Static Answers (since it’s a Paradox either way) just putting these out there for the HELL of it)

Altruism is a nice idea in a Scenario of Infinite Resources, but with Infinite Resources… can one be Altruistic?

This Article makes some Interesting Points…
(Recommend reading it all, not just the below quote)
[ - Does True Altruism Exist - ]

quote:
It is perfectly possible for someone lying on his deathbed and at the very brink of death, who is compos mentis and whose reputation is already greatly assured, to gift all or most of his fortune to some deserving cause, not out of pity, which he may or may not be beyond feeling, but simply because he thinks that, all things considered, it is the right thing to do. In fact, this goes to the very heart of ancient virtue, which can be defined as the perfection of our nature through the triumph of reason over passion. The truly altruistic act is the virtuous act and the virtuous act is, always, the rational act.

Though try upping the scale to “GOD”… and work from there in ones understanding of how the Universe as we know it came into being?! (And the Old Man in that Article is a decent Analogy for God (But imagine the Old Man (GOD) gained all those resources through “Evil” means… would this Lessen or Upgrade the Virtue of the Final Act?)…

(^^Just something to think about, but again on that type of scaling it’s a Paradox)

What I often find humorous… is that Altruism only runs into problems when concepts of “GOD” get in the fraking way of it LOL…!

Similar to Pixie, I could go on and on about these ideas… though maybe “Friends” explains it best while showing the often considered “Two Fools” (In the series) locked in a interesting paradoxical debate...

[Friends – A Selfless Good Deed!] [04:38]

For everything else there is South Park:

[South Park - Satan Explains Naturalism (even Altruism?] [02:24]
^From the Episode Freemium isn’t Free…. (oh the Irony!)

Yet I feel the concept of a Sadistic Universe as posited by Pixie (though while tired) is worth looking at… even under Principles of Immanence it casts GOD in Shades of it’s own Inherent Darkness and a possible journey to reconcile this Dilemma of the self (hence our Universe)?

And any Path Leading out of such a Hell while holding Altruism as the Highest Ideal....?
Would indeed be that of the Fool’s (Hero’s) Journey!

Good luck to us ALL then… (For in such a Malevolent (or Cosmically Indifferent Universe) we surely need it, and each other)!

-=-==-=-=-=

@Mirage: Good to see you too, and enjoyed that Lego vid!


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mirage29
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posted September 27, 2016 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
I will say right now, mirage, that I don't support cuts to medical welfare nor the safety net in general. There's a lot wrong, and a lot of wrong assumptions, but I want to avoid making this political so that's all I'll say on that.

I'll add that I think there is far too much individualism in the USA in a very "dog eat dog, devil take the hindmost." Kids are abused and exploited, and so are the elderly. There's this relatively new paradigm of "when you're 18 you're out the door." Even relying on family (especially extended family) after a natural disaster is often seen as strange at best, if not frowned on, which benefits big business and big government, but not society. (My family gets many things wrong, but one of the things they get right is that they're not like this. Nor do they get rid of the elderly just to divvy up their stuff early. Homes are passed down through the generations.)

A friend of mine lost his place after many years. He had taken care of his aging landlord though it was a burden. Only he did (the landlord lived next door to him). Then one day his landlord is gone and his (grown) children are there. They put their father away and were already divvying up his stuff, and gave my friend the absolute minimum time as mandated under law so they could put it all on the open market to sell and divide the cash. As they'd sent the old man to what I call an oubliette to forget about him then it wasn't they were selling to pay for his care. Besides, where the hell were they for all the years he was taking care of the old man for them?

When I was a teen (and supposedly a "devil worshiper") I was pulled in with some other kids who visited an old folks home. The goal was simple: trick the staff into thinking the elderly had visitors because they got better taken care of (though it was still crappy), and the mix of gratitude and despair in the eyes of those we helped haunts me to this day. I read (as an adult) an article about how one of the inmates there was killed by fire ants, which wasn't an instant process, but it went on a long while before he was discovered. But that community is so self-righteous about their hateful Christianity while condemning me and the other kids who helped people trapped in such hells.

Note, I didn't say all Christians were hateful. If I did then it would be redundant to say that. The flavor of many was to be hateful, however. Many of us who helped out there were cynical of the churches who tended to be corrupt and sometimes worse, and thus disillusioned us. Heck, my own grandmother stopped going to church, and though she took me when I moved back in with her at 13, it just took one trip before she said she remembered why she had stopped going (but she remains a Christian, and she thinks the Woes of the Pharisees from the Bible applies to the local churches).

Hmm...let me see if I can find a joke next.

But just to end, most people don't seem to value love unless unless it's about passionate sex. Other types are scorned. And that creates alienation within them so they desperately seek the One True Pairing to fill the void they have inflicted on themselves which typically means even their passionate loves are a source of misery. Of course, men and women are lying to get into such relationships (so how can they be anything other than doomed from the start?). It's very sad, and then they compound it when they seek a pill to make the pain they brought on themselves (by this and other means) to go away...the USA allows the corporations to peddle their meds to the public, among other things, but this is entering political territory again, though it's about a terrible tragedy done to our world.


(liked the joke too)

You KNOW I'm not a whole-quote poster. Hope you didn't mind, PJ. You said it soo well!

(I'm also willing to remove or change quotes, so, never hesitate to bring that up with me.)

{LK, I haven't read or seen your stuff yet. I've got chores, then some downtown errands in the next few days. It might take me time to come back and give proper quality attention to it, depending on sonic-bombardments in my environment *grrrr rolleyes*!}

Also MY computer has been glitching, PJ. Windows 10 highjacked us again and installed a new system. It glitched terribly just BEFORE they jacked it. I imagine they sent fishy-things in front of the downloads in order to salvage our stuff later. They screw up the computer, then, make adjustments later.

Also, Yahoo had a security breach -- don't know if you knew that? Couldn't access emails, computer froze, etc.

PJ + LK --- Quality posters, for sure!

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mirage29
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posted September 27, 2016 02:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh. Before I go... I loved your story about going into nursing homes with your friends, PJ. You did the Right thing. What a horrible story-- I heard about that too, and it's grizzly. Just appalling.

omg, Devil worshipper? *sigh* I know.

My interest in astrology and meta-studies gained me the same hysterical reception. Even embarrassing me in front of the whole small congregation that I went to 'visit' one day. PLUS, you've read some of my other stories. It was a terrible experience.

I wonder how many closet astrologers there are in their midsts.... What you suppress, grows?

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mirage29
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posted September 27, 2016 03:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you're ACTING OUT the part of Christ?, and you hold within you that Heart of Goodness, and moving with such careful Compassion to Others? You can't be no devo?!!

Know people BY their FRUITS??? Yes. It's NOT what they say, but what they DO as a direct result of their REAL Love inside them.

I'm sooo sorry that happened to you.

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mirage29
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posted September 27, 2016 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
If you're ACTING OUT the part of Christ?, and you hold within you that Heart of Goodness, and moving with such careful Compassion to Others? You can't be no devo?!!

Know people BY their FRUITS??? Yes. It's NOT what they say, but what they DO as a direct result of their REAL Love inside them.


.... and yet--- !!! They can TRULY be dangerous others, dressed in sheep's clothing-- they can USE 'niceness'...

God!! Please keep us Safe...

(music) The Prayer (Celine Dion & Josh Groban, lyrics) [4:20] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idtNxZYnxIw

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PixieJane
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posted September 30, 2016 12:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to be clear, I didn't posit a sadistic universe. I said neither good nor bad. The philosophical musings I've had on that are too numerous for me to want to share now.

But I love this epic ending to a Buffy review, which is pretty much how I've come to view existence, at least on the material level:
http://youtu.be/KiJ7Kscpyks?t=6m6s

And also FYI, I haven't yet read all the responses in this thread yet and may not read through all of it tonight.

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PixieJane
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posted September 30, 2016 03:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I first volunteered at a food bank that serviced many who were homeless (but not just them), I was, at first, doing it primarily to guard some girl scouts. I was thinking about some of the really bad homeless I had mixed with as a kid (not that they all were).

But most of the people who came in, homeless and otherwise, were at least polite (rules were pretty strict, and it was easy to get thrown out, possibly with a permanent ban), and plenty were nice. I realized the difference is that as a runaway I pretty much mixed with those who were either too mentally ill to even attempt to seek help or desperadoes who were wanted by the law, and generally felt they had nothing to lose anyway (as a result, they didn't go to food banks and were cautious of even private charity lest the cops get them). But those at the food bank were people who hadn't given up, and while some had mental problems, it was stuff that could be handled. Plenty of them were just down on their luck who were looking for a hand up more than a handout. I ended up getting to like many of them, and also fellow volunteers (at least a couple who were actually doing community service, including one sentenced for selling pot but was glad for it because she had found several new people to sell to! ).

By then I realized I was looking the wrong way as there was a preacher there (and a couple of cronies) who struck me as bad news. Worse, the preacher had manipulated the girl scouts into showing up in the first place (and they weren't the only group, and through their efforts he was able to use grant money that he misappropriated--unknown to us, he was also embezzling from the food bank as he had been put in charge of the bookkeeping given his skill with grants, and he was a preacher and therefore trustworthy, and this would eventually force the food bank to shut down which the preacher also turned to his benefit).

That preacher became a major thorn in my side for awhile, but I don't want to get into that. Instead, I wanted to mention that some of the homeless wanted to start a Bible study circle, one that did NOT involve that preacher's church as he was obnoxious and manipulative. Other churches weren't willing to accommodate them in a respectful way either. So I went out looking for Bibles as some churches give them away for free, and I got plenty. I also printed up fliers for the would-be group and the circle got started. They insisted that I show up at the first one as without me it wouldn't have been possible. So I did, and that was an interesting story itself in more than one way, but the part I want to share is that I was eventually asked what denomination I was. I had evaded the question to my religious beliefs, but asked point blank I couldn't do that anymore. So I said I was agnostic.

This shocked them all, but they finally said that "by your fruits you shall know them" and they said I was definitely more of a Christian than that preacher, and even some of the other volunteers who were openly Christian but hadn't helped them as I had, and made me an "honorary Christian." That was very touching.


I also got to like my volunteer work there. Stores and farmers would bring in stuff they couldn't sell which meant we had to make sure it was still good. Given my own background growing up on a farm (off and on) I was put in charge of going through the produce brought in by the farmers and I was good at it. Plus, I liked most of the people we were helping as well as some working with me.

I was angry and upset when I realized the food bank had been ripped off hard and was going to be forced to shut down. I volunteered for awhile longer with others who then went on to serve at other soup kitchens and charities that arranged for big meals on Thanksgiving, Veterans Day, etc. Even after I moved (and thus no longer in easy reach of those involved in this), I ran into a couple I had helped back then and they remembered me fondly, one even thanking me with a lot of sincerity. Neither asked me for any money, so I know it wasn't just to butter me up. I'm glad I made some small difference for the better in their lives.

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PixieJane
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posted September 30, 2016 04:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On a more mystical level, I have wondered why some seem to have so many visions and otherworldly help, and I know a guy who has some fascinating and strangely believable stories on all that. Long story short, I believe it's primarily because he had a near death experience when he was like 2-3 years old, and this opened his senses up to the spiritual world as well as other psychic experiences.

One was a spirit that scared him at first (he said it sounded like someone breathing under his bed) who became a friend of his, told him things that were true, and showed him the future in dreams (he only saw him in dreams in which case he looked like a blond boy his own age wearing all white, though his raspy voice when awake that only he could hear sounded more like a grown male). He doesn't know why, but eventually the spirit was just gone.

A couple of years or so later he was in a large pool that was capable of generating artificial waves. He ended up exhausted when the waves came on and he fought to get to one of the ropes, but they just sank under his weight. He accepted then that he was going to die, and he says he got realm calm as he fully accepted that...but then heard a lifeguard shouting at him like a drill sergeant to come to him. Still being a boy, he instinctively obeyed though it was incredibly difficult, and he heard the lifeguard shouting at him the entire time, but then falling silent as he made it to a rail on the side. He was so exhausted that for a moment he could only just half lay there not even fully out of the pool when he realized that the lifeguard (now silent) saved his life, and he looked up to see no one there or close, and no lifeguard that looked like him--blond hair, and wearing white shorts, in other words the one and only time he believed he saw that spirit while awake! (It was also his last encounter despite many attempts to reestablish contact.)

That makes me think something like this is actually possible (WARNING: sad song, and it's debatable whether the ending is unbearably tragic or extremely beautiful):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtNYA4pAGjI

But, I think, it could only happen to a child who had endured an intense NDE (out of body, etc) or other condition that would match the tough trials that ancient shamans and the like used to create strong bonds to the spirit world with spirit allies. (And to my knowledge, George Price had no such advantage so his contact with the more loving realms of the spirit world were limited at best, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there or interacting with, and through, him.)

Which is to say I think that at the mystical levels there's real good...though that's not all that there is.

Anyway, it's late, and I should get to bed. I hope this wasn't too random and that it doesn't appear like I'm babbling.

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teasel
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posted September 30, 2016 09:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^^ That's really interesting. I'm glad you posted.

I believed that I saw an angel, when I was three. I was rushing into my parent's bedroom, to cuddle up to my dad and go to sleep, and I stopped short, shocked. I exclaimed, "Look at the *beautiful* angel!!" and then asked mum about them, saying, something like, "Angels won't hurt you, mommy, will they?" She said no, they wouldn't, as her friend made the sign of the cross, and told mum to call her house - she said she'd pick up the phone, and leave the line open, just in case something happened. She didn't think it was a good sign.

Thirty minutes or so later, my sister, who had been happily playing in the kitchen, raced to my mum in the living room, buried her head in her lap, and was freaking out over a large bird, saying that it was going to get her. She was twisting her body, and pointing at the ceiling. That was the night before mum left my dad, and took us out of the country. My dad isn't violent, so I don't know why they would have been there.

My Great Uncle died on the operating table, and said he was floating somewhere. He was happy, and the most relaxed he's ever been. He tried to fight the doctor who brought him back, because he hadn't wanted to come back. He died within hours of getting home, after putting his wife into a home for people with alzheimers, realizing that he could no longer take care of her. So, I hope that he was going to a good place - that he finally got there. I remember having a feeling that he was hanging around, and the next day, we received a package full of pictures, and things that he'd written, from his son. That was ten years ago last month, I think. He was the closest thing I had to a grandfather.

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mirage29
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posted September 30, 2016 07:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
{{Teasel! }} Those stories are heart-wrenching.

PJ... you kickass!!! hahahha. A Perfectly Good Badass!!! LOVE it!

I remember you telling those stories before, and I'm glad you posted them here again. Everything you said about that preacher, I completely have 'seen' that type. I feel repulsed and angered by that kind of ignorant example. And there ARE more just like him.... There is NO excuse for that! Too Holy to Fail???? aw heck no. More of those are being exposed all the time. They need a prison ministry... like, as an INSIDER! LOL

That song is soooo Beautiful. You've posted that before... I remember. So poignant.


Buffy... Strong & Lucky... Life within the boundaries of Death.

I began to grow to understand your view better when LK started the God thread. I deeply pondered everything you all were saying, and I have 'the download' of your philosophy inside me. Thank you for that.

The coolest thing, is that you and I seem to be able to toggle back and forth and accept each other's view. Soooo Cool!

THAT's how we Make a Better World.... When you can listen completely to one, and download what is 'theirs' and not lose what you already have... (Hopefully we can learn to allow the other-view to affect our own, in some small way needed.)

I think it makes a person a Better Citizen of this world, or, of their own 'life within-boundaries of death'. ...

I see that as a kind of 'box house' ... Only difference, is that I've been UP to the attic and spent a chunk of time there.... So, I 'know' it exists. If I hear a bump, I can envision 'where' that was in the attic.

I guess the cellar or dungeon would belong to all the frightening things in the collective unconscious.... Heavy.

So, my boundary-life has a top-ring to it that I'm aware of almost all the time. Probably because I've had so many strange otherworldly experiences.

Yes, I think I had a NDE during tonsil&adenoids removal operation at 4 years old. They almost lost me... but I remember watching the doctor, and the appliance holding my mouth open. Also later, like the worst feeling of someone having punched you quite painfully in the nose. I 'felt' it. They thought I was anaesthetized.

Then in a swimming pool as a preteenager... doing mummy dives straight down to the bottom of the pool-- got my right big toe caught in the grate at the bottom of the pool, and struggled to get free. My toe finally released, but that ride back up to the surface seemed to take an eternity.

I kept wanting to breathe.... Then, I heard the most Beautiful Lady's Voice, encouraging me NOT to breathe yet, but to wait. She was sooooo Beautiful.

My little life flashed before my eyes--- you know what I kept seeing??? My blue bike laid outside up against the side of the white garage wall. That was my freedom right there-- my wheels! hahaha.

I think one of my uncles (a Cancer) was waiting at the side when I broke surface....

I still have to dissect LK's posts.

We have a hurricane coming up the FLA coast, and one of the projections has it coming to shore parallel to my town(city). That's due around midweek I think? ..... Anyways, I HOPE that Beautiful Lady's Voice comes back in case I need her!

I was here with Hurricane Charlie years ago... I was house-sitting a white hound-dog, and some guinea pigs. The owner took off with her daughters on a NO electronics excursion out of state. No one expected the storm would veer TO us. Took 10+ days for the power to be restored then, and it was soooo muggy. I have stories about that too, but not today.

Y'all Be and Stay Blessed!!! LOL

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