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Author Topic:   Absalom`s death (Bible)
TensionEmpire
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posted March 22, 2017 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TensionEmpire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I read the story of Absalom in the Bible the other day.
He dies hanging on a tree:

``so he was left hanging between heaven and earth.``
Samuel 18

This also cought my eye:
“I have no son to keep my name in remembrance.”

Samuel 18

I never tried interpreted the bible, but I think this verses have some deeper meaning.

why did he die in that way, between heaven and earth?
I don`t remember the Bible talking bad about him, the bible says he was good to the people, to everyone.

dose someone know to interprete the Bible?

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PixieJane
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posted March 22, 2017 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think "between heaven and earth" means in this case he died hanging in a tree (that is, it's to be taken literally). There's very little indication that they had any belief in an afterlife in the Old Testament days (rather, they seemed to think they'd be resurrected one day after God was done with this world, and those like Enoch taken before God didn't actually die, but was literally taken before God), let alone a complex one. Granted, the Bible is so contradictory (inevitable in its long span of being created, and then a lot of politicking on what gets included in the Bible and what gets left out) that one can find just about anything in it.

As for "keep my name in remembrance" that probably means no son to keep his line (to the Hebrews, it was all about male genetics, with women somewhere between livestock and human primarily intended to birth strong sons to fight and inherit).

As for studying it, the library should have some good reference books (check both their 200s and the reference shelves) that clarify what the passages meant at the time it was written, like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Strongs-Exhaustive-Concordance-Bible-Strong/dp/1598566938

Of course you can find some teacher, but there is no "one way" to understand the Bible (hence, so many denominations--that despite more than a thousand years of ruthless persecution and war between those who believed the Bible meant one thing instead of another--with many incompatible with each other in theology, doctrine, and even basic practices). They'll all say they're Biblical, but they all pick and choose what to include (and how to interpret its meaning and importance) and what to ignore, and it's the only way to do it given the Bible's contradictory nature. Even trained theologians debate on what it all means, and sometimes those theologians who argue bitterly with each other even belong to the same denomination. You'll just have to find one you're comfortable with, or you'll have to use the reference works at the library (perhaps with a lot of prayer) to try figuring it out for yourself.

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juniperb
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posted March 23, 2017 07:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Moving to Divine Diversities.

------------------
Partial truth~the seeds of wisdom~can be found in many places...The seeds of wisdom are contained in all scriptures ever written… especially in art, music, and poetry and, above all, in Nature.

Linda Goodman

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TensionEmpire
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posted March 23, 2017 08:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TensionEmpire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi PixieJane,
I started to interest myself on to the bible again, after reading a book, that talks about the bible and how to interprete it.
Reading this book I figured out, that the original bible was written without blank spaces, likethisnospacesbetweenthewords.

He says that the true meaning of the bible is only to be found trough the original version. and that there are all this relation of numbers, proportions and so.
Like there was this one that was taken by god like you said, did not die.
He is the number 7th of the list.
God did rest in the 7th day
he lived 365 years, the days that our year has.
and he interpretes it more in this way.

But back to Absalom`s stroy.
I thought that like, Absalom was a guy that had`t had his feet firm on the ground, something you need if you want to preserve in this world. I thought like, maybe Absalom was ``too good`` to survive long on this word

And yes that he had no son, but I thought also that with him, this kind of man would not be found on earth anymore.

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mirage29
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posted March 24, 2017 03:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello, TensionEmpire and to Pixie Jane

Greetings and Salutations!

I'd heard a sermon recently where there had been a mention of Absalom and David in some way.

Let me review my notes and books to see if I can add here. (Please give me a few days or more to get at them.)

Of course, you both may realize that there's a kind of symbolism there... that Jesus was also hung on a cross (or tree) suspended between Heaven and Earth. (So much, reminds me of the glyph for Neptune.)

There were small hints, like cosmic glitches and hiccups here and there throughout the OT where we begin to see prophetic phrases and materials repeating, which seed and start to open the stories that prefigured/foreshadowed the birth of Jesus, and his suffering, death, and resurrection-- including the type of death he came to experience... hanging on the tree (another name for the Cross).

(music) When David Heard (Eric Whitacre, BYU Singers, lyrics) [15:10] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2ZKKXCuaYc

(music) When David Heard (Eric Whitacre, {{if you like to follow the notes and lyrics on sheet music}}) [17:44] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQBNDnrS8HY

For ref.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Samuel+18&version=NIV

33 The king was shaken. He went up to the room over the gateway and wept. As he went, he said: “O my son Absalom! My son, my son Absalom! If only I had died instead of you—O Absalom, my son, my son!”
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Samuel+19&version=NIV

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TensionEmpire
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posted March 25, 2017 09:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TensionEmpire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey mirage, thanks for sharing with us

yeah, i also think there is a deeper meening, thinking about it now again, the Bible begins it`s hole story with the Heaven and Earth.

Maybe Absalom was in some kind of harmony.

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Lexxigramer
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posted March 25, 2017 09:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lexxigramer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TensionEmpire, I answered you at Lexigram Magic.

TensionEmpire, ich antwortete Ihnen bei Lexigram Magic.

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therefore I am immortal
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Click here to read My Lexigramming Biography/over 1/2 a century to date Lexigramming
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mirage29
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posted March 26, 2017 08:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I looked through my notes, and the story was used for what happened after a death, where David chose to make amends through a far-relative, finding out that a child who had been dropped at birth was crippled, and David made sure that this far-relative was given comfort, and had all his needs taken care of, for the rest of his life.

The story of Absalom was not harmonious at all-- it was a heart-breaking story about treachery rebellion lies and deceits.

He got 'even' with his father-- even through setting up a situation where he had sex in a public way (where the town knew what was going on under tarp) with all of his father's wives.

Incest was a big theme...

After spending some time with this story, I thought about the "tree"? ... and how his hair got tangled-up in the nest of (wiry trouble) branches off this tree.

This story parallels (to me) the "family tree", and how consequences of sins committed by David affected his children. He didn't think to teach wisdoms from his OWN lessons (about leadership) to his children, which went to the root of the trouble that came upon, among and between them.

There are different slants to the story.

I liked the 'Chris Kinner' topic/music vid the most because the minister gave more comprehensive information on Absalom's early childhood.

(topic) The Haunting Tale of Absalom's Dishonor
('dramatized' entertainment appeal for older kids, LOL) [4:50]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfBXBCWEGSU


(topic) David and Absalom (Chris Kinner -- historical background of Absalom bro-&-sis story; then,
(music) Absalom song w/descriptive-lyrics at soundmark ^10:30) [14:03] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GTOkAM1l74


Still curious (with a lot of time on your hands??? LOL)--

More detailed history.

(topic) Absalom and David: Old Testament for kids (CarelinksMinistries) [11:21] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31e9OgSeNEQ

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Randall
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posted March 27, 2017 08:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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mirage29
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posted March 27, 2017 11:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

(music) Hallelujah (Leonard Cohen, Live in London, lyrics) [7:20] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrLk4vdY28Q

lyrics

HALLELUJAH

I've heard there was a secret chord
That David played and it pleased the lord
But you don't really care for music do you?

It goes like this
The fourth the fifth
The minor fall the major lift
The baffled king composing Hallelujah!

Hallelujah Hallelujah
Hallelujah Hallelujah

Your faith was strong but you needed proof
You saw her bathing on the roof
Her beauty and the moonlight overthrew you
She tied you
To a kitchen chair
And she broke your throne and she cut your hair
And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah!

Hallelujah Hallelujah
Hallelujah Hallelujah

(more)...

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TensionEmpire
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posted March 29, 2017 07:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TensionEmpire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you mirage, your view makes sence.
It seems that David did suffer a lot with his sons.

what I remember reading, is that Absalom gained the love of the people by beeing kind and lovely to anybody.

But yeah I can see some lack of respect of him towards David.
David did lavck education toward his sons, as you said.

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mirage29
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posted March 29, 2017 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TensionEmpire:
What I remember reading, is that Absalom gained the love of the people by being kind and lovely to anybody.

He was doing it to only to TRICK people, TensionEmpire.

Absalom had a "hidden agenda" for acting nice and telling people he cared about them. In his heart, he didn't. He only was thinking about HIMSELF. He wanted to get back at his father with whatever planned-way he could.

Absalom was being FAKE... the whole time. In his mind, he was merely being manipulative.

It was FAKE love, and FAKE care to everyone, in order to lure and draw his father's followers to turn him(dad), who was the King (David).

It was slick. He was A Deceiver....

He 'knew' how to say the right things, to sucker people to his side. There was nothing genuine about it. He was merely USING them as pawns, to get AT his dad.


When he had public sex with all his dad's wives, he was USING people again---

He used the women, abusing his position.
He used the people (in public) who came upon the scene and witnessed his behaviors. He was working to bring SHAME on his dad. ....

He was performing EVIL, under the guise of having been Good. He was not good. And the people only wanted someone to care and understand their problem. Scripture said he 'agreed' with them, whether or not it was right to agree-- he just wanted the people on HIS side. He was making overtures and promises to them, while not actually genuinely being what he "appeared" before them to be.


When David had sex with Bathsheba, she was in a compromised position (naked, taking a bath), and already BELONGED as wife to a man in the military.

David saw her and wanted sex with her. Had it. Then when she was pregnant, David ultimately "arranged" for the man to be put in a dangerous place in the front-lines, so that he would be KILLED.

QUOTE
Bathsheba was the wife of Uriah the Hittite,
and afterward of David, by whom she gave birth to Solomon,
who succeeded David as king.
(United Kingdom of Israel and Judah).

David's seduction of Bathsheba, told in 2 Samuel 11, is omitted in the Books of Chronicles.

The story is told that David, while walking on the roof of his palace, saw Bathsheba, (who was then the wife of Uriah), having a bath.
He immediately desired her and later made her pregnant.

In an effort to conceal his sin, and save Bathsheba from punishment for adultery, David summoned Uriah from the army (with whom he was on campaign), in the hope that Uriah would re-consummate his marriage and think that the child was his.

But Uriah was unwilling to violate the ancient kingdom rule applying to warriors in active service.
Rather than go home to his own bed, he preferred to remain with the palace troops.

After repeated efforts to convince Uriah to have sex with Bathsheba, the king gave the order to his general, Joab, that Uriah should be placed on the front lines of the battle, where Uriah would be more likely to die.
David had Uriah himself carry the message that led to his death.

After Uriah was dead, David married the now widowed Bathsheba.

David's action was displeasing to the Lord, who accordingly sent Nathan the prophet to reprove the king.

After relating the parable of the rich man who took away the one little ewe lamb of his poor neighbor (2 Samuel 12:1–6),
and exciting the king's anger against the unrighteous act,
the prophet applied the case directly to David's action with regard to Bathsheba.

The king at once confessed his sin and expressed sincere repentance.

Bathsheba's first child by David was struck with a severe illness and died, unnamed, a few days after birth, which the king accepted as his punishment.

Nathan also noted that David's house would be punished in revenge of this murder. Bathsheba later gave birth to David's son Solomon.

David's punishment came to pass years later when one of David's much-loved sons, ABSALOM, led an insurrection that plunged the kingdom into civil war.

Moreover, to manifest his claim to be the new king, Absalom had sexual intercourse in public with ten of his father's concubines,
which could be considered a direct, tenfold divine-retribution for David's taking the woman of another man.
(2 Samuel 16:20–23)

endQuote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathsheba

"In an effort to conceal his sin, and save Bathsheba from punishment for adultery"

DAVID was King..... She was a woman in a very compromised situation.

What authority did she 'really' have? YET, "she" was going to be the one BLAMED and put to death (by stoning?) because of what 'the man' wanted and did to her. The perpetrator got away with doing whatever he wanted. The woman gets the blame and punishment (in most cultures, one way or another) for everything?

On the note of Wisdom...
Solomon (said to be one of the wisest beings born then) was a child of the later legal union between David and Bathsheba.

Redemption. Good things. Bad things. Intermingling layers of stories, all through the life of one man, David.

All... within the lineage of Jesus Christ of Nazareth,
Spiritual Redeemer and King.

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TensionEmpire
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posted March 31, 2017 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TensionEmpire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks mirage, intriguing story, this one from David.

I can see in Life, that this ressonates, the Father gets the son that he deserves.
Old sayings say this too right?

Like a Father that thinks he is something, but in fact he is nothing, will get a son that will reflect that nothingness of him

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mirage29
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posted April 01, 2017 10:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for your response, TensionEmpire.

Gosh! I sure hope it wouldn't be interpreted THAT roughly?

But I suppose some Dads might feel that way towards their son, and vice versa.

Nobody is EVER a total failure, or a Nothing ... I would hope that everyone has some kind of salvageable worth, in some way.

In our relationships with parents, there are layers of joy (somehow), intermixed within the bad-ways things can turn out.

Remember now.... David WEPT sincere tears of grief for his son, for the Sorrow that came into their bond. I know personal stories like that-- where proper closure was totally impossible to make, because of a hardness of Heart.

The moral of that story is there so that WE can TAKE the Wisdoms out of that bad story, and tweak and apply whatever connections we make, to our OWN home, or in the imagery and processing of our OWN soul (if other person is not, or no longer, available).

I do incredibly understand how super-painful and difficult parent/child relationships can be. Such a point of almost incurable SUFFERING, that can last unresolved ....
Father to son.

Especially perhaps in a VERY strict authoritative culture. Much, even TOO MUCH, can be expected or demanded of an innocent child, with the positive nurturing side of the relationship totally-missing or uncultivated.

Especially if the father is a very important person (VIP) in the community. They can be sooo busy with the demands of their career, that they fail to notice that their boy is growing up! The pain, the wound, tends to become a pattern, and gets passed down to the next generation.

(music) Cat's in the Cradle (Harry Chapin, with the story behind the writing of this song) [5:02] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etundhQa724


(Remember... There's the Good Part of the Story of David, as he had also fathered King Solomon.}

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Randall
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posted April 03, 2017 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No one is a failure. It is never too late to change one's perspective. Change where you look, and change where you go.

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Randall
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posted April 04, 2017 08:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
David humbled himself and became a king.

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Randall
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posted April 05, 2017 05:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No fear.

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Randall
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posted April 06, 2017 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was thinking about Goliath with "no fear." All of the men in the army were afraid of Goliath, but young David stepped up.

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mirage29
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posted April 06, 2017 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
David humbled himself....

(music) Dance like David danced (scripture, scenes... 2Sam6) [6:09] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVEwea58LZ8

Scenes from that vid remind me of the coming Holy Week.

This Sunday, April 9th, is 'Palm Sunday'...
The people crying out Hosanna!, with Joy, as The Living Tabernacle (Jesus) was riding on the back of a colt and an ass. (Like the old testament tabernacle was carried placed on shoulders of those appointed to bear it up.)

This victory celebration was actually a death and coming funeral march for His body.

With this following song, I used to (~somewhat conservatively LOL) Dance-it-up in the aisles, shoes kicked-off my feet like David took his clothes off. Spiritually with an inward complete reckless-abandon (in my imagination) Before The Lord, I would charge the air with my spirit. This song was from my old church-days. So much fervency and Joy.

Laughing-- the transiting Moon was just on my asteroid Spirit Leo!

(music) Dance Like David (Fred Hammond, lyrics) [4:17] * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v4DBZW6RPM

*corrected url.*

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TensionEmpire
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posted April 07, 2017 04:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TensionEmpire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yeah, maybe i can learn something with that story :P

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Randall
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posted April 08, 2017 01:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
True!

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Randall
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posted April 14, 2017 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We all could.

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mirage29
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posted April 23, 2017 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sunday Reading
2 Samuel 12:1-3 and 2 Chronicles 16:9.

God sent Prophet Nathan ... with parable of the lamb to convict David of the wrong he had just perpetrated when he tried to cover the sin of killing an innocent man!


When Uriah (friend and lead-soldier in David's army) came back from fighting in the war, he didn't have sex his wife out of a Military Honor custom--

You see... David had kinda~hoped that married-soldier Uriah would have had sex WITH his wife while he was on furlough, leading Uriah to think that he Be a baby-daddy.... Then all would be Cool about that----
Truth is that it was actually David's baby ! noooo???

On the side,
...David gathered his war staff and privately "arranged" for the murder-death of Uriah by putting him OUT in front of enemy fire. This led to the spilling of the blood of a man who had been Honorable, and FAITHFUL and Loyal to David!... while David was deceiving and terribly-sneaky and 'untrue' through all this...


GOD (through His mouth-piece, the Prophet Nathan) confronted David, His anointed one, with 'what' he did to an innocent man-- having a H5 affair with this man's wife, then taking that man's biological life to cover-up the secret 'pregnancy'.

David could have had any other "eligible" woman in the kingdom... but instead, chose to have 'an affair' and betray a friend who was nothing but trusting and Loyal to David.

(music) Honesty (Billy Joel, live) [3:47] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbD2lAxYb-c


Nathan the Prophet..... using a story about a lamb to parallel what wrong David did, opened David's understanding, and 'called' him on the DEATH (killing) of Uriah (to cover up David's own shameful indiscretions)!

(music) In The Air Tonight (Phil Collins) [4:53] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkADj0TPrJA

#Who-Needs-Soap-Operas?

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Randall
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posted April 24, 2017 08:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Intense story.

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TensionEmpire
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posted April 25, 2017 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TensionEmpire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yeah, that story is very famous.
We never know, maybe this women was too beautifull...

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