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Author
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Topic: Does your 4th tell your childhood story?
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good girl
Knowflake Posts: 83
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 30, 2008 01:16 PM
 
I know the whole chart needs to be considered when any part of the life is examined,but...
can we look at the 4th house and in a nutshell see the experience of childhood and its impression on us? It works for my chart. My childhood was full of upheavels (on every level) as indicated by scorpio on the 4th cusp. But I also have the sign saggitarius full contained in the 4th; if you asked about my past I would tell you I my childhood was a great adventure! IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Knowflake Posts: 163
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 30, 2008 01:23 PM
I agree with youSagittarius Imum Coeli with its ruler,Jupiter in Sagittarius conjunct it - multiracial,multicultural childhood
Saturn opposing that - a lot of restrictions,discipline,structure,coldness Geocentric South Uranus Node in Sagittarius in 4th 50 minutes conjunct the Imum Coeli, and that can indicate unstable,unconventional childhood IP: Logged |
sunshine_lion
unregistered
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posted December 30, 2008 02:49 PM
does not work for mine, at all.sun
moon
merc in leo 4th house moon sq neptune - maybe shows my moms drug problem early on
sun conj ic
merc sq asc I had a very unstable, harsh life as a child, was lied to about my real father and still do not know for sure who it is. bi-polar schizophrenic suicidal abusive mother.....now turned jesus mean in the name of god crazy....needless to say, I did not take friends home nor do I have contact to this day. it had a huge impact on my life. I think all those 4th house happy looking planets tell a lie as it relates to my formative years.
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Love
Knowflake Posts: 49
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 30, 2008 02:53 PM
Pretty much.IC in Leo - very dramatic childhood, mainly due to my mother being volatile. One minute she was nurturing, the next she was dangerous. This is also shown by Mars in the 4th squaring my Moon (widely) and my Jupiter (tightly) in the 12th. There was a lot of unpredictability. Mars is also the ruler of my 12th and there were a lot of secrets and lies in my childhood. I recently found out a bunch of stuff about my infancy which made some of my therapy sessions make *alot* more sense. I have Saturn in the 3rd but conjuncting my IC. Saturn is typically the father and my father was not around during the week, only weekends. My Saturn squares my Uranus in the 6th (every day events). Not overly restrictive in my case, but definitely emotionally inconsistent at best. IP: Logged |
missneptune
unregistered
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posted December 30, 2008 03:15 PM
The 4th house also represents the father as well. Natal Mars is in the fourth house in Aries with a Aries cusp on the 4th house. My childhood was very disruptive, I moved around a lot, lived in a big and amazing city called San Francisco. I think this disruption was exciting to me, My father wasn't in the picture at all though, I was raised by my single mother. I've read that the 10th house represents the mother in Llweynn George's book, this makes sense because my 10th house cusp is in Libra and my mother is a Gemini Sun who always kept it together even though she was a young single mother, fortunately she only has one child -me, so it may of been more difficult had she had more children. Back to the 4th house cusp, My father is also a Leo Sun, and my cusp is in Aries, so just that explains the significance of the 4th house for me personally. Its interesting because from another's perspective they would probably believe my childhood was disruptive and uneasy, but I really enjoyed it until I was about 9 years old, and had to move from San Francisco to Portland, OR. I've lived here ever since, but still want to move back to San Francisco - someday. My childhood was very disillusioned full of fantasy and going to places like the palace of fines arts and golden gate park, I've always been very influenced by aesthetic, especially beautiful places like San Francisco, and Spain. ------------------
Sun - Leo
Moon - Pisces
Ascendant - Sagittarius IP: Logged |
afflictedvenus
unregistered
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posted December 30, 2008 03:17 PM
sunshine lion I think it was Isobel Hickey (old astrologer)that said moon square neptune = suffering at the hands of the mother 
all planets in 4th can show complexes hidden within family,even the nice ones
I've got no planets in 4th but aquarius on cusp and I was cetainly unconventional and so was my family
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sunshine_lion
unregistered
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posted December 30, 2008 03:26 PM
afflicted venus...that is why astrology is so interesting.I had never heard that, and yet like old wives tales that hold truth down generations, things will click and then make sense. I never could figure out my 4th house seemingly not adding up. 10th house father, interesting, one of the men i think may be my father is an aquarius, 10th house aqua ...no planets...the dna test was inconclusive. could have been one of 3. IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Knowflake Posts: 163
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 30, 2008 03:27 PM
I wonder how 4th house became the father and 10th house became the mother in Western Astrology.In Vedic Astrology, it's the other way around too. 9th house is also viewed as the house of father by some Vedic Astrologers. I think Northern Indians view 9th as the father and Southern Indians view 10th as the father. Northern Indians view the father as the teacher aka guru, and so they believe the 9th house fits father. It seems that mostly Saturn is viewed as the father in Western Astrology too unlike Sun is viewed as father in Vedic Astrology. What if you have had Saturn experiences involving father figures, that can be kinda complexed too. Sun-Saturn aspect could indicate discipline,structure involving experiences with the father. IP: Logged |
blue moon
Knowflake Posts: 144
From: U.K
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 30, 2008 03:31 PM
My father's Mars is on my I.C, my mother's Mars is on my M.C ~ very close in degree. What are the chances? They were both active in the community, they still are, though they are both pushing 70. Pisces I.C, empty 4th house
My house is shambolically untidy. I always feel like I should be doing something more productive in society than making the hobs of the cooker shine. Virgo M.C ~ Moon, Pluto in 10th house (Placidus)
I feel the need to do something useful, something of service. As I work in a library everything is immaculately ordered and tidy. Many of the users are nurses, I love helping them to find their information. I do charity work. etc.
Neptune, ruler of the 4th house, is in a T-Square with Saturn, Jupiter and the M.C. This says more about my idealism than my childhood, which I feel it would be churlish to criticise.
Neptune/Jupiter/Saturn also forms a wedge with the Moon and Pluto. My childhood helped me to be a tough person. Not that it was bad, that's just the personality of my mother coming through. She had a hard start in life. She went more for the prepare than protect route of parenting, which I thank her for, it stood me in good stead. IP: Logged |
afflictedvenus
unregistered
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posted December 30, 2008 03:33 PM
Hi Glaucus, according to Liz Greene she says the 4th house is what is hidden and because we know who our mother's are she says that she should be assigned to the 10th because she's the visible parent,paternity can be a hidden thing so she puts father in the 4th and also mother tends to be our "shaping " parent because she is the one who generally brings us up and so more likely to influence how we turn outhowever,recent research has shown a father's influence is the key to a asuccessful career/achievements in life
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Glaucus
Knowflake Posts: 163
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 30, 2008 03:53 PM
"Hi Glaucus, according to Liz Greene she says the 4th house is what is hidden and because we know who our mother's are she says that she should be assigned to the 10th because she's the visible parent,paternity can be a hidden thing so she puts father in the 4th and also mother tends to be our "shaping " parent because she is the one who generally brings us up and so more likely to influence how we turn out"
That's the thing
I never knew my father, I grew up only knowing my mother. I was raised by her and my stepfather who I haven't seen since my mom broke up with when I was 18. but My mother never knew her mother. My maternal grandmother left her as a baby,tried to put her up for adoption. My grandfather came back from Korea(he was in the marines),and when he saw my mother,he couldn't let her go. He kept his daughter.
So my mom only knew her father. She was raised by him and her stepmother who is only 13 years older than her. I do believe that not having her mother in her life really messed her up deeply on a psychological level more than my not having my father. I think that it's far more painful to grow up without a mother than without a father. I plan to break the pattern like I have broken other family patterns. an interesting thing is that my mother has Midheaven in Pisces which is the moonsign of her father,my father,and me. Her Imum Coeli is in Virgo,and it is is the moonsign of her mother and the sunsign of her stepmother.
my mom's name asteroid is conjunct my IC
my father's name asteroid is conjunct my Midheaven
I also believe that cultural can be a difference too. I don't think western astrologers take cultural differences into account.
Raymond
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afflictedvenus
unregistered
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posted December 30, 2008 04:13 PM
Raymond I agree with you with the cultural differences and I thought that as I read your last post about the vedic astrologers holding the 9th/10th for father as within that culture he is a prominent figure,I have a client who is hindu/punjabi/brahmin and I've learned a lot from her about the differences(she is british born and bred and sees both sides)in family culture,
I also agree it has to be harder without mum(rather than dad) but more so if you are younger, IP: Logged |
afflictedvenus
unregistered
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posted December 30, 2008 04:23 PM
Sunshine lion the book she wrote was called a cosmic science and to say she wrote it in 1970 it's pretty incredible,she went on to teach howard sasportas who taught others with liz greene and they both really pushed the boundaries with the depths of interpreting charts IP: Logged |
Libralove09
unregistered
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posted December 30, 2008 04:50 PM
im unsure, my 4th house is in libra, and i have Pluto in scorpio in the 4th. IP: Logged |
Plutonian Persona
Knowflake Posts: 37
From: Denver, CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 30, 2008 05:29 PM
IC at 28 Capricorn, Aquarius is intercepted in my 4th house. This set-up describes my childhood perfectly: I was the very responsible first child who acted like the second adult in the house. It was a very unpredictable childhood as well: I never knew what would happen next. IP: Logged |
Love
Knowflake Posts: 49
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 30, 2008 07:11 PM
I can't remember which book I read it in, but it says that for a couple different reasons, some people might have their IC represented by the mother and MC represented by the father and vice versa.If I can find my source I will come back to quote it, but basically I think it depends on a few factors. And I believe, as in all astrology, if you see a pattern repeating itself throughout out the chart which represents the mother/father which also relates to the IC/MC then you'll have your answer. IP: Logged |
good girl
Knowflake Posts: 83
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 30, 2008 09:59 PM
I thought I'd add that traditionally the Ic/4th is associated with the mother because it is the natural ruler of cancer. Same with capricorn as natural ruler of Mc/10th. Liz Greene and I think Howard Saspotans, and maybe Stephen Arroyo too switch this around because the 4th is the house of orgin and in that sense the father is our orgin (in that we get the family name through him, connecting us to our family past). And the 10th is more the "out there" house, what is obvious to others. In that sense the mother is more obvious to the child, and so we inherit 10th traits from her.
Either way they usually work as a pair. Each a different side of the same coin. If one is abusive/the other plays victim. If one is dominant/ the other holds back. Etc.. IP: Logged |
triplecancer
Knowflake Posts: 2
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 30, 2008 10:21 PM
In my case it does tell my childhood story. Pluto on the cusp indicating complex issues and upheavals in the domestic environment. And uranus in the house indicating an unstable home life. Both the sign and planet definetly indicate how my childhood was.
with regards to who represents which house, Howard Sasportas also says that the 4th house is the hidden parent and the 10th house the shaping parent. For some people the shaping parent was the father so in their case they have to take the 10th house as the father. It depends on the person's experience with their parents. So for some people the 4th might represent the father and for some the mother.
I do believe that the mother might be the shaping parent on a more emotional level. I think usually the mother nurtures and the fathers guides the child into the external world. They both shape but in different ways. The father helps the child "detach" from the mother, or "cut" the umbilical cord. I do believe this could influence the person's future professional life. I'm not saying that people who don't have fathers don't develop a career, but could have a harder time doing so. My father was an "absent" father, even if he was physically present and I believe that he did not help me face the external world and this has affected my unstable career path. And i my chart he is represented in my 4th house by uranus: the erratic, detached parent. IP: Logged |
sunshine_lion
unregistered
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posted December 31, 2008 10:39 AM
thanks av...I will try to get a copy of the book on the net, sounds like a good read.good thread... HA! Picked it up for 3 bucks at amazon dot com! shipping was more than the book! Can't wait to get it! IP: Logged |
Love
Knowflake Posts: 49
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 31, 2008 02:19 PM
After looking through many of my charts I'm amazed (though perhaps I shouldn't be) that I know so many people whose IC is ruled by Mars or has Mars in the 4th. And out of those, many of the 4th houses are connected to the 12th house - just like mine.What would you think about a Pisces IC? The people who have Neptune ruling or conjunct their IC seem to have had calmer or somewhat idyllic childhoods. Obviously the aspects will tell more of the story, but it seems a somewhat softer IC to have. As opposed to my abusive Mars anyhow. IP: Logged |
FistOfLegend
unregistered
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posted December 31, 2008 02:30 PM
I just saw this kid in the store yelling for his mommy, over and over again. "Mama, mama, mama." When he finally got on line, he was tugging at his mother's shirt. He wouldn't let go.
I had to laugh. I knew this kid had some 4th house action going on. IP: Logged |
good girl
Knowflake Posts: 83
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 31, 2008 02:57 PM
Love,
I would think pisces on the Ic would be someone who picks up a lot of the family subconscious stuff and acts it out. Like if the family puts on the pretense that all is well but there are emtotional issues not dealt with this kind of placement makes one more sensitive to those things not expressed.Also due to pisces relationship to neptune/12th this placement may make one idealize the home environment, perhaps even decieving the self about the early family life. But yeah, it depends too on the aspects. IP: Logged |
Lara
Knowflake Posts: 420
From: aspideronmars
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 31, 2008 03:30 PM
hmm interesting!Cancer on IC. Moon in 12th conjunct saturn (MC ruler), NN, venus (7th ruler), AC. My childhood was extremely lonely. My mother had drug problems and so my father brought me up with no hugs, not much attention and l spent a lot of my time on my own in deep thought. The one thing l really needed was a secure home environment, which i got yet it was without affection etc. So l think it does fit as it affected me on all levels emotionally, and still does affect my adult relationships. IP: Logged |
FistOfLegend
unregistered
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posted December 31, 2008 03:33 PM
My fourth house is very much a part of me, but the Moon is also very telling. IP: Logged |
Cappadora
unregistered
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posted December 31, 2008 04:07 PM
Pisces is on my IC and it makes sense to me. There was a lot of unhappiness and tension in my childhood and so I'd escape from it by drifting off into my own fantasy world... La... DeDa... LaLa... Oh, did you just say something?As for the argument about which house refers to which parent I have to say that in my case the MC definitely refers to my Dad. I have Virgo on the MC ruled by Mercury conjunct the Asc (Aries point) from the 12th house…My Dad is an Aries with moon in Virgo ruled by Mercury in Pisces. Interestingly enough, my Dad also shows quite strongly in my chart in other ways. I have my Sun (the Sun being astrologically connected with the father) in Capricorn located in the 1st house while he has his sun in Aries located in the 10th house. Saturn in Virgo (Saturn is astrologically connected with the father also) relates back to my father’s Virgo/Aries/Pisces stuff again…my father raised me after age 7 and I was separated from my mother for most of my childhood. It has affected me deeply in many ways and I’ve had to overcome a lot of insecurity in my life. If Dad in my chart is the MC, then the IC is my mother. Because I rarely had the chance to be close to her my Pisces IC makes sense for her because my mother has always been something of a mystery to me… she is a Taurus with moon in Gemini… her symbolism doesn’t show in my chart the same way that my Dad’s does and this is probably because she was less in the picture. My paternal Grandma stepped into my mother’s place to help my Dad raise me and we were very close… now, her symbolism does show in my chart. I have Cancer moon in the 8th house and she is a Cancer sun with Pluto conjunct. It also occurs to me that the 8th house moon refers to a separation from the mother (8th = letting go, endings) so perhaps an 8th house sun or Saturn, or even these placements in Scorpio could refer, in some cases (not all), to a separation from the father. On a side note, Grandma’s moon is in Virgo like my Dad’s so that type of energy was really shaping me as a kid. I’m really grateful to my Dad and Grandma for being there for me and helping me to feel loved and valued. As a grown women now I can see how it saved me in many ways. I think having my Dad also helped me feel worthy of respect and love from guys in general. I’d never put up with someone who treated me bad and as a kid I always knew that my Dad was willing to stand up and be the Warrior for me if need be… I think all girls need that type of inner worthyness…
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Lindaland
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