posted December 30, 2008 11:31 PM           

That being said, I've known people born only a few days before or after him, who had the same aspects, and were not sadists.

posted December 30, 2008 11:55 PM           

how ever, i have done some quite cruel things in the past, that i will never understand.

posted December 31, 2008 10:49 AM           

I don't want to say that such an aspect necessarily makes a person a "sadist". But ... in the case of that man ... all the negative potential of this aspect came into full play. I guess, in this case, this has to do with a severe lack of self-love; he is suffering from a perverted kind of minority complex, feels very insecure about himself, is a trickster in many ways, so he knows that not much of the things he does and says are of real substance ... that's what makes him feel bad - but in order to cure this bad feeling he takes delight in making feel other people even worse, and be it only punctually. As mentioned above, I came quite close to that man, and he once talked about that openly, he said: "Yes, I am mean sometimes - in order to feel you better." HM.... (I'm glad to have him kicked out of my life, haha, he needs to see a therapist, and deep down I know that it must be hell to hate yourself so much as he does...)

posted December 31, 2008 10:55 AM           

very.

i could relate to some of it.

posted December 31, 2008 11:07 AM           

He also was aware that he'd be "punished" or put down by others, sooner or later - because his mean-ness was so obvious soon ... sometimes it bordered to childishness. So it was/is definitely a downward spiral for him ... and, I am afraid, he wont' be able to break that dynamic by himself. He REALLY needs some help, in this regard. Because whenever a person lets him down, after he has overdone in hurting them deliberately ... he feels even worse than before - and then has to be even meaner next time or with the next one.

He TALKED about that, he KNOWS what's going on. I loved that man ... and tried to stay calm ... and was able to take about 85% of his meanness not too personal. But ... the remaining 15% were so evil - that I had to go. I was another one who put him down ... in a looooong row of people ... he has just lost by not being able to discipline himself and not being able to TRUST in his own worth and not being able to BELIEVE that people do love him.

It's a very strang (and sad!) dilemma for him. I'm pretty sure of that...

posted December 31, 2008 12:01 PM           

im just trying to see what could be responsible for some of the cruel things i did to pets that i had when i was younger, i don't think i remember it all. i'd rather not say the things that i did. but i don't believe my motive was to enjoy what i was doing.

sexual arousal is definitely not involved. i do not like to hurt others, until they give me a reason to. if some one does something mean to me, i will definitely enjoy hurting them back worse.

the idea of lack of self love, and feeling under appreciated, and others not liking me, motivates me to be a lot to fulfill a mean personality towards them, to make them hate or dislike me more i think.

i don't feel comfortable going into much details of what i think.

although this is probably a normal thing i guess.

posted December 31, 2008 12:15 PM           

quote:

---

the idea of lack of self love, and feeling under appreciated, and others not liking me, motivates me to be a lot to fulfill a mean personality towards them, to make them hate or dislike me more i think.

---

This is interesting - and does make sense, I guess I can understand this pretty well. That "dynamic" or "mechanism" sure makes sense - it even rings a bell in my own mind (being a Scorpio-personality and all). The idea of being "consequent" in a way that, if other people don't like you, let's make them hate you even more ... haha - in some way this is very reasonable to me!

The only dilemma that MIGHT be attached to that principle (and this seems to be true for the man I was talking about): If you don't manage to believe other people that they DO appreciate, love and like you ... and if this is the reason to hurt even the ones who love you ... maybe because you desperately seek for more and more and more proof ... that they love you DESPITE OF the nasty things you're doing ...: In THIS case something would go wrong, seriously. And in this case (only) that person would suffer from a pathological mistrust/distrust-syndrome and some (self-)aggressiveness, that should be cured somehow, I guess. It is then ... 100% destructive and being "loved" is sabotaged by the person him/herself then.

So, how you described it, that resonates with my experience and observations, and this is pretty "normal" or "common" and not really "wrong", but totally easy to understand (and I know this by my own behaviour). But if this principle is overdone or even perverted ... I guess it can be really disastrous. (and that was the case with the man I was talking about)

posted December 31, 2008 12:21 PM           

the mechanism i guess does make sense when you put it that way. like i said, i don't believe im sadistic, but i don't understand why i did some of these things i did.

i do test people, and if i don't like some one because they they did something that upset or bothered me,i won't show these feelings (12th in cancer, - moon in aries.) venus in libra hides it well too.

but then at any chance to get them back, i will do it, and enjoy it.

i have enjoyed stirring some people up if i envy them too.

my scorpio pluto sextiles my mars, and trines my saturn, this saturn is domicile in capricorn, my capricorn saturn squares my moon in aries, which is again full of emotions i hide (12th in cancer), my saturn squares my venus too.

maybe this could be why, but i still don't know, i don't think or believe im a cold or cruel person, but i did some things that make me feel bad, i still have to deny it to my mother, who i think knows i did it, but i never admit it.

posted December 31, 2008 12:28 PM           

Huh, scary, it is:
- cj. my Sun
- cj. my Sappho
- cj. Genius

In Synastry with the man I was talking about, my Sado is:
- cj. his Ophelia ("touchyness")
- cj. his Part of Desire
- cj. his Paradise
- cj. his Tantalus

That man's SADO in his own natal chart is:
- cj. his Jupiter
- cj. his Vesta
- cj. his Part of Weddings
- cj. his Sun/Amor- Midpoint

posted December 31, 2008 12:35 PM           

With me it is the same: My own "sadism" sometimes is even worse, maybe. (Also ... not very easy or comfortable to talk about that ... to be honest: I am not as courageous and refrain to talk about that, for the moment.)

So - NO jugdement attached at all - okay? The funny thing is, nevertheless: Moon in Aries ... that horror-man had this too, opposing his Mars in Libra (you have your Venus in Libra, right?) So ... some sort of "outraging temper" might come into play with this - and a strong need to "hide" or even nivellate what has happened while being "at a temper" ... some need to "balance" this via the Libra-factor... ?
***edit**** 12th house: This man had his Sun, Pluto and Uranus in 12th, and his Mercury right on the cusp of his 12th

posted December 31, 2008 12:51 PM         

Actually I did cruel things to animal when I was young too. It was an urge, I did it to break limits, to see how far I could go, how far they could take it, admittedly it was even a 'good' kind of feeling, but not in that sexual sense.

In a way, Sadism is of breaking of limits, it can be likened to OCD, whereby certain actions have to be done to relieve an emotional/mental sort of pressure.

That's why cruel actions can feel good, and not just in a sexual way.

Pushing past boundaries is a very human thing to do, sometimes it spills over into a 'taboo' zone.

That should be an ego desire, symbolised by Mars. And these ego desires conflict with desires of our souls, symbolised by Pluto. Mars and Pluto in a non-harmonious aspect can bring conflicts between those two areas
and an unconscious guilt, and the desire to feel 'pure'. Pain is a sort of pureness. Pure feeling. Pure pleasure.

You feel the need to atone for that guilt, or you feel angry because of that guilt.

I think most people have that little bit of sadism in their souls, but our higher sense controls that urge. So if that higher sense conflicts with that inner urge, the inability to control that urge may result, leading to sadistic tendencies.

posted December 31, 2008 12:57 PM           

the ants the next morning had a feast, i boiled the kettle for them too.

that wasnt that bad atall though, they arn't proper animals.

fist, your antagonizing skills are weak old man.