posted January 31, 2009 02:31 AM           

Just a thought, lately I've been thinking bout more of the hidden and obscure surpressed stuff in a chart (dont do progression or transits but maybe some planets are making aspects in my 10th or 12th house, lol) and been kind of applying to my life and of ppl i know well to get a practical idea.

Would anyone would indicate things like rape, sexual abuse, prostitution, exotic dancing, marital abuse/domination.

Like, what aspects in a natal chart, what planets in houses. Havent figured out transists and progressions yet but they're not much use to me cos i dont know how to figure it out lol

Id put my own natal chart as it would be a great one to study for that stuff, here's my bday if you wanna check it out and get back to me with what you found?

Thu Jun 27, 1985 12:55am (ST +10:00 GMT) Melbourne, Victoria, Australia 144:58E 37:49S

Here's my aspects anyways:

Sun Opposite Neptune
Moon Trine Jupiter
Moon Sextile Uranus
Sun Trine Pluto
Moon Square Mars
Neptune Sextile Pluto
Venus Opposite Saturn
Jupiter Sextile Uranus
Jupiter Square Node
Venus Square Jupiter
Sun Conjunct Mars
Mercury Trine Saturn
Jupiter Square Saturn
Mercury Sextile Venus

And houses to boot:

Sun in Cancer and 3rd House
Moon in Libra and 7th House
Mercury in Cancer and 4th House
Venus in Taurus and 2nd House
Mars in Cancer and 3rd House
Retrograde Jupiter in Aquarius and 11th House
Retrograde Saturn in Scorpio and 8th House
Retrograde Uranus in Sagittarius and 9th House
Retrograde Neptune in Capricorn and 9th House
Retrograde Pluto in Scorpio and 7th House
Retrograde North Node in Taurus and 2nd House

posted January 31, 2009 04:44 AM           

Retrograde Nessus square Retrograde Saturn or Pluto is the placement that gives the ultimate potential for a negative minded individual to cause rape/murder the victim. This placement is prominent in Ted Bundy's chart. He also has Mars sq Asteroid DEJANIRA
(157)

Women with Nessus sq, opp or conjunct DEJANIRA exact in the Natal chart should always take extra care to prevent any sort of abuse/assault.

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posted January 31, 2009 05:02 AM           

That's actually a bit chilling, knowing that ted bundy has that placement ive always been terrified of being raped and murdered but have a full on interest in that too, studying psychology.

Yep, that's me. Queen of the Underworld. For some reason, the themes of pluto, hades/persephone, secret groups and the underbelly of society has always been something ive been drawn to, always been immersed in it.

But im a cancer, not a scorpio which i kinda dont get cos scorpio rules that stuff. Always felt more like a scorp, maybe cos my sth node is in scorpio, as well as saturn being in the 8th house, ruled by scorpio...

thats some good info there

posted January 31, 2009 05:30 AM           

Look at your birth number, it is 27. 2+7 = 9 and 9 is ruled by Mars which is the true ruler of Scorpio, even if every human being on the planet besides me believes Pluto rules Scorpio. However, afflicted Scorpio women are very often the victims of sexual abuse. The Node of Mars in 19 degrees Scorpio is a contributor as it also conjuncts a malefic fixed star. Your South Node is very close to 19 Scorpio. Saturn is also in Scorpio.

So you are a Cancerian with some Scorpio tendencies. Scorpios make excellent psychologists especially where sex is concerned. Cancer is the Master of intuitive empathy, knowing how much empathy to dish out by quickly studying body language and facial features and even noticing the changes of voice/breathing patterns.
Hence you will easily click as Psychologist.
[You have to learn NLP as well]

Your fear and insecurity are Cancerian negative traits. The Law of Attraction brings into your life what you focus, so remove fears of rape or abuse, focus on how they can be eliminated and focus on security.

BTW, I too have Aries Ascendant, Cancer Sun, and Libra Moon. We even have Venus in Taurus, Jupiter in an Air Sign [mine is Gemini] and Saturn in a fixed sign [mine is Leo].

I can save you 8 years worth of astrological mistakes

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posted January 31, 2009 06:03 AM           

Isn`t it interesting that in the myths there seems to be a repeated theme of abduction of women?
I just realized that Psyche, Proserpina and Deianira all have been abducted.
And it almost seems like a climax to the malevolent.

Eros abducts Psyche - but only because his mother tells him to (actually in a way he saves Psyche by abducting her)

Pluto abducts Proserpina - it starts as obsession but turns into love and he makes her the queen of the underworld

Nessus (tries to ) abduct Deianira - just to rape her (there is no love or planning of a future involved; it`s just for his own satisfaction, coming from a very dark place of lust and desire for power)

Sorry, I didn`t want to hijack that thread.

I myself may have a wide square between retograde Nessus on 28.2 Gemini and Deianira on 0.6 Aries; Deianira on 0° Aries also worries me, she`s very exposed there, isn´t she?

Or maybe the square is too wide to count?

posted January 31, 2009 06:15 AM           

I was an exotic dancer on and off for about 2 years. Funny that A LOT of the ladies I've met at clubs I used to work at, were cancers. I think Cancers and Scorpios are the signs I'd come accross more often with. Just in case, I did have a good time while doing it, no bosses, I pretty much worked whenever I wanted to and lots of money. Also it was like going out but instead of spending money, I'd bring lots of it. :P I did hate it sometimes, but it's just so easy to do, that it was kind of difficult to quit. I'm playing no victim here, I did have other choices, but this is what worked at the time. However I was clean dancer, no touching, no nothing else. (Moon in Cappy).

Also, my bf at the time, was psychologically and, in the end, also physically abusive.

Sorry about all this but..you asked! lol
This are my aspects if you're interested

Sun Cancer 5°05'59 in house 2 direct
Moon Capricorn 26°43'28 in house 9 direct
Mercury Gemini 20°57'58 in house 2 direct
Venus Leo 19°58'34 in house 3 direct
Mars Gemini 28°39'55 in house 2 direct
Jupiter Sagittarius 2°34'29 in house 7 retrograde
Saturn Libra 27°44'13 in house 6 stationary (D)
Uranus Sagittarius 5°58'01 in house 7 retrograde
Neptune Sagittarius 27°39'12 in house 8 retrograde
Pluto Libra 26°44'23 in house 6 retrograde
True Node Gemini 25°05'55 in house 2 retrograde

House positions (Placidus)Ascendant Taurus 18°50'44
2nd House Gemini 18°34'16
3rd House Cancer 21°50'11
Imum Coeli Leo 26°40'17
5th House Virgo 28°54'23
6th House Libra 26°05'56
Descendant Scorpio 18°50'44
8th House Sagittarius 18°34'16
9th House Capricorn 21°50'11
Medium Coeli Aquarius 26°40'17
11th House Pisces 28°54'23
12th House Aries 26°05'56

posted January 31, 2009 06:23 AM           

Wow, icq its like i always knew that stuff, just needed to hear it externally for it to be confirmed. Must be the psychic lol.

Yep, i actually know a scorpio man who is actually a certified psychopath career criminal, who's encountering his saturn return (late 20s) and just got out of prison so that's interesting.

I didn't know that about my numerology, my uncle is one (i got into astrology instead haha) and apparently ive had very scorpio mars/pluto type lives were its all about control issues and that, being both the abuser and abusee. I'm also an 11, which means im here to do great things apparently and that because of my karma from the past, when i stuff up then i cop karma harder than anyone cos of the responsibility associated with such a number. Apparently when its my saturn return (turn 27 on the 27th in 2012, coincidence or not? lol) i apparently get my powers and gifts back, having learned them properly.

As for being a psych, yeah totally but only cos ive lived in the shadows for so long. Not in my own family but from the hood i grew up in. I had issues with coercion and gray rape, been an exotic dancer and done a bit of high class escorting (thru domination and giving up power) and psych has just given perspective to all those negative experiences. By the way, whats NLP? interested to know!

And about the nearly identical natal charts! WOOOOOW i never though id ever hear of someone who has the same planets and that!! i thought i was an individual case cos my chart just isn't like your run of the mill chart.

Do tell...id love to hear about your 8yrs on me and what i got instore, lol. ANything i gotta watch out for??

posted January 31, 2009 06:38 AM           

Wow, ive only ever met 1 person who had the same bday as me, and she was a stripper too lol. I worked for 2yrs straight right in the heart of the city, i have to say in my experience a lot of dancers were yep, cancer, scorp, pisces but the big Vegas showgirl types who were top dogs, top of the rank (who all taught me haha) were Leos, aries and a few sagis, libras and a few gemini's, but yeah mainly water and fire signs.

thanks heaps xo

posted January 31, 2009 09:13 AM           

I do have some notes for this, I can mail them if you want to study this further. Top NLP coaching costs too much, I recommend books and websites if you want to add this to your repertoire.

The main weakness for an Aries Asc, Cancer and Libra Mooner:
Exhausting oneself by doing too much
Feeling insecure inspite of delivering much
Over-reactions and arguments that cause negative karmic debts
Tough Saturn Return, it will involve some very tough decision making.

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posted January 31, 2009 09:54 AM         

My very first relationship began when I was 16 was an obsessive one,lasted almost 6 years he didnt quit it many years after the breakup..

I looked at his placements today after your post, and guess what I found out: His nessus square my dejanira in 1 deg..

I looked at another one and saw his nessus conjunct my saturn (1 deg)..also squares my venus(3 deg) What does it mean?
also a little wide (3 deg.)but my nessus conjunct his mars..

posted January 31, 2009 12:27 PM           

a rapist had pecker conjunct venus sextile uranus.

posted January 31, 2009 12:29 PM         

Orcus: Orcus is a revealer, challenging or coercing us to get in touch with our deeper soul essence and purpose.

Mythological Orcus, being similar to the Greek underworld god Hyades, would seem to have a Pluto like character; and in addition, being associated with water. The Roman Orcus is said to be the god of oaths and the punisher of perjurers, apparently an extremist, being either terribly harsh or extremely gentle. I tend to take "punisher of perjurers" as referring to those who are not living or honoring their soul oaths--in essence living a lie.

"Orcus is working with the theme of exploration, of uncovering a blueprint or map that leads to a new picture, a new reality; to emerge from the belief structures and constructs of mind that are merely based upon the convenience of our collective consensus. In doing so, Orcus may force us to confront the fear and loneliness encountered when leaving the apparent safety of our past consensus of reality. Orcus may be helping us to uncover secret paths obscured by the sands of time, perhaps even oaths we made long ago to enter into the depths of unexplored territory, into new realms of consciousness, that lead us to a new law of life - eventually to a law or orientation that is in integrity to Heart. Orcus, although Pluto like, seems to express a quiet profundity, almost unnoticed as it serves us to get in touch with our deeper soul essence and purpose - the oath of the soul"

Orcus can symbolize "a person of one's word, who challenges broken promises, is aligned with a spiritual creed, and is accountable for personal thought, word and deed." On the more difficult side, he suggests, "hypocritical, fault finding in the ways of others, blame assigning, ducks responsibility for word and actions, unable to keep promises."

Francesco Sciavinotto suggests that this planet is involved in the fight for survival. I would add that there is a feeling of the ethics that one would apply or adopt when faced with such a fight, and the psychological and emotional steps toward getting there.

Orcus - A lord of the underworld. Orbital Period: 248.01 yr. a plutino.

Positive: a person of one’s word, challenges broken promises, aligned with a spiritual creed, accountable for personal thought, word and deed

Negative: hypocritical, fault finding in the ways of others, blame assigning, ducks responsibility for word and actions, unable to keep promises

Mundane: contracts, oaths to organizations, religions or countries, creeds

Ceremonial: declaring faith, writing creeds, channeling the latest cosmic downloads and formatting it into doctrine

*****************************************
Jonathan Dunn: "Orcus Keywords:

- depression or manic-depression; suicidal feelings; feelings of aloneness, persecution, or the absurdity of life; emotional fallout
- Those without evident depressiveness tend certainly toward being unemotional, impassive, or unresponsive.
- Also, another signature I keep seeing is "writing".

*****************************************
Francesco Schiavinotto: Orcus Keywords:

- Global Hazard
- Diseased World
- Dying World
- Poisoned Ecosystems
- Desertification
- Silent Apocalypse
- Environmental Collapse
- Blind Minds and their Consequences
- Man's Self-Destruction
- Forgotten/Offended Nature
- Planetary Rebellion
- The Fall of Similitudes with a Terrestrial Paradise
- Betrayals from a Betrayed Nature
- Alienated Behaviors versus Natural Laws
- Massive extermination
- Worldwide Drying
- Large-Scale Erosiveness
- Failed Competition for Survival
- Invasiveness
- Fight for Survival
- Intrusions in Stranger Environments
- Endeavors Aimed Towards the Boundary of the Achievable
- Brutal Intellectualism
- Political Overexcitement

____________________________________________

Ixion: Ixion embodies themes of the inner struggle between the tamed and civilized verses the wild and natural.

Ixion may bring to surface issues and experiences reflecting this inner conflict--to do that which is considered civilized (dictated by man's laws) or that which is more natural to the wild and free (renegade). In either case the paradox may arise for the civilized patriarch, now quite at odds with the wilder natural world, to take responsibility for doing that which is natural (whether for good or bad) especially when matters of fatality are involved.

Ixion brings the theme of dark, abusive and most of all unrepentant behavior. It is the 'unredeemable' aspect of human nature and 'that which we are all capable of'.

Ixion: Father of the Centaurs, and not a particularly nice fellow. Orbital Period: 246.78 yr. a plutino

Positive: understands karmic wheel, gives and uses a second chance, discerning

Negative: lustful, inconsiderate, inclined to repeat errors, learns nothing from experience

Mundane: second efforts and chances, reset buttons, cloud seeding, study of weather, watching clouds, lust or coveting of another's mate

Ceremonial: rain dances, purging fires, seeking master healers

*****************************************
Lorraine Valente: "Ixion Keywords: Wheel of Fortune as in the Tarot Deck - Fate or fated encounters; Parallel Universes or Realities"
*****************************************
Laurence Lucas: "Ixion Keywords: The transgressor, rule breaker, going beyond social morality of the moment, rage against God, Geneticist, Genetic abominations, alchemical mutation, exploring creation (as in science) without feeling. Being the father of the centaurs reveals the role of most of the centaurs is to radically transmute present reality, the challenge being to respect God enough to co-create, lessons only learnt from getting fingers burnt though. Nature on a higher turn of the spiral, where man C0-creates."
*****************************************
Mark A. Holmes: "Ixion Keywords: inventiveness; ingenuity; lust for life; the hubris that may come with ability; to incur guilt, a bad record or negative karma."
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Jonathan Dunn: "Ixion Keywords: overcoming shynes; pursuing professionalism & acceptability; sense of insecurity or inadequacy which leads one to polish and perfect"

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Sedna: Deep unconcious pain. Wounds from abuse, anger and betrayal.

When victimization moves to the goddess-level as it does with Sedna, (it) signals us that there's an extra depth of compassion for the abused. It also tells us that this goddess-archetype has the wherewithal to make a difference and empower that person whose (planets) are resonating with Sedna’s sphere of power.
Sedna may come to represent an extreme terrain of the unconscious, one where issues of power, authority and respect for life do not separate from a respect for oneself. The Inuit are animistic, seeing divinity in all things. Sedna may ask us to account for previously unconsidered forms of negligence towards ourselves and our living planet.

The encounter with what has been lost, drowned out, or frozen long ago, which can be taken most fruitfully on the inner levels. In other words, our own 'Ice Age': the wounds in the soul caused by the impatience, condemnation, dismissal or anger of the father; the living hell of unresolved outrage; the violence of hardship where we cut off from what is desperate and vulnerable in ourselves or others in order to survive. And how this harshness is internalized.

"Even in the face of unrelenting trauma and suffering, we can, indeed must, beat our drum and sing to life. This is not a plea for escapism, but rather an acknowledgement that the Work is about keeping our heart open in hell. Sedna's story is about acknowledging just how bad things really feel, and starting from there. Radical acceptance is demanded. Allowing love and harmony into our lives may mean opening to the frozen places inside where we are conflicted and feel unloving. To try and manufacture joy is to metaphorically cut off our own fingers."

*****************************************

Positive: a forgiving disposition, discernment, clarity of perception, recognition of free will and choice, responsible, conscious of consequence, far thinking, dharma-oriented, does the homework of life

Negative: victimization, abuse, being deceived, history of betrayal, bitterness, “gold digging” attitude in relationship, transfers blame to others, numbs out, goes unconscious

Mundane: blubber, products made from sea mammals, whaling, diving bells that go into the dark of the sea, emotional healing, forgiveness, sorrow, engagement, masks, flight of the birds

Ceremonial: cleansing in the sea, propitiation to the sea, sea creatures, use of sea creature talismans (walrus tusk carvings, scrimshaw), ceremony with masks of sea creatures, ceremonial masks in general

Sedna Keywords: Victim, sacrifice sometimes unavoidable: transformation of victimhood – losses, possibly emotional, in mundane house where Sedna is, particularly if afflicted: inevitable fate – destiny: not of this world – worlds in collision – not of this culture, not of this time: uncovering that which is hidden, remote, unseen: concealed and acting unseen in an inky blackness: search for new knowledge in an alien world: issues around preservation of that which is untouched, essential, numinous: purposeful activity fuelled by a burning inner spiritual drive not of the personality: superconscious perception which incorporates a multi-dimensional mystical universe: far-sighted intelligence: misperception of reality – delusional, self-deception: release of soul to the world of spirit in the process of dying: psychic/mediumistic – this world connected to the other: the suffering of the unloved, outcast, sick, homeless, limbless: Noah's ark – preservation of what would otherwise become extinct: buried alive – entombed: Thy Will, not my will: essence not personality: preservation of nature and ecosystems: receptive to a spiritual calling from afar: the power of water: in this world but not of it.

*****************************************
Jonathan Dunn:
"Sedna Keywords: respect; self-respect via respecting/integrating cultural values; getting respect via venerating history & established values; participation in veneration, and therefore getting cultural respect; cultural nobility/royalty; above the fray; putting on airs; rightly entitled cultural/historical representative; unquestionable; dignity which is deferred to; monuments / statues; respect / "class"; iconic status; identification with antiquity or with eternal icons and symbols
Special entitlement because one is better and special. Above the law, acting without any interruption from the hoi-palloi. Indiana Jones, James Bond, Jack Bauer - the only one for the job - must be allowed to act on their instincts without being questioned."

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Roy MacKinnon:
"If there is a phrase which really means something to me about Sedna it is NOT OF THIS WORLD. To me it has a most specific spiritual influence. You only have to think of Sedna's extraordinary orbit to realise that it wants to take you away from this world right to the very limits of the solar system. Exactly what the spiritual nature is, is something which is dictated by the planets aspecting Sedna. Adverse aspects may be connected to temptations to deviate from the path of a spiritual destiny to that of a more mundane, maybe even monetary one, where satisfactions are obtained in this life and not banked karmically."
"I think it is because self-interest is denied by Sedna that it mistakenly becomes associated with sacrifice. In truth Sedna doesn't deny the real self - only the mundane temporal self. In truth Sedna feeds the eternal self, that part of the very core of our being which aspires to holiness. It seems to me it is precisely because of this strong non-temporal influence that Sedna can be seen associated with events NOT OF THIS TIME or for that matter NOT OF THIS CIVILIZATION. Sometimes I see it active in death charts. In such cases it is signifying that the departed soul is NO LONGER OF THIS WORLD."
"Whatever it is that fuels the Sedna quality in someone it is usually unseen yet essential. Sedna works in the inky blackness unseen by the mundane world very often - it is not of the personality, it is of the essence, of the spirit. It is the fuel of the Refiner's Fire. It can be the signature of unending love from a family member to the self or of a lover but beware the love of the lover that it is not a delusion suffering from mistaken identity. It seems to me to be more like the signature of the right hemisphere of the brain, intuitve, non-logical, non-linear
rather than the strict logic of limited mathematical proof which, appropriate in its own right hemisphere domain, is very limited in the deep and darkness."
"Whatever carries this flavour, bears this subtle and almost intangible quality, exhibits this subtle nuance, is of the world of Sedna, difficult to perceive, just as difficult to describe but the characteristic flavour is unmistakeably unique."

____________________________________________

Eris: Competition. Discord. Striving.

Eris creates a disrupting commotion, but which leads to a new clarity of understanding with a new order to follow--sort of shaking up what is stagnant in consciousness which subsequently allows a greater clarity to emerge and a reorganization or new expression of what we are doing in our lives.

Positive - liberation from addictions to success or status, clear priorities regarding matters of love and money, finally getting you can't take it with you and applying full resourcefulness in life, recognition of the potency of one's energy and life force, clear sense of the sacred marriages: spirit to body, self to Creator, between soulful companions, personal sense of emergence.

Negative - greed, workaholism, believe that you must take over for God, general sense of being forsaken, condemned or abandoned, lack of spiritual regard for life, superficial, status oriented.

Mundane: promises and vows (both kept and broken), elections and election fraud, intervention by higher powers (troubleshooters, authorities, deity or God), using chaos and disruption as a method of reorganization - i.e., dumping a closet onto the floor, then reorganizing, things that overturn, the scales of justice, battles, disputes, famine, fightings, lawlessness (attributed to her moon, Dysnomia), lies, manslayings, murders, oath, oblivion, quarrels - and the last word therein, sorrows and toil, contention, rivalry, loved the spilling of blood on the battlefield, the fifth day of the month, gluttony, gloating, the nurse of war, women wearing men’s uniforms (sports players, women in the military, astronauts)

Ceremonial: capitulation ceremonies, vows to create order from chaos, intent to right wrongdoing, abundance ceremonies

*****************************************
Roy MacKinnon: "Eris: Striving to achieve one's goals and refusing to capitulate to the pressure of unjust treatment and discord from abusive authority : with great inner conviction and single-mindedness of purpose following a path of high attainment and enlightenment notwithstanding adversity - alternatively refusing the call to transform with mediocrity and underachievement as consequences: issues around power abuse of minorities, the defenseless, the alien: networks, multinational countries and companies, the world- wide web: piracy, terrorism, clash of ideologies: conflict between desires of personality and pursuit of the inner call: persecution of the spiritually aware person who stands alone courageously acting according to conscience: an outstanding individual ahead of the times."
*****************************************
Zane B. Stein: "Eris Keywords: Loss of innocence, entrance into adulthood; child's trauma being separated from parent; acceptance of unavoidable changes; dying and being reborn (as opposed to Pluto which rules the causes/processes of death and rebirth); internal split causing longing to be whole, the longing of the soul for its other half; the subject/object of a debate, argument, competition, conflict or war...what stirs people to fight or disagree; fighting for one's rights; strife and discord; pitting one side against the other; competition, contests and tournaments; struggles for supremacy; rivalry; a test of skills or abilities; love of fighting or debate; what one has at stake in a competition, dispute or conflict, or one's perspective of what is being fought over; refusing to relinquish one's hold on an ideal, belief, cause, or object...'not budging an inch'; the problems resulting from irreconcilable differences; contrasting different perspectives; comparing thesis and antithesis in the search for truth; contrasting opposing viewpoints to reveal each side more clearly, to seek similarities as well as differences; contrasting logical thought processes to show the limitations of logic; identifying with, or trying to understand, first principles; incongruous juxtapositions to force one to think outside of the box; the ethics connected with one's motives and methods, and the coming to light of less than spotless methods; the roots of one's motivations; piracy, defrauding, swindling; society's ethics; race intent."
*****************************************
Francesco Schiavinotto: "Eris Keywords: Dam; Damming; Obstruction; Obliteration; To be opposite; Aversion for the Extraneous; To obstacle the Alien; False Adaption between Different Matters; Reciprocal Aversion; Feeling to be Invaded; Resistance; Incommunicability; Controversial Figure; Ecological Incompatibility; Underground Instability"
*****************************************
Jonathan Dunn: "Eris Keywords: mobilization, tirelessness, restlessness, endless energy -
pursuing interests, avoiding boredom sublimated/repressed energy looking for outlets - ultimately the outlet of transcendence itself ...
also: I've seen most people with celibate leanings have strong Eris, though of course this is not the most common manifestation of the energy
Basically, (Carl) Jung believed that mental energy is created through the conflict of opposites. He said, "there is no energy unless there is a tension of opposites" (Jung, Two Essays 63). He called this energy libido. It is to be distinguished from Freud's definition of libido, in that Freud saw it only as pertaining to sexual desire, whereas Jung viewed libido as psychic energy in general. According to Jung, libido is the vital impulse of human life."

posted January 31, 2009 12:39 PM         

Chiron: Powerful healing energy, overcoming disabilities and set backs.

*****************************************
Zane B. Stein:
"Chiron Keywords: Healing, wholemaking, maverick, quest, guide, key, doorway, kairos, loophole, qualifier, Teacher, Guru, Mentor, Fosterparent, Turning Point, Now, Catalyst, Bridge, Link, Steppingstone, Passageway, Common Ground, Union of Opposites, Holistic, Personal Imperative, Pulling the Plug, Balance, Mediator, The Passage from Dependence to Independence, Turning the Corner, Therapy, a Koan [in Zen Buddhism], A Wound that will not Heal, a way to break free of a matrix, Synergism, Essence."

*****************************************

The influence of Chiron is thought to partake of both the material and psychological realities of Saturn and the inventive mental perspectives of Uranus; and it can manifest in its expression as either the inherent conflicts between these energies, or their smoother-integrated combination, and the anchoring of Uranian wisdom and understanding in reality. It challenges the individual to bridge the disparity between the Saturnian and Uranian principles, bringing inner transformation and the healing of Saturnian restrictions in the process.

Chiron is believed to signify the ability to heal others; belief in the superiority of one's own knowledge and ways; the challenging of limited established perspectives and views with original or different ones; education and teaching ability; an exaggerated sense of personal suffering and affliction; the expansion of the universal perspective beyond materialism or dualism while retaining its anchoring in matter; freedom from restrictive cultural, parental or societal ideas or codes related to its sign and house placement; the handling of the crisis of adolescence whereby individuation is sought but parental allegiances and family pressures and values remain binding; higher knowledge that can be taught outwardly to the world or inwardly as guidance to the spirit; holistic understanding; liberation through compassion; medicine; the opening of the heart to suffering; rebellious, wilful nonconformity; the search for a cure; the seeking of means to circumvent established rules and codes; self-healing from within; and the union of mind with body and intellect with instinct.

Chiron's placement in signs where it is closer to or within the orbit of Saturn stresses its more practical and personal side; while its placement in signs where it is closer to the orbit of Uranus emphasises its more mental and transpersonal side.

When within the orbit of Saturn, around 20º Leo to 27º Scorpio, Chiron confers the strongest centering in the self; a sense of being unprotected by boundaries from the outside world; sensitivity to the integrated oneness of the universe; a tendency to construct artificial boundaries and defence structures such as intellectualisation, immersion in the collective, or pushing oneself outwards into society, in order to compensate for this insecurity; a tendency to project parental filters onto the transpersonal or divine realm; and sometimes an inclination, whether overtly or subtly, to make demands of others, and to feel the need to be the centre of attention.

When at the orbit of Saturn, around 10º-20º Leo or 27º Scorpio to 7º Sagittarius, Chiron confers an equal connection with the inner (personal) and outer (transpersonal) realms of existence, bringing confusion as to whether one is responding to the outside world or it is responding to oneself. It confers at once the capability to rapidly translate internal changes into outward realities; and a strong intuitive impressionability in response to changes in the outside world.

When outside the orbit of Saturn, around 7º Sagittarius to 10º Leo, Chiron brings a lack of centering in the self, bringing a relative freedom from ego, together with a feeling of having sustained a fundamental loss of some facet of the self or the awareness thereof; the need to regain what is lost; the seeking of learning and development through connection with and involved activity in the outside world; and the aptitude for concretising whatever inspirations and discoveries are made on that journey. If moving towards aphelion (its furthest distance from the Sun), Chiron outside the orbit of Saturn brings greater social involvement. If moving towards perihelion (its closest distance to the Sun), Chiron outside the orbit of Saturn focuses more on the quest for inner rediscovery.

Furthermore, whatever its distance at the moment of birth, if natal Chiron is approaching perihelion, the life direction is shown to favour the outward expression of the existing personal world, while if it is approaching aphelion it favours the intake of transpersonal or spiritual energies.

Aspects to Chiron connect the significations of the aspected planet to an intuitive higher understanding. Harmonious aspects promote the personal search for uniqueness, rewarding it, while inharonious ones manifest as an apparent rejection and inhibition of the expression of the personal vision, mostly stemming from internal conflict and the seeking to present outwardly one's originality and differences from others (in manners and areas indicated by the sign and house placement of Chiron), which frequently manifests antagonistically and irritatingly to others, who therefore show resistance. Afflictions to Chiron can also show limitations to understanding; overreliance on authority or dogma; self-doubt; or spiritual disquiet.

Transits of Chiron manifest in the breaking of rules; connections with the expectations of parents or authorities; delays and restrictions beleaguing desired life changes; interactions with mentors; and turning points in life.

In synastry, Chiron promotes exchanges of an educational and healing nature.

Chiron has also been described as the Rainbow Bridge....the link between the Inner and Outer Planets and it is the identification of the Chironian issues in ones life that assists with the linking between the Inner and Outer Planets and thus the integration of the Soul and Personality .
In psychological terms, Chiron is the Inner Teacher to whom we owe our allegiance. The cluster of astrological ingredients surrounding it may symbolise the tests, disciplines and ordeals which unfold under the tutelage of this Inner Teacher, whose path is Life itself, whether or not this includes following a particular spiritual tradition. Major crises of learning experiences can be reflected by any factor in the horoscope, but they are likely to be interpreted and processed in a manner congruent with the Chiron configuration. We also have to remember that Chiron represents the Wound/The Wounder/The Healer in our chart.
At present Chiron’s themes in the lives of individuals can be clearly observed to operate most strongly through the Mutable Cross, especially Sagittarius (9th) and Virgo (6th).
Working with the personal issues that Chiron represents in our horoscope provides a means of grounding ourselves in our humanity and also defining our unique contribution to this transition in which we are all participating in at this time. When the Age of Aquarius is more established perhaps it will then be seen to work through the Fixed Cross, possibly ruling Scorpio and being exalted in Leo.
Some will be more sensitive to Chiron’s energies than others. If there are one or more of the conditions below, Chiron may be considered focal in a particular horoscope; in this person’s life Chironian themes may be dominant and will be strongly activated when any outer planet transits part of the Chiron configuration.
- Chiron conjunct any of the Angles
- Chiron conjunct or square the Moons Nodes
- Chiron aspecting many planets, especially if the Sun, Moon and/or Asc Ruler are among them
- Chiron focal according to the shape of the chart eg as handle of a "bucket shaped chart", or as the leading planet of a "bowl shaped" chart, or in the middle of a stellium, or in hard aspect to the midpoint of an empty hemisphere or quadrant.
- Sagittarius or Virgo on the MC or ASC
- Chiron in either Sagittarius or Virgo
- A stellium of Planets in Sagittarius or Virgo

The image of Chiron’s Cave, the Chironian, has been suggested for the house in which Chiron is found. This evocative image certainly seems applicable, in that by house,
Chiron focuses on those areas where we may feel pain and encounter difficulties, as well as where we seek to express our unique individuality. We may avoid "coming out into the light" of this area of life experience, hiding ourselves away in pain, like Chiron with his incurable wound; we may only be able to enter this domain of life in a supercharged or heroic manner, like Chiron emerging as the Healer and Mentor of Heroes.
Another image for Chiron’s house position is taken from Buddhism where we consider Chiron to be the Inner Teacher, its house and sign often describe important lessons which we are here to learn. These lessons represent the inner goal of the journey, rather than anything external, and involve the Middle Path or ‘right way’. This is not ‘right’ as opposed to ‘wrong’ but rather than which is ‘appropriate’ in order for us to fulfill our individual dharma - our realisation of Universal law and our part in the totality of existence.
Before the Middle Path is found and appreciated, Chiron tends to manifest in a wounded "all or nothing" way. With maturity and surrender, however, a feeling of rightness may come, often having means or overtones of connection with the dharma, with some context larger than ourselves; this is Chiron`s gift to us....
In addition, planets aspecting Chiron here represent inner and outer forces with which we must contend, lest they pull us away from the dharma.

Examples of Chiron’s representing by house:
1st House: Appropriate initiative or action
2nd house: Appropriate values, or use of resources
3rd House: Appropriate communication, thought and speech
4th House: Appropriate emotional bonds and attitude to family
5th House Appropriate self expression and creativity
6th House: Appropriate form of service to others, and respect for the body
7th House: Appropriate relationships
8th House: Appropriate attitude to death and sexuality
9th House: Appropriate attitude to possibilities
10th House: Appropriate vocation and participation in society
11th House: Appropriate ideals and friendships
12th House: Appropriate renunciation

Chiron in the 1st:
With Chiron in the 1st, the wounding can occur early in life. For instance, one woman I know with this placement was born with a condition commonly called 'brittle bones'. Because of her delicate state, the doctors advised her mother that the child should not be picked up or held, and in this way, as an infant, she was deprived of a necessary physical solace and closeness. Other placements in her chart indicate a very powerful will, and she bravely worked within the limitations of her handicap to become strong and self-sufficient. At the time of our reading, transiting Uranus was conjunct her 1st house Chiron and she was hoping to begin a training as a physiotherapist.
Another example is an artist born with Chiron in Sagittarius in the 1st house conjunct the Ascendant. Severely stricken with an atrophying disease of the nervous system, he nonetheless used what strength he had to teach painting to young people. Although Chiron chose to die, he was rewarded by the gods for his good work by being made part of a constellation in the heavens for all to see for all eternity. Similarly, although this man died while still in his early thirties, like the immortal Chiron his memory and influence live on through his paintings and the future artwork of those he taught.
Both these people personify the wounded-healer/teacher nature of Chiron and serve as a source of inspiration not only for disabled individuals but also for many of the able-bodied people who have known them.
In her study of the charts of sixty-nine healers/therapists Eve Jackson found that eleven of these had Chiron in the 1st.

Chiron in the 2nd:
The ability Chiron had to apply spiritual, philosophical and ethical insights to everyday life and practical matters is highlighted with Chiron in the 2nd. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, whose pioneering work in the field of death and dying has been of practical use to both dying people and their families, was born with Chiron in Taurus in the 2nd. Her work came to the fore just as Chiron was returning to its own place in her chart (Chiron's cycle is roughly 50 years).
I have also seen Chiron in the 2nd in the chart of two people who suffered great pain through bankruptcy and financial collapse, and yet used the experience to broaden their philosophical and psychological understanding of life and themselves.

Chiron in the 3rd:
A woman who cured herself of cancer using special diets and visualization techniques is now writing and distributing information about combating the illness in these ways: she has Chiron in Sagittarius in the 3rd house of communication. I have observed this placement in the charts of other people who write on the subject of medicine and healing.
Their wounding may come during adolescence and the growing-up years. Some with this placement may have difficulty fitting into the early schooling situation or have learning or speech difficulties. In a few cases, those with Chiron here had brothers or sisters who were ill or afflicted in some way, and their formative years were marked by the need to be sensitive to their sibling's condition.

Chiron in the 4th:
If the 4th house is taken to be the father, then he may carry the Chiron projection. The child with this placement may be exceptionally sensitive to his wounds, or view the father as a kind of teacher or mentor. One woman I know with Sun conjunct Chiron in the 4th was, as a young girl, abandoned by her father shortly after her mother died of cancer. This early rejection contributed to her receptivity to the pain, needs and feelings of other people.
It is possible that in the later years of life, those with this placement may develop a latent interest in various forms of healing.

Chiron in the 5th:
The 5th house is associated with children and young people, and those with this placement could serve as teachers to the young. One woman with Chiron here overcame heroin addiction and now works helping adolescents with drug problems.
It has already been mentioned that Chiron's house placement may show where our earthly physical drives and desires could conflict with pulls towards something transcendent, pure and divine. I did a chart for a very religious man with Chiron in the 5th who was tortured by sexual desires for pubescent girls and boys. Through psychotherapy and prayer, he has successfully transmuted these urges into constructive channels and expresses his love of children by working as a tutor and counsellor for `problem' adolescents.
Prince Charles is born with Chiron conjunct his Sun in the 5th house of creative self-expression. Eve Jackson quotes from an interview he gave: `Ever since I was a child, I've been interested in medical matters and in the business of healing — I've always wished I could heal: In recent years he has expressed his wholehearted support and enthusiasm (5th house) for holistic medicine.

Chiron in the 6th:
To some degree, Chiron suffered by being trapped in a body he didn't like. I have seen this placement in the charts of a few people who felt uncomfortable or limited within the physical body. One was an unusually tall woman and another a rather short man. However, the kind of psychological adjustments that they had to make contributed to their sensitivity and understanding of the pain of other people. The man in question has worked extensively and productively with handicapped people of all ages.
Recalling Chiron's holistic approach to medicine, this placement shows up frequently in the charts I have seen of therapists who work with the body — those who use neo-Reichian techniques, massage, and herbal remedies, etc.
Since Chiron was so adept in the art of survival skills, it is likely that those with Chiron in the 6th have the potential to master practical crafts such as cooking, sewing or other kinds of useful handiwork.

Chiron in the 7th:
With this placement, it is possible that the nature of Chiron could be projected onto the partner, who might be seen as obviously wounded, either physically or psychologically. Or it may be that the partner is viewed as a kind of teacher or wise mentor. Conversely, those with Chiron here could act as a teacher to another person.
Chiron's feeling of rejection can come through a relationship if this planet is placed in the 7th. The hurt of a painful separation from a loved one may bring up deep wounds which soften, sensitize and transform even the most hard-hearted people. Or they could experience frustration at the discrepancy between an idealized notion of love and the reality before them.

Chiron in the 8th:
Those with Chiron in the 8th may be sensitive to sexual rejection, or feel inadequate or confused about their sexual identity. Strong libidinal drives could conflict with their more spiritual or religious inclinations.
It is likely that they are extremely receptive to any painful undercurrents in the atmosphere, and possess latent healing abilities which they should be encouraged to develop. Some may be able to teach others about the deeper mysteries or subtle dimensions of life. The 8th house is associated with death, and those with this placement may want to study the example of the famous centaur who chose death with peace and equanimity.

Chiron in the 9th:
The 9th house will highlight Chiron's ability to take intuitive and innovative insights and apply these in a practical manner. They are likely to make very capable teachers. The highly respected and deep-thinking astrologer John Addey was born with Chiron in Aries in the 9th house conjunct the Midheaven. Crippled with an incurable form of rheumatism, he worked as a teacher for disabled people. Furthermore, he once remarked that he would have probably been all too happy to spend his days between golf and horses had it not been for his illness which forced him to stay still for a moment and reflect on life. His wound impelled him to turn his attention to the 9th house matters of philosophy and astrology. With the clarity and finesse of the mythological Chiron, Addey related the abstract and theoretical concept of harmonics in a practical way to chart analysis.

Chiron in the 10th:
Any planet in the 10th will be linked to career and profession. Of the sixty-nine charts of healers /therapists EveJackson studied, fifteen of these had Chiron in the 10th. In short, the person's function in the world could well reflect the healing qualities of the Greek Chiron. Nevertheless, Chiron was unsure where he fitted in — he was half divine and half animal, and those with Chiron here may be uncertain of how they are to fit into society, of the role they are meant to play in the collective scheme of things.
A 10th house Chiron may also describe a feeling of rejection by the mother, and the consequent psychological pain and growth that stems from such an experience. It is also possible that the mother might have carried the Chiron projection — she was seen as wounded or afflicted in some way or conversely mirrored Chiron's healing and philosophical nature.

Chiron in the 11th:
Those with Chiron in the 11th could be involved in the running of various kinds of therapy or healing centres. They might be sensitive to the pain in society and perhaps concerned with helping or teaching those who are oppressed or downtrodden. There may be a nagging fear of rejection or slight within the context of groups and friendships or some hurt incurred through such involvements. Ultimately this pain could act as a catalyst for further self-knowledge and self understanding.
Friends may carry any of the connotations of Chiron — either people involved in the healing /teaching profession or those who are obviously psychologically or physically vulnerable. Those with Chiron here may serve as mentors to their friends, or look to their associates for guidance, direction and support.

Chiron in the 12th:
In Eve Jackson's study, the third most frequent position of Chiron in the charts of healers /therapists is the 12th house. Of these, two distinct groups were noted: those who practised `spiritual healing', such as the laying on of hands or even absent healing and those who worked primarily with dreams or guided imaging. I did a chart for a woman disabled from birth who has the Sun conjunct Chiron in the 12th; she now works as a psychological counsellor in a hospital (12th house of institutions).
For those with Chiron in the 12th, unhealed wounds may be buried deep in the unconscious or stem from a difficult pre-natal experience. The psychologist Arthur Janov, author of The Primal Scream, was born with Chiron in the 12th in Aries: he feels that the way to reconnect to one's true power and vitality (Aries) is through releasing these deeply entrenched early traumas.
Reincarnationists might propose that those with 12th house Chirons have had connections with healing or teaching in previous lives. In any case, those with this placement have the potential to tap a rich source of practical wisdom stored in the recesses of their own psyches.

David Pond:
"Where Chiron is in your chart is where you can’t accept a garden-variety experience of what your culture offers. You’ll have to recognize that would be wounding for you.

Chiron in the 1st house: we are in a culture that glorifies the self quite a bit. You would have to find some way of self growth yet still benefit others. “The more I become the more I have to give” is a good way to describe Chiron in the 1st house.

Chiron in the 2nd house: issues with security and money. In our culture we learn that security is 1) a defense posture and 2) something we never get. Constant chase for security for a little bit more above what we have. With Chiron you have to get outside the cultural attitude in order to feel connected to what makes you feel secure. A walk out in nature is a good way to feel the life force around you and feel a deeper sense of security.

Chiron in the 3rd: the way you use your mind and gather information. Where do you get your information – from TV, popular press? “You are what you think, you become what you once thought.” “Think as if all your thoughts where written across the sky for all to read.”

Chiron in the 4th house: you must find your place on the planet and your connection to Earth. The climate and vegetation must work, must be a sacred place for you.

Chiron in the 5th house: tied to your creativity and children. It is important to live a life born out of the heart, to access that creativity by simply jumping into the house energy. You will find that the way culture defines fun won’t fit. Find a higher path in dealing with children than the cultural norm.

Chiron in the 6th house: attitudes around health, culture and diet. We are in a culture that doesn’t realize how food is related to health. Probably the “cultural” diet doesn’t work for you and would need to seek a new diet that would help your spiritual quest.

Chiron in the 7th house: the type of relationships that culture says should work for you – that is your wound. Your relationships need to have a higher dimension, have a quest. The relationship would be a vehicle of consciousness growth.

Chiron in the 8th house: the type of intimacy that culture offers would not be satisfying. You need a deeper type of intimacy, sacred sexuality, tantra sexuality.

Chiron in the 9th house: the education, philosophy and spiritual quest of your culture. Similar to Chiron in the 12th; it is important for you not to accept the political and religious views you grew up with. Your path and destination is the seeking for something else.

Chiron in the 10th house: The Tenth House is the home of the soul's desire. It's the place where we align purpose and action. Put simply, it's what we most want to be when we grow up, because being "that" will answer a calling deep within. This longing could include the need for material success, but it could just as easily stir a desire for spiritual accomplishment. So it's not surprising you're at a career crossroads. The Tenth House with Chiron is often enough of a milestone to inspire other people too. When the person pushes the limits for himself at this time, it’s possible that he is also setting the bar a little higher for others. If he follows his gut feelings, he will break all the rules. This cycle of Chiron reflects the sort of professional audacity that can even change his life’s course. (by Ralfee Finn)

Chiron in in the 11th House: Placement of Chiron here often gives deep connection to the psyche and the collective unconscious, but there are usually blocks to overcome. Here the wound is usually a sense of disconnection, distance, isolation and alieation from the world and from the Universe. This feeling of being unable to fit in may make us reject the tenets of groups or society, but the longing to belong remains.
Often, due to the sensitivity to the collective, people with this Chiron placement will be forward thinking and may be rejected by groups and society simply because they are ahead of their time - shades of 'discovery' here.
Try listing the special ways in which you are connected to life, to others, to the world and to the Universe. List the benefits and gifts of feeling alone, isolated and alienated. Also list the ways in which your 'differentness' is a gift and blessing to you and others. Write your thoughts and dreams in a journal. (by Melanie Reinhart)

Chiron in the 12th House: Your cultural religion probably doesn’t work for you. You have to seek outside, and the seeking is your destiny."

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Transition through awareness. Bringing shadow to the light. Standing out, not fitting any known category, doing things one's own way, and solving the problem oneself. The gift of responding to life's challenges, injuries, difficulties and moments of change through gradually focusing awareness, growth and learning.

Developing great compassion for self and others. Seeking knowledge and truth, wisdom and teachings. Relates to those dedicated to the healing fields.

* A common consense appears to be that Chiron is connected with topics like wounding, illness, healing, shamanism and holism. To my understanding Chiron seems especially connected to turning points in life through the experience of illness, pain, accidents and woundings of any kind, be it physical or psychological. During this events and crises Chiron appears to "investigate" or even "x-ray" our soul and personality to reveal its basic structure with all its deficiencies. Often this marks the beginning of a transformation process, where we cannot get rid of the fatigue but can learn to live with it and develop a higher level of consciousness. In contrary to Saturn, which normally is more connected with patient enduring of "fortune" and "fate" and with the tenacious working towards healing, Chiron tries to give us more inner freedom and understanding for our suffering with the help of a new consciousness and worldview. Chironic therapies are more directed to find the "inner key" for the healing process, which finally helps us to understand the deeper meaning and psychological roots of the painful symptoms and which also help us to rid ourselves from frustration, which often accompanies crises and illnesses. With this we gain an inner relief and relaxation, which accelerates the healing process without deny (which is often the case with Uranus) or fatalistic resignation and depression (Saturn).

* Chironic humour: tendency to sarkasm (first pointed out by the German astrologer Hans-Jürgen Walter in an article about Monty Python). Opens us for the curiosities, unusual point of views, hidden truths and new horizons and dimensions, which are often very paradox and hard to understand for our intellect and ratio by the way. Chiron appears to give us a new level of awareness above earthly and material matters. So it prepares us in some way for Uranus and the outer trans-Saturnian realm in common. Chiron gives us the first glimpse what could be beyond the Saturnian boundaries although we feel often perplexed and disturbed, sometimes also amused.

* Some problematic Chiron: resignated indifference, apathy, agony, emptiness, absence of any humour. Liz Greene's experience is that Chiron is often connected with bitterness: we feel responsible for things we cannot be responsible, similar to the endless world-weariness of Pisces.

* Chiron opens us a door or floodgate through which uncontrollable energies, emotions, invades and overwhelm us (also in synastry, Zane Stein wrote about it)

* Chironic transformations: to find a balance between physical vulnerability and the independence and superiority of the spiritual higher self.

* Confrontation with paradoxes: the "Koan"-effect. Chiron is referring to trans-Saturnian realms, which are confusing us. For example: the effect of synchronicity (as C.G. Jung described so profoundly) of different levels and times (e.g. relativity theory). Time is just another dimension, nothing absolute, like it is for Saturn. A different but also important topic is Chiros versus Chronos.

* Two sides of the same coin: the healing arts and the arts of war. Everything, which can heal can also kill, it just depends on the dosis, so again we have a connection to the balance-theme (Libra).

* Chiron as a teacher: real and deep mediation of knowledge and experience is only possible from person to person, like a Kabbala, in an intimate and loving relationship between teacher and pupil. The chironic relationship is initiating us into something. It is located exactly in the middle between respect, authority, tradition, high esteem (Saturn) and parity, openess, equality, unconventionality (Uranus) and is often vulnerable and fragile. Real learning is to gain a new consciousness in the moment when we are touched and when something resonates in us.
Music, culture and the arts: healing is often possible only through creative doing, for example in the arts, painting therapy, music therapy ... To free oneself from reality's boundaries through unusual angles, to find access to hidden dimensions and deeper knowledge. The arts on the other hand often give us a feeling for the eternity and holistic point of view of mankind, nature and life.

* To encounter and meet people who are key person for our life, but still can be difficult and imperfect personalities.

* There is a question as to whether Chiron has a deeper connection to Libra: the balance theme and to be in the domicile there, where Saturn is only in its exaltation, Capricorn, which is the domicile of Saturn, has a square to Libra, which could reflect the problematic relationship between the mythological Chiron and its father, Chronos.

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posted January 31, 2009 12:44 PM         

Pholus:

The ending of an old life and the beginning of a new, higher life.

Small cause, big effect. Pholus has the property of release from situations, opening to possibilities, and emerging into new states of existence. It is the Centaur of fast-moving changes, or rapid transformations, typically initiated by one's own action, minor though it may seem. Catalyst. A person with a prominent natal Pholus is in his actions guided by impulses whose motivation he is not really aware of. Actually, he is confronted with energies or parts of his nature that are not incarnated, i.e. that hang over life. They hang over or about him like a cloud (Neptune, the aphelion of Pholus) and urge towards incarnation (Saturn, Pholus´ perihelion) within the material world. In other words: Pholus stands for parts of our nature from which we are still cut off and with which we try to get into contact. The parts in question may be those which cannot be soundly unfolded, or on the other hand a domain where the person intently strives for and with time even reaches great progresses. Pholic impulses are blind in a sense. They press on being realized even if they do not "know", what could be their appropriate place in the actual order of life. On the contrary, they are in conflict with the established conditions. The person in question may feel impelled to actions, motions or gestures that give rise to disastrous life situations. So, Pholus finds himself in a strain between self-destruction and enlargement of his own character by additional energies or horizons of experience. The pholic person walks on the narrow path of great and seemingly easy success, with the risk of catastrophic slips. Whatever happens, afterwards the person is altered. He has broken with his past, has stripped off an old skin, has got over a rocky edge and unexpectedly attained a wonderful tableland, or else is stumbled over it into a precipice.

Pholus in the natal chart is indicative of issues relating to both Saturn and Neptune, i.e. feelings, emotions, sacrifice, dreams, chaos, all Neptunian stuff and the Saturnine influence of order, duty, restriction and control. In aspect to a natal planet Pholus could indicate something we’re not yet fully aware of, something that is waiting to manifest. Perhaps something from our past is restraining us, is keeping it under control. It may become a pressing issue that we blindly and impulsively act upon only to find it has disastrous results. On the other hand, it may lead us to achieve great things. Pholus also has a mediumistic quality, a connection to ‘the other world’ and the ability to get in touch with it.
Aspects from Pholus indicate matters (as identified by the aspected planets) from which the consciousness remains disconnected, although there is potential for such a connection being developed. Impulses governed by the aspected planets may therefore be blind, hasty and disastrous in outcome. But with regard to more intangible realms, Pholus confers a visionary and mediumistic capability.

Pholus signifies impulses consciousness of which is only partial, and consciousness of whose motivation is absent, and has been associated with drug addiction, and the renewal of dreams and visions. Aspects from Pholus indicate matters (as identified by the aspected planets) from which the consciousness remains disconnected, although there is potential for such a connection being developed. Impulses governed by the aspected planets may therefore be blind, hasty and disastrous in outcome. But with regard to more intangible realms, Pholus confers a visionary and mediumistic capability.

Transits from Pholus to the nativity intensify the natal points contacted, and bring sudden insight inciting unusual courses of action with unpredictable consequences. Transits by conjunction to the angles bring rapid changes via temporary instability.
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Laurence Lewis: "Keywords: Liquid light, immortal memory, intoxication of unlimited potentials, virtual reality; reality as virtual, new age euphoria, spiritual hypermarket, reality meltdown, fluidity, dissolving structures, seduction of the soul into body, consciousness virus, inevitable, undermining stability, nothing sacred, stargate, 11:11, Awe, Galactic potentials, Impermanent history, transient archeology, future as ancient past, timewave, surreal atmosphere, Ecstasy, Galactic shamanism"

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Robert von Heeren:
* During transits: a blizard-like surprising "kick" or decision, a spontaneous urge for a fast and radical transformation of oneself often accompanied with euphoria and blind venturesomeness.

* Spontanous and in most cases an easy "shaping of skin" and transformation/change and completely ignoration of any risks.

* To eliminate and to make permeable limits and boundaries in an Uranian style so that alien energies can penetrate them, we experience these alien energies often as "chaotic" and unordered.

* To be cast or to be catapult through the "door" into absolute newland and new dimensions, in which you often feel overtaxed and there is no return to the previous state so you have to develop new abilities and cope with the new situation.
the sudden, unpredictable dissolver and bringer of chaos

* the vabanque-player

* to bring something into flow with the help of an initial ignition, to initiate a chain reaction

* "small cause, big effect"

* the catalyst

* a faux pax or mishap, which causes a chain reaction of tragic events

* the comic of a misfortune even if it's tragic

* the bone of contention or the stumbling-stone

* disturbations or detours turn out to be important tasks and lessons and bring you totally new perspective and point of view/awareness (in Greek mythology this is called a parergon, a sideway-story)

* genius and madness are close together with a strong Pholus in the chart

* the catalyst and provider for a landslide-like change (in history for example) and turning points.

* Pholus exaggerates energies in their raw state, Pholus is an amplifier, especially during transits when he passes his perihelion

* vague precognitions, which later turn out to be true, but were too unclear to grasp them clearly before, but there is always a tension

* slip of tongues, accidents due to mishaps, which are often funny (for others) besides of their tragic

* the danger of self-sabotage because the unconsciousness often takes over control

* transits: confrontation with deficits, undeveloped/un-incarnated energies, to feel spured on something or driven to do something although the reason is not clear, a tendency to self-punishment

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Darrelyn Gunzburg: "In dealing with grief when Pholus is strong in a chart, there are always two options: blindness to the issue or visionary power; naivety and deception or access to sacred imaginal knowledge."

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Juan Antonio Revilla: "Keywords: Luciferian, the Fall. a pterodactyl, a vulture. an angel, a trickster. intelligence operations, a spy. metamorphoses, overflow, invasion. orphanhood, outcast, untamed. the nobility of the wild. communion of two worlds. predator, shamanism. a wolf. exodus. clash of cultures. dispossessed, homeless, waste, the enchanted forest. torrential rain, a waterfall. incongruity, drunkenness. danger, a hunter. un-conditioning, looseness. homeless, a nomad. the butterfly and the moth. illumination, rapture, euphoria."

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7066 Nessus:

Nessus runs between just outside Saturn and beyond Neptune towards Pluto and has a period of 124 years. It signifies emotions and psychological urges of which consciousness would be personally liberating and beneficial; self-liberation through the embracing of one's less accepted inwardly burning emotions as a valid component of self; the tendency to interpret the present through the filter of psychological complexes inherited from the past; awareness of the patterns of interaction between people, locations and matter; deep-seated psychological motivations (including vengeance and recompense for and transition from past hurts) for sexual desire and lust; the development of integrity and self-empowerment; levels of personal empowerment or disempowerment conditioned by past experiences with others; illusory promises of salvation whose unveiling is liberating and protecting; and repercussions of treachery and power misuse.

The awareness of our vulnerability against darkness, abuse, and emotional death. The return of karma; situations that travel circular paths, or extend with unforeseen consequences. Conspiracy with a point of origin. The healing of abuse, including insidious kind that doesn't seem like much, until one looks closely; and the kind that was obviously so, but potentially overlooked. Nessus talks about abuse patterns in the family of origin, and how they manifest psychologically in adults.

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Robert Von Heeren:

* A connection with strong and powerful emotions, affects, passions and jealousy reveal a relation between Nessus and Pluto

* Nessus is probably the strongest Centaur among the first three, and often a "nasty" guy

* the feeling to do something "rightous" even if it's cruel (assassins or intruders often think so) and in the worst case an absolute unhuman, blind fanatism

* to be forced to deep and sudden (this is non-Plutonian!) transformation by intense and sudden shock and pain

* the boomerang-effect: bad actions done in the past, catch us up (some karma-circle)

* a clear tendency to over-react, to crack up, to have hysterics, to run amok, to explode emotionally, because someone hits/hurts you at the very nerve. For a moment you feel hot and not like yourself.

* Panic attacks (as a result of anxiety against deep affects)

* the theme-complex of intrigue and conspiracy: treachery, trick, to take advantage of other's weakness. Revenge, lie and falsehood

* Nessus joins us with occult primordial forces and energies, which go far beyond our mental, conscious and intellectual capacity for understanding. Therefore we first experience fear until we understand it later.

* the border(-line) to madness. See for example movies like "Mad Max", "Lethal Weapon", "Die Hard", where brute force in combination to super-natural self-control with madness is shown (there is also a relation to Asbolus I think).

* to overcome anxiety and force with the mean of nearly super-natural will, strength and braveness

* there seem to be some relation between Nessus and longterm skin deseases: nettle rash, strong itching, pain, burning of the skin, high sensitivity against sunrays, pustules, growth (often connected with troubles in relationships) and allergies

* Nessus opens us the gate into Hades, the death and Pluto's underworld, towards the shadow-world of ghosts and lost souls.
But it also reveals the other, light and good side of the so-called "evil". It's only a denied and repressed, undissolved, "dark" shadow-like energy of the soul, which needs to be re-integrated into our personality to be complete and healthy/authentic (this shows us the closeness of Nessus to Pluto).

* There is an obvious parallel between Nessus and the fairy man Charon. Therefore I think Nessus is a leader and guide to hidden and deep energies of regeneration and rebirth and therefore Pluto's helper or preparer in this way and process.

* Maybe Nessus has a connection to psychosis and schizophrenia

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Laurence Lucas: "Inadvertent contracts, blood contracts, ancestral obligations, secret societies, blood rituals, Darkbody, inner rage, dark phantasies, forgotten and rediscovered old dusty futurism, inter-species contracts, releasing outworn contracts from energy field, unmanifest monsters, reptilian shadow, everyone responsible to some extent for planetary darkness, inadvertently responsible, commercial repercussions of how we spend our money."

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Juan Antonio Revilla: "Keywords: negation, smallness. abuse, horror, obscurity. blackness or nigredo, death. the delicacy and sensibility of the flower, the fragility of life, nastiness, manipulation, cruelty. weakness, morbidity. the strength that is found in weakness. a guardian at the threshold. simple, dark, infinite. terrible and beautiful in its fragility. paradox of beauty and ugliness, the Beauty and the Beast. a sphinx, an owl."

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Nessus in a chart brings up old issues of grief and loss thought to be buried long ago, which erupt in a monstrous or poisonous way... Nessus is the pitchblack face of Pluto made manifest through Saturn. The final outcome is gaining immortality."

Nessus is a planet that addresses the healing of abuse patterns. The abuse can be psychological, physical or sexual in nature; it can be 'potentially inappropriate' contact or behavior; and it can involve revenge. Nessus has themes that feel like 'the return of karma' and what goes around comes around. Actions have consequences, but you can almost always discover the source. Nessus is a very good diagnostic tool in handling situations with these themes. It shows us where and how we've been hurt in the past, and how we're likely to hurt others -- and how we can heal those hurts.

Nessus is about power dynamics and the dynamics of abuse, very important themes today in the western world, as we discover we were all abused as kids (and I mean it). Power and abuse dynamics always appear in relationships first, then they appear in one's inner emotional patterning, and the relationship pattern of that lifetime. Nessus tells us that physical abuse and psychological abuse work about the same way, and reminds us that quite often psychological abuse is more insidious because so often we don't know it's happening and we don't think it happened. One question of Nessus is, "did the abuse happen?"
Nessus can point to the circumstances that surround rape, incest, sexually transmitted diseases and, moreover, the relationship patterns that create these things. Put two charts together and you can see something about how these dynamics appear between people. Nessus can be used to investigate the lives of our parents and their relationships to others in the family. In most of our charts, Nessus is in a conjunction to another Centaur named Hylonome (hy-la-na-me).

Nessus works much like a super-Chiron focused specifically on the dynamics of abuse. In all cases this abuse is psychological and in most it is not properly identified as what it is; rather, we experience it as "the way things are" and, more to the point, as the way WE are. But we are how we are because of the way we were treated when we were growing up.

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8405 Asbolus:

Asbolus was a seer. Asbolus indicates development of and use of full intuitive faculties. It talks about how we handle extremes of adversity and danger as children. Survival and the recognition of having survived. Deep contact with something organic and essential -- the ability to endure and even thrive despite it all. Protection from victimhood. The blessing of protection even when it seems like none is there.

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Laurence Lucas: "Cellular activation in resonance with centre of Earth producing visions, vision of unfolding evolutionary ideal, disconnected from bigger picture causing cynicism, vision not integrated with emotional reality, owning your vision yet understanding and accepting the imperfection of human drama, disillusioned with own faith"

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Mark Andrew Holmes: "Asbolus is serious, intense, humorless, dedicated, strident, motivated, fearful, unsettling, bitter, caustic, foggy, and acerbic, and brings about ordeals and pessimism; it signifies conspiracy, mystery and oppression, the drive for accomplishment, the need for reputation and acclaim, for self-realization because of deeds done; on the one hand, impeccability in action, solidness and consistency, the ability to take compliments; on the other, reckless regard for reputation, lack of integrity, inability to take compliments."

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Jonathan Dunn: "very bad things" "master of horror" "master of suspense" abuse / abyss"

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posted January 31, 2009 01:08 PM           

I have not studied Asteroid Pecker yet.

Hi VenusMars,
My wife got alarmed on reading this post and me check every female relative's chart immediately. A recent innocent divorcee has Saturn exactly conjunct Nessus retrograde.
A conjunction would be difficult too when Saturn is concerned.
Nessus sq Venus is cool when Nessus belongs to the girl. Very dangerous when Nessus belongs to the guy.

DD, the square is a bit wide. It may manifest as nightmares of assault in some cases should the Moon/Neptune/Hypnos also be aspected by Nessus.

We cannot ignore dark topics. What if we find the actual astrological aspects that increase the probability of a man to perpetrate rape or child abuse? Say a person is caught once and he chooses to escape to a third world country, in such a case, the astrological confirmation can save many lives.

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posted February 01, 2009 12:04 AM           

I have to say, ive never really looked into my asteroids in my natal chart but from what i can see thats where the hidden, dark, subconscious stuff lies. I'll definitely look into my asteroids & aspects, anyone got any tips on how?

DarkDreamer, your info has been very helpful. I'm of greek heritage and have studied ancient greek mythology since i was a kid and i think in your post about pluto/persephone i mentioned thats the story of my life, im currently in this weird as r/s that echoes and mirrors that story. I've always got one foot in the underworld, the other on the surface.

ICQ, npl sounds very fascinating, id actually love to read up some more info if you got it because i think knowing all diff types of psychotherapy is essential in psych and working with patients, to tailor their therapy to their needs. That would be great. I love sharing and exchanging info.

Goodgirl, thats a very good point about the rapist/abuser indicaters in the chart. I guessing harsh aspects like that can be counterbalanced by others, like apparently i have an aspect just like Ted Bundy's but then again i got Sun trine Pluto, jupiter sextile uranus, neptune sextile pluto so they probably give me the safe space to work positively with that awful aspect, just like you said.

I say be free and express yourself here. I like to touch on things that make ppl cringe because i think its important to explore it, just like u and icq say. If you have anything to say on such a subject then ill show my support and participation. And stick up for ya

You all rock

posted February 01, 2009 03:26 AM           

My family is actually above thessaloniki, in the north and my area is right next to the border of macedonia and bulgaria, about an hour or so from where alexander the great was born. Greeks up that way are more blonder, fairer, blue eyes, etc. as the ottoman empire didn't really touch that area. It was the balkan war that screwed my area, my grandparents first language was bulgarian/slavic macedonian (different dialics but pretty much the same language) and their 2nd is greek. So yeah, a bit ambigious on the heritage part.

posted February 01, 2009 04:20 AM           

And, interesting you mention the 9th and 11th house, i got Retrograde uranus in my 9th house, which is ruled by sagittarius and i got Retrograde jupiter in my 11th house, which is ruled by acqurius, so lots of friends, associates and acquaintances in very high places and very low places

cheers