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Author Topic:   The 6th and 12th houses
scrappydog
Knowflake

Posts: 29
From: Texas
Registered: May 2009

posted June 09, 2009 12:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scrappydog     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Glaucus! Thats really interesting information and great post MVM. As into astrology as I am, I'm guilty of not paying a lot of attention to asteroids except chiron, I really relate th Chiron's energy. So what does it mean exactly to have "prominent Kuiper belt energy"?? Could this be the reason for all the psychic attacks that happen to me when I'm out of my body? Could it explain why I'm able to astral project almost at will? I've never figured out how to explain these things about me astrologically, except for that scary neptune in the 8th.

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Lucia23
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posted June 09, 2009 12:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message
MVM, thanks for that very helpful post. I have my NN in the 12th/SN in the 6th.

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 367
From: Sacramento,California
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posted June 09, 2009 12:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
" So what does it mean exactly to have "prominent Kuiper belt energy" "

highly nonconformist and highly metaphysically oriented.

All the planets beyond Saturn are referred to as outerplanets, and so they are related to metaphysical energies. Uranus is the planet of liberation from boundaries as it breaks way with its need for independence,and it is associated with innovation and intuitive flashes. Neptune is the planet of dissolution of boundaries as it pierces the veil to reveal another world,and it is associated with imagination,inspiration, and psychism. Pluto is the planet of elimination of boundaries, and is compared to being the other side. This could be death,afterlife,or could be the subterranean depths of the human psyche. It is possible that Pluto's fellow kuiper belt objects could be similar to Pluto. I believe that Pluto and its fellow kuiper belt objects can be energies so metaphysical that they can be hard to handle and can manifest as problems on the physical plane such as serious health problems,psychiatric disorders, and even neurodivergence which are often subtle in their own way and very misunderstood. This makes sense. After all, kuiper belt objects orbit beyond Neptune. They are transneptunians.

With that in mind, I believe that it makes sense that the kuiper belt objects can be associated with unknown,hidden,subtleties,and nonconformity.


I have very prominent kuiper belt energy myself, and I am a neurodivergent. I am definitely into metaphysical subjects. I won't get into discussion about metaphysical abilities though. I like to keep those things to myself. It must be my Sun,Mercury,Venus in Scorpio. maybe even the asteroid,Psyche in Virgo in my 12th.

I theorize that people that can relate to being neurodivergent and the Indigo,Crystal stuff are exceptionally strong in Kuiper Belt energy.

I believe that Indigo,Crystal are just New Age labels for neurodivergence....especially after reading the book, THE CARE AND FEEDING OF THE INDIGO CHILDREN by Doreen Virtue.


I also want to point out that kuiper belt objects aren't asteroids. They are composed of rock and ice

asteroids are inner system objects,and they relate to the connection between the personal and social things. They are composed of rock.

kuiper belt objects are outersystem objects, and Pluto is one of them. They are generational.

Pluto,Eris,Makemake,Haumea are classed as kuiper belt objects,dwarf planets,and Plutoids. They are generational.

Orcus,Quaoar,Varuna,and Ixion are large kuiper belt objects. They are generational.

Sedna is considered to be an inner Oort Cloud object. it's a transneptunian. At it's most distant point from the Sun, it is the most distant of all the objects in our solar system. It has the slowest movement at beyond 10,000 years. It's extremely generational.


Ceres is classed as an asteroid and dwarf planet. It relates to things between the personal and social..especially with it orbiting between Mars and Jupiter.


Raymond


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scrappydog
Knowflake

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From: Texas
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posted June 09, 2009 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scrappydog     Edit/Delete Message
Ok this stuff is really making sense now. Thank you for explaining exactly what they are, I did not know they were different from asteoids. I am very non conformist, very against organized religion and social structures which sometimes makes me unpopular and misunderstood. My sister is very much into indigo stuff and crystals, me a little. I don't know what neurdivergence is, but I am bipolar and had a very traumatic childhood due to forced hospitalization.

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Glaucus
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From: Sacramento,California
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posted June 09, 2009 05:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
neurodivergent just means different way of thinking,thinking outside the box, a different frame of mind. atypical neurological processing.
It's a term that was first used by Autistic,Aspergers people to describe themselves as people that are just different type of thinkers,and so they don't see themselves a deficient that they they need to be fixed in some way. Then it later on got extended to Dyslexics,Dyspraxics,ADHD,Tourette Syndrome.

My neurodivergence is Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD.


DANDA was formed by neurodivergents for neurodivergents. I know some of these people from Dyspraxia Yahoo group.


DANDA – the Developmental Adult Neuro-Diversity Association has been set up for people with Dyspraxia, Asperger’s Syndrome, AD(H)D and other related conditions such as dyslexia and dyscalculia.

It became a registered charity in December2003 - No 1101323. It is run by adults with one or more of these conditions, thus following the Madrid declaration of 2001, which stated that no decisions about the disabled should be taken without their active involvement -'Nothing about us without us'.

DANDA has grown out of the Dyspraxia Foundation Adult Support Group, as it became clear that most people connected to the Group did not have dyspraxia alone. Most, in fact, had AD(H)D (Attention Deficit (Hyperactivity) Disorder, Asperger’s Syndrome or dyslexia as well. It was the norm rather than the exception.

Dyspraxia will remain one of the main priorities as there are very few groups catering for the needs of adults with this condition. However, more and more people wanted to know more about the other conditions they had, especially those with Asperger’s and AD(H)D. Many dyspraxics in fact joined groups for adults with Asperger’s Syndrome, but very few are run by Asperger’s adults themselves in the UK; and there are very few established AD(H)D groups, just for adults, here, either.

• We have groups for people with these conditions.

• We have a newsletter.

• We have leaflets on neuro-diversity and DANDA itself.

• The web site is being expanded and updated.

• We organise conferences for adults with neuro-diversity and professionals. (See 2008 conference info)

• We will encourage research and also increase awareness of these conditions in the workplace and amongst advocacy agencies and those dealing with the Disabled.
The aims of DANDA are as follows:
1) To help adults with Developmental dyspraxia, ADHD, Asperger’s Syndrome and related conditions reach their full potential by providing and improving emotional and practical support, particularly for those conditions for which there has been less provision – such as dyspraxia

2) To raise awareness and understanding of these conditions in adulthood, particularly their assessment, their effects, their treatment and the inter-relationship between the different conditions

3) To establish networks of groups to help adults with these conditions get involved in activities for interaction, mutual support, and education, provided that the activities shall be charitable What is Neuro-Diversity•

The term Neuro-Diversity was first coined in the USA in the nineties on a computer list for people with Autism and Asperger’s Syndrome. Internet searches on the term tend to direct you to sites dealing with these conditions. It was also used by dyslexics on one of their lists in the USA. Unlike most names for ‘medical’ conditions, it was not chosen by the professionals.

However, many have now adopted it. Neuro-Diversity refers to the spectrum of neurological profiles describing how effective an individual is in processing information. This information comes in many forms, including written and spoken language, sounds, visual images, light, temperature, touch, texture and taste – as well as movement and co-ordination signals form the brain.

The processing of all these things includes not only receiving and interpreting, but also transmitting, concentrating and storing. For most people, i.e. the Neuro-Typical (NT), the cognitive profile is relatively smooth, with little variation in effectiveness of information processing.

This is in line with their general level of intellectual and reasoning ability. In contrast, a minority of people, i.e. the Neuro-Divergent (ND) have a cognitive profile which shows significant peaks and troughs, denoting significant disparity between the best and worst of their information processing.

The processing differences are present from birth, and are independent of any basic physical malfunctions, for example of eyes, ears or limbs. It is thought that 10% of the population is significantly ND, with many more having some degree of neuro-diversity. The norms of ‘easy’ and ‘difficult’ tend not to work for NDs, and in many cases are actually reversed.

For some, complex mathematical analysis is ‘a walk in the park’, where an actual walk in the park can be a nightmare.

What conditions does Neuro-Diversity include

• The conditions currently considered part of Neuro-Diversity are Dyspraxia, Dyslexia, Dyscalculia, AD (H)D, Asperger’s Syndrome, Autism and Tourette’s syndrome, as well as other conditions such as Semantic Pragmatic Disorder and Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD). What problems can be caused by to lack of Awareness

• Over and above the difficulties that can be caused by Neuro-Diversity itself, there are a number of issues that arise as a result of a lack of awareness of Neuro-Diversity by NDs themselves, and by society at large. Many NDs, even as adults, are not aware of the condition, let alone that they have it.

There is a very low level of awareness among the medical profession in relation to adults. Many NDs have got themselves into a pattern (consciously or unconsciously) of masking or over-compensating for their difficulties from birth, and may find it hard to be assertive.

As a result of having to deal with their conditions in a world not willing to accommodate them, the ND can have mental health problems, including anxiety, depression and low self-esteem, and some can end up with drug/alcohol abuse which may also mask their condition. Many have problems realising their (often considerable) potential.

For example, the workplace is designed around the needs/features of the Neuro-Typical, e.g. open plan offices without screens to reduce distractions, and an expectation of organisational/administrative skills and an ability to multi-task.

The sooner the associated conditions are diagnosed and people given the necessary support and opportunities, the more likely it will be that they can lead fulfilled lives.

Manifestations of Neuro-Diversity: The following list of manifestations is offered as a ‘first stab’. It is hoped that future versions of this will be available on the DANDA website and included in leaflets.

Please let us know if there is anything you consider misleading or missing.

Direct Manifestations:

Not everyone has all of the following problems and some NDs can excel in some of these areas.

The ND often finds the tasks of daily life such as reading, writing, driving, household chores, cooking, grooming and organising personal finances difficult.

Coping with work and other people can also be hard. There are usually a combination of problems including:

Perception - receiving and interpreting of information from the senses:
• Difficulties with reading and spelling.
• Difficulties interpreting visual images, tracking and relocating from one place to another
• Difficulties with numbers, arithmetic and geometry
• Often only able to interpret language literally and thus trouble with metaphors
• General and/or specific over (or under) sensitivity to light, touch, taste, pain and sound
• Trouble judging time, distance, space and speed

Communication - Transmitting information to others:
• Difficulty constructing communication in your head
• Problems planning and writing essays and sequencing of ideas
• Problems being succinct or giving sufficient information.
• Brain working at a greater speed than mouth or hand, e.g. handwriting and typing - the hands can’t keep up with the brain
• Speaking too loudly or softly
• Not having control of pitch and tone
• Difficulties with pronunciation

Gross and Fine Motor Skills - Transmitting brain signals to effect movement:
• Problems with team sports
• Tendency to bump into things
• Poor hand-eye co-ordination
• Slow and/or untidy hand-writing
• Difficulties with craftwork
• Problems with driving
• Tendency to drop things (“butterfingers”)
• Involuntary movements (e.g. tics)
• Failure to limit motion to the intended part of the body (e.g. hips gyrate when hand whisking.

Memory - Storage of information (exacerbates problems with other information processing):
• Problems following instructions
• Problems remembering sequences
• Problems following discussion, especially in a group
• Short-term memory problems/forgetfulness
• Difficulties with concentration/attention control - can find it hard to concentrate or hard not to hyper-focus (be totally absorbed/preoccupied)

Organisational Skills:
• Difficulty prioritising
• Poor time management
• Problems with planning
• Problems with delegating
• Ineffective multi-tasking
• Untidy (self and environment)

Social Skills/Behavioural Problems:
• Timidity/aggressiveness, due to lack of confidence and self esteem
• Communicating misleading body language
• Problems interpreting body language of others
• Difficulty working out the unwritten ‘rules’ in work or a social setting
• Inappropriate/spontaneous comments
• Difficulty listening, especially in groups
• Phobias and obsessive/compulsive behaviour
• Impulsive and/or erratic behaviour/outbursts
• Easily frustrated, difficulty controlling impatience, argumentative/defiant

Associated Physical Implications/Risks
(The following points may not be direct manifestations of ND conditions. However, they have either been noticed as occurring more frequently with NDs or would appear to be logical consequences of the direct manifestations. They are not offered as being the result of extensive scientific research, but rather as possibilities that NDs and their medical advisors should be aware of.)
• Intolerance of certain foods
• Allergies
• Eczema
• Asthma
• Glue Ear
• Irritable Bowel Syndrome
• Leaky gut
• Bone diseases
• Diabetes
• Misinterpretation of the pain sensation (increased or decreased, thus masking the seriousness of a condition)
• Epilepsy and migraines made more frequent due to sensitivity to light.
http://www.danda.org.uk/pages/about-danda.php

Raymond

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 367
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2009 06:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
As for the Indigo,Crystal stuff:


I read the book, THE CARE AND FEEDING OF INDIGO CHILDREN by Doreen Virtue, Ph.D.
I took a look at it,and I found that I could strongly relate to this stuff. Therefore, I bought the book. The more I read it, the more I believed that Indigo Child seemed like a label for neurodivergence.

I feel that New Agers created this
label because of the skyrocketing increase of children with AD/HD. The problem is that the AD/HD condition is not just exclusive to children. There has been an increase of diagnosing AD/HD in adults. Some were
diagnosed AD/HD at 60 yrs old. In 2004, I was diagnosed inattentive type ADHD at the age of 32, and my mother told me that she can relate to many of the symptoms AD/HD and Dyslexia. From what my mother told me,my father seemed to have Dyslexia,Dyspraxia, and AD/HD. From what I have seen in my mother's side of the family, numerous relatives have these AD/HD traits. Everyone of my mother's 4 halfsiblings dropped out of high school,and my mother never even went to high school. They did find their niches,and they did well in their careers except for my Uncle Dino who has gone through many jobs but he has learned many skills. My Uncle Eddie born in 1961 is now 47 years old, was always hyperactive. He was in special ed with speech problems like me. My Stepgrandmother refused to have him medicated because both her and my grandfather were hyperactive,and they weren't on medication. It seems that
hyperactivity runs in the family. With knowing these things, I do not believe in Indigo generation nor the Indigo label itself. The label is not going to help a child with problems with learning to read and communicate as well as learn. Special education helped correct my Dyslexic,Dyspraxic problems,and so I am a compensated Dyslexic,Dyspraxic
As for the AD/HD, I really don't think it's a problem. I honestly feel that it's an
alternative learning style that doesn't fit well with mainstream classroom,and I
feel the same about neurodivergence in general. I also feel that because of their sensitivity, the wrong foods can affect them in adverse ways. I also feel that the fluorescent lights in the classrooms can make them feel uncomfortable and can exacerbate neurodivergent symptoms. Fluorescent lights can make Scotopic Sensitivity worse. The fluorescent lights can
make people with Scotopic Sensitivity have problems seeing black print on white paper due to reflection of the light on the paper.

Here are things in the book that I read that pertains to me and other neurodivergents

page 100, Indigos may seem awkward or clumsy and may be labeled a having delayed motor skill functioning (those are symptoms of Dyspraxia)

page 101, Talking and reading may also seem unnatural to Indigo Children, who Intuitively know that more accurate and honest
conversation is available through telepathy (speech delays/problems are early
warning signs of Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,Autism)

page 11, Indigo Children are exquisitely sensitive in many ways. They may have been subject to taunts such as "You're too sensitive," yet their sensitivity is a spiritual gift equivalent to a detecting
instrument. (that can be sensory integration disorder, sensory integration issues which are common in Dyslexics,Dyspraxics,and ADHDers but highest in the autistic spectrum disorders)

page 172, Because right-brained people have such acute senses, they're easily distracted. They can hear every little click of the school clock's hand, and the high pitch of the fluorescent lighting.
(that can be yslexics,Dyspraxics,ADHDers,and people with autistic spectrum disorders)

page 97, one of the reasons why Indigo Children are so good at manifesting is because they processing information primarily through mental pictures. They are skilled visualizers and can easily develop a
photographic memory. They think and learn mainly in pictures.
(Dyslexics,Autistics,and a lot of ADHDers think mainly in pictures instead of words)

page 113, Sensitive Indigo Children aren't just affected by the physical properties of their bedrooms; they;re also influenced by the invisible nontangibles in their rooms. Music, lighting,and scent and
can make a big difference in your children's sleeping patterns,moods,and energy levels.
(again....this can be sensory integration disorder,sensory integration issues
that are common in Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD, but highest in the autistic spectrum disorders)

page 6, Indigos are highly creative children,and think outside the box.
This thinking style has created many of the world's breakthrough inventions
(this type of thinking is in Dyslexics,Dyspraxics,ADHDers,and autistic spectrum disorders)

page171, Indigo Children, gifted children, who are labeled ADD or ADHD and adult lightworkers are almost always rightbrain dominant. This means that they interact with the world primarily with the right
hemisphere of their brain, which focuses upon visions and feeling and relates to nonverbal studies such as art, music, math, philosophy, psychology,and psychic arts. Right brain - dominant people can make
excellent writers and speakers, provided they learn how to translate their mental pictures and strong internal feelings into the world.
(this can apply to Dyslexics,Dypraxics,ADHDers,and people with autistic spectrum disorders)

there was talk about psychic abilities and visions. I didn't get into that stuff. Those aren't symptoms of learning disabilities. Many neurodivergents have the common sense to keep those things secret from people that they know that they can't trust with those things including especially psychiatrists. However; in the book,the BIPOLAR
CHILD, learning disabilities was listed as one of the common symptoms and traits in bipolar children. Oversensitivity to environmental influences was listed as one of the very common symptoms and traits in
bipolar children. Many children that were diagnosed as AD/HD are now believed to have been actually Bipolar.That's the same with adults now believed to have AD/HD,and many AD/HD adults have talked about how their AD/HD was misdiagnosed as bipolar. Many children are being on antipsychotic
drug, Risperdal for Bipolar. It's approved for autistic spectrum disorders,and it has been used off label for behavior problems of ADHD.

I have a list of books that I have about learning
differences and special sensitivities

PARENT'S GUIDE TO CHILDREN WITH DYSLEXIA by Abigail Marshall
THE GIFT OF DYSLEXIA by Ronald D Davis
THE GIFT OF LEARNING by Ronald D Davis
THE EVERYTHING PARENT'S GUIDE TO CHILDREN WITH DYSLEXIA by Abigail
Marshall
SMART BUT FEELING DUMB by Harold N Levinson, MD
A SOLUTION TO THE RIDDLE DYSLEXIA by Harold N Levinson,MD
SMART BUT STUCK by Myrna Orensttein,PhD
THOM HARTMANN'S COMPLETE GUIDE TO ADHD
RIGHTBRAINED CHILDREN IN A LEFTBRAINED WORLD by Jeffrey Freed and Laura
Parsons
THE EDISON GENE by Thom Hartmann
DYSPRAXIA by Amanda Kirby
UPSIDE DOWN BRILLIANCE The Visual Spatial Learner by Linda Kreger
Silverman,PhD
IN THE MIND'S EYE by Thomas G West
UNDERSTANDING DEVELOPMENTAL DYSPRAXIA by Madeleine Portwood
ADD and ADHD Complementary Medicine Solutions by Charles Gant MD,PhD
THE CARE AND FEEDING OF INDIGO CHILDREN by Doreen Virtue, PhD
THE HIGHLY SENSITIVE CHILD by Elaine N. Aron, PhD
THE HIGHLY SENSITIVE PERSON by Elaine N. Aron, PhD
THE HIGHLY SENSITIVE PERSON IN LOVE by Elaine N. Aron, PhD


Raymond

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Valus
Knowflake

Posts: 462
From:
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posted June 09, 2009 09:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message

Good stuff, Glaucus and MVM.

What would your take be
on the ruler of the 6th,
placed in the 12th house?
Let's say Gemini on the 6th;
with Merc in Sag, in the 12th.

How about the ruler of the 12th,
placed in the 6th?

How would that be different from
the ruler of the 6th in the 12th?

Glaucus, what sort of orb
would you consider with Sedna,
to various points and objects?

How about Ixion, Varuna and Quaoar?

Makemake and Haumea?


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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 367
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2009 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
"Glaucus, what sort of orb
would you consider with Sedna,
to various points and objects?

How about Ixion, Varuna and Quaoar?

Makemake and Haumea?"

No more than 3 degree orb, and that's with conjunction,opposition,trine,and square

sextile gets 2 degrees

quincunx,semisextile,semisquare,sesquiquadrate
gets 1 degree

I use the same orbs with Eris,Pluto,Makemake,and Haumea which are dwarf planets. I know that using smaller orbs for Pluto is controversial, but when you consider the other kuiper belt objects, they can easily account for the subleness,intensity,transformation that astrologers have attributed Pluto before the Kuiper Belt was discovered.


also I use 1 degree orb for the smaller kuiper belt objects


but Chaos and Huya are cutting it close to being large objects. They are much larger than the small kuiper belt objects. They could probably given an orb of 2 degrees.

Raymond

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 367
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2009 09:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
"I don't know what neurdivergence is, but I am bipolar and had a very traumatic childhood due to forced hospitalization."

I am very sorry about what happened to you.

In adulthood,I was misdiagnosed as schizoaffective bipolar disorder without any psychological nor neurological testing being done. That's one of the experiences that led me to my life purpose of being a neurodiversity advocate. I want to help prevent the psychiatric misdiagnosing of neurodivergents. I want to raise awareness about the need to distinguish neurodivergence from psychiatric disorders because there are overlapping of symptoms.
For instance, poor coordination,left/right confusion, disorganization,memory problems,and speech problems are not only symptoms of disorganized type of schizophrenia but also neurodivergence.

Mary Colley,one of the people that run DANDA told me that a lot of neurodivergents in the UK have been misdiagnosed Bipolar and Schizophrenia.

I read the book, THE BIPOLAR CHILD by psychiatrist, Dr. Demetri Paplos. I was disturbed by the book. I felt that a lot of the symptoms that they listed under bipolar are things that neurodivergents can relate to.

SYMPTOMS AND BEHAVIORAL TRAITS IN BIPOLAR CHILDREN from the book, THE
BIPOLAR CHILD http://www.amazon.com/Bipolar-Child-Definitive-Reassuring-Misunderstood/dp/0767928601/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231546169&sr=8-1


AND ALTERNATIVE EXPLANATIONS by me Not all of the symptoms have
alternative explanations Just the ones that I feel can be explained
as challenging life experiences as a learning disabled person

All the descriptions after the hyphen are my alternative explanations ......looking at it from the neurodivergent perspective and not the neurotypical pespective


VERY COMMON

Separation Anxiety - fear of and don't want to go to school, fear of
being around people that will look down on him or her, don't want to
be away from the only people that love,respect,understand and doesn't ridicule him or her, fear of being bullied at school or other places

Rages and explosive temper tantrums lasting up to several hours -
being provoked, frustration, being picked on, teased, bullied

Marked irritability - being provoked,frustration, being picked on,
stress, being teased, bullied

Oppositional behavior - Frustration, being picked on, teased, bullied,
fighting against what is thought to be wrong, standing up for self,
wishing to make his or her point known and have others understand it,passion in him or her to fight injustices


Rapid cycling (frequent mood swings, occurring within an hour, a day,or several days) or mood lability - Frustration, being picked on,
stress, high sensitivity

Distractibility - reactions to external stimuli, high sensitivity,
excessive concentration leading to the stopping of focus from being
tired, preoccupied with what's happening inside

Hyperactivity - anxiety build up, nervousness, excitement, increased
stress,poor or low frustration tolerance,high energy,quick mind

Impulsivity - being provoked, being picked on, teased, bullied,
stress, impatience

Restlessness/fidgetiness - impatience, wanting to get away from people that are making them uneasy, sensitivity to flourescent and bright lights, bored, anxiety, nervousness,stress

Silliness, giddiness, goofiness - humor as an escape from stress,
"make fun of yourself before they make fun of you", be the class clown so people lay off him or her

Racing thoughts - nonstop worrying, accumulation of preoccupied
thoughts that have to do with anxiety and nervousness, quick mind

Aggressive behavior - being provoked,frustration, being picked on,
teased, stress, wishing to make his or her point known and have others understand it, passion in him or her to fight injustices

Grandiosity - Believing in fantasies of being great because they want
to escape from being somebody that everybody
despises,teases,ridicules,and is ashamed of.....believing in fantasy
of being special in a positive way to escape from being special in a
negative way

Carbohydrate cravings - sweets can make the person feel good,
sugar-sensitive

Risk-taking behaviors - frustration, anger, desperation,being
rebellious, going where nobody has gone before .... People who start
their own businesses are risk-takers People who save the lives of
others in dangerous situations are risk-takers... People who fought for equal/civil rights were risk-takers

Depressed mood - frustration, being picked on, low self esteem,
stress, feeling rejected, sadness

Lethargy - sick and tired of having a screwed up life,
hopelessness,giving up "Why bother to do anything? I am stupid any
way. ",mental burnout due to a mind that works much and uses much energy which is the case with dyslexics who use 4.6 times more brain area when doing a simple language task

Low self-esteem - the most common symptom in the learning disabled,
feeling stupid,dumb,or retarded, feeling like he or she won't amount
to anything, feel that he or she doesn't have a future, feeling
ashamed

Difficulty getting up in the morning - doesn't want to go to school,
doesn't want to be picked on, doesn't want to deal with people that
ridicule the person

Social anxiety - afraid to be evaluated or tested, afraid to be seen
as stupid,retard,and inept by others, afraid to make mistakes in front
of people and be seen as an idiot,moron,retarded,and imbecile,
insecurity, being anxious when it comes to their weaknesses......for example if somebody has problems with speech, then they would be anxious about talking in front of people....if somebody has problems with coordination,they would anxious about doing things in front of people that require the use of coordination

Oversensitivity to emotional or environmental triggers - sensory integration issues, just being highly sensitive, being allergic to certain substances, can be particular past emotional triggers like past experiences of physical and verbal abuse, and so the person overreacts when he is hit or being put down

COMMON

Bedwetting (especially in boys) - problems with coordination, stress,
poor muscle control

Night terrors - could be from anticipated harm by others, nightmares
of being ridiculed by others

Rapid or pressured speech - anxiety, nervousness,desperate to be
listened to, eager to be heard, feeling the need to get points
across,being passionate..... people get really tense and agitated
when not being listened to

Excessive Daydreaming - highly imaginative, being bored, fantasizing
about how great if would be to be "normal" and not ridiculed

Obsessional Behavior - preoccupied about doing things that help make him or her be accepted and/or seen as being intelligent and/or
attractive,

Compulsive Behavior - preoccupied about doing things that help make him or her be accepted and/or seen as being intelligent and/or
attractive

Motor and vocal tics - could be from coordination and speech problems.....also can be symptoms of both Tourette's Syndrome and the side effects of antipsychotics

Learning disabilities - THIS IS MY ENTIRE POINT! Dyslexia,
Dyspraxia as well as other neurodivergent conditions like ADD/ADHD, Asperger's Syndrome, Sensory Integration
Disorder, Pervasive Developmental Disability,Autism

Poor short-term memory - typical symptom of learning disabilities and ADHD

Lack of Organization - typical symptom of learning disabilities and ADHD

Fascinating with gore or morbid topics - reading too many Stephen
King novels! hehehehehe

Hypersexuality - resulting from low self esteem, needing lots of
intimacy with a person to make them feel good, past history of sexual
abuse

Manipulative behavior - control issues because of self esteem problems

Extremely bossy behavior with friends/bullying - frustration, being
picked on, low self esteem a person who is bullied might bully
others

Lying - fear of getting in trouble, pretending to be somebody else,
self - protection, anxiety, lack of trust

Suicidal thoughts - shame,frustration, sick and tired of being
teased,picked on, and ridiculed feels like he or she won't amount to
anything, and so he or she feels that he or she doesn't want to live
any more and complicate others' lives, sick and tired of not being
"normal"

Destruction of property - frustration, being picked on, stress,

Paranoia - lack of trust, fear of being exposed, suspicious that the
person cannot be trusted, fear from past experiences from being picked on, feeling persecuted - being picked on, being called names, being bullied, suffering from prejudice

Hallucinations and delusions - religious and spiritual experiences
that are not understood by others, believing that he or she had
pastlives, any perceptions that conflicts with mainstream views

LESS COMMON

Migraine headaches

Bingeing - indulging in food to escape from problems of being picked
on, stress...........a lot of people eat out of depression cannot cope
with problems of dealing with inconsiderate,cruel,and ignorant people

Self-mutilating behaviors - low self esteem issues

Cruelty to animals

Please keep in mind that these people aren't necessarily Bipolar.
They could be misdiagnosed. I feel that anybody can be misdiagnosed Bipolar because Psychiatry is not an infallible science. If you act,feel, look, believe, think and/or talk in a way that differs from the norm, there is a possibility that you will be diagnosed as mentally ill. People with ADHD have been misdiagnosed Bipolar, and so it is not surprising that Dyslexia and Dyspraxia can be misdiagnosed Bipolar because they often have comorbidity with ADHD/ADD.


Raymond

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Valus
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posted June 09, 2009 10:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message

Interesting, Raymond.
You make me think I
may be misdiagnosed.

Anyway..

I just realized, I have an EXACT GRAND FIXED CROSS, with my Moon, Eris, Orcus, and Chaos. The more I read about this stuff, the more I see it in my life. Crazy. Also, Sun exactly inconjunct Eris, inconjunct Varuna, and conjunct Ixion & Quaoar. Varuna Square Saturn (chart ruler). Sedna exactly trine Huya and conjunct Chiron. Haumea square Neptune, Sextile Uranus, and Semi-sextile Pluto. Deucalion exactly trine my Moon.

Kuper Belt Energy, anyone?


--------------------

The horizon recedes on the crest of an eternal dusk;
the wisdom of the earth is lofty in the underworld.
~ Valus

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Benedict Moon*
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posted June 09, 2009 11:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Benedict Moon*     Edit/Delete Message
I don't know how I've missed out on this thread; the 6th and the 12th are two of my most active houses.

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MyVirgoMask
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posted June 10, 2009 02:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Valus,

I'm wondering... ruler of the 6th in the 12th feels like it would be definite calling for healing, but maybe the person denies or tries to deny it, as in, they don't want to me conscious of it, but they are drawn into it (sometimes whether or not they 'like' it).
It would probably depend on the planet.

I really don't know nearly as much as Glaucus knows at all, he's got this stuff in the bag

I feel with for instance Gemini on the 6th house cusp and Mercury in the 12th, the person would even be able to trance out easily, even be like a medium or a channel. I'd say they're really tapped into their own subconscious mind and able to cross that bridge between dreams and waking life pretty easily... so they'd be good at living between worlds. And as they talked, they'd start to make more sense even than they realized lol.
But maybe they'd have a hard time with the waking state too since it feels obtrusive or something, to their mind. Almost like their way of thinking hates the details (6th) and responsibility (6th) but is very good on going on tangents and really 'going there' as far as vision goes (12th).

Seems like a visionary kind of placement, or so I feel.
Talking in tongues, or even dreaming of foreign languages (or even inventing one's own language) might be easy with ruler of the 6th in the 12th. But there's probably more coherence to Mercury in the 12th, because it's like they can communicate a little bit more what they sense, you know?
They can translate, I think.
Once they stop thinking that others might find them crazy or something, and working to capture the pure state of the 12th without the interfering stuff, they'd probably have the potential of a strong psychic or even divine messenger of sorts....and they'd probably freak themselves out (and others) along the way.
I'm sure other aspects to Mercury would make some further impact.


Ruler of the 12th in the 6th might have it a bit easier because it's like what's in the 12th demands to be put to use... you just have to go about the tricky business of listening to it, even if it makes no sense. But I'd say in the 6th it would make sense and be able to get broken down more quickly because there's less fuzziness or something.


Hope it makes sense

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Valus
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posted June 10, 2009 11:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message

Makes a lot of sense, MVM.

You know more than you think you do.


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Glaucus
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posted June 10, 2009 11:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
I agree with Valus about MVM!


as for the misdiagnosis stuff, Valus. It could be that you were misdiagnosed. Too many people with neurodivergence are misdiagnosed. They are hard to pin down with their nonconformist natures. I don't trust psychiatrists. Many diagnoses are based on what majority of people think is abnormal,and that differs in societies. The schools don't accommodate for students that think outside the box, and so they get labels of being disordered in some way.

Heck...some of the traits of ADHD are useful in hunting-gathering societies. The findings of the DRD4 7R gene which is connected to novelty seeking and ADHD confirms that.

You can read about that in the book, THE EDISON GENE by Thom Hartmann. He even wrote that it's the Edison gene types that tend to be drawn to alternative religion,spirituality.


Raymond

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etherealenlightenment
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posted June 10, 2009 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for etherealenlightenment     Edit/Delete Message
Wow, this is very spot on.

My boyfriend has AD/HD and Dyslexia, and the 12th house is his most prominent house.

He has Sun, Moon, Mercury, and Venus in the 12th house. He himself is very unaware of his emotions, and now it all makes sense! He also has an extreme need for freedom and an extreme need to feel as though he's not imprisoned in any way, and if he does, he always rebels.

How would Venus and Mercury in the 12th house play out?

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Valus
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posted June 11, 2009 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message

That stuff's pretty interesting, Glaucus, and I've always shared your criticisms of mainstream psychiatry in America. My thinking is definitely different, and much of the descriptions you read resonates with me very deeply. I wanted to say "much of many of the descriptions" -- see, the ruler of my 6th is in my 12th, and its Mercury. I find that I have an extremely keen nose, sometimes, for the subtlty of a matter, and how to communicate it, but, since this is uncommon, it often means introducing novelty into my way of expressing myself. Also, when the sense is keenest, that is when there is the greatest difficulty in communicating my perceptions, since I am seeing a concresence of detail. And language ties itself in knots, trying to express the whole truth. It often occurs to me that, in order to say anything precisely, I would have to write a very long book on it. The simplest thought can invite a thousand wrong assumptions, if it is not expressed with an eye for detail, but, when it is expressed precisely, it is too complicated for most people to follow. So there is a lot of trading-off between precision and clarity -- which you would not expect to be mutually exclusive qualities. In fact, I think the 12th-6th (and Pisces-Virgo) polarity might have a lot to do with "trading off". When we are conscious of imperfections, we are conscious of having to sacrifice things all the time; something, on one side or the other, must give. The solution for Virgo leads to Libra, and for Pisces, Aries. But I'm babbling..

Let's talk noncomformity. Let's talk 10,000 years. Mars conjuncted my Sedna the other day, when I took mushrooms... I've felt healthier the past few days, on account of the trip. Right now, I'm drawn to South American and Central American Shamanism, and Christian-Shamanic hybrids, in particular. I'm reading Terence McKenna's theories on psilocybin mushrooms (as the foremost catalyst responsible for the accellerated evolution of homo erectus and homo sapiens), and a possible "archaic revival" -- a return to Paleolithic values; much as the Renaissance was a return to the values of classical antiquity -- as it relates to Riane Eisler's theories on Dominator and Partnership Societies, and to the profound influence of entheogens on social organization (evidenced by the revolutionary spirit of the 60's; the startling consequence of a brief encounter between indigenous, shamanic cultures and the industrialized western world; though credit is often given to the religious philosophies of the Far East, it was actually the psychedelic plants prescribed in shamanic cultures, and largely abandoned in the East, which led to the cultural shift). That our civilization is so slow to recognize the divinity manifesting through these plants is a symptom of our current patriarchal bias; to respect women is also to respect the earth (traditionally identified with the feminine), and the bounty of the earth; including medicines for the body, mind, and soul. I'd say this is some serious Kuiper Belt, or Oort Object, stuff here.

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Glaucus
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posted June 11, 2009 12:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
this is from the book, KEYWORDS FOR ASTROLOGY by Hajo Banzhaf and Anna Haebler


Mercury in 12th - Exploring Chaos

STRENGTH: The Paradoxical Thinker. Great spiritual intuition. May do well at thinking in apparent contradictions and expressing deep insights in a paradoxical,allegorical,or symbolic manner. Can reconcile greatly varying schools of thought. Understands how to beat the opponent in confrontations with their own weapons (the other person's logic). Very scholarly. Good nose when it comes to revealing secrets, but also well-versed in search for transcendental experiences.

PROBLEM AREA: The Plagiarist. Engages in intellectual thievery without necessarily noticing it. Often has the impression of having known everything at a much earlier point in time. Also intellectual timidity,secrecy,and illusionsary thinking.

FINDS IN SECLUSION: Clear thoughts and good ideas.

Venus in the 12th House

STRENGTH: Selfless Love. Great longing for merging and becoming one with another person. Absolute ability to be dedicated,idealistic,selfless,willing to make sacrifices. Love as a deep,spirtual experience and boundless,divine rapture. Artistically inspired.

PROBLEM AREA: Secret Love. Longing for a love that can never become reality because it must remain in the realm of fantasy not to do damage. Repressed femininity and concealed eroticism,unrequited love,or secret liaisons that never come into the public eye. Peculiar,sometimes anonymous loves: encounters without mentioning names,enamored correspondence between strangers,or love of someone in prison.

FINDS IN SECLUSION: Her ability to love and worthiness of love.


Raymond

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etherealenlightenment
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posted June 11, 2009 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for etherealenlightenment     Edit/Delete Message
Thank you Raymond!

PROBLEM AREA: Secret Love. Longing for a love that can never become reality because it must remain in the realm of fantasy not to do damage. Repressed femininity and concealed eroticism,unrequited love,or secret liaisons that never come into the public eye. Peculiar,sometimes anonymous loves: encounters without mentioning names,enamored correspondence between strangers,or love of someone in prison.

I found this part specifically interesting...the Venus in 12th... When it says that there may be secret liaisons, does it refer to just keeping relationships secret from the rest of the world, or does it refer to infidelity?

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Glaucus
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posted June 11, 2009 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

could be either or ...could be both

Raymond

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scrappydog
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posted June 11, 2009 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scrappydog     Edit/Delete Message
Raymond I found and read your article on Kuiper Belt energy and it was really really good. I can't believe i've been into astrology for over 10 years and never paid any attention to this, definately under rated, it should be looked into more. What you described about your life sounded like a photo copy of mine.

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