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Author Topic:   Vanity and Perfectionism
downtomars
Knowflake

Posts: 226
From: NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 27, 2009 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for downtomars     Edit/Delete Message
I am extremely vain. I admit it. I got my first job because I wanted to get my hair done professionally more often (thanks to Saturn I haven’t gotten it done in almost 2 years, and it shows!). Even though I am cash poor right now, I still have money for the gym but I have to do home manicures (for shame!). My closets are so full (but perfectly organized) that I have to rotate them seasonally - Space Bags were made for me. I have the 1-2-3 punch – Leo Sun, Libra Moon, Virgo Saturn to blame I guess. I learned more about asteroids and parts here and found out that my Part of Beauty is conjunct my ascendant (kinda wide orb of 5, but a conjunction none the less, LOL!) and the asteroid Narcissus is conjunct my ascendant as well (kinda wide orb of 5 again, LOL!)….However…I have a sad little t-square, ASC opp. Venus both square Moon, so I have had to struggle with this all of my life. If I look bad, I don’t think I am worthwhile.

I read somewhere that many Leo women have a “beauty queen complex” and struggle with the same issues that former pageant contestants deal with, that their worth is connected to their looks. Honestly, I am not nearly as bad as I used to be. I actually thank Saturn for that!

Anyone have vanity issues? Where is your Part of Beauty (Asc + Venus – Sun), Narcissus (37117)? (There are many beautiful peeps here so I suspect there are many POB-Asc conj!)

*At first I was afraid of Narcissus and where it is in my chart but I read that it is an essential part of love because you have to love yourself before you can love someone else! Everything is a learning experience!*


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Unmoved
Knowflake

Posts: 396
From:
Registered: May 2009

posted July 27, 2009 09:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
please clarify... are you saying that you think that you are extremely beautiful when you say that you are extremely vain?
edit: or do you mean you're too concerned with how you look? And, if so, is this preoccupation stemmed from insecurity or from being impressed by what you see?

I don't mean to ask the obvious.

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downtomars
Knowflake

Posts: 226
From: NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 27, 2009 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for downtomars     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
are you saying that you think that you are extremely beautiful when you say that you are extremely vain?

No - just too preoccupied with how I look, what I am wearing, etc.

quote:
...do you mean you're too concerned with how you look? And, if so, is this preoccupation stemmed from insecurity or from being impressed by what you see?

It is a little bit of both, like with most people...who are vain...LOL

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Lucia23
Knowflake

Posts: 924
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 27, 2009 10:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message
Good question, Unmoved.

I think of vanity as being overly concerned with one's looks--obsessing over whether or NOT you are beautiful enough. Some of the vainest people in the world think they're UNattractive and obsess and complain about it all the time.

As a Leo Sun, Cancer Moon-Saturn opp my Asc, I struggled a lot when I was younger with worrying about my looks. My Part of Beauty is in my 12th, widely conjunct my NN and not really near anything else. My Narcissus is in my 11th, conjunct my Neptune and (very widely) conjunct my NN too.

Even today, if someone thought I was a horrible and unpleasant person, as long as they thought I was beautiful and sexy, I wouldn't be offended. The WORST thing another person could think about me is that I'm not beautiful.

EDITED: Although--I don't worry about what I'm wearing, my hair, or how I'm groomed. Positively, I love a natural look and I like clothes I feel good in, etc...negatively, I have this heirarchy, with 1 being the best:
1) Looking naturally, radiantly beautiful and like you look that way effortlessly
2) Looking okay, natural and confident, as if you didn't put in effort with your appearance
3) Looking good, but like you put in a lot of effort with your appearance
4) Looking like you put a lot of effort into your appearance, without succeeding in looking good at all.

I really dislike the look of cosmetic surgery, too much makeup, fussy hair, excessive grooming--unless it is a cool, stylized look (like punk.) But for myself, natural everything is very important. There's something so sad to me about a woman who looks like she spends a lot of time on her appearance, unless the result is a very very cool, edgy, iconic look, or the ravishing beauty of a supermodel.

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downtomars
Knowflake

Posts: 226
From: NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 27, 2009 10:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for downtomars     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Even today, if someone thought I was a horrible and unpleasant person, as long as they thought I was beautiful and sexy, I wouldn't be offended. The WORST thing another person could think about me is that I'm not beautiful.

LOL - I love this Lucia because I completely understand!

ETA: As a multi-racial woman with ethnic hair, getting the hair done is a TOP priority. Hair is a serious issue for ethnic women. I'm not into crazily styled hair (I've never had a "hair style" besides a bob in high school) but relaxers and touch-ups are essential routine maintenance. For two years I have "gone natural" (natural meaning chemical-free, my hair is very thick and very real, lol) and I am not digging it

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Lucia23
Knowflake

Posts: 924
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 27, 2009 10:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message
DowntoMars, I think for Leo women a BIG part of it is not the beauty at all (unless you have Libra/Virgo/Taurus happening too)...it is the STATUS.

Beauty is still, unfortunately, the most important social currency for women in our society.

If being rich or funny or brilliant conferred as much social status FOR WOMEN as being seen as beautiful and sexy, then I would be more vain/hung up about those things. As a Leo I want people to adore me and think I'm superlative. Embarrassing, but true. And it doesn't mean I want sycophants--I want people to hold me to an almost impossibly high standard, and then decide I live up!

I am working to embrace my Sag NN and Sag solar stellium in my draconic....to focus on life experiences rather than how others might evaluate me. I'm getting as bit better.

EDIT:

quote:
As a multi-racial woman with ethnic hair, getting the hair done is a TOP priority. Hair is a serious issue for ethnic women.

One of my closest friends is a fellow Leo (she is double Leo), and she's always explaining the hair thing to me. I have long, slightly wavy, dark-blond hair, and if it's styled it looks really fussy and it makes me look older.

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Unmoved
Knowflake

Posts: 396
From:
Registered: May 2009

posted July 27, 2009 10:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks for clarifying. It's times like these when English shows itself as a third language.

Well, I'm insecure, they say. I say that my areas of development are real. My Narcissus is in 7th. I don't know how to use that Arabic Part equation. My Venus is in Virgo so my personal style is subtle and simple. I'm also not trendy, so apart from worrying about weight, clothes and hair and all extra bits don't worry me.

I personally hate shopping for clothes, and doing my hair and nails is a chore. I do like to buy cosmetics though. If this were my world I'd look like a slob (too simple) or the most I'd do is brush my hair. But, culturally (South Africa esp people of color) it is disrespectful to show oneself looking below par in public because it's offensive to the viewer.

So, even if one is doing an in-and-out at the mall, one must look one's best. You can't wear sweats to the mall, for example. It's just how it is here. So, I comply.

Also, you never know who you'll run into, so I always try to avoid having people assume that I'm having a meltdown from catching me looking off.

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Lucia23
Knowflake

Posts: 924
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 27, 2009 10:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message
Handy-dandy Arabic Parts calculator: http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php

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Unmoved
Knowflake

Posts: 396
From:
Registered: May 2009

posted July 27, 2009 11:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Lucia23

My PoB is in 19 degrees Scorpio. i.e. in 1st.

Hmmm... I'll go think about this for a while.

by the way, from what I'm reading, Leo influences seem tough. And you know what this means ladies... --------> Show Us

Kidding.

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downtomars
Knowflake

Posts: 226
From: NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 27, 2009 11:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for downtomars     Edit/Delete Message
I am a tall, curvy woman. Have been since birth (9 lbs. 9 ½ oz.). I had struggled with weight issues and eating disorders for most of my life. After Saturn went through my 6th things changed. I was more at peace with being healthy and having curves at a size 12 or 14. I could never, ever be an 8 or 10 for more than a month. Even when I was for that month (lol), I looked bad because I have such a prominent clavicle and hipbones I looked like a bag of bones even though a size 10 is not super-slender! Honestly, it is all psychological with me. I spent a good portion of my childhood getting made fun of so when I “blossomed” I was surprised at all of the positive feedback. I guess I want to keep it going.

The funny thing is…I like my men flawed. I don’t expect perfection from them, just from myself.

As for plastic surgery – I don’t want to get anything “done” BUT, I have seen some minor things I would like – a light chemical peel (can be done in a spa) or that Brite Smile bleaching treatment (with the bleach and the blue light). Anything to perfect it.

quote:
it's offensive to the viewer.

LOL, I like that too!
Make-up, yes Unmoved! …I haven’t stepped into Sephora in months…

Brite Smile looks like torture though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ02c7w2ro4

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amowls*
Knowflake

Posts: 463
From: richmond va
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 27, 2009 11:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls*     Edit/Delete Message
I mean, of course I care about how I look. I'm more obsessed with clothes though, than make up or beauty regimes. Like, I don't care if I have a perfect manicure or anything (actually my nails are atrocious but w/e). I do take time to do my hair, and I do wax my eyebrows but that's about it as far as my regime goes. Although sometimes I go through phases when I'll do face masks and stuff, but that's usually after a shopping spree at Sephora (I tend to buy expensive shampoos and face soap, I hardly spend money on actual make up). I refuse to use soap, shampoo/conditioner and face wash from the pharmacy, I HAVE to get special certain brands that they only have in hair salons/specialty stores.

But yeah, I tie status and stuff to the things I buy (mostly CLOTHES). I have really expensive taste. I have a Libra Moon in the 5th, Venus in Pisces in the 10th (status house) and my PoB is in Leo in my 2nd (doesn't really aspect anything big... just a wideish square to Pluto).

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Unmoved
Knowflake

Posts: 396
From:
Registered: May 2009

posted July 27, 2009 11:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
edit: (a smile is more appropriate)

I don't mean to trivialize your situation, but come now... it can't be that bad, can it? Or at least, it shouldn't be bad for too long before things change, or until you adapt, surely?

From what I hear, you guys are beautiful without frills. I always have to remind myself that whenever I look in retrospect, what I considered "bad" at the time was/is better than the present situation. So, this should inspire us all to realize that things could be worse, but they aren't.

So, downtomars, you are more beautiful than you think you are, I am sure. And, although its cliched, "it's your aura that makes you appealing" and not so much the hair, and the body. Of course, I am also speaking to myself here, so don't take this as a lecture.

Either way, {{{{hugs}}}}

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downtomars
Knowflake

Posts: 226
From: NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 27, 2009 11:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for downtomars     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Unmoved {{{Hugs back}}}

I have seen your pics and you are beautiful inside and out!

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vertiver
Knowflake

Posts: 255
From: Formerly Missneptune
Registered: May 2009

posted July 28, 2009 12:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vertiver     Edit/Delete Message
Downtomars, I can totally relate to being awkward and having weight issues and being a tall girl. When I was in my teens I was about 50 lbs. heavier than I am now and almost 6 ft. tall! My biggest problem in my teens was that I was lazy and thought exercise was beyond me, now I pretty much bike and hike as much as I can and suddenly blossomed when I was around 18. I also had a big sweet tooth which is no surprise having Moon square Jupiter and Jupiter is in my 6th house! And if your tall and a size 10 or 12, its not considered curvy in my book.

When it comes to vanity, last year Neptune started to trine my natal Venus in 7th (and is actually exact right again). But that first transit hit me big time, I became delusional about my appearance and was really particular about how I looked, I wanted to look like a 50's starlet and even had Marilyn Monroe hair, talk about matinence!

But for some reason, now I don't care about what I look like and feel way more comfortable with myself. Must be Uranus square Venus transit?

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lechien
Knowflake

Posts: 149
From: i live in a kitchen
Registered: May 2009

posted July 28, 2009 12:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message
i am a mixture of insecure and confident about my looks (but few people aren't like that i guess). when i was a child, i was the most popular girl in the school (cuz i was a terrible tomboy and also cute). then i became ugly for like 15 years LOL. then one day i found out that people generally think i am beautiful. how many damn years i wasted believing that i was ugly, it's incredible! but because i spent half of my life believing i was ugly, i cannot come to accept that i'm not that bad looking... i'm super photo shy, for instance. there are moments at times where i slip back to 15 years ago and can't even go outside, thinking i look so unattractive.

i do have a particular style when it comes to what to wear though. i strictly follow my style regardless of what's in trend etc. i'm self-conscious but not crazy about meticulously taking care of my looks. but i do hate to have others meddle with it so i always cut my own hair and everything else myself. i don't trust they'll get things done exactly the way i like... but i'm generally very low-maintenance.

my Part of Beauty is in the 12th house at the 0 degree Sagittarius, Narcissus in the 1st house in Capricorn. PoB is square Saturn and Narcissus square NN/SN but by 3.5 degree. that's it.

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downtomars
Knowflake

Posts: 226
From: NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 28, 2009 12:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for downtomars     Edit/Delete Message
Vertiver, I am at the 14 end as we speak and I am okay with that. You have a point about Neptune, I guess I feel those transits too. Neptune has been going through my 1st and it has made me obsessed with looking like a celeb. I most recently got into the Kardashian look. I don’t wear nearly as much make-up but I have a few of those cinched waist dresses and belts. They are famous for nothing but they have those ridiculous curves and the dark hair/eyes thing. I can relate to that. Khloe is my favorite:

I was saddened to hear about her “25 Pound Weight Loss!” She’s a curvy woman, sheesh.

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stopandstare
Knowflake

Posts: 69
From:
Registered: May 2009

posted July 28, 2009 12:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for stopandstare     Edit/Delete Message
downtomars: hey at least you admit it and seem to have a sense of humor about it love the smurfs picture you added. i think with all things, if you're really vain or really not vain, as long as you don't take it so seriously then it's fine.

myself, i'm sort of inbetween. i never cared much about my looks until i went to university and we were graded on grooming and constantly chided by profs that we have to look at least presentable in case you run into a client.

i was overweight for a while and i coasted purely on my brains and my personality. but then i finished school and i went into the workforce and it was like the tables were turned and suddenly i had a face and and i wasn't invisible anymore.

i'm still going about my life like i normally do but people are treating me like i must do special things to upkeep all that you see of me. i like to be well-groomed like most people, but i'm low maintenance about it.

i think i'm slightly reversed of you guys where i'm almost embarrassed of having nice features and being born like this yet not have to do too much to look like this. when i was fat, nobody cared. but now i'm not so it's almost as if i should care and i should be somewhat vain but i refuse to be it. i just comb my hair in the morning (no fancy styling). i just use drug store makeup. i just like to look presentable.

i definitely dress better and am more girlie than i was ever before, but that's probably because i'm older now and am a professional. before i got into wearing dresses or even runners that were for girls (i used to wear boys' runners because they were cooler), this dude apparently every girl wanted and fawned over (someone actually informed me of that fact) was coming for me.

i was like yeah right (laughing my head off) because i imagined him to be with one of you extremely well-groomed girls dressed in the most nicest clothes with the perfectly well manicured hands. so more like a mirror image of him. i've never seen a guy dress so well and look so perfect in my entire life. i had actually seen girls on the street turn their heads and gawk over him. i was like whoa this is so surreal yet so hilarious

i think in the end it's the aura you give off or something in you that comes out that people respond to and not necessarily how well you make yourself up. i get stared at, chatted up and all that even when i'm wearing a full length winter jacket and hiding my face. so even if i'm looking my best, no one may care unless i'm somehow radiating that something special i got inside of me...don't know what though!

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downtomars
Knowflake

Posts: 226
From: NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 28, 2009 01:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for downtomars     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
when i was fat, nobody cared. but now i'm not so it's almost as if i should care…

Another comment that hit the nail in the head Stopandstare. It is as if we have to have some kind of upkeep once we transform ourselves. More "pride" in our appearance I guess.

I actually get mad when people compliment me and I don’t feel like I look good. I’m think to myself “sure, okay, jerk…are you being a smart ass? I gained 6 pounds…” and say "Okay, thanks". I have gotten better at that though, now I just say “Thank you!”

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belgz
Knowflake

Posts: 240
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 28, 2009 03:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
mine s conjunct my sun 2 degree orb lol what does that mean?

I think everyone loves themself otherwise youd be pretty depressed each time you looked in the mirror. We become who we want to be and we dress and make ourselves what we like and find attractive in ourselves.

I love myself if i didnt i would change till i liked who i was either physically or personality wise.


------------------
•' •.♥♫♫´°°♫ • Life is Beautiful •.♥.•♫°°´♫♫ ♥ •

•Sun• Cancer
•Moon• Gemini
•Mars• Cancer
•Mercury• Cancer
•Venus• Leo

•••Virgo Rising•••

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DepTaurus
Knowflake

Posts: 508
From: canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 28, 2009 03:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DepTaurus     Edit/Delete Message
im sexy im cute im popular says you.

im single great hair the boys all love to stare.

im hot your not im everything your not.

im bitchin they stare i swear ive got great pairs.

i wanted your not you suck just like you mum.

im pretty and tall my bush hangs down to far.

boys want me cause im slutty. they like my personality.

my personal favorite.

I'm sexy, I'm cute! I'm popular to boot!

I'm bitchin, great hair! The boys all love to stare!

I'm wanted, I'm hot! I'm everything your not!

I'm pretty, I'm cool! I dominate the school!

Who am I? Just guess! Guys wanna touch my chest!

I'm rockin'! I smile! And many think I'm vile.

I'm flyin', I jump! You can look but don't you hump! Whoo!

I'm major, I roar! I swear I'm not a ***** !

We cheer and we lead! We act like we're on speed!

you hate us cause we're beautiful well we don't like u either!

We're cheerleaders! We are cheerleaders! Roll Call!

Call me Big Red!
I'm Wh Wh Whitney
C C C Courtney! Roar!
Dude its Darcy!
I'm Big Bad Carver! Yeah!
Just call me Kasey! O!
I'M STILL! BIG RED!

I sizzle, I scorch! But now I pass the torch!

The ballots, are in! And one girl had to win!

She's perky, she's fun! And now she's number 1!

K-K- Kick it Torrance! T T T Torrance!

*Music introducing Torrance*

I'm strong and I'm loud! I'm gonna make u proud!

I'm T T Torrance! Your captain Torrance!

Let's, go, Toros! We are the Toros! The mighty mighty Toros!

We're so terrific! WE MUST BE TOROS

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amowls*
Knowflake

Posts: 463
From: richmond va
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 28, 2009 07:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls*     Edit/Delete Message
LOL DepTaurus

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comica23
Knowflake

Posts: 375
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 28, 2009 10:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for comica23     Edit/Delete Message
I have PoBeauty in the 1st house (Virgo) and Narcissus in Libra oppose my Aries Sun and trine my Gemini MC.

Before, I never really cared about my appearance, as long as I look fine and cool. But then, I've started to worry about my femininity after started dating. ;_; Had a time when I was obsessed with my feminine looks and compared myself to other girls, but well, finally got tired of that phase. ^_~;

Now I mainly pay attention to what I wear (I like casual style with a touch of coolness and femininity XP - Aries/Virgo mix?) and I also constantly fix my hair with my hands in the public (coz this is a horribly windy country!!), and I do simple eyes makeup from time to time (mascara/eyeliner.. don't have patience for more than this nor for everyday lol). I like to take photos of myself sometimes (I'm a narcissist XP and I do cosplay too sometimes), and I do try to be as photogenic as possible whenever someone else takes a photo of mine (you don't want to be ruined by someone posting a bad photo of yours in the hi5! XP ).

But well.. when at home.. with only the presence of my family.. I can look like a complete mess. XP

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aerialcircus
Knowflake

Posts: 206
From: Western Massachusetts, US
Registered: May 2009

posted July 28, 2009 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aerialcircus     Edit/Delete Message
Has anyone seen this graphic?

http://www.fabulousmag.co.uk/images/content_images/issue_025/survey_01_025.jpg (possibly NSFW, all nips & junks are covered, but the women are nude). I think it all boils down to how you feel about yourself, seriously.

I have a good childhood friend (Leo Rising, Gem Sun, Gem Moon) who has been overweight since we were kids and is currently a size 18. In our teens and early 20s (before she got married) she always had boyfriends, EVERYONE wanted her. She was so artistic, interesting and confident that everyone was naturally drawn to her and her weight was never an issue (for her, or anyone else).

My Part of Beauty & Part of Love are both directly conjunct my Sun in 26 Aries, my Narcissus is nearby at 18 degrees Aries. I don't hate how I look, but I'm not all that overly concerned with it either. I probably could gussy up a bit more here and there, but it's a really low priority for me. I'm more likely to adorn myself with pretty things (like wearing lots of jewelry and or interesting clothes) than wear makeup or do anything special to my actual body.

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Unmoved
Knowflake

Posts: 396
From:
Registered: May 2009

posted July 28, 2009 12:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
DT I can't stop laughing.

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Taurean_Scorpion
Knowflake

Posts: 68
From: Santa Monica, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 28, 2009 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Taurean_Scorpion     Edit/Delete Message
I feel most pretty when I am wearing clean, good quality clothing...I like brands and crisp white shirts, jcrew and club manaco, that kind of thing. I would prefer Gucci or big name brands anytime but can't afford it anyway.
As long as the fabric feels nice on my skin. As for makeup, I like to go all natural as long as my skin is clear. I invest in shoes and skin products most, cardigans, etc. I don't think I'm much of a dress person.

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