posted August 17, 2009 05:04 PM         

kind of.

what i wrote was true, but i also wrote that because i wanted to see if my chart did reflect me being this person as well.

i have uranus on my sun and moon as you stated in your first post.

wide square with my mercury too.

posted August 17, 2009 05:36 PM         

quote:

---

Uranus in aspects with the Moon/Mercury/Sun will make for playing devil's advocate for the fun of it, and just to see 'where it goes'.

---

posted August 17, 2009 06:01 PM         

Some argue because they love drama, and get bored when things are too peaceful.

Others get nervous when there isn't enough drama or things to worry about. So they stir up drama so that they don't have to feel afraid of something vague (as it's already here, now they know what to deal with it, rather than just worrying "when the other foot comes down" and not knowing what to do about it when it does).

Some argue because they're insecure and their beliefs are a big part of who they are, so they need validation, because that means personal validation. At best, if someone puts out a thought they disagree with, they hear "I don't like you" and retaliate in hurt. At worst, they feel a need for reassurance so they put their ideas out in hopes of being comforted by agreement and feel personally attacked if someone disagrees.

Some do it just because they're bitter & mad, and anything that gives them an excuse to vent they'll happily use.

Some are just spoiled brats who never grow up and are just destined to throw a lot of temper tantrums.

posted August 17, 2009 06:30 PM         

quote:

---

Love Monty Python !!!

---

No you don't.

letram -
Maybe you're the same way. I like to learn, but I despise being pushed to a belief. So I like arguing with others in a way that's primarily a mutual exploration of ideas. I avoid arguing with people who seem more interested in examining me than the ideas we're discussing. By that, I mean they're more interested in getting me to say that I agree with them than they are with examining the merit of the ideas.

posted August 17, 2009 06:40 PM         

sometimes its the reasons Deriver? stated above.

sometimes its because im obviously not such a cool person and i just like winding people up by making them feel like they are wrong, and im rigt, and i proved to be superior, lame isn't it? i like doing that sometimes though, don't know why.

i am a natal leo sun.

posted August 17, 2009 07:15 PM         

i know a couple of aries who LOVE arguing to the death of it. even when they are wrong, they must continue shouting and pummeling you with their point of view because they're convinced they're right and you better see it their way.

posted August 17, 2009 09:38 PM         

I LOVE to discuss, debate and put a controversial viewpoint across though! (as you may have all noticed)"

Lara,

You have Sun conjunct heliocentric North Eris Node in Taurus just like I have Sun conjunct heliocentric South Eris Node in Scorpio. Those are more significant than Sun conjunct Eris because of the collective nature of heliocentric nodes with their being very slow moving (up to 1 degree per century).

if anybody wants to know about his/her heliocentric Mars,Uranus,and Eris Nodes, they can calculate them here
http://www.true-node.com/pos/

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 18, 2009 01:55 PM         

quote:

---

sometimes its because im obviously not such a cool person and i just like winding people up by making them feel like they are wrong, and im rigt, and i proved to be superior, lame isn't it? i like doing that sometimes though, don't know why.

---

I think it's human nature to occasionally feel the urge to dominate (and submit). We all have a Mars and Pluto (and Neptune), after all.

Since arguing is linked with power games for you, I can see why people who constantly want to argue would annoy you: it takes a lot of energy to deny someone else the satisfaction of feeling superior. If you lowered the stakes - saw arguing more as a means for fun & discovery than for claiming superiority - you probably would be less inclined to see your friends as trying to dominate you.

posted August 18, 2009 02:14 PM         

Do any of them have their Aries planets in conjunction to Eris that's been in Aries since the early 1900's

also some Libras might have that issue with their planets in opposition to Eris.

Al Sharpton has Sun in Libra in opposition to Eris

people with planets in Capricorn and Cancer could also have squares to Eris

Tom Cruise has Sun in Cancer square Eris

I think that Eris is mainly the ruler of "you are right and I am wrong" stuff which its co-discoverer, Michael Brown suggests.
As the years go by, Eris will be used more and recognized by astrologers just like its fellow dwarf planet, Pluto.

I really do believe that some things of Jupiter,Uranus might actually belong to Eris. Maybe some things of Pluto could too with Eris being a transneptunian like Pluto.

only time will tell though

The USA chart has an almost exact Sun-Eris opposition in Right Ascension (equatorial longitude coordinate)

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 18, 2009 02:33 PM         

The Great Strife Debate

Soooo many of you have e-mailed me concerning Strife's mythological counterpart that I've decided to make this page to tell you what I know, and where I got it from. The truth is, there are so many conflicting stories that it is hard to tell what the Greeks believed. My sources are direct quotes with the bibliography below the listings so, if you feel so inclined, you can go and see the source first-hand. Hopefully this page will help you come to your own conclusions about the mythological Strife. I'll be adding more sources as soon as I find them. If you find a source that you'd like me to put up here, please e-mail it to me! greekbard@lycos.com

Discordia: Also Discord, Eris (Greek). Goddess of discord and strife. Daughter of Zeus and Hera; twin of Ares. Sister of Fear, Panic, Terror, and Trembling, the four sons of Ares [how could she be both their sister and their aunt?]. Famous for roApple of Discord across the floor at the wedding of Peleus and Thetis. This apple, marked For the Fairest, was claimed by three goddesses--Aphrodite, Athena, and Hera. It led to the Judgement of Paris and indirectly to the Trojan War.
Eris: see DISCORDIA.
Strife: A son of Eris. Eris (Roman iscordia) is also called Strife, or the goddess of discord and strife.
Source: Zimmerman, J.E. Dictionary of Classical Mythology. Bantam Books: New York, 1971. pp. 88, 98, 248

Discordia: NO LISTING
Eris: The personification of Strife. In Hesiod's Theogony she is a daughter of NYX and herself gives birth to Work, Forgettfulness, Hunger, Pain, Battles, Fights, Murders, Killings, Quarrels, Lies, Stories, Disputes, Lawlessness, Ruin and the Oat. In the Works and Days, Hesiod postulates two seperate Strifes: one a daughter of Nyx, the other a spirit of emulation, placed by Zeus within the world to give it a healthy sense of competition. Eris was generally portrayed as a female winged spirit. She threw the apple intended for the fairest of the goddesses, which PARIS had the task of awarding; this was the origin of the Trojan War.
Strife: NO LISTING
Source: Grimal, Pierre. Dictionary of Classical Mythology. Penguin: New York, 1991. pp. 142-143,

Discordia: The personified Roman goddess of strife and discord. She belonged to the retinue of Mars and Bellona. She is the Greek Eris.
Eris: Eris is the Greek goddess of discord and strife. She is Ares' constant companion and follows him everywhere. Eris is sinister and mean, and her greatest joy is to make trouble. She has a golden apple that is so bright and shiny everybody wants to have it. When she throws it among friends, their friendship come to a rapid end. When she throws it among enemies, war breaks out, for the golden apple of Eris is the Apple of Discord. She did this once during the wedding of Peleus and Thetis, and this act brought about the Trojan War.
Strife: NO LISTING
Source: Encyclopedia Mythica

Discordia: NO LISTING
Eris: Known to the Romans as Discordia, it is from this name that we get a clue to this goddess's nature. Goddess of strife, she was employed by the other gods to stir up fierce disputes and mortal quarrels among men. It was she, in fact, who started the quarrel among the three goddesses, Hera, Athene and Aphrodite, at the marriage of Peleus. She lived in the lower world with the Erinys, and was at times represented as the wife or sister of Ares. She was mother to Enyo, goddess of war.
Strife: NO LISTING
Source: Of Gods and Men: The A to Z of Mythology and Legend

Discordia: Discordia was the Roman goddess of strife.
Eris: Eris was the Greek goddess of strife, deceit, discord and disputation. The provoker of rivalry, contention, murder and wars.
Strife: NO LISTING
Source: The Probert Encyclopaedia of Mythology

Discordia: NO LISTING
Eris: Eris is the goddess of discord and the spirit of strife, and the daughter of Zeus and Hera. She is obsessed with bloodshed, havoc, and suffering. She calls forth war and her brother Ares carries out the action. She had a golden apple that was so bright and shiny everybody wanted to have it. When she threw it among friends, their friendship came to a rapid end. When she threw it among enemies, war broke out, for the golden apple of Eris was an apple of discord.
Strife: NO LISTING
Source: Luminara's Web of Myth-tery

Discordia: NO LISTING
Eris: Eris is the personification of Strife. She is portrayed as an ugly old woman.
Source: Perseus Encyclopedia

Discordia: NO LISTING (thought to be the same as Eris)
Eris: "Eris is Discord, and may be called strife and quarrel as well." She is considered to be either the daughter of Nyx or the sister of Ares. She is a goddess to fear, as her powers are great and many, and she is often portrayed as having wings.
Source: Greek Mythology Link

Discordia: NO LISTING
Eris: Eris is either the daughter of Nyx or the twin sister of Ares, and thus a daughter of Zeus and Hera. She is the personification of discord and strife.
Source: Dictionary of Mythology

Discordia: NO LISTING
Eris: Eris is the daughter of Zeus and Hera. She often rides into battle along side her brother Ares, bringing her son, Strife, with her
Source: Greekmythology.com

Discordia: NO LISTING
Eris: "Eris is the Goddess of Discord. She is the daughter of Zeus and Hera; although, it is sometimes said that Hera's impregnation was caused by the touch of a flower. She is the twin sister of Ares and also his close companion. Eris spread rumors and planted jealousies that would grow and cause the wars that were her brother's province...She is said to have a son named Strife."
Source: Characters of Greek Mythology

Discordia: NO LISTING
Eris: "Eris is the daughter of Zeus and Hera. She is the goddess of discord. In addition to her main activity of sowing discord, she frequently accompanies her brother Ares to battles. On these occasions she rides his chariot and brings her son Strife."
Source: Greek Mythology

Discordia: NO LISTING (see Eris)
Eris: "Sister of Ares, daughter of Zeus and Hera, the hand of Eris can be seen in every quarrel, feud and disagreement. Her eternal and unforgiving rage was the cause of fear and respect on Olympus, though despised by the Olympians they dared not confront her.
She rode into battle with her brother and companion, Aries, but she was more generally known for the less deadly forms of conflict; political strife, personal contention, rivalry and wrangling.
She is often confused with the Roman goddess, Discordia."
Source: Greek Mythology
http://www.angelfire.com/co/greekbard/strifedebate.html

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”

posted August 18, 2009 02:53 PM         

Dialectic (also called dialectics or the dialectical method) is a method of argument, which has been central to both Eastern and Western philosophy since ancient times. The word "dialectic" originates in Ancient Greece, and was made popular by Plato's Socratic dialogues. Dialectic is rooted in the ordinary practice of a dialogue between two people who hold different ideas and wish to persuade each other. The presupposition of a dialectical argument is that the participants, even if they do not agree, share at least some meanings and principles of inference. Different forms of dialectical reason have emerged in the East and in the West, as well as during different eras of history (see below please).

Among the major forms of dialectic reason are Socratic, Hindu, Buddhist, Medieval, Hegelian, Marxist, and Talmudic.

Dialectics is based around three (or four) basic metaphysical concepts:

1. Everything is transient and finite, existing in the medium of time (this idea is not accepted by some dialecticians).
2. Everything is made out of opposing forces/opposing sides (contradictions).
3. Gradual changes lead to turning points, where one force overcomes the other (quantitative change leads to qualitative change).
4. Change moves in spirals (or helixes), not circles. (Sometimes referred to as "negation of the negation")

Within this broad qualification, dialectics has a rich and varied history. It has been stated that the history of dialectic is identical to the extensive history of philosophy.[1]. The basic idea is perhaps already present in Heraclitus of Ephesus, who held that all is in constant change, as a result of inner strife and opposition.[2][3][4] Only fragments of his works and commentary remain, however.

The aim of the dialectical method is resolution of the disagreement through rational discussion,[5][6] and ultimately the search for truth. One way to proceed — the Socratic method — is to show that a given hypothesis (with other admissions) leads to a contradiction; thus, forcing the withdrawal of the hypothesis as a candidate for truth (see also reductio ad absurdum). Another way of trying to resolve a disagreement is by denying some presupposition of both the contending thesis and antithesis; thereby moving to a third (syn)thesis or "sublation". However, the rejection of the participant's presuppositions can be resisted, which might generate a second-order controversy.

Marxist dialectics

Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels believed Hegel was "standing on his head," and endeavoured to put him back on his feet, ridding Hegel's logic of its orientation towards philosophical idealism, and conceiving what is now known as materialist or Marxist dialectics. This is what Marx had to say about the difference between Hegel's dialectics and his own:

"My dialectic method is not only different from the Hegelian, but is its direct opposite. To Hegel, the life-process of the human brain, i.e. the process of thinking, which, under the name of 'the Idea,' he even transforms into an independent subject, is the demiurgos of the real world, and the real world is only the external, phenomenal form of 'the Idea.' With me, on the contrary, the ideal is nothing else than the material world reflected by the human mind, and translated into forms of thought." (Capital, Volume 1, Moscow, 1970, p. 29).

Nevertheless Marx:

"openly avowed [himself] the pupil of that mighty thinker" and even "coquetted with modes of expression peculiar to him."[32]

Marx wrote:

"The mystification which dialectic suffers in Hegel's hands, by no means prevents him from being the first to present its general form of working in a comprehensive and conscious manner. With him it is standing on its head. It must be turned right side up again, if you would discover the rational kernel within the mystical shell." [33]

In the work of Marx and Engels the dialectical approach to the study of history became intertwined with historical materialism, the school of thought exemplified by the works of Marx, Engels, and Lenin. (Marx himself never referred to "historical materialism.") A dialectical methodology came to be seen as the vital foundation for any Marxist politics, through the work of Karl Korsch, Georg Lukács and certain members of the Frankfurt School. Under Stalin, Marxist dialectics became synonymous with what was called "diamat" (short for dialectical materialism). The "diamat" was a social theory coined by 19th century philosophy Joseph Dietzgen which emphasized commodities and the effects of their exchange over time. Dietzgen used his theory sparingly to explain the nature of socialism and social development, but it was never researched academically until the Soviet Union indoctrinated the philosophy. Some Soviet academics, most notably Evald Ilyenkov, continued with unorthodox philosophical studies of the Marxist dialectic, as did a number of thinkers in the West. One of the best known North American dialectical philosophers is Bertell Ollman, Professor of Political Science at New York University.

Engels argued that all of nature is dialectical. In Anti-Dühring he contends that negation of negation is

"A very simple process which is taking place everywhere and every day, which any child can understand as soon as it is stripped of the veil of mystery in which it was enveloped by the old idealist philosophy." [34]

In Dialectics of Nature, Engels states,

"Probably the same gentlemen who up to now have decried the transformation of quantity into quality as mysticism and incomprehensible transcendentalism will now declare that it is indeed something quite self-evident, trivial, and commonplace, which they have long employed, and so they have been taught nothing new. But to have formulated for the first time in its universally valid form a general law of development of nature, society, and thought, will always remain an act of historic importance." [35]

Marxists view dialectics as a framework for development in which contradiction plays the central role as the source of development. This is perhaps best exemplified in Marx's Capital, which outlines two of his central theories: that of the theory of surplus value and the materialist conception of history. In Capital, Marx had the following to say about his dialectical methodology:

"In its rational form it is a scandal and abomination to bourgeoisdom and its doctrinaire professors, because it includes in its comprehension an affirmative recognition of the existing state of things, at the same time also, the recognition of the negation of that state, of its inevitable breaking up; because it regards every historically developed social form as in fluid movement, and therefore takes into account its transient nature not less than its momentary existence; because it lets nothing impose upon it, and is in its essence critical and revolutionary." [36]

At the heart of Marxist dialectics is the idea of contradiction, with class struggle playing the central role in social and political life. Marx and subsequent Marxists also identify other historically important contradictions, such as those between mental and manual labor and town and country. Contradiction is the key to all other categories and principles of dialectical development: development by passage of quantitative change into qualitative ones, interruption of gradualness, leaps, negation of the initial moment of development and negation of this very negation, and repetition at a higher level of some of the features and aspects of the original state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic

It seems that Eris is the ruler of Dialectics and even contradictions

btw

Karl Marx had
Eris in 14'11 Aquarius
square Sun in 13'55 Taurus
square Moon in 11'15 Taurus

in Right Ascension (equatorial longitude coordinate)
Moon sextile Eris - '35

Zane Stein's following keywords for Eris seem to be about dialectics:

contrasting different perspectives; comparing thesis and antithesis in the search for truth; contrasting opposing viewpoints to reveal each side more clearly, to seek similarities as well as differences; contrasting logical thought processes to show the limitations of logic; identifying with, or trying to understand, first principles; incongruous juxtapositions to force one to think outside of the box;

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 18, 2009 05:52 PM         

unfortunately, I'm not sure at the moment. When I had the specifics of my birth, an astrologer said my Mercury was in Scorpio. But I've lost those specifics (and the chart based on them) now, but I know I was born within a few minutes of 3 AM. And when I put in 3 AM to get my chart, it was pretty much the same, but now Mercury is:

Mercury Libra 10°10'20 in house 2 direct

Can a few minutes really make that much of a difference? Well Mercury IS a fast moving planet, and given that my sun is on the Scorpio cusp, it makes sense that Mercury pretty much was, too (at least close to my birth).