posted August 30, 2009 09:10 PM         

quote:

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Careful, though, because with that moon conjunction, especially if you have Cancer energies in your chart, this dynamic could cause a chip on your shoulder. Not paranoia exactly, but a real readiness/urgency to immediately see and call out people's BS, rather than letting them be, and taking the time to listen to them and get to know them and let what is surprising and beautiful about them unfold.

Someone with that placement could be so hooked on that "Uh-huh!! I see right through you!" moment that it compromises their compassion and makes them quick to judgement. People trot out BS for a reason--usually fear, tenderness, self-protection, insecurity, awkwardness, past hurt. That Moon-BML-Lilith conjunction could lead to a tendency to try to catch flies with vinegar instead of honey.

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*le sigh* Unfortunately that last part I bolded tends to be soooo true. I've calmed down a bit, but before I ever turned 20 I was harshly suspicious....it was ridiculous but it had alot to do with bad experiences I had in Middle School. O__o Even now, people still think I can 'vinegary' on the outside....as in very sarcastic. I wonder if thats the combination of the BML/DML/and virgoan energy at work?

I think the gift is there for a reason though, it wards off BS-ers who mistake me for someone who they can sell their BS too. You know who I'm talking about, right? Those guys who are just a little *too* charming, or those insecure women who just drain my time and energy, or the people are too damn 'perfect'.

posted August 30, 2009 10:39 PM         

"that kind of made a chill run down my back a bit, Raymond!

maybe you could elaborate "a strong lunar influence" a bit for me? because you say it's not the shadow side of the moon, but the first thing that came up to my mind when i read "a strong lunar influence" was my relationship with my bipolar mother and what effects she has had on my life. but that sounds more like the shadow side of it. "

well....I mean that the lunar perigree is supposed to be very lunar in its effects because it's based on the moon's orbit.
When Moon is at perigree, the Moon appears brighter and bigger. When Moon is at apogee, the Moon appears dimmer and smaller.

I'd look at aspects involving the Moon......I'd not only check the major planets but also Pluto's fellow transneptunians ....especially the big ones (Eris,Makemake,Haumea,Sedna,Orcus,Quaoar,Varuna,Ixion) with no more than 3 degree orbs.

dwarf planet,Ceres also could be checked too in regards to matters involving the mother and nurturing.

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”

posted August 31, 2009 01:06 AM         

Chris Evert-Lloyd
Della Reese
Burt Reynolds

Moon conjunct mean BML within 1 degree

Wilt Chamberlain
Robert Englund
Christopher Isherwood
K.D. Lang
Toni Morrison

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”

posted August 31, 2009 06:59 AM         

my Lilith cj my bf´s Moon.

that makes us very intuitive about each other´s deepest emotions.

sometimes it is scary cause it is very intense yes,but it helps us to understand each other better,when we act with our masks...it is a very instant thing/conection.

posted August 31, 2009 11:48 AM         

" Oh wow, Della Reese is also a cancer like moi.....I do see the element of the 'strong female' in her."

yeah

Tori has Moon conjunct mean BML
Della has Moon conjunct true BML

so which BML is more accurate? That's the debate that astrologers have with each other about BML.

mean BML is mean lunar apogee
true BML is osculating lunar apogee

I can totally relate to my own Sun conjunct true BML....especially with the things that my mother told me about my father and how I was with my stepfather. The Clairvision interpretation of Sun conjunct Black Moon fit me to a T. both the good and the bad.....especially the father being absent figuratively or literally, and I never knew my father. It said that the father was fought against,and that was true with me and my stepfather who I haven't seen since June 1990.

however...there are other things in my chart that could explain that too like 2 transneptunians (Ixion and Quaoar) in conjunction to my Sun. A transneptunian (Sedna) in opposition to my Sun. Even 2 transneptunians (Pluto and Orcus) aspecting my Sun in declinations. My Sun conjunct the South Heliocentric Eris Node. My Sun is conjunct the asteroid,Ariadne (abandonment issues).

Both mean BML and true BML could both be accurate.

there might be a different meanings that differentiate the mean BML from the true BML

The astronomical features could be the key

The MEAN APOGEE doesn't need any of this. It is an artifice, exactly like the "fictitious Mean Sun" used by astronomers for the measurement of time. It moves very regularly, describing a perfect circle around the earth/moon barycenter (not the earth). Its movement is actually as round and regular as the hands of a clock and it is very easy to calculate. This roundness of its motion is the main reason why I completely reject it as representative of the nocturnal and magic demoness Lilith. Roundness and steady motion belongs to the Sun. It is alien to the world of the Moon.

This is without mentioning the fact that, if one pretends this mean barycentric apogee to represent the mean empty focus of the Moon's geocentric orbit, one would have to apply a correction of +-6 degrees...

The OSCULATING APOGEE represents the shape of the lunar orbit at one specific instant of time. It is not averaged as the mean apogee, and it is already geocentric, unlike the mean apogee. Sometimes it is rejected because it doesn't seem to make any sense to have it swing as much as 30 degrees from the mean position, but I disagree at this point. It is precisely this erratic behavior what makes it the best representative --in my opinion-- of the irrational, instinctive, and primal symbolism of Lilith.

Another reason for its rejection is that it is a geometric artifice, based on the assumption that the geocentric orbit of the Moon is an ellipse. Well, it is not. The ellipse is with respect to the earth/moon barycenter. Geocentrically, as I think Kelley Hunter said once, the Moon "wiggles", deviating from elliptical motion. Therefore the image of an ellipse allegedly breaks down and the osculating apogee is only an artificial number without meaning. I don't agree with this. The osculating orbit is calculated from the lunar trajectory at a specific instant, it is by definition completely "instantaneous" and the trajectory so calculated is quite real. It doesn't matter if in the next instant this trajectory changes (sorry for this technical explanation)

... The word "true" to me, used for the osculating apogee, is correctly applied to all the other instantaneous orbital elements, like the true node. The osculating ellipse indeed exists, even though it doesn't in the long run, because it is soon replaced by another ellipse. The lunar orbit is in constant mutation, and it is this precisely what the osculating apogee measures so well.

This True Black Moon does not have the decades of astrological and interpretative elaboration that the Mean Black Moon has. It has been available only after 1992. You won't find simplistic formulas to make its interpretation easy. It requires research and willingness to try the new. It needs NOT receive the conventional meanings given to the round and astronomically featureless Mean Black Moon; but, as far as I am concerned, is the only one my mind can accept as representative of the mythical, nocturnal, primal and lunar Lilith.
http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/blackmoon/apogee.html

maybe the mean BML has a more idealistic, acceptable quality about it that's even masculine in regards to the circular motion of the movement of the mean BML like the Sun

maybe the true BML has a more of nonconformist,unpredictable quality about it that makes it more likely to be rejected and shunned.

Another thing too
if you can totally relate to the Lilith myth, there is a possibility that you have a combination of a strong lunar,Uranian,and Plutonian. Heck...I would even say Eris. The centaurs too like Juan Revilla mentioned. They are nonconformists in regards to their orbits. The female centaurs like Chariklo,Hylonome,Melanippe,Okyrhoe could probably fit especially.
Sedna and Eris are the only 2 transneptunians that are named after goddesses. Their orbits are highly eccentric,and so they are nonconformists too. Eris was known for being snubbed,rejected. Sedna was known for being victimized,oppressed. There is also something interesting to know. Sedna was not only an Inuit Sea goddess, but she was also the ruler of the Underworld. Therefore,Sedna was also Underworld Goddess and ruled over the dead. So Sedna is more than just the sea but also the dead.

National Organization for Women here in USA was formed when Sun was conjunct the Heliocentric South Eris Node in Scorpio on October 29, 1966. That's exactly 5 years before I was born too. Eris energy seems to manifest as matters of dealing with equality,advocacy, controversy.

I don't use any of the BML's because of the uncertainty of which one works.
Like I said before, the BML influences that people can relate to can be strong lunar,uranian,transneptunian,centarean energy.

I also want to point out that seeing Lilith as a demon is not a misogynist way of looking at Lilith.

after all, look at how many male demons are in mythology. There are numerous of them. Satan is the most notable of them all. I never knew that there were any female demons until I read about Lilith.

Juan Revilla made points that demons can pertain to all men and women.....like in "inner demons" Therefore, Lilith is not about demonizing women.
yesterday, we had demons that possessed us.
today, we have psychological complexes,psychiatric disorders.

of course,there are people that still believe in demonic possession.

there are people that believe that sleep paralysis is negative metaphysical entity invading us at night....like Lilith was said to come and harass men and give them wet dreams. succubi
there is also the incubi.....the male version

in Celtic Mythology, Merlin was said to be the son of a princess and an incubus.

In Vedic mythology, the lunar nodes were said to be the head and the tail of the demon that Vishnu killed. The head is Rahu (the North Lunar Node) and the tail is Ketu (the South Lunar Node)

In Persian mythology, Druj is a female demon

in Avestan Astrology....Russian astrology
the osculating lunar apogee is referred to as Druj
the mean lunar apogee is referred to as Lilith

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”

posted August 31, 2009 12:13 PM         

see....those transneptunians are no joke.

My mother has history of serious health problems (both physical and mental)

I can just stop by saying that I have the lunar t-square of Moon in Pisces in 6th square the opposition of retrograde Saturn in Gemini in 9th and Jupiter-Neptune in Sagatittarius in 3rd. Astrologers would definitely say that's the indicator for the issues that my mother have.

looking at transneptunian aspects to my Moon:
I have Moon square Saturn-Pallas-Varuna (all retro) conjunction in Gemini in 9th, Moon trine Sun-Ixion-Quaoar conjunction in Scorpio in 2nd,and Moon sextile R Sedna in Taurus in 8th

my Ceres is in 11th oppose Vertex,trine Eris in 8th,sextile Uranus in 2nd,and sextile/parallel Midheaven.

"so anyway back to BML, i guess i want to think my Sun conjunct the lunar perigree is a very positive merging of the brighter side of lunar power and the Sun power?"

exactly! That's the point that I was trying to make.

I'd rather have Sun conjunct the lunar perigree than Sun conjunct the lunar apogee (BML) because the former is the brighter side of the Moon and the latter is the darker side of the Moon.

the lunar apogee is more unconscious with it being far from the Earth. the lunar perigree is more conscious,nurturing with its close connection to the Earth.

It doesn't make sense for the lunar perigree to be referred to as Priapus,the name of some male phallic god. It takes away from the lunar symbolism.

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”

posted August 31, 2009 12:36 PM         

quote:

---

It doesn't make sense for the lunar perigree to be referred to as Priapus,the name of some male phallic god. It takes away from the lunar symbolism.

---

posted August 31, 2009 12:57 PM         

that sounds a bit strange too, but i kinda like the idea of my Sun conjunct a symbol of phallic god. mmm."

Maybe my Sun oppose lunar perigree(Priapus) means that I am at odds with men that are dicks like my stepfather that I fought against which fits with my Sun conjunct lunar apogee (Lilith)

hahahahahaha

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”

posted August 31, 2009 01:39 PM         

I am very attracted to the Lilithian types of women.

my exgf had Moon square mean black Moon Lilith 1 minute of arc. I feel that it really fits her.....especially how she told me that her mom has strong dislike for men because of her being betrayed by my exgf's father. Interestingly,her mother has Moon in Cancer square Eris in Aries with 30 minutes of arc. My exgf's Sun in Aries conjuncts her mother's Eris and squares her mother's Moon.

my exgf's combination of Moon in Scorpio conjunct Pluto in Libra and Sun trine Uranus,Uranus square Ascendant fits with the Lilith archetype.

The problem with my being attracted to Lilithian types is that they might not want a traditional relationship as in being married and having children,and that is what I want. My exgf was not like that. Her lack of nurturing love/desire for children really bothered me. Of course,her extreme attachment to her mother bothered me even more.

I also wonder if her Juno in Pisces in 12th square the conjunction of stationary Jupiter in Sagittarius and Uranus in Sagittarius in 9th is an indicator that she would be restless,too unconventional,rebellious in a marriage. I don't really put much focus on major asteroids, but I am starting to wonder if Juno is more important than I thought. I always thought Ceres was underrated.

I do believe in equality. I would never consider myself the head of the household. I would consider both my wife and myself as equal partners in everything. I wouldn't be controlling. Of course, if I was being controlled, I would rebel with a quickness.

I am no Christian nor do I follow any conventional religious/spiritual thought (never had,never will),and so there wouldn't be any traditional wedding. Being married in the interfaith unity church that I attend would be cool. I also wouldn't feel right being married to somebody who doesn't share similar religious,spiritual beliefs....especially if they are religious conservatives. I also wouldn't feel right with atheists,agnostics,and metaphysical skeptics either. Heck...I would do best with a New Age hippy type of gal or somebody that's into New Thought.

I am very liberal in general,and I am attracted to women that are also liberal. I will not do well with conservatives.
I am very attracted to women that are reserved like I am. For some reason, some people get reserved and conservative mixed up. They are not the same. That's like saying outgoing and liberal are the same. My exgirlfriend is very liberal and reserved.

that's pretty much the way Lilithian woman can be in my life.

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”

posted August 31, 2009 03:50 PM         

True BML is the h13 listed under
the hypothetical objects

Mean BML is Lilith listed under the objects that you can highlight....with the major asteroids,some transneptunians,Vertex,and Part of Fortune. That's the box right above where you enter numbers of objects to enter.

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”