posted August 30, 2009 07:25 PM         

I think it has more to do with the rising sign.

I've noticed even if people have a Fire/Airy Sun..if they have Earth rising they're more to the point.

posted August 30, 2009 08:02 PM         

I personally don't think it's bad to want honesty from people, but I do think it's bad when this honesty focuses ONLY on the negative. Having depth doesn't mean constantly being negative, and I think sometimes people get honesty and negativity confused.

Those of us who don't like small talk, superficiality, etc often don't understand this. You have to view small talk as a means to an end. People who don't know you aren't going to know that you are a completely open, honest person, and until they GET to know you they aren't going to want to have heart to hearts about their deeper innermost thoughts on life.

Furthermore, people who don't know you, if they don't see you smile or laugh or have some sort of lightheartedness about life, they are going to think that you are never happy.

Sometimes we do have to deal with people we don't like. This is just a part of life, whether it be a boss, a friend of a friend, a family member, or whatever. If you can do so respectfully, civilly and with grace (AKA being "fake"), people are going to respect you more and they will LEAVE YOU ALONE more to do your own thing. It doesn't mean you actually have to like them. If you are very different from them and don't like them, chances are good they don't like you either, but they are more likely to leave you alone if you don't get an attitude. Of course, you DO have to stand up for yourself sometimes because some people are just too much, and people will respect you for that too, if you pick your battles correctly.

I've found that, as an honest, blunt, semi-reformed cynic/loner that it is far better to focus on what little positive things are in my life than the huge negative things in the world. I can change what I focus my attention on, even if I can't change every negative thing in the world. Then I can also focus on the positive things that other people do too, and by being kind to others I win them over, instead of assuming that I deserve their attention just by being me.

posted August 30, 2009 08:04 PM         

I am a “flirt” – but I don’t think what I am doing is “flirting”. I don’t have pick up lines, but I do have “game” lol – which is just talking in my book. Some (insecure) people think that simply engaging in conversations with member of the opposite sex is flirting, it’s not! It always just looks that way to the members of the same sex…

I completely understand the job woes because I HATE HATE HATE office environments, office politics, etc. When I worked in The Corporate World I would come home every evening and scream “I hate people”, lol. I have never, ever kissed a** at any job I’ve ever had and I am the quiet, keeping to myself one in the office. I have burned lots of bridges because of it, oh well. But, I have Uranus conjunct MC in the 10th and Sun and Mercury square Uranus – I don’t take crap, I will leave before I do.

I think the depth issues have to do with: Saturn – seriousness, Uranus – doesn’t like rules or structure and Pluto – intensity and maybe Venus squares for conflicts with superficiality. Check the 8th house/Scorpio house and planets too…

quote:

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There's a fine line between not wanting to focus on superficial stuff and being completely cynical and negative about everything.

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Agreed...

Personally, I don't like the superficial talk or partying with 200 of my "closest friends" but I am an enthusiastic optimist! (That Leo Sun shines through after all!)

posted August 30, 2009 08:38 PM         

I'm just hoping that I'll gradually get there, well to there, I mean being an overtly light hearted social person, which in a sense is the complete opposite of what I prefer and am use to. I may have a Sagittarius Ascendant and Leo Sun but my sensitive Pisces Moon in the third just takes over and over thinks the feeling of "fakeness."

posted August 30, 2009 09:55 PM         

I don't mind small talk with people, I should be happy someone even wanted to waste their breath on some low life like me, so I don't complain.

I fit the "blunt bill", 8th house, heavy Pluto/Saturn influence, Earth Sun (Virgo) and Earth Asc.

Im not really blunt, Im a sugar coater by default, might be the Pisces Moon in the 3rd house and Neptune ruling my second house and residing in the 1st house.

posted August 30, 2009 11:13 PM         

As an 8th house Leo, I am really, REALLY into honesty...it is a challenge to be both kind and honest, lemme tell you. But I think it is possible to be open-hearted and genuine in ANY setting.

posted August 31, 2009 01:49 AM         

I recognize the issue, but I don't know how to guide you out of where you're at. Is it bad to be like that? Not bad, per se, but it is tough, because you're putting yourself in competition with those people, and you're likely to lose some (and possibly a lot) of those competitions.

posted August 31, 2009 05:49 AM         

There's nothing wrong with having depth, but being overly critical to the point of being overly direct (and cutting) can be quite detrimental.

posted August 31, 2009 12:28 PM         

quote:

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i feel like getting a knife and slicing my way through a person, like the Mask of Zorro, and get to know everything about them.

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Intimacy has to be freely given, not forcefully taken.

What's going on with Pluto, 8th house, Scorpio in your chart?

posted August 31, 2009 01:37 PM         

small talk IS my profession. It is exhausting sometimes.

posted September 02, 2009 12:40 AM         

It's true that sometimes you have to deal with people at a time that's inconvenient and then the smiles can be forced, but that's still a show of respect, even if not one of sincere appreciation of being in the other person's presence. They don't always share what's bothering them because frankly most others don't care and they know that, while others are private and prefer to hide such things, and realize other people have their own problems, so they should suck it up the way others also suck it up.

And in cases like biz, it may look that if you're having a hard time dealing with things, then maybe (at least at the moment) you're not a reliable person to do biz with, so best to hide it. And an establishment that depends on people coming in understand (at least the successful ones do) that people are generally more likely to go to the places that make them feel better rather than the ones run by people who are morose, steely-eyed, impatient, unwelcoming, or too prying.

As for being bad, that depends on what you want. If you want people in general to like you, or at least feel comfortable around you, then yes, it's too bad (unless you're lucky to find an odd, eclectic group to fit into). OTOH, if your goal is to become a hermit (hopefully ready for an economically deprived life--which some people can enjoy, btw), then no, it's not bad, you just gotta figure out where you got to get to (as opposed to stamping your foot and demanding people dance to your tune).

Most of my planets (and sun, ascendant, etc) are in Air & Fire, btw.

posted September 04, 2009 06:18 AM         

I don't think it's bad at all. It's subjective to who you are talking to. I have no problem with people asking me personal questions ... most people don't ask upon meeting me immediately though, but yeah it's definitely not a bad thing from my perspective. I am a very deep person myself so I can appreciate a deeper connection with a person. (Pluto, Saturn, Mars in Scorp)

I hate superficiality ... it's painful to see. I can't be superficial, I can't lie and watching others do it is just .. soo.. frustrating!

Cutting to the chase is good, but small talk is also good too in my opinion. This is different from being superficial (which is definitely "fake".. small talk isn't necessarily fake.. it's just trivial - big difference!). Small talk can go a long way to creating a rapport with people you have just met, so that you can then cut to the c**p with them later down the track
I have always had customer service jobs so I am used to this, but it is definitely a learned skill for me. I started to learn this in high school and once I started with the small talk I started to make more friends (on a deeper level). So if being a 'loner' is an issue for you.. perhaps it's something to work on. It's just another method of communicating and not a bad thing.

At work I always start off by asking how people are... a lot of the time they will respond with "good thanks how are you?". Make a little joke about how busy I am or something else related to work (some people meet you with silence, but quite a lot of people laugh) ... I talk to them one or two more occasions with lighthearted talk and sometimes that leads onto more. There are a few people I have never met at work (I work at a university, thousands of employees!) and because they have called so many times for help (or vice versa!) they have gotten to know me, and with the regulars I speak to I usually put the extra bit of effort in for etc... (though I pride myself on putting in lots of effort for everyone! heheh) so I believe there is a place for small talk in the work environment. You get used to it.. and building a rapport with people not only helps in the work place, but also makes you feel better about yourself.

It's not fake, its just a way of getting by I suppose! I am different at parties though, I find it easier to join conversations where people are talking about something I am really interested in. To make small talk ... sometimes you have to comment on the party or how do you know so and so .. etc.. again.. not superficial .. and not important.. just trivial.. but can lead onto a more in depth conversation. And not every converstaion has to be in depth - something I am still trying to learn! .. getting better as I get older. I have workd on these communication skills for years, and am fairly happy where I am now. I can sometimes go too far and babble on about crap when the other person isn't necessarily interested hehe .. but being bubbly helps ... mmm and dont get offended if you dont always get the reaction you want from people. It has to be water off a duck's back.

Just see small talk as a stepping stone to getting through on a deeper level

posted September 04, 2009 07:47 AM         

I despise small talk and superficiality. However, I realize that image matters a great deal at work and in life. I'll do the small talk and charm whoever I'm talking to, though I'd rather keep quiet. What I do is I find something positive to say that I actually mean. That way I can be both charming and truthful. Even during small talk, avoid telling lies because it can come back to bite you in the a** later on. For instance, suppose you tell your boss that you absolutely LOVE fishing because you know your boss is an avid fisherman, but in reality fishing bores you to tears.